This is a testimony of a TPM sister in the United States, who was delivered by the Lord. Her name is being kept confidential. This testimony is quite long. But trust me, it’s quite absorbing and every word is worth reading.

The inspiration to write this article comes from my experience in the TPM/NTC ministry.  My intention is not selfish but rather to warn the believers, especially girls/women who may be considering joining the TPM/NTC ministry.   I lost 12 years of my life in this ministry & it is my desire that no one else should ever go through the unnecessary mental & physical stress that I endured in this ministry.   The Bible says to  “Love Your Neighbor as Yourself” (Mark 12:31).  Therefore, I take it as my responsibility to warn others concerning the deception of the TPM ministry.

The Initiation

I joined the TPM ministry because I had a desire to serve God out of gratitude for how the Lord saved me.  I grew up in TPM and therefore, I did not know any other way to serve God but to join the TPM ministry.

The training period was intense but since I had expected the hardship as I was told by a number of people, I was able to endure it.  We were taught that we should endure all things & judge ourselves instead of others.  We were also taught that we should receive all things from the hand of God because the Lord will crush us as He crushed Jesus but it is all for our good.  It is to sanctify us and prepare us for Zion.  Because of these teachings, my brain was conditioned to not question anything but to yield myself to God’s sanctification regardless of what may happen….even if it is death. 

After the Training

After a year & a half of training, I was transferred to several local faith homes.  I was shocked to find out that there were not many ministries going on.  We had a very regimented schedule, leaving no room for the leading of the Spirit of God.  We started our day with morning praising & prayers, which was often done as a religious duty without the heart being involved & therefore, some fell asleep as they chanted in tongues and others even yawned out loud (which was a huge distraction for me as I tried to pray). Somehow we struggled to fulfil the mandatory hours of praising & prayers.  Instead of bringing life, this ritual brought death to me in my spirit as I fought hard to ignore the chanting in tongues without the balance of praying with understanding. This was worsened by the yawns & the sleepy noises made in prayer.  I’m of the opinion that if you are tired, go to sleep; instead of praying & sleeping at the same time.

After we finished our religious duty of prayer, the rest of the day was spent in eating, shopping, church meetings, or going on visits (sometimes very unproductive, depending on the minister,  it was just a social gathering in believers’ homes followed by a feast).  The TPM church has become like the nominal Catholic Church, just performing rituals. 

My Encounter with the Wolves

Apart from this, I endured great mental & physical abuse in the fake (faith) homes.  I had to walk on eggshells (restrict my words & actions to an unreasonable extent) because it looked like especially, the sister-in-charge was waiting to find a fault.  I felt no liberty to be myself in these fake homes. I could suffer these things & still serve the Lord perhaps but I was quite stumbled by the lifestyle of most of the ministers-in-charge.  I have many stories to tell but I’m choosing to select some incidents just to prove that the so-called “TPM Ministry” is made up of wolves in sheep’s clothing.  

1. The Consecrated Couple

Once I was transferred to work with a pastor & his wife.  Apparently, when they visited India, they saw how the pastors had servants to cater to their personal needs.  They came back to the USA with the idea that they could employ the same system here.   Thus they requested personal assistants & their wish was granted.  I happened to be one of the victims when I was transferred to work with them.  They rushed my transfer so that I could get there in time to be “trained” to serve them before the former sister left to her next station.  The training included how to cook their food, how to set the table, & extensive lists of things to put on the table for breakfast, lunch & dinner (the different kinds of condiments to go along with the meal).  I had to learn how to wash her clothes, iron them & put them in her closet.  I was required to clean her bathroom twice a week, to take her clothes to the dry cleaners every week & bring it back. The dry cleaning bill was a significant amount every week because she dry cleaned her outfits after she wore it just a couple of times.  Also, when the pastor & his wife travelled to conventions, they stayed in the best hotels & went to expensive restaurants.  They bought expensive things as well.  It’s outrageous how lavishly they lived! 

All of my physical labours would have been worthwhile if they were actually serving the Lord.  The pastor did some counselling & prayer in my understanding but the wife spent the whole day looking at store catalogues & ordering items over the phone.  She had many shoes, clothes, stationery items, sheets, bathroom rugs, towels, etc. & she ordered more.  Additionally, she was always shopping for her daughter & granddaughter.  Her phone conversations were mainly with her children & grandchildren & a select few favourite believers who did favours for her.  I barely saw her doing productive ministry work & as her helper, I was doing all the useless running around to fulfil her personal agenda.

A day in my life working with the pastor & his wife: My day started at 5:30 am.  I made coffee for them and set it on the table next to them when they came for morning praising.  At 7 am, morning praising finished and it was time for breakfast.  Breakfast preparation & clean-up lasted till 8:30 am & we had our dead ritual of morning prayer till 10:30 am.  Immediately after the prayer, we prepared a grand lunch meal.  Myself & another sister had to cook a fresh meal every day because they did not eat leftovers.  Lunch & clean-up was usually finished by 3 pm; after which the pastor’s wife gave me various errands to run either to go to the dry cleaners, grocery shopping, bank, etc. 

On several occasions, the pastor’s wife & I went to the mall to shop for her daughter, who is married & settled in another state. For some reason, she felt the need to frequently purchase gifts for her daughter & granddaughter; for which we spend much time running around in the mall and money to not only purchase the gift but to mail it to them.  Mind you, we are “consecrated” servants of God, who have supposedly given up our families to serve the Lord without distraction.  It didn’t take me very long to understand that these rules only applied to the junior ministers.  The seniors can do whatever they pleased & you dare not question them….even if you’re the one running around in circles to serve their agenda! 

Just to prove the hypocrisy…once my parents called & asked me to give them a set time to come & visit me (I had not seen them the whole year).  I mentioned it to the pastor’s wife & asked her what the best time would be.  Without missing a beat, she snapped back at me, “I thought you are consecrated.  Why are your parents coming to see you?!”  Imagine my disbelief!  This lady who frequently shops for her daughter & granddaughter and fully preoccupied with keeping in touch with them on a daily basis, how could she say anything to me about consecration?!!!  I was shocked beyond comprehension and so sad that I just had to walk away to my bedroom to calm myself down.

After all the running around, in the evening, I had to see to the soup & snack and/or visits, meetings, etc.  I went to my room at 12 am on a daily basis & even then, I could not go to sleep because the pastor’s wife’s clothes would be waiting for me to iron & put away.  I barely got 5 hours of sleep every day.  I had to jump up at 5:30 am to make coffee before the morning praising started.  

I kept this schedule until I became weary & developed spine problems from keeping 18-hour shifts on a daily basis for a whole year.  At this point, I informed the headquarters of my ill health.  Along with this, I reported all the hypocrisies & the lavish lifestyle of the pastor & his wife, but there were no answers.  Instead, I was transferred to the next place, and let’s just say….I went from the frying pan to the fire!

2. The Terrorist

In the next place, I was sent to work with a known terrorist in the NTC ministry (although I didn’t know at the time).  Initially, she sweet-talked me to bring me under her control.  I was innocent & so I didn’t realize what I was in for.  I was transferred there with the understanding that since it’s a smaller church, I would be able to recover physically.  However, that’s not what happened. 

Apart from keeping the daily schedule of cooking, cleaning, prayers, etc, this lady made me take apart the whole house  & the church to arrange it exactly how she wanted it. I literally had to take everything out of the shelves/cabinets & dust & rearrange everything from top to bottom.  Washed & scrubbed everything to the most unreasonable detail.  Mind you, I was physically exhausted from the very beginning and whenever I expressed to her that I was tired, she told me to go take a nap for 15 mins & come right back.  Due to the exhaustion, if I was late for a few mins, she would ask me why I was late.   She micromanaged my time & work.  Eventually, my body gave out & I became bedridden.  The first day when I wasn’t able to get out of bed, she came to my room & I thought she is going to pray for me; but instead, she told me that something’s not right in my life & that’s why I was sick.  I was exhausted both mentally & physically & didn’t know what to think of everything she told me.  In those days, I esteemed these older sisters as true servants of God & when she told me that there is sin in my life, I almost believed it.  I thought God was mad at me for some reason & therefore, I didn’t have the “grace” to obey my “elders” (as brainwashed as I was).  Now I know differently.  The only cause for my exhaustion was overwork!

I informed the headquarters regarding my sickness & how I was being persecuted in my current fake home. My concerns fell into deaf ears because the head sister sided with the local sister-in-charge (I noticed through several experiences that they never admit their mistakes in leadership to maintain the authoritarian system).  Many years later, I found out that the local sister-in-charge was known to be a terrorist in every fake home she worked in.  She persecuted many victims like me but yet the head sister, knowing this terrorist, did not side with me. To this day (7 years later), she is the sister-in-charge in the same place & many victims after I have come & gone, having suffered greatly under her, but she still rules supremely in the same place as “sister-in-charge”!

Back to my story,  I was bedridden (mostly due to depression) but because of her persuasions, I slowly got up & started to cook & clean as normal with difficulty.  As she saw my struggle, instead of having compassion like a normal person, she started persecuting me with words.  When we sat down for prayer, she shouted out loud, “Lord, cast out the sinners in Zion!  Lord, cast out all slothfulness from this house!”  She did this relentlessly for months with a demonic anointing.  A normal person would get tired of shouting & screaming such things in prayer.  Only a demon could give her such strength!  

As for me, I would only be able to endure such abuse for a few days, and then I would be bedridden again.  This continued for 4 months & I had no choice but to call headquarters again.  This time I humbled myself to the ground & apologized to the head sister for any shortcomings on my part & to please take me out from there.  At the time, I felt I would lose my salvation if I left the ministry!

3. The Mental Case

The next transfer was with an old sister who had mental problems but because of her seniority in the ministry, she was the “sister-in-charge”.  No one told me about her mental problems.  Over time, I noticed her indecisiveness, timidity, and confusion.  Being the “sister-in-charge”, the rule was to submit to her but I couldn’t figure out how!  Her thought processes did not make any sense to me.  I struggled & often felt frustrated as I felt forced to submit to stupid commands. 

Later on, I found out that her condition is known among the ministers but somehow the headquarters still kept her as the “sister-in-charge”!  Her mental condition affected the church because the messages/exhortations that she shared spoke condemnation & discouragement to the church.  God was portrayed in the wrong light as the consuming fire without the correct balance of the love of God.  This caused many young people to backslide & the parents were clueless as to why their children left God!  Even though I knew her true condition, there was nothing I could say or do to convince anyone of the wrong message that was conveyed in the church since everyone blindly believed her!

I somehow struggled through the next two years until the next “sister-in-charge” came. 

4. The Gossiper

The next one brought new challenges with her.  She loved to cook.  Every day as a ritual, after morning praising, she spent 10 mins reading the bible & then she went out on a walk & visited the nearby grocery store & bought different items for cooking after morning prayer. She was a great cook.  After cooking & lunch, she left all the dishes & clean-up for me.  I was happy to do it because I thought I was helping her with her “ministry” since in the afternoons she would either rest or speak on the phone.  I presumed that she was talking with believers & counselling them(later on I found out she was a gossiper.  She was not speaking with her local believers but with other believers & ministers who had the same spirit of gossip). 

Not only on a daily basis but she took on the big project of cooking for the church on different occasions.  She kept me busy with unnecessary things like baking apple pies when good quality pies can easily be bought at the store for a very reasonable price.  All our time was spent in cooking & cleaning.   I felt so dissatisfied in my spirit since I thought I had signed up for “ministry” – to do productive work to further the gospel but instead here I was forced to bake pies!  Since we were trained to submit & not question anything, I went with the flow. 

From the House of Bondage to the Liberty of Christ

I took all things as a lesson in humility; to learn to be a servant.  So, I stood beside her to help her; but she did not have the same sincerity towards me.  I realized this in times when I got sick as she overworked me.  When I was tired & in pain after having helped her, she would tell me that I don’t have sufficient grace to keep up with her (By the way, she only cooked; I chopped, cleaned, & did all the transferring & storing food).  With a good conscience, I can truly say that I went above & beyond my strength to help her but it was never enough.  She liked me only when I was able to carry out her agenda. On rare occasions, when I got sick & unable to help her with her projects, I was condemned to being no good.   I was shocked to realize the selfishness in the so-called “servants of God” whom the believers worship as Gods!  I would have never known the true character of these people if I hadn’t joined the ministry! 

5. Again, the Same Mental Case 

After two years of slave labour, I was transferred to another place to work again with the old sister who has mental problems.  She got transferred after one year & the sister who likes to cook came to take her place & so I had to go through the whole ordeal again!…but this time I felt incredibly frustrated because, by this time, I’d been in the ministry for 12 years & still I was learning to be a servant (this seemed to be an endless lesson).  I had to ask myself, “Am I going to be baking pies all my life when souls are in need?”  There are so many believers & unsaved souls in the world who need prayer & counselling for deliverance from various bondages.  Jesus said, “Harvest truly is plenteous but the labourers are few”(Matt 9:37).  We, full-time servants of God, are not supposed to sit in our fake homes & bake pies & enjoy our hobbies all our lives!  I understand that there is a training period where we need to do menial work to learn to be a servant but is that supposed to last 12 years?!   My heart used to ache to look at souls who need our help in prayer but I couldn’t do anything to encourage or help because I was always under a so-called “sister-in-charge”, who was supposed to take a burden to minister to souls but she chose to enjoy her cooking hobbies instead!  Like this, the Lord began to open my eyes to recognize many truths!

Sparks of Truth

The Phone Bill

One day I happened to see the phone bill.  I was shocked to see the activity of both the brother-in-charge & the sister-in-charge.  Both of them spent all their time chatting with their buddies & the whole time I thought they were “ministering” on the phone.  I saw phone numbers of other ministers, who are known to be gossipers.  The phone numbers were the same every single day and the calls lasted for 40 mins to an hour or at a time. The sister-in-charge always gossiped to me & so I knew for sure that her conversations with the other ministers are far from “spiritual”.  

My heart was broken into a thousand pieces to realize that I’ve been pouring out my life to support people who didn’t want to serve the Lord.  That’s when I asked myself, “Who am I serving?”  These people were only about their agenda.  I felt so sad especially because  I was so worn out mentally & physically but was still trying to keep up with all the cooking, cleaning, paperwork, etc.  I was the one basically keeping the faith home running, while the other two gossiped on the phone.  On several occasions, in conversations with the sister-in-charge, I expressed my burden for the church members & how they need counselling & prayer but she was very apathetic.  She told me that she’s seen for years that people don’t change & therefore there is no use trying to help.  I felt so sad that there was no faith or effort put towards helping people.  In my heart, I knew that she didn’t want to help souls because she did not like to labour in the word of God & prayer; she’d rather cook & gossip!  

In conversation, several times she spoke about workers who left TPM & how they lost “Zion”!  In my mind, I was baffled to see how shallow her understanding was even though she was in the ministry for 30 years!  She felt that just because she was sitting under the roof of TPM, she was guaranteed, Zion. What a deception!

Pleasure loving workers of Satan

Also, in conversation, she spoke critically of another old sister (in her 60s)who worked under her.  Because she joined the ministry recently, she worked as a junior sister.  The sister (who likes to cook) accused this old sister of not helping her enough.  Especially, she brought up the fact that she wouldn’t run down the stairs to answer the doorbell.  She felt that since this old sister was the junior sister, she must do the running, in spite of her weak leg!  From this conversation, I realized that the TPM system of Seniors & Juniors has totally wiped out any sort of common sense such as basic kindness towards your co-worker, respect for age, etc. and is causing one to be self-centred to uphold the position.  I realized that I was not the only one being mistreated but other sisters were suffering such injustice!  In the way that she treated me & other ministers, I saw that the character of Jesus was not formed in her even after 30 years in ministry!  Yet she was expecting Zion!  I don’t know if I want to laugh or cry.  What a joke!

In general, this is how most of the TPM fake homes run.  I did not make my decision to leave TPM based on bad experiences with a few people in this ministry.  Before I made the decision to break my life-time commitment to the TPM ministry, I went through the list of senior sisters who may potentially be a good co-worker if I were to stay; and I found that 95 % of them were, wolves in sheep’s clothing.  In my 12 years of interaction with most of these sisters, I realized they are mostly self-centred & under the pressure of the system to maintain their position as the “sister-in-charge”.  They tried to teach me the same things.  If they saw that the believers approached me with questions, they accused me of being too nice.  In their opinion, I should become as unapproachable as them so that no one would dare to come & ask me a question! I realized that this ministry is more about maintaining power than genuinely addressing believers’ needs, concerns, questions, comments, etc.

Once when I told one of the pastors that I listen to Ravi Zacharias’ teaching on apologetics, his response was that I should not listen to Ravi because Ravi is not spirit-baptized & therefore, TPM doctrines are better.  The same pastor is known to be a lazy, gluttonous pastor, who is slow to deal with the problems of the believers of his local congregation.  So much for his high & lofty doctrines!  For those TPM zealots, compare this pastor with Ravi Zacharias (a man who travels more than 200 days in a year & reaches multitudes of people with the gospel)!  The TPM pastors cannot even reach their local congregation with the true gospel!  This happens because the TPM system hinders one to understand the true gospel!   

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

2 Tim 3:1-5

The TPM System is a complete package that manufactures ALL of the above end-time evil products mentioned in the above verse. It’s beyond any comprehension.

