Rapture Series – Pre-Trib vs Post Trib – 7

This is a continuation of the series about Rapture. In this article,  we will explain about a case of a flawed understanding of resurrection in TPM’s Burial Service. TPM teaches that the Elites in their Church will be resurrected and caught up SEVEN YEARS before the END of Tribulation(TPM’s Order of Resurrection). Therefore, it is quite natural for us to assume that their Center Pastors(of their 144,000) would be considered as one of the Elites who will be receiving a special resurrection. I scanned through youtube videos and got one funeral video of Pastor I G John who expired 4-5 months back. I have cut a small portion of the service to highlight a section where the Mumbai Centre Pastor is quoting from 1 Cor 15:51-54

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Does the TPM Clergy know when this event occurs?

While you listen to the video, please also note the portion highlighted in the above verse. This is because these highlighted portions in the scripture clearly negate the presence of a Secret Rapture.

The Mystery and the Last Trump

Paul is unambiguous about the Mystery that would be happening at the Last Trump. He speaks about this Mystery because he has received a Revelation from the Lord.

I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ. Gal 1:12

God does not leave us clueless when he communicates to us. We see that Paul receives a revelation about THE LAST TRUMP. However, we do not see any inference about the earlier TRUMPETS in Paul’s Writings. That is because the Lord has plans to reveal the details of the earlier Trumpets for us in the book of Revelation. In the book of Revelation, we see that there is a sequence of Seven Trumpets. So it is Natural that the revelations of Paul and John will sync up as the source of both the revelations is from the Lord Jesus Christ(Rev 1:1).  It would not be an exaggeration to say that the Abundance of Revelation in Paul (2 Corinthians 12:7) was brought to completion by John.

The Series of the Seven Trumpets are starting to sound from Rev 8:6

And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

This series ends with the Seventh Trumpet (THE LAST TRUMP as mentioned by Paul) which culminates in ushering the Millenial reign of Christ. I am sure some of you might be wondering if Admin has gone bonkers. Let us check some scriptures which confirm the same. The SEVENTH TRUMPET is being blown at the END OF TRIBULATION.

Just before the blowing of the Seventh Trumpet (The Last Trump), note what is being said.

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. Rev 10:7

Now, do you know what was that Mystery which was declared to God’s Servants the Prophets? Read 1 Cor 15:51 (Our Key Verse) and know that Paul presents the Rapture as the Mystery. Did you understand it now?

Rapture Series – Pre-Trib vs Post Trib – 7

Now let us see what happens after the Seventh Trumpet(The Last Trump) is blown.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever. Rev 11:15

The Mystery(Rapture) has been fulfilled and the World Kingdoms are Taken over by our Lord.

This same event is mentioned by Paul in 1 Thess 4:16-17

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Rapture Series – Pre-Trib vs Post Trib – 7

Notice how the scriptures in 1 Corinthians, Revelation and 1 Thessalonians Fit exactly like the pieces of a Jigsaw Puzzle. This also synchronises with the events mentioned in Daniel 7, Check the comparisons below.

apture Series – Pre-Trib vs Post Trib – 7

Death is Swallowed Up in Victory

Rapture Series – Pre-Trib vs Post Trib – 7We have seen in our previous articles that just before the return of the Lord we will be seeing cosmic signs where the Sun and the Moon will be darkened. Click here to read an article that explains the cosmic events which will usher in the Day of the Lord.

Keep that in mind while we discuss this saying of “Death is Swallowed Up in Victory“, Clearly we see that Paul is quoting from an Old Testament scripture where he says that ……then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory1 Cor 15:54

Should not we check the portion that Paul is quoting from while he explains this Mystery? There is a portion in Isaiah where he is Describing a Special Day (The Day of the Lord) when this event will happen.

He will swallow up death in victory, and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it. Isa 25:8

Now we need to check when will this Particular Day occur. For that, we need to roll back a few(8) verses. And lo we see the Sun and moon again getting ashamed to show their light.

23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously. Isa 24:23

This event occurs after the Tribulation and not before it.

29 Immediately “AFTER THE TRIBULATION” of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.  Matt 24:29-31

Conclusion

TPM holds erroneous doctrines and has duped many people claiming to be making them ready for the coming of the Lord. In the process, many people have lost their savings, children, families and many more. They claim to be experts of Zion. I wonder which Zion are they speaking about. The Lord Who blows his trumpet out of Zion will come only in the Day of the Lord and not Seven years before the End of Tribulation.

Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the Lord cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.  Joel 2:1-2.

 

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Rating: 4

56 Comments on “Rapture Series – Pre-Trib vs Post Trib – 7”

  1. This EPISODE -7 of the RAPTURE series brings yet another erroneous doctrine being preached by TPM into light–The doctrine of the LAST TRUMP.
    The mystery of ‘ The day of the Lord’ was also revealed in detail by correctly linking up with the verse in ISA 25;8 which was coupled with ISA 24;23 to know the exact day of the Lord.
    By reading these RAPTURE series so many mysteries are coming to light.
    Personally I am getting more enriched with these ‘STRONG MEAT’ and I thank ADMN bro for bringing so many TRUTHS into light through these series. Looking forward for many such mysteries to be revealed.(I ‘ve mistakenly thought
    that series were concluded by the previous EPISODE-6.I make my amends now)
    I am happy the Holy Spirit God is continuously guiding and leading ADMN bro to tackle this very important subject in the right perspective.

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  2. Excellent article admin. This clears the doubts of many. Lot of people people believe secret rapture. This message has to first reach to the pastor’s of all denominations.

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    1. Sad case of the blind leading the blind. If you read this propaganda you will end up in the same place as the administrator!

      As for the secret rapture:
      36 “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son,[a] but the Father only. 37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

      READ MATTHEW 24 . If more people read the bible rather than this garbage there would be less confusion.

      44 Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

      I bet the coward admin will not post this.. you know why? Because he is against the truth and the word of God.

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      1. Here we go. What better need for a TPM Sample? This is a typical TPM Case where Scriptures are taken out of context to Derive false doctrines. Anybody who has even read that chapter would not have commented this way. 🙂
        And burntamber52, If you have some respite from your verbal diarrhoea, you may read the entire series and especially 6th where your problem is addressed

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      2. @Do not be Deceived
        Did you read vs 29-31 before you reached vs 36?
        Suppose I tell you that “I will visit you AFTER Christmas 2019, but I cannot confirm a date”. Does that mean I may come before Christmas 2019 or does that mean I could come anytime AFTER Christmas 2019?

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  3. I am happy to see now the right kind of CHURNING action is being taking place in the hearts and minds of the most enlightened/the beloved and knowledgeable believer community/and the fence sitters /fun watching believer community of this blessed site.
    Even the secret peeping community of TPM clergy who are actively watching and following these RAPTURE series are thus getting educated .

    Let us not get agitated.
    If our agitation and struggling in prayer is as per the will of God like Daniel’s prayer,the angel of the Lord would certainly come and VISIT us. I firmly believe on this aspect.
    In a peaceful manner, we will love each other and let us all agree to disagree and differ on this ISSUE. if it is not palatable. There is no harm in this attitude .
    After all we are ignorant on many ISSUES of spiritual life and even after 100 years of our spending time of our lives we still grope in the dark places.
    At one point of time or other we gave strong WITNESSES in our respective churches /denominations after all about our PERSONAL TESTIMONIES how
    our beloved SAVIOUR spoke to us when we were enemies to him.
    Now even we will depend on the LORD’s voice how to about and how Hes’ going to lead us.
    Meanwhile as this RAPTURE series were began, I started making surveys / enquiries with the other world renowened churches about their view point.
    I preserved their e-mail replies in my laptop INBOX .
    I gathered their FEED BACK too about the existing doctrine of PRE-TRIB.
    Whoever wants it I would like to divulge it through this site.But let their COMMENTS be heard n in this FORUM.
    I thank ADMN brother for waking up all of us to see that a real CHURNING action is being taking place including in Sam Alangaramoney brother who was vehemently critical on many issues of CPM/TPM about the wrong doctrines being spread by them.After all 95 years were passed by this CULT.

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    1. I thank ADMN (fallen angel, the serpent) brother for waking up all of us (the host of his people) to see that a real CHURNING action (confusion and chaos) .

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      1. @Jasmine
        Proverbs 6:9,5
        How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard (Jasmine)? when wilt thou arise out of thy sleep? ….

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      2. @ Jasmine,

        Not sure if you’re woken, but good to see some good churning for the right reason happening.
        Just like how in John 5:4 an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water : whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had, you too have a good opportunity to be made whole after getting into the churned pool.