Overall in my 12 years of observing the activities in this ministry, I saw that there was not much counselling done by the so-called “ministers-in-charge”.  Apart from the regular schedule of prayer, most of them did not contribute to the ministry in any significant way according to my observation.  Some of the ministers who may be sincere are bound by the many laws of TPM & therefore, it’s impossible to minister according to the burden of their heart.  There are many prisoners who need to be set free to serve Jesus according to their gifts & talents.  

After the Exit

After coming out from TPM, I am so excited to see so many pastors & ministers who use their talents to their full potential and they serve God with great passion!  They preach the Rhema word of God (not chanting from doctrine books).  They labour in the word of God by writing books in their spare time.  There is counselling available in the churches.  Some pastors even work a full-time secular job & and the rest of the time, they preach the gospel, visit the sick, & minister deliverance to all in need.  Coming from the TPM ministry, I am a true witness that these pastors are more dedicated to the work of the Lord than TPM full-time consecrated servants of God, who live on people’s monetary tithes!  

These pastors not only minister the word of God but make disciples by allowing the members of their congregation to preach, teach, exhort, and encourage them to use their talents for the glory of God.  I was told all my life that TPM is the best church with the best doctrines!  However, Jesus said, You shall know them by their fruits.  The TPM believers are not made disciples.  Most of them are afraid to use their talents.  If we don’t recognize the deception of the TPM clergy, we will end up like the servant who hid the one talent in the ground.  When the master came, he was punished because the talent was meant to be used & multiplied! (Matt 25:14-30)

Also, I must include how I was treated whenever I was sick from overwork just to expose the hypocrisy of these zion-bound SOG.  The local sisters-in-charge would force me to follow their agenda regardless of my health.  They never spoke a word of encouragement but rather condemned me that I didn’t have enough “grace of God”.  They left me alone to fight my sickness (which is okay but I wish they wouldn’t have said things to discourage me).  At times, when I had a migraine headache & couldn’t even open my eyes, they would call me to come & work in this state.  I was not the only one who endured such cruel treatment.  There are other junior sisters who’ve told me of the persecution that they went through in their fake homes because they were sick.  One sister (who had a very serious illness) told me of how the pastor in her fake home spoke very harshly to her on a daily basis.  He told her that since she could not receive healing from the Lord to attend all the praising & prayers, she will not make it to heaven.  His statements caused the sister to go into depression & even become suicidal. The irony is that when chief pastor Stephen was sick, this pastor rushed to see him & sat with him & ministered to him in prayer.  He scolded the pastors’ care sisters for not taking care of him & made a big issue that the pastor was sick because the sisters were not careful with the diet!  If his love & care was so genuine, what about the junior sister in his own house?!  As he did to one of the least ones, he did it unto the Lord!  This shows the hypocrisy of these fake zealots! 

Although everyone joins the ministry to sincerely serve the Lord, the pressures of the TPM system causes people to evolve into wolves. Part of the reason why it happens is that the regimented schedule keeps us so busy that we are focused on keeping the schedule & don’t get quality time to spend in personal devotion.  Additionally, we were discouraged from using the internet & listening to non-TPM preachers.  We lose our ability to think clearly because of all the brain-washing done in the so-called praising, prayers, workers’ meetings, etc.   It was happening to me.  Thank God I was able to recognize it & come out of it!  I wish the same for everyone who is still trapped in this system!  

God allows heresies in churches to prove sincere from the insincere. 

“For there must also be heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.”

1 CORINTHIANS 11:19

If your heart is sincere with the Lord, you will discern the good from the bad & choose the good. Jesus said, “You shall know them by their fruits” (Matthew 7:20).  It is our responsibility to discern! 

I’m so glad that the Lord brought me out from this demonic system!  It was not easy to come out.  There were so many voices in the form of prophecies & sermons about the damnation that awaits those who leave.  I thank God for giving me the boldness to ignore these voices and depend on the truth of God’s word alone.  Jesus did not go with the flow of the Jewish system of His time but stood against it & spoke up against it fearlessly.  In fact, Jesus used very rude words to expose their hypocrisy as they were blind guides that led many astray.  So I encourage all the TPM believers to stand with Jesus.  Let go of your vain traditions & the seemingly great heritage that you think you have.  Search the word of God for truth & the truth will set you free!  It is our responsibility to search the truth & not just believe what we hear.  Read 1 Kings 13: God held the man of God responsible to discern the voice of God for himself & thus, judged him because he took heed instead to the voice of an old prophet.  God holds us responsible to make a diligent search for the truth!

One of the fears of TPM believers is that they will never find another church family.  This is a lie!  

When I came out of TPM, I was in a similar confused state.  I cried out to the Lord to lead me to the right place.  Soon after I prayed, amazing doors began to open.  Friends & loved ones began to recommend churches to my family.  We were amazed to find several good churches based on God’s word, who are active in their community to share the gospel & have wonderful prayer lives, more than what I’ve seen in TPM!  These pastors are humble & dedicated to God’s work definitely more than what I’ve seen in TPM!   I’m relieved that I no longer have to spend the rest of my life baking pies!  I am free to serve the Lord!  I have the liberty to share the gospel & be productive in the work of God!  Hallelujah!  God’s truth has set me free! 

God has restored my joy of salvation & a burden for souls that I had almost lost when I was in TPM (being held in shackles, not having the liberty to minister according to the burden of my heart).  God provided all things necessary for life & godliness, beyond my imagination! None of those curses in the form of prophecies/sermons came to pass!

Conclusion

My words may not be enough to convince anyone but I plead with all the readers to please examine where you are & be willing to make changes if you are not in the truth. Zion is not the goal, Jesus is the goal!

Jesus commended the church in Ephesus,

“ 2I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: 3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name’s sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.”

Rev 2:2-3

If you stand with Jesus & come away from the false apostles to serve God in truth, you will surely hear God’s voice “Well done, thou good & faithful servant!  Enter thou into the joy of the Lord!”  The choice is yours!

“Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman who needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

2 Tim 2:15

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149 COMMENTS

  1. Praise God for delivering you from this cult. Thank you for sharing your testimony and hope it will encourage others in similar situations to take the bold step to get out of this satanic mission.

    It is very depressing reading about the experiences you had to undergo under the tyrants in NTC. The secular world treats its staff with more dignity than these servants of god. Hope the youth who are thinking of joining this cult will think twice after reading this testimony.

    I have shared this testimony with a few NTC believers in the US who always boast that these atrocities happen only in TPM in India, hope it will change their opinion.

    May God bless you and use you for His Glory the rest of your days.

    Thank you fromtpm.com for providing the platform to share this kind of information.

    • Please tell those NTC believers that I’ve only written a fraction of what I actually went through. There are sisters like me who are held captive. If you ask them, they will deny it because they think God is allowing persecution for their sanctification. I used to be one among them who put on a happy face before the believers. That’s why most of the believers were shocked when they found out that I left. I believed exactly like those other sisters but I was enlightened when I saw the phone bill right before my own eyes. That’s when I started questioning & reflecting on my past experiences. I didn’t mean to deceive the believers by putting on a good front. I was sincerely brainwashed until God opened my eyes. Be aware that there are other sisters in there who are like me. My heart hurts for them. I’ve spoken to some of them but they can’t come out because they don’t have a place to go to. Their families are brainwashed TPM believers & cannot bear the shame of their children leaving this glorious ministry(what a joke)! Some of them are severely ill but they’ve just surrendered themselves to be martyrs to the TPM cause! If the TPM believers wake up, this system cannot survive. It’s the believers’ monetary tithes that’s keeping this organization standing & killing innocent victims! I’m still suffering from serious physical afflictions inflicted on me by this organization & to know that there has been no fruit for all my sufferings, makes it all the more difficult to bear!

      • Praise God that u somehow got out of this cult, but I have one doubt sister, these tpm ministers in India won’t marry,right? Then how come you are saying in your testimony that you served to pastor’s wife ? And she used to do all the shopping for her daughter and grand children? Are the rules different in different countries ?

        • Monsters come in all forms and sizes. They do things at their convenience.
          In the US, they take in married couples as ministers(Though it’s rare). But in India, this Monster has a different face. They pride themselves on their celibate minister.
          In India, they insist on a white dress and the uniform of Veshti… But in the US they have a totally different Western Wear of Formal Suites…
          They can change their doctrines and practices according to the circumstances..Very deceptive are they.

        • This question was answered by “Amazed by Grace” further down in the comments. Here’s what he/she said, “I would like to answer the question of marriage in NTC (US TPM). Workers are highly discouraged from getting marriage and if they do marry, it’s to a believer. I recall 2 who married (one of them came to live in the FH when she was 12 and was considered a special case). The couples lived outside of the FH until their spouse was considered for and taken into ministry. Until that time, they were considered believers and not permitted to take part in any public ministry. After both were received back into ministry, they were treated as a tier below the workers. This was all during Pastor Don’s time–he reluctantly allowed marriage but it was rare and discouraged. Since Pas TU, they tightened the reigns and it is discouraged even more.
          Secondly, any couples who join the ministry are required to live as “brother and sister.” They live in separate rooms in the same house. The children remain in the same FH as the parents, but endure the confusion of having several authority figures over them and not enough of their parents’ love and attention.
          All in all, it’s highly unhealthy and just a western version of the same anti-marriage, anti-family policies of TPM.”
          I would also like to add that Pas. Don, being a white man, had a voice with the Indian chiefs and that’s why we see variations in teachings between India & US. However, Pas Don could not fully impose his views because of being under the Indian chiefs and having to please the TPM system. Pas Don fully believed that what God has joined together, let no man separate. Therefore, he, personally, never laid any commandments for married couples to live as singles. But the way that the TPM system is set up to glorify their “consecrated, single servants of God”, it was implied that married couples should adhere to the same standards to stand on Mount Zion with the lamb. So almost all of the married couples choose to live like virgins after they are taken into this cult ministry; otherwise, they will be looked down on for not meeting the standards of “virginity” as one of the requirements to stand on Mt. Zion.

  2. 🙂 Redeemed indeed…all Glory to God who hears his people and delivers them from the evil one…..
    Psalm 91:15 (ASV) He shall call upon me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble: I will deliver him, and honor him.

  3. Thank God for you deliverence. I too was a victim of circumstance. An ex faithome child. I left then almost fifty five years ago. Having seen and suffered
    MANY cruelties, I csn empathise with you.

    I hope may read your testimony, and find deliverence, and freedom in Christ.

    God bless.

  4. @ Testimony Sister
    // in the ministry for 12 years & still I was learning to be a servant //

    //I felt so dissatisfied in my spirit since I thought I had signed up for “ministry” – to do productive work to further the gospel but instead here I was forced to bake pies! //

    Hello backslider victim sister ,

    Do you know our late chief pastor Wilson remained 23 year in one room only. No transfer, no visiting. He would preach on Sunday and from meeting hall he would come to his room. 23 years he only eating food all week & sleeping. No ministry given to him for 23 years. Other independent pastor in his place work so much hard in 23 years , saving million souls, but they not made Chief Pastor. They not given glory. They not go Zion.

    Tpm ministry very difficult ministry. It is not for all public. It only for humble people who not use their common sense.

    I have my own sister in glorious ministry. She not preach gospel to single man in her 40 years ministry. She serving saints for 40 year. She only repeat tpm doctrine to our believers. She not backslide like you and doing going village village to preach gospel to unsaved gentile by her own independent will. I will tell her to remain like this for 40 more year without saving a single soul. I have faith she will become international chief mother one day.

    If she suffer for saints, she will reign as chief mother over saints (2 Tim 2:12)

    I teach you all these things. I Elina the greatest beliver of tpm. I not use brain.

    • @Elina
      I am very happy to see the last line in your comment that we the TPM folk dont use any part of brain😂😂 also i encourage all the brethren to understand the hidden sarcasm in the comments of Elina

    • International cheif mother wowwwww, I wish she must live for another 400 years doing nothing and eventually end up in Zion pushing Christ Jesus away

  5. //None of those curses in the form of prophecies/sermons came to pass!//
    Yes, the prophecies are not from God, how will it be fulfilled?
    Few months back I happened to meet a Pastor from Chennai NLAG. He was a TPM brother for 14 years. His youthful days were spent on working for TPM wolves. One of his relative sister was also serving in TPM and she was killed by divine healing, which made him leave TPM. Now he’s blessed with a family and serves the God of the Bible.
    So do not be afraid of those threatening prophecies and curses. TPM has survived thus far by imparting FEAR among believers.

    • If these curses are to be affected in any way, it has to affect the Admin, first. I know that many of these guys are just cursing me not knowing who I am. Jokers !!!
      While they curse, may you bless; may those who attack me be put to shame, but may your servant rejoice. Psalm 109:28

      How can I curse those whom God has not cursed? How can I denounce those whom the LORD has not denounced? Numbers 23:8

      I have received a command to bless; he has blessed, and I cannot change it. Numbers 23:20

      • Then tell us who you are. whats yr story? how come you left the truth and fight against it now? are you hiding something? what are you hiding behind all these articles?

        • I had asked you a question in my previous response, but you are yet to reply. Instead, you have chosen to send me your bla..bla..blas..That is straight away going to the trash.
          Now if you are too eager to know who am I, why don’t you do this thing.
          Go to those white-clad prophets in your cult who claims to be having the anointing of Zion. Let those prophets identify me? Is it too hard for those people who prophesy dime a dozen? You do not have to really beg an plead in this forum.

          For the Lord God does nothing without revealing his secret to his servants the prophets. Amos 3:7

        • @Godhelpus:
          //Then tell us who you are. whats yr story?//
          Why do you want to know that? Is it to deploy a hit-man as your curses are not effective on him?

          //how come you left the truth and fight against it now?//
          If you read the articles on this site, you will understand why he left what you think as the ‘truth’ and is waging war against it.

          //what are you hiding behind all these articles?//
          All the articles on this site are very straight forward with enough scriptural backup. All are easy reads to any average Christian in search of truth. None of them are Deeper Divine Truths (DDT) akin to your church’s doctrines that require the help of eunuchs to reveal what is hidden in them. If you still think these articles are hiding something, only God can help you.

        • @Godhelpus

          It looks like you are getting really worried about your future. From your queries it is obvious that you are very uncomfortable with fromtpm.com for peeling away the fig leaves off your beloved harlot – TPM.

          Are you feeling the heat or chill as her nakedness is being exposed to the whole world?

          How can you ask someone’s identity when you yourself are scared of revealing yourself? I don’t know why you should use a silly name like “godhelpus” when you have nothing to fear. You are in the best church in the world and you will be protected by your chief pastors even if you murder, fornicate, rape, enslave or abuse innocent folks, so why fear?

          So please, before asking stupid questions, think twice. If I were you, I would be giving my name, designation, branch faith home and contact number before asking someone else to reveal their identity.

          Now coming to your other queries – whats yr story?

          The admin has written 400+ articles telling his story, why don’t you tell us yours. Maybe if there is something edifying in it or is it a pack of lies like the deeper doctrines of TPM.

          how come you left the truth?

          Can you please explain what is the truth according to TPM? It is once again a lie which originated from the pits of hell and you are deceived. If not, please tell us the truth according to TPM so that all the readers and the admin can repent and get back into the best church on the planet.

          and fight against it now?

          I don’t see the admin anywhere with a sword looking for a fight. All fromtpm.com is doing is fighting the lies of TPM and if this is wrong, please explain why it is so. He is definitely wielding the Sword of The Word of God and it is obvious that fromtpm.com’s articles are making mincemeat of the lies of TPM.

          are you hiding something?

          This is a stupid question because after 400+ articles and you are asking if he is hiding anything.

          what are you hiding behind all these articles?

          Well, I should applaud you for this most pertinent question you have asked. Yes, he is hiding something which you can only find if you are sincerely seeking The Truth. Hope you will find it my friend and then truly God will help you. Till then, the only hope you have is TPM but unfortunately it is not built on The Rock, so you are on sinking sand.

          Wake up Sir, from your slumber and repent and seek the God of the Bible instead of being fooled and fooling poor people in The Name of Christ. May God help you!

  6. @Escort Elina

    Yeah you are rite, so why dont u walk the talk..Join the tpm full time and let us know your experiences as the junior sista. That would be a great testimony for the “backslidden sisters”.. go ahead.. Do it.. join full time.. 😀

  7. @ Escort Hannibal
    I already serving saints. They make me wash clothes and iron it daily.

    I also help Akka in making different fruit shakes. We make mango juice, orange juice, lemon juice also for immunity strength of Pastor. Sometime i drink little mango juice when no one watching me. It taste very holy because it is made for pastor.

    Morning i wake up and bring 10 litres milk for center faith home with akka. Our hand pain lifting so many liter of milk.

    I go to Zion. You remain escorting fromtpm.

  8. @Escort Elina

    Ah you are lying.. you re lazy and i dnt believe you are a saints slut oh sorry saints favorite child 😁.

    So Please sign up full time, also i m hoping your service charges are not affected by this lock down & You’re being paid on time. 🤣😂😁😁…

    • @ escort Hannibal
      // You are lying…//

      No brother.. our church saints never lie….not even to government about how much money comes to church.. many elder brother not lie to center pastor how much tithe come each month…many sister not lie to incharge elder, how much money believers donate them on visiting… They openly tell this much money is I am keeping under my bed..hiding in pillow…tpm worker very transparent about money….

      ..

  9. For the kingdom of TPM can be likened to a circus, where the performers behave very lovingly with each other and the animals in front of the spectators.
    While the show lasts it is fun with lots of singing, vibration and acrobats. People clap and appreciate the performers.
    But behind the scenes it is fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, covetousness, anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication etc.
    But alas all the spectators wanted was just the show and didn’t care for what was happening behind the curtains. They were more than happy to pay the money and get entertained.

    When we come to think of it, Pure love to God and fellow beings can be a great differentiator

    But like it is mentioned in 1st John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected : hereby know we that we are in him.
    So it is very clear, Love of God is not perfected as a consequence of that those who do not keep his word.
    Another example of not having the Love of God perfected in us is in 1st John 2:11 Where John states that … But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
    Also to those who pretend to love he writes in 1st John 3:18 saying My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue ; but in deed and in truth.
    Finally in 1st John 4: 7 & 8 le clearly states, Beloved, let us love one another : for love is of God ; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not, knoweth not God ; for God is love.
    1st John 5 : 20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar : for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen ?
    As per Romans 5:5 love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
    WITH THE REAL HOLY GHOST IN YOU, ONE CANNOT PRETEND or FEIGN LOVE. BUT WHEN THE COUNTERFIET OF HOLY GHOST IS IN CONTROL THEN ITS CIRCUS.

    So this beautiful testimony by the Sister where I did not see one iota of love by any one, is a clear testimony of how counterfeit TPM is.
    Thank you Admin for putting it together. Hope this testimony will encourage few more sheeps to take their decisions to PART WAYS FROM THE COUNTERFEIT.

    • //For the kingdom of TPM can be likened to a circus, … … //

      You have so well captured the TPM ambiance. I recollect my wife telling me years back, when we were driving home after a center convention, that the whole experience felt like a circus to her. The high decibel noise, the chaotic movement of people, the frenzied activities all around, etc., etc. felt so unreal, she questioned me if God was present amidst all of this?

      When I was in this cult, I played the keyboard in one of the center fake homes in Tamil Nadu. Once, pastor Victor Mohan (he was an elder at that time) asked me to softly play the keyboard towards the end of his sermon and gradually increase the tempo, apparently to create an euphoria and lead the congregants into a cloud of exhilaration. I could not really bring me to do this, as I felt the whole experience so artificial void of any real spiritual value. Only now I understand that this was an effort to create a circus like atmosphere to the spectators. These scumbags are really circus clowns!

  10. I really pity you sister. Same happened to me. You will hear soon that cpm white clad’s were beaten in public and put to shame. It is very painful to read your testimony. May God heal all your wounds physically and mentally. We shall meet in the rainbow gate in the other shore one day. Till then continue the good works.

  11. it’s sad to hear that this sister in tpm ministry had to tolerate for 12 long years before realizing that her time was up to free herself from this bondage. “If the Son sets you free, you are free indeed!” (John 8:36) The people in this cult are in under extreme bounds & admin’s work is more than ever needed. it’s bearing fruit since this year started. either tpm reforms & repent from their doctrinal errors or it will be dismantled systematically in time, don’t underestimate the power of the pen & the truth of the gospel.

  12. @”If your heart is sincere with the Lord, you will discern the good from the bad & choose the good. Jesus said, “You shall know them by their fruits” (Matthew 7:20). It is our responsibility to discern!”

    A very hard hitting, a true narration of a horrible fake home life from the run away slave like sister of 12 years of lockdown.
    This is a brave testimony straight away pointing to the other heavy laden worker sisters of many f.h s especially located in South East Asian regions.
    It looked as though Psalm 124:7 has finally dawned on her to redeem her from the bondage of this BEAST. Hallellujah!

    What a great FREEDOM achieved at the end, the 7 th verse. says ..”We have escaped as a bird from the snare of the fowlers:the snare is broken and we have escaped”

    The moment I looked at the backdrop photo on this EPISODE,I could easily recognize it as the NewJercy centre F.H located at yellow street in NEWARK.I recall in my memory that facing to this cenre f.h ,there was a liquor shop at the opposite side of the road !
    I spent the time with the late pas Thomas who was looking after the printing press activity of PILGRIMS JOURNAL .
    As was reading this sister’s testimony that she was getting transfers to different F.Hs, her narration was taking me to my nostalgic memories of that late pas.Don Spiers time ,specially that he could arrange me quick visits to those F.Hs (BROOKYN,YONKERS,STATEN ISLAND & AMITYVILLE areas).Those were the bondage years of my faith life that God enabled me to fly across to this continent just to have a watchful eye on the -CULT activities, the period was somewhere in the vicinity of 9/11 period.
    (I purposely withhold the exact year of my visit to NEWARK centre f.h plus to the OHIO convention where I gave my TESTIMONY, since it is irrelevant anyway -but the content is of topical interest).
    In those days, getting VISA to US was prohibited,but however God had other ideas on me that I could venture on a MOSSAD kind of job,that I easily sail through the VISA interview process at Royapet(TN)–that U.S embassy cleared my VISA to visit even as I was holding my mundane job in India.

    I am highly thankful to my Lord for the unmerited love shown to me to maintain a la David-Jonathan fellowship with these TPM clergy in those years of bondage that I spent with this CULT.Instead of regretting some times I felt like it was an EXPERIENCE that I had to endure in my faith life,it was like a stepping stone of success in my later part of my life.
    In all my later pilgrimage journeys that I made to the many F.H located in various continents of the globe,God’s unseen hand was definitely guiding me.I must confess before my brethren.
    I pray and wish many more worker sisters of this kind may be redeemed from this CULT.

  13. Dear Sister

    It was a blessing to hear your testimony.

    It is also a reality that hundreds and hundreds of sisters in India are suffering like this silently. They have no where to go. Their parents are so blind that they won’t even ask them their condition. These sisters don’t have any access to telephone so that they can tell others their sufferings.

    God bless you sister and may the Good Lord use you more and more for his glory.

    Believers of TPM blood is on you. Many of You have seen and are a Witness to the various atrocities committed against these poor sisters.

    Brothers like Vik G don’t have ‘time’ to see all this as he has more important things to do. Everyone is too scared to invite the so called TPM curse on themselves. They will say and many might even comment that this particular sister is fallen and is nursing a grudge against some poor centre mother. She is cooking stories. Nevertheless, truth will not change.

    I also want to use this opportunity to thank the admin of this website whose tireless work has enabled many to come out of this cult and lead blessed lives. Many have got an opportunity to testify.

    All these testimonies can be used by the wise as a reference or a marker to see And compare if they know of such worker brothers or sisters. If they know of such people who sexually exploit the weak.

    If they have such experiences or know of such people PLEASE KNOW THAT THIS VIRUS IS EVERYWHERE AND THERE IS COMMUNITY TRANSMISSION.

  14. I also had a similar experience, but not with the ministers. You know, it is not only the ministers who are the alibis of this hypocritical organization, but also some believers who are “planted” by them. I had one such encounter with a so called youth leader and have sent a report to the admin telling my story. I am not being selfish nor seek any recognition, but I believe it is imperative to know the serpents among the believers and how they brainwash other innocent youths and children.

    Ergo, I request the admin(s) to post the story as they see fit.

    Regards
    א

    • You sent me one such story. I did not find it any special to publish as the Person Jobey of Kolkata is doing what any of the brainwashed people in TPM ministry does. His job is grabbing people being an alibi to the white clads…But there was nothing unusual in the report you sent me.

      • Regardless of whether its unusual or not, I think you should publish it.

        Or do you only publish unsubstantiated unverifiable stories about TPM ministers?

        Perhaps like our president you are only interested in stories that get you viewership.

        I thought this site was about finding all the things wrong with TPM and baring it for the world to see…

        • //Regardless of whether its unusual or not, I think you should publish it.

          When was the last time you thought that TPM Pastors should start reading testimonies published in fromtpm.com?

        • Vik ,
          Just like you can easily understand what saints want when they request prayers for purchasing new property, I hope you understood Robin’s message. Now would you help him instead of critisizing admin?

  15. It’s a very courageous move to leave the organization and sharing the testimony.
    You are really gracious in not revealing the names of the task mistresses. Its shows your standard even though you could have divulged their names
    I was of the view that the people serve in the western countries are educated, refined and cultured.so the treating the juniors will be very good compared to India
    But its shocking.
    But now you will be put down by calling you as fallen saint, backslider etc
    Canada is ok ,I don’t know . They conduct lot of prayer meetings etc
    can anyone suggest a good church in scarbrough or Pickering

  16. @ Dear all

    Instead saving the foolish believers, why dont we help the sisters to escape from this cult. they dont need much convincing, Will put an advertisement ad on this site..

    1) your ideas are welcome
    2) involve ex sisters.
    3) crowd funding
    4) how to approach.
    5) how to deliver them
    6) how to re settle them

    Im ready to chip in 1000 usd for this.. as an initial payment.

    Once we have a modus op. Will put an ad and invite the sisters to reach us..

    We cant be just a keyboard warriors, admin did his part.. we also have to do something..before its too late.

    • I was saying the same words yesterday. If wedan assure them home and safety. Thousands will walk out . For some we need to talk them through the false curses they bliv after leaving this cult.

    • It’s not really about the money. There are many who have offered to support the ministers who want to come out. The real challenge is to bring them out of their brainwashed condition, & even if you bring them out, they need enough mental strength to endure the marred reputation in society. They will also need the willingness & patience to rebuild their lives. From my experience, the whole process of leaving was scary & confusing in the beginning but once I made a bold step of faith & came out, God did the rest for me. Within a month of applying for jobs, I got a well paying job. I found a good church & in very amazing ways, I got connected to contacts who share the same burden & passion in ministry as I do. So in every way, God comforted me. I believe He can do the same for anyone who is willing to take a step of faith.

      • I suggest we can find a clue from following.

        I Samuel 22:2
        And everyone who was in distress, everyone who was in debt, and everyone who was discontented gathered to him. So he became captain over them. And there were about four hundred men with him.

        People fear because they feel alone . So give them what they need – society. A group. Establish group and advertise it. People will hear and join you.

        If you are alone, then start by opening a public forum similar to fromtpm on Facebook telegram whatsapp website to gather few workers who are trouble in us/canada, etc. Have a number for email for contacting. Advertise it as rehab for ex tpm workers. If you have lots of money use marketing tricks so that it can reach to workers in your country.

        Once people will become aware that there is s group especially for ex-tpm ministers, somebody will definitely try to contact you. This may be beginning. My idea could be refined further.

        • That’s a great idea, people who are still struck inside this cult, let’s help some poor sister who are suffering. Let us help them and educate them so that they can come out of this cult and live a life worthy of God.

      • @ blessed assurance
        Sister, somehow you made it. Praise God for that..

        Did you try to convince, help other sisters..?
        Or releived that you are out of tpm and found a job all goin in a right direction. . So tht you dnt have to bother.?

        Sister you ve missed a great ministry of saving the sisters.

        Admin was chosen, even he didnt imagine this is his calling / ministry / in this only life.

        I thought ex sisters have a great burden lik the ex muslims, for thr fellowmen and women

        But it is disalpointing.. 🙁

        • Please know that rescuing is not as easy as you think. The author of the above testimony is deeply concerned and prayerful as she remembers her former colleagues.

          There’s a season of healing and realignment that all of us endure after the exit.

          My respectful opinion is that it would be good to give her that space…and that grace.

        • @Amazed by Grace and NMSTF,

          A fitting reply, may God bless you both.

          It is really painful to read a comment “Sister you ve missed a great ministry of saving the sisters”. It’s so unfair to assume that Blessed Assurance is just relieved to be out of TPM and is not bothered about others.

          She has very clearly stated that she has found a good church and has connected with people who share the same burden & passion in ministry as she does. This is an amazing start for a person who had been totally brainwashed and held captive in TPM for twelve years!

          The Lord has a great purpose in delivering this sister from such an unthinkable bondage, and He will do greater things through this sister in His appointed time. Let us give her the space and grace, and not be so quick to judge.

      • @Blessed Assurance,

        It is very inspiring to read your story and I admire your courage in not only walking out of this satanic cult but also in posting your testimony on fromtpm.com which in turn would help others in similar state to do the right thing.

        The world would be so boring if there were no armchair critics and keyboard warriors who will try to find something wrong in every good someone does. I wonder what kind of life they lead, must be very miserable.

    • That is actually a good practical solution – to have some method of helping victims get out and supporting them as they try to re-enter the real world.

      • Hi @ Vik’G
        At first we also thought fromtpm way of doing wrong. Later on we realise no. From Head to Toe TPM Clergy are living Hypocritical life. God warning change and come back to Lord.
        Rgs
        Anonymous

  17. Sister, great testimony of escaping the bondage. No more under slavery, you are free in Christ now and may Holy Spirit use you according to his plan in coming future.
    I can tell you my experience that I was en ex tpm believer for 15 years and God allowed some situations to come out 2 years back and now when I look back, I can only thank God that he has showed me right path, took me out of this so called faith system and my life is blessed spiritually and in all other aspects of this life . If God is for us, who is aganist us. Curses, fallen from grace, some one may tell this. Come on, its a joke.
    May God bless you. Praise God.

  18. Very moving testimony sister. I praise God for delivering you from this miry bog.

    Your first case study, the consecrated couple, reminds me of pastor Shaji and his wife Annie who were serving as in-charge workers in Toronto (Scarborough fake home) in 2001. That was the year I moved with my family to Canada. His sermons were so lifeless and boring, it was a challenge for anyone to sit through his message. I believe, this consecrated couple is back again in Toronto now after their stints in the US.

    This couple had a daughter and a son living with them. Even though this pastor couple were aggressively pushing the youth in the church to enter their ministry, they got their own children married at the right time. After all, who would want their own children to endure the kind of hardship you faced, when they can easily trap other youth for such work.

    Your testimony is a blessing and an encouragement to the many deceived who are trapped in this cult. I pray that you will be used for His glory in the days ahead.

  19. ADMN brother,greetings.
    May I thank you for allowing me to use the space of your site for transmitting the news I received from RZIM today……..
    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    Dear Friend,

    Yesterday, Anne and I had some precious moments with the Zacharias family. Amongst a few other things that Ravi-ji shared with us personally, he wanted to send on to you his deepest love and sincerest thanks. Although he can only speak in a whisper, his passion for Jesus Christ, for the Gospel, and for the heart and vision of our team is unwavering. If anything, there were moments when you could only say that his passion burns even brighter. His message to us in many ways was very straightforward: Keep following Christ and keep preaching the Gospel. This we will keep on doing, it is the reason why RZIM exists.
    Only our Lord knows how much time Ravi-ji has, but it appears the time for him to be with the Lord he loved to serve is drawing near. We continue to seek strength in the Lord in these days. As Lamentations says, “The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness.”

    Michael Ramsden
    RZIM President
    ——————————————————————————————————-

    • Dear Brother EE

      The condition of Ravi Zacharias was heart breaking. Nevertheless, maybe his ministry in this world is over. God had seen Ravi from his mother’s womb and maybe his work is done. It was also nice to see and hear from him in these testing times. Blessed hope.

      Let’s continue to pray for this man of God. It’s never too late for a miracle. Let His will be done. May his messages continue to inspire the generations to come.

  20. Dear Vik G

    I know you are busy and don’t have time to
    Answer questions but still if you have time I would like to hear fromyou.

    TPM in US and Canada allows the Pastors to be married and they have children and they also marry off their children. I don’t know if this true because I have seen America only on TV and Internet but the testimony of the sister and few other people who commented implies that. In India the workers are not allowed to marry. I I nfact this system used by TPM to boast of their consecration. We follow the same Jesus in India and US but why this differentiation?

    ANYBODY from TPM can also answer my question.

    • I would like to answer the question of marriage in NTC (US TPM). Workers are highly discouraged from getting marriage and if they do marry, it’s to a believer. I recall 2 who married (one of them came to live in the FH when she was 12 and was considered a special case). The couples lived outside of the FH until their spouse was considered for and taken into ministry. Until that time, they were considered believers and not permitted to take part in any public ministry. After both were received back into ministry, they were treated as a tier below the workers. This was all during Pastor Don’s time–he reluctantly allowed marriage but it was rare and discouraged. Since Pas TU, they tightened the reigns and it is discouraged even more.

      Secondly, any couples who join the ministry are required to live as “brother and sister.” They live in separate rooms in the same house. The children remain in the same FH as the parents, but endure the confusion of having several authority figures over them and not enough of their parents’ love and attention.

      All in all, it’s highly unhealthy and just a western version of the same anti-marriage, anti-family policies of TPM.

  21. IS THE WRITING ON THE WALL?
    What made godhelpus to burst out at ADMN bro?
    Does his bursting achieve any purpose?
    May be the writing is on the wall..and godhelpus fears.
    Its particularly noteworthy to see his burst out came immediately after the TESTIMONY of sister from NTC/ U.S got published in this forum.
    The TESTIMONY was really a wake up call to all the S’pore centre based worker sisters including Malaysia,Hong Kong,and those such places where sisters were made incharges to run those f.hs in India too.
    Poor sisters,they depend on the job holders/laity there.
    Tomorrow  a lot of changes take place as a result of this pandemic virus.
    Those laity/job holders will be displaced,and those worker sisters will eventually leave this ministry and go back home. As this TESTIMONY was widely read and transmitted to various F.Hs , the TRUTH shall set them free.
    Looks like godhelpus does n’t wish anything to happen in that way.
    Dear friend godhelpus,wherever you are in now hear me.
    God has already set the ball rolling. Very shortly some more workers sisters will follow suit and shall walk away from this miry clay.God helps us anyway.
    You will soon hear the news.
    @godhelpus,you must always be grateful to God and thankful to ADMN brother for helping the cause of bringing these workers out of their chaotic situation.
    The prophet Jeremiah says in 7:11.
    “Has this house, which bears My Name, become a den of robbers in your sight? Yes, I too have seen it, declares the LORD”.