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      3. @Jasmine,

        The admin is neither fallen nor a serpent. He is just using his resources to shine the Light into TPM’s darkness. He is not starting a church or collecting your tithes and offerings. He is not even allowing ads on his blog which could generate revenue.

        On the contrary, your beloved TPM leaders are fallen and are serpents simply because they lie and have been lying for about 100 years. Unfortunately gullible souls like you and me have accepted these lies without question because we thought they were holy, celibate and saints. The reason behind this acceptance was our laziness in checking the Scriptures about what we were being taught week after week from Sunday School till the Funeral services.

        Sister, it is not too late, be a Berean and one day you will also see the Light and then you will realise how foolish you were and how you and your family have been wasting your lives in chasing a pervert Allwyn’s dream.

        These end times teachings are hard to swallow because they contradict what we have been taught. Have you ever wondered, what if we have been taught wrong? So please do some research and you will realise that you have been conned by white clad holy heretics. Wish you the very best in your mission to find the Truth.

        After confusion comes clarity. From chaos comes order, by the sheer Mercy of God, it happened to me and I hope it will happen to you as well.

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        1. A thoughtful reply……For Jasmine, I again want to remind the quote that is in the home page of this site by Mark Twain – It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled

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  4. Yea sure ADMN brother.

    Thank you for your quick response.

    Your quick reply helped a lot of believer and secretly watching CULT clergy also.

    All I need to do is to FILTER the name that they ‘ve addressed to me .I am ready
    with it..I ve to do is just copy paste it and post it into the site COMMENTS section

    Will it be acceptable to you since you are the owner cum maintainer of the site.
    I must take your permission though I made my COMMENTS in my earlier post.

    Since you and I wished to keep up our anonymity it is perfectly O.K with me.
    Hope you would also wish to maintain the same stand.

    Till the Lord tells us so that we can both reveal ourselves in His appointed HOUR!
    Expecting that DAY soon…..
    Thank you ,

    with love and prayers,
    your brother in Christ

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  5. Yea, here it is.
    ———————————————————————————————–
    Dear (..EAGLE’S EYE). Jul 29, 2019, 11:27 PM (5 days ago) to me

    Thank you for taking the time to write and regarding your question, I have copied a section below from an article that Richard Ritenbaugh wrote entitled, “Caught Up in the Rapture”, which you may find helpful. This particular citation specifically addresses 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.

    “How did this teaching of the apostle Paul ever come to be called the Rapture? The answer lies in the word translated “shall be caught up” (Greek harpagésómetha). In Latin, this word is rapere, from which “rapture” is derived. Free of any arcane or mysterious interpretation, it simply means “to be caught up,” “snatched,” or “seized.”

    The trouble begins when people confuse this meaning with another definition of rapture that has nothing to do with the biblical concept: “a state or experience of being carried away by overwhelming emotion; a mystical experience in which the spirit is exalted to a knowledge of divine things.” When people blur these meanings, a picture develops of a strange, otherworldly experience preached by fire-breathing preachers to compel sinners to repent before God’s wrath burns them to cinders.

    Those who teach the Rapture frequently begin with I Thessalonians 4:16-17, but soon afterward they move into areas unsupported in the Bible. They make assumptions that are suspect. Worst, they fail to consider the clear order of events presented in Revelation, pinpointing when this astounding miracle will occur.

    What do they believe? They believe that at some point in the near future, Jesus Christ will return and “snatch away” all Christians on the earth. Those who “believe” in Jesus will rise to meet Him in the air, and He will whisk them off to heaven for a 3 ½-to-seven-year Marriage Supper. In the meantime here on earth, untold destruction occurs when professing “born-again Christians” suddenly vanish while at the controls of cars, trucks, trains, airplanes, heavy equipment, and the like. “Unsaved” relatives and friends will frantically and unsuccessfully search for their raptured loved ones. The media will provide 24-hour coverage of the mysterious disappearance of millions of people, speculating wildly on its cause—everything from a mass alien abduction to shifting dimensions and levels of consciousness.

    On the other hand, the biblical teaching of the first resurrection is more straightforward. On the day Christ returns to earth to establish His Kingdom, the dead in Christ will rise first, and those who are alive and converted will follow. They will meet Him in the air and immediately return to earth as a vast army of spirit beings to defeat the Beast and False Prophet in the Valley of Jehoshaphat (Revelation 19:14; Joel 3:1-2; Zechariah 14:1-5).