  22. Hope every young people in tpm come out of the the bondage of tpm,after reading the articles from this website.This WEBSITE HAS opened the eyes of many blind followers of tpm. Thank god

  23. Fromtpm website has helped to understand what is happening inside the secret society of tpm.Hope many secrets of tpm will be revealed further.

    • @Robin

      Did I criticize you in any way?

      @Cherian seems to think that I did and that I should be helping you instead.

      Puzzled!

      • praise the lord @Vik G
        Proverbs 19:17
        “Whoever is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward them for what they have done.”
        my email id:praveensax3@gmail.com
        whatsapp phone no:9790435624
        if you consider helping me contact me here

        0

  24. It was very painful and I’m deeply hurt by what sister went through. Although i was never a part of this cult, I read every single article posted here. I never knew any of their False doctrines until I read on this forum. My heart is aching and praying for all workers and believes who are under the bondage of slavery when Christ himself liberated us from guilt and shame. I’m happy that I have my own space for bible meditation, prayer and able to share love and forgiveness of Jesus Christ along with a blessed family life. God bless you sister. I don’t think they really read gospels or other epistles. Holy Spirit is the greatest teacher and I believe those who really really seek his face will find his favour. Once again thanks to admin Br and all other supporters. I’m always a silent reader of all articles and comments. Today I really wanted to appreciate the sister who took a bold step to live for Christ and win many souls for him.

  25. I have been following this site for a few years now. I am an exbeliever of NTC/TPM -USA. I have been waiting for testimonies like this to come out of the USA. It seemed like alot of believers think the West is better, it’s not. I was raised in this church and there is just as much secrecy and wrongdoings here in the USA. This testimony sounds right on point. I would see sister ministers transferred around alot – down the gossip grapevine we would hear they were having an eye kept on them because they were sick or *gasp* they might want to leave the ministry (keeping them from leaving the cult). I had many many questions to the ministers in charge growing up as a child, teenager, and young adult in this church/cult. My questions led me out of this cult. I agree that something needs to be done to help ministers who may want to leave but are limited with schooling/finances/living situation. If something is set up we can get the word out and save more people from this cult church.

  26. @ ABAS.”I could not really bring me to do this, as I felt the whole experience so artificial void of any real spiritual value.”

    A true narration of the technique of artificial in filling of Holy Spirit.
    This is in one way demeaning and degrading the presence of God, and instead bringing the atmosphere filled pleasant music,what they do ..they demonize it.
    Your narration reminds me the Bible episode of ELIJAH’s encounter with Baal’s 450 prophets. Watch the words that came from the mouth of Elijah.
    .”for you are many:and call on the name of your god, but put no fire in it.””
    “O Baal,answer us”,
    “But there was no voice,and no one answered.”
    “And they limped about the alter”
    Elijah mocked at them.(Here we are perfectly justified to mock these subjects you mentioned)
    “Cry aloud for he is a god, either he is musing or he has gone aside,or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep, and must be awakened”(1 Kgs18:25-27)
    ASAS brother,thank you for your reminiscences that are filled with mines of truth.
    Yes, we need to chew the cud some times like this in order to strengthen our spiritual man inside.
    This exercise of ours will certainly help understand the younger generations to unlearn the wrong precepts of this cult.
    To understand this technique only the insiders like you and me could be the best bet to describe.
    This is so true even in Telugu states AP/TELANGANA areas too. This is a kind of infectious VIRUS that had been introduced to all over India local/centre conventions.
    Who was original man that could be named for this infectious disease?
    Was it Victor Mohan or his gurus?
    Probably our beloved Sam Alan could throw some light on this.

    One more observation brother, you must ‘ve forgotten to add.You must ‘ve found the drum beating sister would also ready to join the crescendo!(this is the correct word)
    She would try to increase her tempo of beating in order to match the frequency of casio.
    Totally a circus view indeed!

  27. In TPM all servants are Consecrated
    They do not Get Married
    But here left out Sister said she is in Faith home where Pastor and his wife are there.
    So simply we can understand that this is Fake because in tpm Servants of God are not allowed to Marry
    So we are not having deaf ears to listen ur Fake Testimony
    God is Going To Judge Everyone oneday
    So Believe 7 steps to Salvation and Zion
    Praise be to the Holy name of the Lord

    • There is only one way to salvation and that is through Jesus Christ, our Savior.

      If TPM is claiming other ways to gain salvation, or stating that you must do some things in addition to Jesus to obtain salvation, then you are saying Jesus Christ’s death and resurrection was not powerful enough to save you. You are diminishing the power of Christ’s work on the Cross and the grace and mercy of God.

      If TPM boasts their people obtain a higher seat in heaven, then the whole institution is based on pride and self-seeking behavior. TPM’s goal is to gain glory and be the highest among others whereas Jesus stepped down from glory and humbled Himself to the lowest of all to save us. TPM claims separation from the world and subsequent holiness, but Christ ate and drank with sinners to display God’s great love for all of His children. You shouldn’t be trying to gain the pleasures and glory of Zion. You should be willing to even die to gain Christ alone.

      I’d rather endure the harshest of sufferings with the steady comfort of knowing my Savior and be seated at the very end of the banquet table when kingdom comes, than make a ton of noise claiming to deserve a seat at the right hand of Christ.

    • Dear TPM servant, how do you call them servant. They are called Apostles directly called by god as explained to me by a senior pastor after a rough discussion.
      Show me one word called consecrated Servant in context with Kingdom of God in the whole Bible.
      Also please clarify which seven steps of salvation and Zion you are referring to.
      You are saying that this is fake home because the apostles there got married. But dear servant of TPM wake up !!! as living as husband and wife legally or clandestinely is both allowed by your leadership. Depends on which country you are from.
      So my sincere advise to you dear Consecrated servant of TPm on your way to Zion through the seven steps of your salvation is .. WAKE UP.

    • First of all why tpm wants to open a church in foreign countries…when there are so many states in india to cover for jesus…i dont just understand the motto of tpm.
      Tpm is enjoying the luxury of easy free money.I think tpm faults and scandal crimes should be exposed in all tv channels in india..this will be the only way to stop tpm.. spread awareness about tpm faults

      • //First of all why tpm wants to open a church in foreign countries//

        TPM in USA and Canada primarily exists to serve (and milk) the thriving immigrant community of Indian and Sri Lankan origin. As they don’t do any evangelism or preach the gospel of deliverance in North America, you will not find any whites or nationalities other than Indians and Sri Lankans in their churches, but for the odd black or poor Mexican ones.

        As the immigrants flow to USA and Canada is on the rise (70% of the H1B visas issued in the USA are for Indians), TPM in these countries is thriving at the moment. Due to Trump’s present temporary curb on H1B visas and also due to the current international travel restrictions, there is an interim setback for this cult in these countries. If Trump wins a second term, he is likely to impose restrictions on foreigners entering USA on work visas, and this will have an impact on this cult here.

    • @Tpm Servant:
      //In TPM all servants are Consecrated
      They do not Get Married//

      The illiterate Tpm Servants in India are like a frog in a well, so ignorant of their own cult outside their immediate surroundings. They think all Tpm Servants all over the world are unmarried. Thanks to a large number of frogs like them (both servants and believers), TPM is still successful in pulling the celibacy wool over their eyes.

      There are married people ministering in TPM USA and Canada. I have provided the names of one such pastor couple ministering in Toronto, Canada in this thread.

      I wonder if this Tpm Servant is aware of the fact that the founder of this mission, Pastor Paul, was a married man. There were also other married frogs (like pastors Manoharan and I. Joseph) in the past that lived in the same well that this poor Tpm Servant now lives.

        • @Bk:
          I don’t live in Toronto but a different city in Ontario. I attend a non denominational community church. It’s an hour and a half drive from Scarborough and may not be convenient for you.

          Instead of searching for a Pentecostal church, please look for a non denominational church whose teachings align with the bible.

          Pentecostal churches still teach & practice tithing, whereas, the new testament church is no longer bound by this law. We are instructed to be generous in our giving, especially to the poor. Pentecostal churches preach a lot about prosperity, which is not biblical. Most of them even practice ’90 day tithing challenge’, which is an absurd thing (google to see more on this). They preach that ‘tongues’ is the only evidence of having received the Holy Spirit, which is contrary to the scriptures (please read 1 Corinthians 12 and 14 chapters). Then their belief on pre-trib rapture, … …. I can go on and on.

          You will find very good articles on all the subjects I have mentioned above on this site (fromtpm.com). These articles are well written with lot of scriptural support. If you read them with an open mind with a desire to know the truth, you will not want to be associated with any Pentecostal or Charismatic church.

          I made the mistake of joining a Pentecostal church (PAOC) after I left TPM and it took me five more years to learn that their doctrines too are contrary to the biblical truth. If you are diligent in comparing the doctrines of major denominational churches with the bible, you will find that most of them are erroneous. Prayerfully consider your next church/fellowship as it is very important for you to grow spiritually. May God guide you in this.

        • Someone by name ‘J’ has commented as (on May 15, 2020): “Hi, former ex-TPM here, I live Toronto too! I can suggest a few places! God bless you!”.

          Perhaps, J could post his church recommendations here. You may check them by reviewing their “Statement of Faith” to see if they align with the Word of God. As there are no physical church gatherings these days, you may also watch/listen them online to determine if they will cater to your spiritual needs.

      • In fact not only are there married couples serving in western branches of this Ministry, there are also ordained and practicing Ministers who are widows and divorcees, some with pre-ordination children.
        #fact #May2020

        • @myself ntc,

          //there are also ordained and practicing Ministers who are widows and divorcees, some with pre-ordination children//

          Brother, is this really true?, is it possible to disclose possible real case scenarios of the divorcees who are ministers?, as this is considered cheating by the tpm/ntc/ncpc so called consecrated ministry they are proclaiming. Widows, we can understand but divorcees? (pertaining to situation/case by case, according to Matt 5:32) is contrary & wrong, need a wider tpm audience from east to be aware of that.

        • @JesusisLord
          I know of a George Kuruvilla who is a divorcee. As far as I understand, it was TPM which fiddled with his marriage and forced him to divorce. He is now a pastor in Mumbai Centre. He used to Minister in Hongkong, Kenya, Cyprus earlier.

  28. It is only in India they are not married. It is NTC which is TPM branch in USA. Know the double standards of TPM first. They will change rules from country to country.

    • What a hypocracy of tpm…they are like chameleons changing color….according to the circumstance and environment.
      Thank you sister @surya for exposing this…i came to know this from you only

  29. @Richie ,
    Dear Richie brother,
    I am highly thankful to my Lord for the beautiful fellowship of brethren group that He has granted us in these days, particularly after we parted the company of this CULT which was so dear us in the past. Its really amazing that in every second and in every minute we get corrected by this site’s excellent corridor where we get to know many different kinds of EPISODES that thrill our minds. In this same corridor we find various varieties of comments of both mature and immature in nature. By sharing our spiritual experiencies,-vis-a-vis the views expressed in the articles,we are nailing down the false teachings going around the globe, for which we are highly thankful to ADMN for sharing his experiences that couple us with an opportunity to stand as living witnesses unto the Lord. We are highly fortunate to have got such a lively FORUM.
    I wish some where in future we all will meet each other and get to know face to face only to glorify our SAVIOUR.What a pleasant idea is this!
    Certainly our Lord is going to be glorified amongst His saints when they meet together like this. But we do not declare it to the world as Satan would certainly try to defuse it.

    WE ARE THE MINI CONVENTION FOR OUR LORD.

    OUR LORD IS GOING TO CERTAINLY REJOICE EVER MORE WHEN HIS PEOPLE MEET ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY WERE UNDER BONDAGE FOR SO MANY YEARS!
    WELL,TILL THAT HOUR COMES WE WILL MAINTAIN OUR ANONIMITY, WHAT DO YOU SAY BROTHER?

    But many were airing their views on the contents of these articles could be shared to YOU TUBE and FACEBOOK and other channels. I do not wish to subscribe their theory, simply because when you do that, you are throwing the most coveted truths into the big ocean.
    You can understand the results. The truth is thrown into the sea.
    For example Dr. Ravi Zacharias news updates, when I just turned to WIKEPEDIA yesterday night, some one wrongly posted the news of his demise when he is still alive at this very hour by the grace of God!
    So much embarrasing that news media is! It is a big ocean that one can get easily swayed away by its contents, and there is nobody to cross verify those news items.

    But here in this website that danger was averted by our excellent fellowship that we are like a fellow watchmen, we keep company with dear ADMN brother.
    I made amends to ADMN brother yesterday night for that wrong reporting of that fake news item and requested him to delete it it which he did it I am sure.

    Let us continue to lend our helping hand to ADMN brother and his team in achieving the huge task of his goal and objective of this blessed site brother.
    How good and pleasant it is when brothers dwell in unity!
    I truly cherish the beautiful fellowship that the Lord granted us. Thank you brother.

    • @ Eagle Eye
      // wish some where in future we all will meet each other and get to know face to face only to glorify our SAVIOUR.What a pleasant idea is this!
      // WE ARE MINI CONVENTION

      Can we arrange fromtpm convention like our tpm convention ?

      1. Admin & team will be posted in separate building and private room
      2. Readers from foreign country also get special room
      3. We all readers from india will stay in combined hall over mats
      4. Admin & team get mango juice from special fromtpm kitchen
      5. We eat in separate hall rassam rice sambar
      6. On pulpit Admin sit on chair, we keep many table fans from all sides for admin
      7. We listen his preaching in hall having no fan
      8. Blessed Assurance will give testimony
      9. I will fill in spirit and fly in air more than all of you
      10. Eagle eye will be given guard duty . He roam on ground with rod.
      11. Rich people will be given marketing duty , driving for chief pastor and duty of attending new comer to fromtpm convention
      12. Poor people in fromtpm group will be given responsibility to clean toilet
      13. I will collect all money coming for fromtpm convention

    • Dear Brother EE

      Truly Brother Admin has done a great Ministry by forming this website and painstakingly writing 400+ articles to remove the mask from the cult that is TPM. I pray that may the Lord Almighty bless all the hands that are tirelessly working to maintain and run this website (I assume that Admin may not be alone).

      To the readers I would like to say that you did not just stumble on this website. It was God that led you here. Now, it’s up to you to discern the truth and act accordingly. You will have to answer God for continuing to feed this Mammon. There are many brothers and especially worker sisters who are suffering day and night. They have nowhere to go. They can’t go back to their families because they do not want them to be ashamed and cursed by the local faith home they belong to and in some cases even the parents might disown them. These poor sisters rather go through all this atrocities.

      PLEASE DO NOT REMAIN SILENT WHEN YOU SEE OR HEAR ABOUT ANY ATROCITY BEING DONE ON A WORKER SISTER. IF YOU ARE MARRIED YOUR WIFE MAY KNOW ABOUT IT. MANY TIMES THEY GO TO BELIEVER SISTERS AND GIVE A HINT ABOUT THEIR PLIGHT. PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THIS HAS TO BE ANSWERED. IF YOU HAVE A SISTER WHO IS CAUGHT IN THIS, TALK TO HER AND BRING HER BACK HOME.

      THIS CORONA IS HERE TO TELL US ALL THAT THERE IS LIFE APART FROM THE CLERGY. NO CLERGY CAN TAKE YOU TO HEAVEN OR SAVE YOU FROM IT. MANY PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE STARTED TO TASTE A SENSE OF FREEDOM FROM THIS CLERGY WHO HAD TO STARTED TO CONTROL AND MANAGE THEIR LIVES. I WOULD LIKE TO QUOTE 2 CORINTHIANS 3:17 :NOW THE LORD IS THAT SPIRIT: AND WHERE THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS, THERE IS LIBERTY.

      MAY GOD BLESS YOU ALL….

  30. “But we do not declare it to the world as Satan would certainly try to defuse it”
    —————————————————
    We are very happy to know that ELINA has finally shifted her CAMP.

    When did she shift her camp from her original TPM camp? She only should answer
    Its good news then.It is better for her either to stay either cold or hot. No lukewarm status.
    What she has to do now, is this.She should take the clear instructions from ADMN and his esteemed TEAM members. Instead of that, she put the cold water already,doing her own will.
    At the outset,she should collect the list of such people
    Get their TESTIMONYs to get published(like her TESTIMONY),prepare all the erstwhile friends like MANJUs,CALVINs,and DALVINs and any more ALWYNs that are left over for that impending MINI convention so that it becomes a MEGA convention.
    She already committed the grave blunder by coming out publicly with that 13 point agenda.
    Now surely Satan comes to know this secret agenda and will thwart her plans.
    Now that Elina has opened up everything ,Satan will certainly defuse it
    There is no doubt about that. Elina has to come out with a JUMBO SUPER plan to destroy Satan’s mind. She should no more commit the same mistake.
    Will she be able to do that? It all depends on her skills.

  31. Why not translate this testimony into Tamil ?
    I’ll try to help only for this testimony. Because I have seen things happening like this with my own eyes.

    But I need a lot of time.
    Bcoz I’m not good in tamil. Will try to translate thru Google translation lil by little.and when I’m done I’ll send you.

  33. @ADMN
    @NMSTF,@RICHIE,@ABAS,@DJ@REDEEMED,@SURYA,@JOICE,@LEENA SAMUEL@ELINA@LIBERATED@NATH,@FRANKLIN@DOMINIC,@HANNIBAL

    Wish to share with you all dear brethren,
    Here is the latest update (9 hrs ago) recd from RZIM
    —————————————————————————–
    “Please do continue in prayer. Pray also for those who are close to Ravi. As you can imagine, we have so many mixed emotions at this time, but there is an overwhelming sense of gratitude for the way in which you continue to stand with us, continue to support us, continue to pray for us, and continue to encourage us. Thank you so much.

    Michael Ramsden
    RZIM President
    ……………………………………………………….
    What a joy it is when we witness that MASTER pays heed to the prayers of His beloved ones who are in His will and purpose.

  34. @ANTHONY PARKER,@AMAZING GRACE,@ AllGloryToChristAlone
    (list is being contd)
    Wish to share with you all dear brethren,

    Here is the latest update (9 hrs ago) recd from RZIM
    —————————————————————————–
    “Please do continue in prayer. Pray also for those who are close to Ravi. As you can imagine, we have so many mixed emotions at this time, but there is an overwhelming sense of gratitude for the way in which you continue to stand with us, continue to support us, continue to pray for us, and continue to encourage us. Thank you so much.
    Michael Ramsden
    RZIM President
    ……………………………………………………….
    What a joy it is when we witness that MASTER pays heed to the prayers of His beloved ones who are in His will and purpose.

  35. Brother ABAS,

    How is your parents? What was their reaction when you left TPM?

    From the interactions with many ex TPM ministers and believers, I can very well conclude that only the pure grace of God bring the people out of the CULT called Tetti Poya Marggam (TPM).

  36. Brother Franklin,

    My mother passed away when I was transitioning out of TPM, so I could not gauge her feelings or reactions precisely. On the few occasions that I spoke to her about my attending a non-TPM church in Canada, she did not discourage me on this, but counseled me that my loyalty should always be to Jesus and not to any church or denomination.

    I had more interaction with my late father during my many visits to India after exiting TPM, and our discussions were always cordial and never ended in an argument or unpleasantness whenever I pointed out the many hypocrisies of this church in the west and how they flex their rules for the rich. He never tried to justify the questionable practices of TPM and used to tell me that only a very few will find the way that leads to life even in TPM (Matthew 7:14).

    As my visits to India were always short, I never wanted to limit my conversations to only about TPM with my father, as this would ruin the quality of my vacation time there. My parents never forced me on spiritual matters after I became economically independent, but only used to offer advises and encouragements to strengthen my spiritual walk with Jesus. My parents reacted very graciously to my exit from TPM and I am thankful to God for that.

    • Brother ABAS,
      Thanks for your prompt and precise reply. May God bless you abundantly with scriptural truth alongwith other needs.

  37. @Jesus is Lord…
    To public knowledge in USA, there are 3 adults who are currently serving as NTC ministers with a personal history of divorced/legally separated marital relationships.
    EX: Pastor Chuck Parker

    • Wow perfect example of the NTC following the New Testament regarding the laws of divorce. Perfect show case….

  38. I thinking that all of you against TPM, if you chosen wrong ministry then what will you do?. wherever and whatever church you go, you should confine to bible and to worship god only.

    Don’t think you have great knowledge. why don’t start new church for saving souls from cult churches. Instead of blaming and i agree that in 100 fruits there is some fruits will get damage (People also like J Willliams). These people will fallen due to our praises (believers). Why you haven’t warning don’t close to preachers. Myself will go to church and to pray Jesus only. We have to put some rules for to live in best in Jesus Christ otherwise it leads to fallen.
    (Please excuse for my English and I am not perfect in English)

    • @ (Please excuse for my English and I am not perfect in English)

      Chandu,
      If you have problems in writing english, then you can certainly improve it. Start reading a lot of material in english. Best way is to start is reading through the articles of this site. Soon you will feel better. Both your english and theology will improve. Maybe your dead conscience will begin to heal and you will realize the hazards of continuing inside tpm.

      • Here English is not matter and I will take care my English. Subject is You are in right path are not. Don’t judge yourself as godly man.Tell me which church you’re going? And as per your reasearch tell which church is best church for heaven’s

        • @ And as per your research tell which church is the best church for heaven’s

          No church can take you to heaven. Don’t rely on any church, any agent, any mediator that claims to make you worthy of God. Nobody other than Jesus can do that. Bible says Jesus is the author and finisher of your faith. Not any church. Not any man. No one has begun your Christian faith, and no one will finish it for you other than Christ.

          Kindly listen to this one minute video. Will not take much of your time. Please listen.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwq0wd2hqu8

        • @ EE & Abas
          Speaking in tongues is a spiritual experience and you know that there are so many verses in the Bible that’s says 1. Its edifies 2 you speak secret with God 3. Its a heavenly language and it’s a Gift.
          If you don’t have this gift ,that doesn’t mean its unbiblical. It’s a personal relationship with the Holy spirit .
          Everyone need not have to have the gifts of the Spirit But St Paul emphasize to have the desire for it.
          If you believe in Post tribulation and if you desire for it, God will fulfill your wishes and will take you through tribulation

        • @Bk:
          //Speaking in tongues is a spiritual experience and you know that there are so many verses in the Bible that’s says 1. Its edifies 2 you speak secret with God 3. Its a heavenly language and it’s a Gift.//

          Please don’t be so quick to comment without reading my post carefully. I never mentioned that ‘tongues’ is not a gift of the Holy Spirit. It is definitely ONE of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I only mentioned that the Pentecostals preach that ‘tongues’ is the ONLY evidence of the Holy Spirit, which is not scriptural. If you know of any verse to show that ‘tongues’ is the ONLY evidence of having received the Holy Spirit, please post it.

          Here is my original comment: “They preach that ‘tongues’ is the ONLY evidence of having received the Holy Spirit, which is contrary to the scriptures (please read 1 Corinthians 12 and 14 chapters)”. You seem to have missed the “ONLY” in my comment. Read 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 where ‘tongues’ is mentioned as one of the several gifts of the Holy Spirit.

          I again encourage you to read 1 Corinthians 12 and 14 chapters without a Pentecostal lens to understand the gift of tongues clearly. These are the only chapters in the entire New Testament where the gift of tongues is spoken about, apart from three instances in the book of Acts. Apostle Paul raises a question in 1 Corinthians 12:29-30 “Do all speak in tongues?”. The obvious answer is “no”. All need not have the gift of tongues, but can have other gifts as the Holy Spirit distributes (verse 4).

          //If you don’t have this gift ,that doesn’t mean its unbiblical//
          I don’t understand what made you arrive at this conclusion. Many of us commenting on this site (including the Admin) have this gift and are thankful to God for the same. But this gift is not given to divide the body of Christ into “haves” and “have-nots” as the Pentecostals do. Gifts of the Holy Spirit are given to the body of Christ (church) to unify its members and not divide.

          //If you believe in Post tribulation and if you desire for it, God will fulfill your wishes and will take you through tribulation//
          This is an unprovoked comment stated in very poor taste. If you believe in pre-trib rapture, you may engage in a healthy debate by posting your questions to me, but not with a hostile comment with the intent to hurt. If you have read the articles on rapture series on this site, you would not have reacted the way you did. Please read them before posting your questions here.

          You have directly asked me about recommendation for a church (fellowship), and I replied to you. It is entirely up to you to consider my recommendation or not. Let us not get into a contentious debate on this.

  39. Message for all who would be concerned. Ravi Zacharias has finished his ministry on this earth and left for his heavenly abode. Below is the message posted on RZIM.org

    //On January 4, my dad recited a stanza from this hymn from the late Richard Baxter (1615-1691):

    “Lord, it belongs not to my care
    Whether I die or live;
    To love and serve Thee is my share,
    And this Thy grace must give.
    If life be long, I will be glad,
    That I may long obey;
    If short, yet why should I be sad
    To welcome endless day?

    Christ leads me through no darker rooms
    Than He went through before;
    He that unto God’s kingdom comes
    Must enter by this door.
    Come Lord, when grace hath made me meet
    Thy blessed face to see;
    For if Thy work on earth be sweet
    What will thy glory be!

    Then I shall end my sad complaints
    And weary sinful days,
    And join with the triumphant saints
    That sing my Savior’s praise.
    My knowledge of that life is small,
    The eye of faith is dim;
    But ‘tis enough that Christ knows all,
    And I shall be with Him.”

    None of us could have imagined just two months after reciting that last stanza that my dad would learn he had cancer and he would experience the realization of this more than 300-year-old hymn so soon. Today we affirm, as my dad recited and Baxter penned, “But ‘tis enough that Christ knows all, and I shall be with Him.” My dad, at 74, has “join[ed] with the triumphant saints that sing [his] Savior’s praise.” We who knew and loved him celebrate his life, and more importantly, his Savior.

    It was his Savior, Jesus Christ, that my dad always wanted most to talk about. Even in his final days, until he lacked the energy and breath to speak, he turned every conversation to Jesus and what the Lord had done. He perpetually marveled that God took a seventeen-year-old skeptic, defeated in hopelessness and unbelief, and called him into a life of glorious hope and belief in the truth of Scripture—a message he would carry across the globe for 48 years.

    His thoughts and conversations in recent years and his final weeks were saturated with gratitude for this team of evangelists, apologists, and staff that he called family: RZIM—Ravi Zacharias International Ministries. He spoke of our evangelists’ tender hearts and their love for people. Some have said my dad blazed a trail when he began commending the Christian faith and addressing life’s great questions of meaning nearly five decades ago. As one friend dear to him remarked, he has also paved that path, desiring that his teammates around the world would continue so untold millions might know the same Jesus he faithfully served—the one he now sees face-to-face.

    My dad’s humility, grace, tenderness for people, and above all love for the Lord are forever imprinted on my mind, my heart, and my life. His love for our family will be impossible to replace until we join him in heaven one day. Ravi and Margie just celebrated their 48th wedding anniversary. My mother was entirely committed to my dad’s calling and to this ministry, believing God called them together. I cannot recall even one moment when I saw her commitment to this calling weaken, because she always placed unwavering trust in the God who called them and in His purposes. We experienced God’s kindness and faithfulness in so many ways as we felt Him journeying with us in bringing my dad home. For this we are at peace and filled with deep gratitude to God for the innumerable expressions of His love. Naomi, Nathan, and I are deeply grateful for your continuing prayers for our mother, Margie, and the many expressions of love you have shown to her and to us.

    Soon our family will gather for a graveside service. In the days ahead we will provide details for a public memorial service to be held in Atlanta and streamed around the world.//

  40. @ ADMN bro.
    @Johnson bro.
    @ Rest of the wellwishers of Dr. Ravi Zachariah,
    I just wish to share with you,the news that is posted into my inbox a few minute ago.
    /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    Ravi Zacharias, Now with Jesus

    An announcement from Sarah Davis

    On January 4, my dad recited a stanza from this hymn from the late Richard Baxter (1615-1691):

    “Lord, it belongs not to my care
    Whether I die or live;
    To love and serve Thee is my share,
    And this Thy grace must give.

    If life be long, I will be glad,
    That I may long obey;
    If short, yet why should I be sad
    To welcome endless day?

    Christ leads me through no darker rooms
    Than He went through before;
    He that unto God’s kingdom comes
    Must enter by this door.

    Come Lord, when grace hath made me meet
    Thy blessed face to see;
    For if Thy work on earth be sweet
    What will thy glory be!

    Then I shall end my sad complaints
    And weary sinful days,
    And join with the triumphant saints
    That sing my Savior’s praise.

    My knowledge of that life is small,
    The eye of faith is dim;
    But ‘tis enough that Christ knows all,
    And I shall be with Him.”

    None of us could have imagined just two months after reciting that last stanza that my dad would learn he had cancer and he would experience the realization of this more than 300-year-old hymn so soon. Today we affirm, as my dad recited and Baxter penned, “But ‘tis enough that Christ knows all, and I shall be with Him.” My dad, at 74, has “join[ed] with the triumphant saints that sing [his] Savior’s praise.” We who knew and loved him celebrate his life, and more importantly, his Savior.

    It was his Savior, Jesus Christ, that my dad always wanted most to talk about. Even in his final days, until he lacked the energy and breath to speak, he turned every conversation to Jesus and what the Lord had done. He perpetually marveled that God took a seventeen-year-old skeptic, defeated in hopelessness and unbelief, and called him into a life of glorious hope and belief in the truth of Scripture—a message he would carry across the globe for 48 years.

    His thoughts and conversations in recent years and his final weeks were saturated with gratitude for this team of evangelists, apologists, and staff that he called family: RZIM—Ravi Zacharias International Ministries. He spoke of our evangelists’ tender hearts and their love for people. Some have said my dad blazed a trail when he began commending the Christian faith and addressing life’s great questions of meaning nearly five decades ago. As one friend dear to him remarked, he has also paved that path, desiring that his teammates around the world would continue so untold millions might know the same Jesus he faithfully served—the one he now sees face-to-face.

    My dad’s humility, grace, tenderness for people, and above all love for the Lord are forever imprinted on my mind, my heart, and my life. His love for our family will be impossible to replace until we join him in heaven one day. Ravi and Margie just celebrated their 48th wedding anniversary. My mother was entirely committed to my dad’s calling and to this ministry, believing God called them together. I cannot recall even one moment when I saw her commitment to this calling weaken, because she always placed unwavering trust in the God who called them and in His purposes. We experienced God’s kindness and faithfulness in so many ways as we felt Him journeying with us in bringing my dad home. For this we are at peace and filled with deep gratitude to God for the innumerable expressions of His love. Naomi, Nathan, and I are deeply grateful for your continuing prayers for our mother, Margie, and the many expressions of love you have shown to her and to us.

    Soon our family will gather for a graveside service. In the days ahead we will provide details for a public memorial service to be held in Atlanta and streamed around the world.

    The Gospel of John records these words of Jesus: “Because I live, you also will live” (14:19)—seven words that changed the trajectory of Ravi Zacharias’s life some 57 years ago. It is a verse etched on his grandmother’s grave stone and will be etched on his too. Today my beautiful father is more alive than he has ever been. We thank God for him and recommit our lives to sharing this truth with all who will hear, until He calls us to our eternal home.

    With deep love and gratitude, and on behalf of Margie, Naomi, and Nathan,

    Sarah Davis

  41. @ADMN bro.
    Thank you brother, your site has attained a place of quietness and tranquillity and a place of solace where we could able exchange our deep thoughts of spiritual experiences,our real life experiences though none of the brethren could know face to face (except a few). We ‘ve been operating,communicating 24×7 by your kind help that you provided through opening this blessed site way back in OCT’2016.We are extremely thankful to you that you ‘ve been allowing our valuable exchanges in these years resulted us in bringing us together within
    our selves and most importantly to the beautiful fellowship of JESUS.I think this is a kind of vouchsafe of the most of the !% contributing authors we have on this blessed site.
    Had this site not been opened up, we would not have found a place of exchanging, communicating and more over sharing our personal testimonies like in these days that we been watching. For example ABAS,FRANKLIN,and I have really rejoiced over the few exchanges we shared how we were fortunate to have a blessed up bringing by our beloved parents.
    We really cherish those reminiscences of those blessed experiences and give glory to God as Dr. Ravi’s daughter Sarah pours out her heart in paying tributes to her late father.
    I profusely thank you dear ADMN brother for sharing these lines.
    ———————————————————————–

    “Because I live, you also will live”
    The Gospel of John records these words of Jesus: “Because I live, you also will live” (14:19)—seven words that changed the trajectory of Ravi Zacharias’s life some 57 years ago. It is a verse etched on his grandmother’s grave stone and will be etched on his too. Today my beautiful father is more alive than he has ever been. We thank God for him and recommit our lives to sharing this truth with all who will hear, until He calls us to our eternal home.

    • @ Chandu
      @ Can I go for Church or not as per Bible

      No. As per bible church (ekklessia) is assembly of living stones. It is not made up of human hands. Spirit of God dwells in us. It does not dwell in buildings made up of bricks. So the answer is you cannot go to church. We are church (dwelling place of God,). This is as per bible as you have asked.

    • @ Chandu
      Let me make it easier for you.
      If by phrase “church” you mean fellowship of people saved by trusting in Christ, then yes. You can join fellowship of people. But you need to decide whether the fellowship you wish to join, is right fellowship or not, depending on basic tenet of faith – which is what does fellowship trust in as thing that saves us. Is it sacrifice of Jesus or whether they have low value of death of Jesus on cross and higher value for something else apart from death of Jesus Christ..

      In tpm’s case they have low valuation of the price Jesus paid on cross to save us. According to tpm death of Jesus is mere first step. According to tpm , It alone cannot save us. They value remaining six steps which are needed to be added to what Jesus did, so as to increase valuation of work of Jesus by their own efforts.

      That makes me sick of their basic faith which appears not at all Christian..

  43. Kindly mention biblical verse and chapter regarding not required to go for Church. Can u explain 1st Corinthians.

    • Chandu
      You are using same terminology. It seems you are not reading what I wrote.

      You tell me a scripture which says going to a place where people gather for fellowship is an requirement for salvation, and then I tell you verse where it is mentioned it is not requirement.

      @explaining I Corinthians
      It will take few days. Better

  44. @Bk..”If you believe in Post tribulation and if you desire for it, God will fulfill your wishes and will take you through tribulation”

    Dear brother Bk,You ‘ve touched a very relevant issue that bothers many in these days .I decided to add a few things before I go further on the conclusion part you ended up.