    Notice two vast differences in these scenarios:

    1.The Protestant Rapture takes place either 3 ½ or seven years before Christ’s return, while the Bible shows it will occur at His second coming. For this reason, the Protestant concept is often called the “Pre-tribulation Rapture.”

    2.When believers are “caught up” in the air, Protestants believe, they will go immediately to heaven for a long, spectacular feast. The Bible shows, though, that the saints will return to earth to fight in Christ’s heavenly army and to help establish God’s Kingdom.

    Succinctly, then, the two differences are in timing and destination.”

    I hope this has helped you see exactly what is being taught by the Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 . If you would like to read the complete article by Richard Ritenbaugh, just click on the linked title in the first paragraph of this response to your email.
    Kind Regards,

    Mark Schindler
    Church of the Great God

    http://www.cgg.org
    http://www.BibleTools.org
    http://www.Sabbath.org
    http://www.TrueGospel.org
    http://www.theBerean.org
    http://www.biblicaljesus.org
    ————————————————————————————————–
    The above was the reply I received from that particular CHURCH.
    We can still put some debate on their view point.
    I request ADMN bro to please analise the contents of this reply I received.
    Should you need what was my letter contents…..I wish to post it too. No issue.

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    1. From a quick reading of this comment. I think the writer is pretty much saying what we are also saying. Though he is identifying the pre-trib rapture as a protestant rapture, I think he is supporting a post-trib view. Therefore, there is no reason to reply to the comment.


      I suspect that he belongs to the Seventh-day Adventist cult from the websites he gave. Though they have gotten the post-trib part right, they have issues with other theological interpretations.

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  6. Thank you brother .
    Now it is time for all those interested and the Brothers and Sisters who have been the regular participants of this site to deeply ponder over about the PRE-TRIB which has been the core aspect of ..the 96 year old CULT ( leave other denominations aside).Without knowing head and tail ,this particular CULT has been instrumental in professing these doctrines through out their regular Bible Studies/their yearly CONVENTIONS/NOV-OCT international YOUTH CAMPS/through conducting FQA sessions /many many more.
    Last but not least they did not spare the innocent tiny tots S.S children and they print these doctrines in the syllabus books for scores and scores of years with new additions.

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  7. @ ADMN” I suspect that he belongs to the Seventh-day Adventist cult from the websites he gave. Though they have gotten the post-trib part right, they have issues with other theological interpretations.”

    A good observation. If some one believes in POST-TRIB doctrine apart from their core doctrines, we are unconcerned with their core issues.
    We only see whether Biblical view is followed or violated.
    That makes it doubly clear that we are not following any sect/cult.We simply follow what the Bible teaches.
    But to our surprise the proponents of the PRE-TRIB like Sam Alangaramoney has not defended with any Scriptural reference in this ongoing issue.But still we love them and pray for them .

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  8. Poor Mr Eagle and the host here, defending your idol here, you lost the love of God and built a wall betwixt God and yourself with the pride you have room unknowingly. Will pray, and may God be gracious to open the eyes to please Him.

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  9. It does n’t surprise me to receive Jasmine’s brickbats. I can EMPATHISE her state of predicament, because she lacks the very understanding of the subject. but I don’t wish to accuse her just as she pours her anger on me and ADMN brother who has been doing the yeoman service to the Christian community as a whole.I ‘ve been making these comments time again Not now..What makes you envy of it? There is no idol nor idolatry existing here. First of all if you do not like this site who asked you to visit this site and pour your anger like this. If you are blessed with any Scriptural knowledge to defend the ISSUE under debate ,do it if you can .

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  10. I am aware of the battle front I am waging. Imagining we are the co-soldiers in the common battle front we have ,and as the typical soldier marches and presses farward with full swing ,he/she is bound to receive the enemy’s anger like the one we witnessing .But the WHOLE ARMOUR of GOD is fully backing the typical soldier. EPHESIANS 6;13. Rejoice …………and I say Rejoice. PHIL 4;4

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  11. @ADMN
    “I suspect that he belongs to the Seventh-day Adventist cult from the websites he gave. Though they have gotten the post-trib part right, they have issues with other theological interpretations.”