    What Does the Bible Say About Speaking in Tongues?

    Let us have some Frequently Asked Questions in mind.

    1.Do I have to speak in tongues to be saved?
    2.Does the Bible say it is wrong to speak in tongues?
    3.Is speaking in tongues a genuine gift of the Holy Spirit or not?
    4.Is speaking in tongues one of the spiritual gifts mentioned in the Bible?

    Let us discuss the issue matching with the personal experiences that we have thus far.I think ABAS brother and many of the 1% contributing authors of this august site would also pour with their personal TESTIMONIES on this subject. Let us not evade this matter . This assumes importance in the contemporary theological issues.I think ADMN brother might have covered this aspect of SPEAKING IN TONGUES in many of 414 EPISODES touched so far.

    The Bible Speaking in tongues means: Speaking in a way or in a language that is not normally understood by the speaker or the listeners.
    The bible mentions two types of speaking in tongues:
    On the day of Pentecost Jesus’ apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in other tongues. Those who heard this speech each heard it in his own language, even though they were from many different countries (Acts 2:1-13).
    Even though the apostles were speaking in an unknown language, the listeners were able to understand, each in his own language.
    There is no other mention of this type of speaking in tongues in the Bible.
    Speaking in an ecstatic language was common among members of the early Christian churches, but no one could understand this form of speaking in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:2). Sometimes the speaker or another person would interpret the meaning.
    Both cases were the work of the Holy Spirit. The apostle Paul classified speaking in tongues as just one of the spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:6-11, Romans 12:6-8). Paul was thankful for his own gift of speaking in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:18-19). 

    But Paul told his churches that it was better practiced in private than in church, unless someone could interpret the ecstatic speech (1 Corinthians 14:23, 27-28). 

    The gift of speaking in tongues was less important than the gifts of prophecy (1 Corinthians 14:2-5) and love (1 Corinthians 13:1).
    Nevertheless, speaking in tongues should not be forbidden (1 Corinthians 14:39).
    Several other New Testament passages point to speaking in tongues as evidence of the working of the Holy Spirit (Mark 16:17, Acts 10:44-46, Acts 19:4-6).

    However, there is nothing in the Bible saying speaking in tongues is necessary for salvation.

    Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches, WHAT DO THEY INSIST.(made it a part of their doctrines)
    Speaking in tongues is an important part of worship in a number of Pentecostal and charismatic churches. Some Pentecostal churches, including Assemblies of God, Our earswhile CPM/TPM band wagon teach that speaking in tongues is evidence of baptism in the Holy Spirit,
    but, Bible says it is not essential for salvation and eternal life as I quoted Apostle Paul as above .
    Some other Pentecostal denominations like IPC teach that speaking in tongues is experienced by everyone who has truly been saved. Because I was the product of IPC and blessed with this gift even before I was stolen by the WOLVES. I think you understood what I meant.

    The Pentecostal movement began in the United States at the beginning of the twentieth century. In the space of 120/130 years, it has become a major sector of worldwide Christianity, along with the Catholic, Orthodox and traditional Protestant churches.
    In addition to the Pentecostal churches, there are charismatic parishes within the Roman Catholic Church, and many traditional Protestants have also experienced speaking in tongues.
    In the mid 90s’ as I was involved in setting up new FAITH HOMES in AP area,KURNOOL town one such area that I recall that I was given task of preaching and declaring the gospel news in COLES CENTENARY BAPIST CHURCH (as to follow the traditional STEALING of the sheep– that we must win some souls from that kind of denomination to be added to the future branch of KURNOOL f.h).
    Believe me, as I was speaking in the Baptist church, many believers mainly mothers filled with the speaking of tongues experience. Later local convention was held in KURNOOL town,and subsequently one F.H. was opened in AP state.( It was undivided state then).We were sure that many earstwhile believers of Baptist church might have shifted their allegiance to TPM at that time .That was how THIS STEALING OF SHEEP was completed with the connivance and active involvement of educated people like us even as we were holding our mundane jobs to support us.

    Many traditional Christians, however, believe that the gift of speaking in tongues was no longer given after the apostolic age in the first century (1 Corinthians 13:8), or consider the gift to be of minor importance. Anyway t leave it to the personal conscience of the beloved ones.
    I was a PRE TRIP believing man before as long as I keeping the fellowship with this BEAST. But thanks this website opened my thinking after going through many articles it pubished with the strong scriptural base and i believe POST TRIB was the aspect that the Bible was referring to. I look forward to many of our beloved brethren’s expositions on this matter with their ample personal exp if any.

  45. What Does It Mean to Receive the Holy Spirit?
    Resource by John Piper Scripture: Acts 8:14–17 Topic: The Holy Spirit
    Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit; for it had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.
    Were the Samaritans Already Converted?
    This passage raises the question of whether the Pentecostal understanding of the baptism in the Holy Spirit has a good basis here. What I mean by the Pentecostal understanding of the baptism of the Holy Spirit is simply the view that there is a definite experience of the Holy Spirit to be sought and enjoyed after conversion that is different from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which starts when we first believe, and that this second experience is signified by speaking in tongues. There have been many non-Pentecostals who agree that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is a distinct second experience but not necessarily accompanied by tongues. For example, A.J. Gordon, Reuben A. Torrey, Dwight L. Moody, Charles Finney, etc.

    Those who believe that there is a distinct second experience use this passage in Acts 8 to support their position. The Samaritans seem to be already converted—that’s the first experience—and yet there is an experience of the Holy Spirit that they don’t have—that’s the second experience. Verse 15 says that Peter and John came down from Jerusalem and “prayed for [the Samaritans] that they might receive the Holy Spirit; for it had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” So it is obvious they are missing something. The Spirit has not “fallen on them.” They have not “received” him.

    But in spite of this lack, they seem to be genuine believers. Not everyone agrees with this. Since James Dunn’s book, Baptism in the Holy Spirit, many now think that the Samaritans were not true believers before Peter and John came down to pray for them. There are good arguments on both sides, some suggesting that the Samaritans were not yet true believers, and some suggesting that they were.

    Clues That They Were
    For example, here are some clues that make it look like they are indeed true believers.

    In verse 6 it says that they “gave heed to what was said by Philip.” That same phrase is used in Acts 16:14 where it says about Lydia, “The Lord opened her heart to give heed to what was said by Paul.” So giving heed to what a gospel preacher says seems to be something that is genuine because it is possible because the Lord opens the heart to make it happen. So it looks like the Samaritans really were giving heartfelt heed to the preaching of Philip.
    Verse 8 says they were experiencing much joy, like the Ethiopian eunuch after his conversion (8:39).
    Verse 12a says they “believed Philip as he preached the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ.”
    Verse 16 says that they were baptized in the name of Jesus. And when the apostles came down to lay hands on them, there is no mention that they baptized them again, even though Paul re-baptized the disciples who only knew the baptism of John in Acts 19:5.
    All this suggests that the Samaritans were true believers when Peter and John came down to lay hands on them to receive the Holy Spirit. This was the view of John Calvin and Matthew Henry and Henry Alford and most commentators until recently.

    Therefore many teachers conclude that this event here in Acts 8 is an illustration, just like Pentecost, that there is a definite receiving of the Holy Spirit to be experienced after conversion. And many identify this with the baptism in the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:5; 11:16).

    Clues That They Were Not
    There are three reasons that other commentators think the Samaritans were not true believers when Peter and John came down from Jerusalem:

    Verse 12a says that the Samaritans “believed Philip” instead of believing the gospel or believing in Christ.
    Simon the sorcerer is also said to believe (v. 13) and yet we saw last week that he was not a true believer (v. 21—”you have neither part nor lot in this matter”).
    If we assume the Samaritans do not have the Holy Spirit in any sense, then Romans 8:9 proves they are not Christians: “Any one who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.”
    If these arguments are compelling, then what Peter and John were praying for when they came down from Jerusalem was not a second work of the Holy Spirit, but the first work of converting grace. This is the view of Anthony Hoekema (Tongues and Spirit-Baptism) and James Dunn.

    Some Suggest These Events Aren’t Normative
    Many interpreters would say that even if the Samaritans were already true believers and the Holy Spirit was given in two stages, this was not meant to be normative for all Christians. Instead it was an exceptional pattern so that (for example) the Jewish apostles would come down to Samaria and signify by their laying on of hands that there is oneness between the Samaritan and Jewish church in spite of age old hostilities between Jews and Samaritans.

    How Is Receiving the Holy Spirit Portrayed in Acts?
    Now what are we to make of all this? It can get very confusing. The approach I want to take this morning is this: I want to come at this issue of the baptism with the Holy Spirit indirectly by asking what we can say with a good deal of certainty about receiving the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts.

    Experientially Not Just Inferentially Known

    I would start by saying that in the book of Acts everywhere the receiving of the Holy Spirit is described, it is experiential. What I mean is that it’s not just a logical inference that you know has happened to you only because something else has happened. Instead it has effects that are clearly discernible. In the book of Acts a person knows when he receives the Holy Spirit. It is an experience with effects you can point to.

    Let me illustrate this from Acts 19:2. The situation is that Paul has come to Ephesus and found there some disciples who, as it turns out, only know the baptism of John the Baptist and have not been baptized into the name of Jesus. Paul detects something wrong and breaks the whole thing open by asking a key question in verse 2: “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”

    Now that is a remarkable question for contemporary American evangelicals who have been taught by and large that the way you know you have received the Holy Spirit is that you are a believer. We have been told that you can know that you have the Holy Spirit because all who believe have the Holy Spirit. It’s a logical inference. So if we want to know if someone has received the Holy Spirit, we would ask, “Have you believed on Jesus?” If the answer is yes, then we know the person received the Holy Spirit. Receiving the Holy Spirit is a logical inference, not an experience to point to.

    But Paul’s question isn’t like that, is it? Paul says, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” We scratch our heads and say, “I don’t get it, Paul. If you assume we believed, why don’t you assume we received the Holy Spirit? We’ve been taught that all who believe receive the Holy Spirit. We’ve been taught to just believe that the Spirit is there whether there are any effects or not. But you talk as if there is a way to know we’ve received the Holy Spirit different from believing. You talk as if we could point to an experience of the Spirit apart from believing in order to answer your question.”

    And that is in fact the way Paul talks. When he asks, “Did you receive the Spirit when you believed,” he expects that a person who has “received the Holy Spirit” knows it, not just because it’s an inference from his faith in Christ, but because it is an experience with effects that we can point to.

    That is what runs all the way through this book of Acts. All the explicit descriptions of receiving the Holy Spirit are experiential (not inferential).

    Luke’s Ways of Describing the Coming of the Spirit

    It’s possible to sum up all Luke’s ways of describing the coming of the Holy Spirit. There are seven words or phrases. He speaks of

    the Holy Spirit being given to people (as a gift)—8:18; 5:32; 15:8 (as we); 11:17 (gift: 2:38; 8:20; 10:45; 11:17);
    the Holy Spirit falling upon people—8:16; 10:44; 11:15 (as we, pointing back to Pentecost);
    the Holy Spirit coming upon people—1:8; 19:6;
    the Holy Spirit being poured out on people—2:17f.; 10:45;
    people receiving the Holy Spirit—2:38; 8:15,17; 10:47 (as we, pointing back to Pentecost);
    being baptized in the Holy Spirit—1:5; 11:16 (as we);
    being filled with the Holy Spirit—2:4; 9:17.
    All these ways of describing the coming of the Holy Spirit are found in six stories or instances in the book of Acts and in every one the coming of the Spirit is with experienced effects.

    At Pentecost there was speaking in tongues and praising the mighty works of God and power to witness (1:8; 2:4, 11);
    in Samaria there is something so obvious in experience that Simon saw it and is amazed and wants to buy the power to make it happen (8:18);
    in Caesarea at the house of Cornelius there was speaking in tongues and praising God (10:46);
    in Ephesus where Paul found the disciples of John the Baptist there was speaking in tongues and prophesying (19:6);
    at Paul’s conversion there is extraordinary boldness and empowering to witness (9:17, 22);
    and in Acts 5:32 Luke says that God “gave the Holy Spirit to everyone who is obeying him.” So obedience to God is a mark of his presence.
    Luke Expects a Real, Identifiable Experience
    So in every case of the Holy Spirit’s coming or being received in the book of Acts there are definite effects that one can point to as evidence that the Spirit has been received. The ones mentioned are speaking in tongues, prophesying, freely praising the great things of God, boldness and power in witness, and obedience to God. And if we take the subsequent empowering of the Spirit into account after the initial one, the list would, of course, include the working of miracles, signs, and wonders (Acts 6:8, 13:9–11).

    The point is this: whether Luke expects these kinds of effects to happen in one initiatory receiving of the Holy Spirit or in a two step process with “baptism in the Holy Spirit” after conversion, or in an ongoing sequence of fillings (or some combination of these three), one thing is clear: Luke expects the receiving of the Holy Spirit (however we receive him) to be a real, identifiable experience of the living God, not just a logical inference from a human act of will.

    Power for Evangelizing the World

    And we can say more about this experience. There is no promise in the book of Acts that everyone who receives the Spirit will speak in tongues or prophesy. But there is the promise in Acts 1:8 that when the Spirit comes upon us, we will receive power; and in this power we will be able to evangelize the whole world. That promise is made to everybody on whom the Holy Spirit comes, not just a few.

    Then what we see in the book of Acts are illustrations of what this power looks like as it comes on different groups. It comes with speaking in tongues for some (2:4; 10:46; 19:6). It comes with the gift of prophecy for some (2:17; 19:6; cf. 10:46). It comes with free and overflowing praise of God’s greatness (2:11; 10:46). It comes with obedience to the commands of God (5:32). It comes with courage and boldness of witness (2:14–36; 9:17–22). And it brings the working of various gifts (Hebrews 2:4), and miracles (Galatians 3:5), and signs and wonders (Acts 6:8).

    Did You Receive the Holy Spirit When You Believed?
    But however it comes, it is an experience of divine reality. It is not just an idea about our spiritual condition that we infer from a decision we have made. It is supernatural. You can use it to answer the question, “Did you receive the Spirit when you believed?”

    You can say,

    Yes, I have seen the Spirit of obedience at work in my life subduing sin and inclining me to acts of love.
    Yes, I have seen the Spirit of praise in my life filling my heart and mouth with worship to Jesus and God the Father.
    Yes, I have seen the Spirit of courage at work in my life overcoming fear and giving me a will to risk things for the cause of Christ.
    And yes, even though I know that speaking in tongues and the gift of prophecy are no sure sign of God’s grace, yet together with other evidences they too are a precious evidence that the power of God is on me.
    But if you can’t answer the question this morning, “Did you receive the Spirit when you believed?” then it may be that you have not believed and need to as we close this service. Or it may be that for some reason there has been a delay or a blockage in the manifestation of God’s power in your life, and you need to seek his fullness in prayer. Or it may be that he is doing more in your life than you realize because you have never been taught how to recognize what is the work of God.

    In any of these three cases, I urge you to pray as this service closes. Declare your faith to the Lord; ask for the release and outpouring of the Holy Spirit in your life; ask for the ability to discern his work. Amen.

    John Piper (@JohnPiper) is founder and teacher of desiringGod.org and chancellor of Bethlehem College & Seminary. For 33 years, he served as pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church, Minneapolis, Minnesota. He is author of more than 50 books, including Desiring God: Meditations of a Christian Hedonist and most recently Coronavirus and Christ.

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  46. If some one talks about– will of DECREE and will of COMMAND we can better cross check up with Jesus .

    If you are going through a time of isolation, seemingly all alone, read John 17 .

    It will explain exactly ,why you are —where you are— because Jesus has prayed that you “may be one” with the Father as He is.

    My own conscience asks me “Are you helping God to answer that prayer, or do you have some other goal for your life? Since you became a disciple, you cannot be as independent as you used to be.”
    God reveals in John 17 that His purpose is not just to answer our prayers, but that through prayer we might come to discern His mind. Yet there is one prayer which God must answer, and that is the prayer of Jesus— “…that they may be one just as We are one…” (John 17:22).
    Are we as close to Jesus Christ as that?
    God is not concerned about our plans;
    He doesn’t ask, “Do you want to go through this loss of a loved one, this difficulty, or this defeat?”
    No, He allows these things for His own purpose.
    The things we are going through are either making us sweeter, better, and nobler men and women, or they are making us more critical and fault-finding, and more insistent on our own way.
    The things that happen either make us evil, or they make us more saintly, depending entirely on our relationship with God and its level of intimacy.
    If we will pray, regarding our own lives, “Your will be done” (Matthew 26:42), then we will be encouraged and comforted by John 17, knowing that our Father is working according to His own wisdom, accomplishing what is best.
    When we understand God’s purpose, we will not become small-minded and cynical. Jesus prayed nothing less for us than absolute oneness with Himself, just as He was one with the Father. Some of us are far from this oneness; yet God will not leave us alone until we are one with Him— because Jesus prayed, “…that they all may be one….”
    This is the oneness of spirit and oneness of truth that we can stick so that God always comforts us when we become weary through some of the dear one’s exhortations.

  48. Thank you so much for your boldness to share your testimony. I will no longer be attending this cult that almost destroyed my family and a dear family member almost committed suicide because of the constant torment of not dressing the right way and not praying loud enough, etc…
    I know that I will be mocked and judge for leaving but I’ve never felt so free in my life. God is faithful!

  49. The New Testament Church only gives A PLATFORM for ministers to serve God in the Apostolic way of the Early Church. It is not flawless and is not opposed to reform. The comments this dear sister has made may all be true and needing reform, but I was wondering why she’s so explicit about the faults of others and tells us none or very few of her own. It’s easy to hide behind a fake name and blast people for wrongs done to you, but why was it such a shock to the believers and even ministers when you left? Would it be right to assume that you are just as much of a hypocrite as the others you accuse?
    May I ask you a few questions?
    How many hours did you spend in Bible Study and prayer, on your own with no one “forcing” you?
    How many hours did you spend in entertainment and activities that would be shameful if your believers knew or true servants of God knew?
    Did you exercise self-control in your eating habits and other self-disciplines?
    How many suitcases of clothes did you have by the time you decided to leave?
    Are you able to “rightly divide the Word of truth” after pouring over your Bible more than your necessary food?
    None of these questions has to do with others – it’s about how much YOU lived the life of selflessness and consecration you portrayed to your fellow ministers and the believers in your church. From what I read, no one stopped you from living totally for Jesus. It seems like you decided that since others weren’t living as they should, you chose not to live as you should. Oppression is devastating, I don’t deny that. But, true Christians flourish under oppression as they receive life from The Vine.
    Why don’t you admit the truth and stop hiding behind a fake name? No one would despise you for being a REAL Christian who speaks the WHOLE TRUTH in love.
    Disclaimer: I use a fake name because I’m writing on a fake truth website. I’m only posting this comment to make others realize that there’s more to this story than just what’s written here.

    • @Just Fake

      ///I’m only posting this comment to make others realize that there’s more to this story than just what’s written here.///

      Hey Buddy, can we have the rest of your side of the story so that we can all be enlightened and not be mislead by this fake site and then come back to the true lies of the not so fake apostles of TPM/NTC/UPC/NCPC/CPM/TPS/A2Z.

    • @ Just Fake:

      // It is not flawless and is not opposed to reform.//

      If you accept that your church is NOT flawless and is not opposed to reform, then why do you get so annoyed when your church’s flaws are brought to light, and that too from none other than a clergy sister who served your church for 12 long years? Is this not an opportunity to set right things and reform your church? Your statement doesn’t appear to be sincere and contradicts the rest of your comment! You, like the rest of us on this forum, know well that your church is dead opposed to reforms.

      // The comments this dear sister has made may all be true and needing reform, but I was wondering why she’s so explicit about the faults of others and tells us none or very few of her own. It’s easy to hide behind a fake name and blast people for wrongs done to you, but…//

      Just like me and so many others on this forum, you too seem to agree that the comments made by this sister may all be true and that your church needs to be reformed. But then, why are you upset that she’s so explicit about the faults of others? How else can a reform happen in your church if the faults are not clearly spelt out in an unmistakable way? After all, isn’t she very dignified to have not exposed the names of the people involved?

      You are accusing that sister of hiding behind a fake name and blasting people for wrongs done to her. Even if she had revealed her identity, you would still accuse her that she acted against your dear church. A similar testimony by another ex-clergy brother of your church, Teju Robin, appeared on this website in two parts on the 28th and 31st of December 2019. You may read Teju Robin’s testimony by following the below links:
      https://www.stas-afke.com/blog/2019/12/28/escaping-trap-tpm-1/
      https://www.stas-afke.com/blog/2019/12/31/escaping-from-the-trap-of-tpm-2/

      Even though Teju Robin has very clearly provided his identity, as well as named all his abusers in his testimony, there was yet no corrective action or reform in your church as a follow-up measure. On the contrary, your church clergy only threatened him of dire consequences for exposing them. There were also many accusers like you in his testimony’s comments section.

      It hardly matters whether someone writes with their real name or chooses to write with their pseudonym, deluded people like you will still continue to accuse them as fakes, rejecting the message they want to convey.

      This website’s intent is not to bring about a reform in your church (which is impossible), but to enlighten and deliver at least a few deceived ones (both clergy and laity) trapped in your fake church, and direct them towards the truth.

    • @ Just Fake
      /I was wondering why she’s so explicit about the faults of others and tells us none or very few of her own. /
      You’ve totally missed my point here.
      Every organization has rules in place for its proper functioning. TPM/NTC organization runs by many laws, but only for the subordinates. I don’t know of any laws that are in place to protect the subordinates from the human nature of dominance. Unconditional submission is demanded of the junior servants of God, which is hazardous to the physical and emotional health of any human being. I’ve witnessed both mental and physical breakdown of servants of God as they do not have the liberty to rightfully voice their opinions. This is contrary to the nature of God.

      /It’s easy to hide behind a fake name and blast people for wrongs done to you, but why was it such a shock to the believers and even ministers when you left? Would it be right to assume that you are just as much of a hypocrite as the others you accuse?/
      I can only speak from my experience. I did not mean to appear self righteous by blasting others for their wrong. I only intended to point out the error in leadership. In my tenor in NTC, I humbled myself and submitted to leadership. I was very open with my life as well. However, I found out that the leadership was unwilling to bring about a reform in very obvious and grievous errors. In fact, right before I left, I spoke about my concerns with the head sister. She responded to me by pointing out how Samuel ignored the faults of Eli’s sons and so I was told to ignore the faults in leadership. Not only to ignore but to cover the faults in leadership just like Noah’s sons walked backward with the garment and covered their father’s nakedness. I believe this is a poor example as Noah cannot be equated to leadership of an entire organization. If we are honest with ourselves, can we really ignore and cover the sins of the leadership and be guiltless before God? Aren’t we supporting their wrong doings? Aren’t we promoting their agenda by our unconditional submission as their junior servants? Aren’t we deceiving your believers by uniting ourselves in wrong doing? How many junior servants are suffering oppression at this very moment?

      /From what I read, no one stopped you from living totally for Jesus. It seems like you decided that since others weren’t living as they should, you chose not to live as you should./
      How can I live totally for Jesus when unconditional submission to human beings and their agenda is demanded of me? I know for sure that even the headquarters will not support me if I chose to obey God more than man.

      /Oppression is devastating, I don’t deny that. But, true Christians flourish under oppression as they receive life from The Vine.
      Why don’t you admit the truth and stop hiding behind a fake name? No one would despise you for being a REAL Christian who speaks the WHOLE TRUTH in love./
      True Christians flourish under oppression for the sake of the gospel but not under hypocrisy. Jesus turned the tables in the temple and spoke fiercely against the hypocrisy of the religious leaders. True Christians expose hypocrisy fearlessly, especially when it’s in leadership, as it affects so many others and not just themselves. Jesus said “They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.” Matt 23:4

      Finally, evaluate the whole structure of TPM in the light of these verses…

      Matthew 20:25-28
      25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
      26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
      27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
      28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

      Now please tell me who is the CEO of your organization? Is your organization established on the principles of Jesus? Is your organization really a platform to serve as the early apostles did? As far as I know from scriptures, the apostles did not sit in faith homes and demand to be served.

      I don’t blame you for defending your organization because I did the same until I could no longer pretend to be ignorant. Please forgive me if I hurt your sentiments but truth must be contended for.

      • Well said sister. Appreciate your grace in writing such a detailed response to a very irritating set of queries. Hope God will have mercy on the recipient and open his eyes to The Truth so that they can also be set free from this evil TPM delusion. Praise Godl

  50. @Just fake,
    I see why different ones have left NTC and I’m glad different ones can post and see their TRUE COLORS.Is this how a Christian should respond? It’s obvious there is anger in how you wrote your post. It is hard to comprehend the mentally of people that have not stepped into other people’s shoes. I backup the sister minister that left, 100%! I know what goes on in a lot of these Faith homes because I would spend days and sometimes weeks during the summer. I was a little girl but I remember a lot of things and now as an adult I understand those things were not right. I’m praying for God to make a way for more ministers and believers to leave NTC.

  51. @Just fake on…Your first two statements are such outright lies that it needs to pointed out specifically.
    Quoting your statement “The New Testament Church only gives A PLATFORM for ministers to serve God in the Apostolic way of the Early Church. It is not flawless and is not opposed to reform”.
    Can you please point out which ‘Apostolic way of the early church’ you are referring to?
    The early apostles, including Paul, all worked or labored with their hands for their sustainence. Paul was a tent maker (Acts 18:3) and they all went about daily preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ.
    Contrast that with the majority of NTC ministers who live quite luxuriously with peoples “tithe” money, serving their own bellies, and teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
    (Let me just cite one example to illustrate- there are NTC and TPM minsiters who boldly teach that children will not be taken in the rapture as they are not part of the body of Christ untill they take baptism! Even though there is nothing like that mentioned in the Bible that I read, quite contrary, Jesus said to forbid not children coming to Him).
    Your second statement that NTC is not opposed to reform is an outright lie. No doctrine in NTC/UPC/TPM/CPM is open to reform and even former Chief Pastors have tried and failed miserably at this. Is there any platform in NTC (or its affiliate) churches to voice opinions or to point out unbiblical doctrines preached and practiced? Or is there one where believers or ministers can voice concerns regarding misconduct or injustices done? The fact that a large number of youths, and believers and a few ministers leave every year is an open statement that nothing has changed or will ever change in their system. When leaders are voiceless and toothless against injustice in their churches, it speaks volumes on how open the church is towards “reform”.
    N.B- You are right that church is not flawless, but most NTC/TPM ministers won’t agree with you on that. Every church has flaws but recognizing it and addressing it is the first step. When you have leaders who think and preach that they’re perfect and the church is perfect, that is a perfectly flawed church.
    I rest my case.

    • Br Vargis

      Your comments are quite right and agreeable.

      No one with an objective mind will disagree.

      TPM is NOT a church. I repeat. It is NOT a church.

      I think we can all agree that the church of God is the sum total of all people who believe in him, accept his son Jesus Christ as their personal saviour and subscribe to his teachings and live by the grace of God and the divine guidance of the Holy Spirit.

      My view is that everything else is man made.

      TPM, just like any other organization that is called a “church”, is merely that – an organization.
      They have different shapes and forms in different parts of the world.
      In some places they are legally registered as charities, in some places as “churches” according to the local definition and in other places just a loose gathering of people who come together under the banner of TPM/NTC or whatever it is called there.

      In order to be truly saved, one must be free of the bonds of all man-made structures – physical, social and psychological.

      The problem with most people is that their faith is not strong enough for them to pray and seek God without the intervention of another person.

      Human beings are born with an inherent need to belong to something, someone or a group.
      We are born to flock together with others who share similar beliefs, interests, tastes, etc.

      I don’t understand why people are so hung up on clinging to changing something that does not or will not change.

      Christ said “Seek ye first the kingdom of God….”. He did not say “Seek ye first the anointed apostles….”.

      Christ said “I am the way and the truth and the life.”
      He did not say “XYZ church is the way….”

      No apostle of Christ in the New Testament said anything to the contrary.

      Questioning and seeking answers are perfectly righteous things to do.

      At the same time, if the answers one gets do not concur with the plain scripture then one must be ready to walk away.

      One can’t sit in the mud, be covered in it and then complain about it.

      If anyone has any doubt about the value or veracity of TPM’s teachings and actions, then they must have the courage to walk.

      Have faith. God will guide.

      Be secure in your faith and don’t let your faith be dictated by any man.

  52. @Vik

    Very nicely said but on a personal level, do you have any doubt about the value or veracity of TPM’s teachings and actions?

    I surely had doubts and did walk away, Praise God for giving me the courage to do so.

    • I’m quite secure in my faith.

      I question privately, get answers and act privately for my own soul’s sake.

      My faith in God has not been shaken enough to walk away.
      At the same time, I am not attached enough to TPM or any such entity to have any withdrawal symptoms.

      I joined the debates because I enjoy serious discussion and would like to hear other points of view.

      There is no expectation that you must agree with me.

      You are free to have your own opinion and live your own life.

      But we can learn from each other.

      Take the good. Discard the bad. Live your life and prepare for the kingdom of heaven.

      This site has helped me understand a lot of things and listen to other perspectives.

      I don’t agree with everything, but I come back hoping to find another morsel of good information.

      I am shocked to hear of the adventures of some of the people who have been named and shamed on this site.

      However, the presentation of the same has been quite sensationalist.
      It reminds me of some click baiting techniques seen on the internet.

      I understand the motivation, but do not agree with the methods.

      I may have mocked some of the commentators, but it was not intended to be offensive.

      Their frustrations are quite evident and TPM does not help the situation, but aggravates it through a lack of vision and foresight.

      However, that is not for me to change.

  53. Thanks Vik,

    Is it possible to give me an objective type answer to my question-
    ///do you have any doubt about the value or veracity of TPM’s teachings and actions?///

    1.Yes
    2.No

      • ok, let us start with one –

        Do you agree with TPM’s teaching that their consecrated servants will go to Zion while the believers will only go to New Jerusalem?

        • @ Vik,
          Thank you for answering my first question…

          Do you agree with TPM’s teaching that their consecrated servants will go to Zion while the believers will only go to New Jerusalem?

          Vik Answered – No

          Now next question to Vik,

          Question 2. Do you agree with TPM’s teaching that the 144,000 in Revelations are TPM workers?

          a)Yes

          b)No

  54. @Vik G”No one with objective mind will disagree”
    TPM is NOT a church I repeat is NOT a church”……….

    I have been ardently reading the mind of bro Vik G and tried to understand his motives and intentions while he was commenting.I valued his comments that he wrote in most of of all 420+ articles that this blessed website brought forth.But somewhere deep down within me told me that this brother would not accept to the crux of the issues that this site has been raising all along.

  55. I had been following this site for a couple of years from now
    But when I read Vik G comments,really I applauded his comments he made on bro Vargis on 25 July that……… ” No one with an objective mind will disagree.TPM is NOT a church. I repeat. It is NOT a church.”
    I gave my first thumbs up to his comment.So far never once did I give to his any of his comments. That means one can find now that this site has brought a change,an unbelievable change of stance in his approach that he held so far about this site. I am happy about it.
    I realise now Bro Vik G was not the same old brother,

  56. Brother Vik G,

    I have a specific question.

    Do you think there are two categories of people inside the church like TPM nomenclature of Visudhan and Viswasi? If so, kindly provide clear scriptural backing.

    Moreover, if there are two categories as claimed by TPM, do you think that these so called viswasikal will go to heaven? Again, please provide some scriptural support for the claim.

    If not, will you agree that this categorisation of TPM is fully devilish?

  57. Since Bob (NMASTF), EE and Franklin have raised questions similar to each other, I PROPOSE my views on all three as follows.

    From my limited knowledge, the word “saint” only appears in the New Testament and my understanding is that the apostles do not specifically define who is and who is not a saint.

    It is left to the discernment of the reader to interpret that.

    However, the apostles seem to imply “saints” as a broad category and from my discussions with TPM workers, I am led to believe that anyone who displays holy behavior.

    Holiness is not defined by dress code and lifestyle choices alone.
    (Dress code and lifestyle choices may be a manifestation of holiness)

    The definition of “holy” is up for discussion.
    I believe that the only definition that counts is the one God, as Peter reminds us “Be ye holy; for I am holy”.

    Man’s definition of “holy” will always fall short of God’s, because he is not perfect.

    God is the standard of “holiness” and the Lord Jesus Christ is the standard bearer.

    We are encouraged to be like him.

    Any differentiations made by men are absolutely wrong.

    Neither does man have the authority to judge his fellow man, nor does he have the right to decide who goes where.

    I am still unclear on the concept of the different places in heaven, but one thing is for sure – no man gets to decide that.

    As the apostle John summarizes in the final chapter of Revelation:

    11: He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

    Just as the Lord revealed things to John, so shall he reveal them to all that seek his kingdom.
    The verse says “let him be… ” which implies let the unjust and filthy remain so.
    It is not because they have not heard the word of God, but rather they may have heard and chosen not to heed it.

    12: And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

    The Lord says that His reward is for every man according to his/her work.
    He does not say that there are categories of rewards based on your language, caste, costume or lifestyle.

    In summary, each person must work towards his/her own salvation and place in the kingdom of heaven.

    TPM pastors/elders may choose to preach their own revelation which may disagree with me, but that is their choice.

    Is it grounds for me to leave the fellowship of TPM?

    The simple answer is “No”.

    I take what I can understand, try to understand the rest and seek the grace and wisdom of God to do the right thing.

    You can point to those who have been accused of various illicitness and ask “what about all that?”.

    To that I say that I choose not to have fellowship with such people.

    Do I label all people as “bad” because a few are so?

    Even God promised Abraham that if there were 10 righteous people in Sodom and Gomorrah, he would not destroy it.

    When the adulteress was brought before Christ to be stoned, He did not repeal the law of Moses.
    But rather He simply asked the crowd to look inside and decide if they were sinless enough to judge and execute a sinner.

    Similarly, judgement is God’s divine right.
    Who are we to take that away from Him?

    At the same time, forgiveness is a holy trait.

    If presented with situations such as those that are presented on this site (the purported sins of TPM pastors), what would Christ have said/done?

    Would he have forgiven or stoned them?

    Isn’t “holiness” all about being Christ-like in our thoughts and actions?

  58. I rest my case Vik, I give up as you can never give an objective answer to a simple question. Thank God, we have a God who doesn’t give up on us. May He have mercy on all.

    Have a great day!

    • I think I clearly answered it when I said that no one gets to decide where anyone else goes.

      That decision rests with God alone.

      If you agree with that then it does not matter what anyone teaches (including TPM).

      BTW, to give you some satisfaction of a “Yes/No” answer, I disagree with anyone who says that Zion (as it is preached) is reserved for a specific group as defined by human criteria.

      I think that is an arrogant and self-serving statement.

      I personally know some TPM pastors who choose not to preach the concept of Zion because they simply do not believe it to be as it is made out to be.

      We all know of how Christ was crucified between two thieves.
      In the eyes of the world they were both thieves and therefore sentenced to death by crucifixion.

      One of the thieves was promised paradise by the Lord.

      Brother Franklin has inspired me to quote from 2 Thessalonians:
      3. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

      8. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

      Why are you worried about what anyone teaches?
      The Lord shall consume them “with the spirit of his mouth” and destroy them with the “brightness of his coming”.

      The Lord God has said that vengeance is His and He will destroy those that seek to harm His people.

      In the numerous battles that the children of Israel faced in the old testament, on many occasions they were advised to “stand still” and witness the glory of God.

      I believe that in the same way, we too must address the powers of darkness in the same way.
      Rather than relying on our own wisdom and understanding, we must make way for the grace and spirit of God to work in us and through us.

      If you believe that certain teachings are wrong, then pray for them and finally “stand still” and let God do this work.

      Just as the Lord Jesus Christ was nuanced in his responses to the questions of the pharisees, so must my responses to your questions be nuanced.

      I am not here to defend or destroy any person or organization.

      If you have a calling to seek and spread the truth then all power to you.
      But let your calling be pure and laced with the love of God.

      • //Brother Franklin has inspired me to quote from 2 Thessalonians:
        3. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

        8. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

        Why are you worried about what anyone teaches?
        The Lord shall consume them “with the spirit of his mouth” and destroy them with the “brightness of his coming”.//

        This is a classical TPM style of thinking. Plucking verses out of context to apply for your argument which has a different destination. Had Vik even bothered to read the first verse of this chapter, he would not have erred. The first verse clearly speaks about the coming of our Lord and our Rapture. Paul is attacking the heresy of nascent PRE-TRIB Rapture theory.
        But Vik has got his substance from this to say we should not be worried about False teachers. WOW….
        His Spiritual DNA has undergone so much of alterations that, he can quote passages like this for his PASSIVE and INDIFFERENT ATTITUDE. He might also end up thinking that Paul is so stupid to write an epistle to counter false teaching. Paul Should have “Stood Still” according to VIK Theory.
        What happened to Romans 16:17-18 , Ephesians 5:11,2 Corinthians 11:13-15,Colossians 2:8, 2 Timothy 4:3-4,1 John 4:1,Galatians 1:6-9,Matthew 7:15,2 Peter 2:1,Jude 1:4, 1 Timothy 4:1, 1 Timothy 5:20, Matthew 7:15-20, 1 Thessalonians 5:21, Rev 2:2 and many more…………?????

        • I presume you, sir, have taken up the mantle of the apostle Paul.

          While that is admirable and a worthy cause, the difference between you and Paul is that he did not use mockery and insults to get his point across.

          He did not incite others to mockery and insult.

          And Paul did not hide behind the curtain of the first century internet and.

          He started most of his epistles identifying himself.

          Perhaps you should emulate Paul in that respect as well, instead of hiding and spewing venom at anyone who disagrees with you or has another point of view.

          You can mock these comments as well and come up with all sorts of ripostes, which is the best that is expected of you.

        • Oh really? Paul did not mock/insult these buffoons?
          Please read it. Acts 23:3
          Shall I start right from Elijah mocking the prophets of Baal or Start with New Testament where CHRIST CALLS THE PHARISEES BY THE HOLY WORD OF WHITED SEPULCHRES?

  59. Brother Vik G,

    I asked you a specific question. Like all the other brainwashed TPM fanatics you too tried to evade the fact by beating around the bush.

    The answer could have been a straight yes or no. But, I think since I have requested for scriptural support, you have decided to do your own theology.

    Deliberately I used the word VISUDHAN (instead of saint) and VISWASI which you are very much familiar than many of us in this site. This type of brazen attitude inside the church by dividing the congregation itself is for the glorification of VELLA MUNDUDUTHA (white lungi clad) frauds which these lame VISWASIKAL can’t comprehend. Being a deluded VISWASI as mentioned in 2 Thess.2:11-12, you wanted to support your VISUDHAN overtly or covertly.

    I have gone through the New Testament with the intention to find out whether 2 such categories as preached by TPM are mentioned anywhere or not. What I understand is that only one category is mentioned, ie, VISUDHANMAR. VISUDHANMAR according to the prerogative of GOD only will go to heaven, no VISWASI will go to heaven because all the people in this world have VISWASAM, be it a Hindu or a Muslim, Catholic or even an atheist.

    2 categories can be VISDUHANMAR and ASUDHANMAR. Bible gives enough proof, evidence and features of ASUDHANMAR. Hence my humble request is, try to be a part of VISUDHANMAR instead of retaining the citizenship of VISWASI.

    2 Thessalonians 2:11-12, “11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie, 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.” (NIV)

    May GOD bless you.

    • Franklin

      I take offense to your clubbing me with whatever you called “TPM fanatics”.

      To clarify, I am well versed enough in the vernacular to be able to tell the difference between what you call “VISUDHAN” and “VISUDHANMAR”.

      My only position on this matter is that no man gets to decide another man’s fate.

      I am not here to argue who is right and who is wrong.

      That is not for me to decide.

      Each person can decide for himself/herself.

      If you are going to end your comments with “May GOD bless you.” then try and ensure that your entire message is not insulting or derogatory.

      That would make for a civil discourse.

  60. Brother Vik G,

    I am also very well aware that you know the difference between a VISUDHAN and a VISWASI. For me everyone who does not heed the bible and twist the scripture for their own justification of indoctrination is a “TPM Fanatic”, moreover who doesn’t “stand still” for the scripture.

    Ok, then what is the difference between a VISUDHAN and a VISWASI? Because these two words are frequently used by members of TPM church.

    Do you want all the people including the admin of this site to “stand still” so that all vulgarities, promiscuous activities and other abominable demeanours taking place inside the fake home won’t come to the light so that future of all the so called VISUDHANMAR will be secured.

    //The Lord shall consume them “with the spirit of his mouth” and destroy them with the “brightness of his coming”.// Are you trying to put blame on GOD for all immoral acts taking place in this universe including inside TPM fake homes. Can you show me from New Testament some such deeds of GOD like you have mentioned here because I didn’t find any such incident. GOD is using people like you, me, ADMIN and others to expose the fruits of darkness.

    You may be very well aware of the words used by Paul against Elymas, Acts 13:10, “ഹേ സകലകപടവും സകല ധൂർത്തും നിറഞ്ഞവനേ, പിശാചിന്റെ മകനേ, സർവ നീതിയുടെയും ശത്രുവേ, കർത്താവിന്റെ നേർവഴികളെ മറിച്ചുകളയുന്നത് നീ മതിയാക്കുകയില്ലയോ?”

    I end with May God bless you with the sincere intention of not to be part of Hosea 4:6, “My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. “Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests; because you have ignored the law of your God, I also will ignore your children.”

    May GOD bless you.

  61. By making distinction between VISUDHAN and VISWASI, TPM clearly playing the mind game that the man made controls are above the Biblical Teachings.No where do we find any scriptural reference to such class distinction.
    On the contrary Bible says in 1 Peter 2:9 as chosen race,a royal priesthood,a holy nation, God’s own people”. By reading’ God’s own people’, we don’t see any no class distinction as devised by TPM. So long as the believer community do not open up their minds and hearts,and read the word of God,this BEAST continues to cash in the ignorant attitude and thrive on.The sad part of the story is even well educated refuge to believe what is written in the WORD.
    Thank God,COVID 19 has stepped in and brought plenty of time for those who claim that they don’t find time to read the WORD.Even the gullible believers can thoroughly search for the Scriptures than simply rely on the CULT made gimmicks of twisting and coining those words.
    Its time for the believers come out of the clutches of this darkness of VISUDHAN and VISWASI.

  62. Franklin

    I made an error in my last comment.
    I meant to say that I was not well versed enough in the language to know the difference between the two words.
    Since then I have been able to seek the advice of those who are and now understand what you mean.

    Why are you and others obsessed with someone else’s definition of these words?

    You ardently quote the scriptures and rightly so.

    Why don’t you keep doing that and go your way instead of obsessing over TPM and its fanatics?

    I’m sure you can find lots of people who have not been exposed to the word of God, to whom you can expound the word and possibly guide them to salvation – as we all ought to do.

    Instead of trying to point out the immoralities of TPM, perhaps you should try and preach the gospel to the “gentiles” of this world.

    I’m sure there is more fish in the oceans of the world, than in the ponds of TPM.

    Don’t you think your life will be more blessed by gaining some new souls for the kingdom of heaven?

    Let the fanatics believe what they choose to believe.

    May God bless you too!

    • Hi Vik G
      //Instead of trying to point out the immoralities of TPM, perhaps you should try and preach the gospel to the “gentiles” of this world.//
      You should know, many soul in TPMites end up in HELL FIRE, because they are following wrong doctrine and man made laws and put Jesus as a secondary. Not helping poor and needy… helping this rich TPM SOG and making them to Forget GOD. Because their BELLY is their LIFE.
      This is not the Ministry of JESUS teach us.
      God don’t want to distroy … He send these messengers weaking up from our sleeping state SOG and Believers.
      You think if Joshua adventures life style didn’t comes out, he will countinue his ways, You think what is going to happened in Singapore church??. This is lesson for many SOG not to do like this kind of Abominable adventures.
      You must appreciate someone bringing you back to right way..
      JESUS said I AM THE WAY, TRUTH and LIFE.
      At the end we are all going to be with the LORD. They is no denomination…
      Only RIGHTOUS and UNRIGHTEOUSNESS…
      GOD is going to Separate SHEEP and WOLVES.
      Some one teaching right way learn.
      Have a good day.
      Rg
      Anonymous

  63. Brother Vik G,

    The two words you have written are the same one. (Did you write it intentionally to evade the facts or due to lack of knowledge of the language? Beware of 1 Cori. 4:4). Since I have quoted the reference for the Malayalam verse in English in my previous comment, I hope that you might have understood it from your proficient version of bible?

    Why are you obsessed with the indefensible glorification and justification of TPM white clad frauds? Why can’t you give the difference between two very familiar TPM words on the basis of bible?

    I am concerned about TPM and its fanatics as per Hosea 4:6. That’s why I am commenting in this site.

    As far I am concerned, there cannot be greater gentiles, brainwashed and idol worshipers than TPM purely on the basis of scripture.

    I am pointing out the promiscuous activities and indoctrination of TPM as per the authority given by God according Ephesians 5:11-13.

    I am more interested in fishing from a nearby TPM pond than a far away ocean. Moreover, it is much more easy to fish and cook from TPM ponds since only one species of fish is available there where as in an ocean different species of fish will make it difficult to separate each category of fish.

    //Let the fanatics believe what they choose to believe.// Does the Bible say so? If so, then all the sacrifices of Jesus and His apostles are meaningless.

    MAY GOD BLESS YOU.

    • Franklin

      I am still a child and learning every day.

      You quoted Hosea 4:6 where he prophesies “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.”

      I presume that the “My people” he uses is in reference to “God’s people”.

      Surely it does not refer to “Hosea’s people”.

      Since you are not lacking in knowledge, you have nothing to worry about.
      God will not reject you.

      Don’t worry about “His people” who lack knowledge. “He” will take care of them – one way or another.

      You further alluded to authority given to you in Ephesians 5.

      The apostle says “have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.”

      Question: have YOU reproved (reprimanded) them? How? Where? When?

      In verse 12, Paul says “For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.”

      Are you exercising Paul’s advice or are you constantly speaking of the unfruitful works of darkness day in and day out, cloaked in the garb of Franklin?

      And let’s not forget verse 13: “But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.”

      My question to you again: have you reproved (reprimanded) them that you accuse?

      You and others here seem to want to play prosecutor, jury and judge.

      You suggested that I am “obsessed with the indefensible glorification and justification of TPM white clad frauds”.

      I have called it as I see it.

      I have agreed with some points of view where I genuinely agree.

      I have supported the expulsion of immoral people.

      Fortunately for me, I have never met most of the people who have been accused and I definitely have not met them in the recent years.

      I will not tell my local pastor to reprimand someone on my behalf.

      I will do reprimand the accused face-to-face.

      I do have one obsession though, that I will admit to – debating with the likes of you.

      It’s quite invigorating to engage, and along the way I learn something new.

  64. Brother Vik g,

    //Don’t worry about “His people” who lack knowledge. “He” will take care of them – one way or another.// Who will take care of them? Your Chief Shepherds or your promiscuous masters of celebate frauds? Do you have any biblical support for your comment?

    //Are you exercising Paul’s advice or are you constantly speaking of the unfruitful works of darkness day in and day out, cloaked in the garb of Franklin?// Do you have any difficulty in understanding simple English.
    Do you think I too do all the fabrications in personal account as well as in financial accounts like
    all your white clad frauds.

    //And let’s not forget verse 13: “But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.” // Did you expect all the fruits of darkness of TPM will be buried under the carpet for ever and ever. THIS SITE IS DOING WHAT PAUL PROPHESIED ALMOST 2000 YEARS AGO.

    //I have called it as I see it.// Rewind your earlier comments on various articles including the murder of Pastor Kanakraj, adventures of Sunny Appachen and various other issues. Do you think we are all suffering from dyslexia.

    //I have supported the expulsion of immoral people.// How many people have been expelled with your support?

    I was eagerly looking for some bible verses for supporting your claim. As usual it is almost impossible for him to quote it.

    • //Who will take care of them? Your Chief Shepherds or your promiscuous masters of celebate frauds? Do you have any biblical support for your comment?//

      You suggested that I don’t understand English and it seems more like it is YOU that does not understand.

      God will take care of everything and everyone in His time and place of His choosing.

      Like a gardener removes all the weeds so that the flowers can grow, God will tend to all of us.

      Or are you suggesting that you are going to do His job for Him?

      //Do you have any difficulty in understanding simple English.
      Do you think I too do all the fabrications in personal account as well as in financial accounts like
      all your white clad frauds.      //

      What fabrications are you referring to?
      Any allegation without verified evidence is a fabrication.
      The evidence must be verified by an independent authority.
      I cannot accuse you of something, claim that my evidence is 100% proof without it being verified and ask for you to be punished merely on the basis of what I say. Can I?

      //Did you expect all the fruits of darkness of TPM will be buried under the carpet for ever and ever. THIS SITE IS DOING WHAT PAUL PROPHESIED ALMOST 2000 YEARS AGO.//

      I do not think any fruits of darkness of anyone will be buried under any carpet forever.

      This site is not doing what Paul prophesied.
      It is merely waging a one-sided war against one organization.
      This site is biased and set up for fault finding.

      It is not being run to expound the truth.

      The 100s of articles that you and others keep talking about are merely a cover for bad mouthing a group of people.

      IN THE CONTEXT of the site as it stands today, NOTHING can be taken seriously.

      It’s merely an ideological propaganda machine.

      //Rewind your earlier comments on various articles including the murder of Pastor Kanakraj, adventures of Sunny Appachen and various other issues. Do you think we are all suffering from dyslexia.//

      Are you exhibiting any symptoms of dyslexia?
      I am not qualified to help you with it.

      //How many people have been expelled with your support?//

      I don’t know.

      I will have to check with the chief pastor if he took any action based on my letters.

      //I was eagerly looking for some bible verses for supporting your claim. As usual it is almost impossible for him to quote it.//

      I have already quoted the verses in my earlier comments, based on which you responded.

      I would suggest you have the possibility for dyslexia checked out by a qualified physician.

  65. After reading his 2nd & 3rd wave of Vik G’s emotive replies,now is the high time for me to expressly retrace back my comments that I mistook the changed personality from his older posture. Sorry to see that he went back to his original shell which shields him anyway.
    It is sad to see none of his emotive replies contain any Scriptural references. Overall he stands no where and circles round and round.But still man can live with a hope.

    • EE – I have said time and again that I do not have the scriptural knowledge to “preach”, as you perhaps have.

      However, whenever scripture has been quoted, I do refer to it and try to understand the context and meaning.

      I am actually quite happy that I do not know enough of the scripture.
      This leads me back to it every day and I get to spend some time reading.

      Hopefully this new found desire for the word will remain with me.

  67. Brother Vik G,

    At least now will you give me the difference between a saint and a believer according to TPM perspective with proper biblical references. Once again please don’t digress.

  68. @ Blessed Assuarance…//If the TPM believers wake up, this system cannot survive. It’s the believers’ monetary tithes that’s keeping this organization standing & killing innocent victims!//

    How true it is Sister.

    Your comments truly reflected the sad demise of Sis Nancy of Baroda centre–TPM -INDIA.
    when anyone reads ‘her pathetic story of her killing’ in these columns under the episide title-CHURCH OF SATAN vs THE CURSED ORGANIISATION …Sept 29,2019 —

    //I’m still suffering from serious physical afflictions inflicted on me by this organization & to know that there has been no fruit for all my sufferings, makes it all the more difficult to bear!//

    Your statement again truly applicable to the late sister Nancy’ younger sister Percy who is now currently serving this monster in MELBOURNE F.H –AUSTRALIA.
    God knows how she must be suffering in this monster’s Jail in AUSTRALIA

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