    Your suspicion found to be true as I searched their web page and found the following statement……QUOTE……”This site is wholly owned and operated by Church of the Great God, Inc., a non-profit organization. The church, based in the Charlotte, North Carolina, area, is a Sabbath-keeping, non-Trinitarian organization of individuals in the United States, Canada, France, the Netherlands, southern Africa, Australia, Trinidad, the Philippines, and various other locations around the world. In addition to TrueGospel.org, the church also produces The Berean: Daily Verse and Comment, Sabbath, Biblical Jesus, and Bible Tools, as well as publishing Forerunner magazine, various booklets on Christian subjects, and sermon CDs. ” UNQUOTE.
    When I understood that web site is a non-Trinitarian organisation of individuals ,I simply decided that I should no longer allow their kind of spiritual matter enter into my inbox.I will unsubscribe with immediate effect all those 6 sites what ever Mark Schindler of CHURCH OF GREAT GOD (CGG)mentioned in his letter to me.
    This is for the best part of the information for all the readers including JASMINE of this site.Many times we get easily MISLED by the very name they carry CGG!
    So JASMINE, better be careful ,it is still you to follow or not to follow.But my duty is to alert you out of the love of Christ I carry for you.There are so many JASMINES in this world.Not only you.Most probably some of the TPM clergy is lurking behind and using that name JASMINE!Better learn now.

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  12. True. I used to believe in TPM’s doctrines. Now I follow Messianic Judaism and follow Torah.
    BTW, the day of the Lord is Yom Kippur (the day of Atonement). A lot of things will be clarified by following this series.

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      1. Todah Rabbah for the question Johnson. Shalom from my side. No all 613 Mitzvots aren’t meant to be kept by every single believer, because few of the mitzvots are only meant for women, few for the priests, few for the levites etc. Hope this clears your doubts.

        Shalom

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    1. Hey Hebrew Buddy (sorry I cant type or address your name in Hebrew as I don’t know that language),

      Thanks for posting the link to this video, very informative and full of Hebrew. Before I dig into any new information however kosher it may sound, I do a quick background check and what I found about the teacher of this series made me a bit apprehensive. Before I can consume his teachings, I would like your view on the below:

      Can you please confirm if Mr. Monte Judah had predicted that 1993 was the beginning of the Tribulation, that the Abomination of Desolation would be set up in 1997, and that Prince Charles of Wales is the Antichrist….

      If he had and since these prophecies did not come true, isn’t Monte Judah a False prophet?

      Also is it true that he wants the “Book of Hebrews” out of the Bible?

      Please check this link from where I got this information: https://www.therefinersfire.org/book_of_hebrews.htm

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  13. @אבן-העץר says: August 5, 2019 at 11:50 pm

    Thank you brother אבן-העץר for sending this clipping as a part of our inter action on REVELATION-1.-one of the most beautiful studies that I ‘ve ever come across.
    Then I went on copy pasted all the series.But in the series REVELATION–15 was missing. Could you please help me trace it out and post it in this site.I ‘ve to coolly sit and listen all of them one by one.I would be grateful to you for the gesture.

    My special thanks go to ADMN brother for his excellent interactive sessions cum debates being held among bouquets and brickbats that this RAPTURE series received. It impacted very much on a high note on those who are really interested.You are the DOYEN of rendering this yeoman service for helping the whole lot of CHRISTIAN community . Thank you once again

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  14. @Johnson. Thanks for the question. No all the Mitzvots are NOT meant to be followed by every single believer, because few Mitzvots are meant to be kept by women, few by men, few by the class of priests etc. Hope that clarifies your doubts. But Yes, these Mitzvots are to be followed by everyone who believes in the God of Israel, and believes in Yeshua. We are grafted into the commonwealth of Israel.

    @Eagle’e Eye here you go chapter 15 of Revelation:

    Rating: 4
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    1. Following the Torah in its entirety is not practical especially in modern times. I personally think we need to appreciate and respect the spirit of the Torah and adapt ourselves to the times with the teachings of Jesus. That is only possible if the law is written in our hearts as prophecied by the prophet Jeremiah and Ezekiel. That thing has happened when the Holy Spirit came into our hearts.

      A list of the 613 laws could be found in http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

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      1. Sir I am not here for a verbal spat.
        But know that to say “Following the Torah in its entirety is not practical especially in modern times” is incorrect. See following the Torah in its entirety is not possible at all, because as mentioned earlier, not all the Mitzvots are supposed to be kept by say, a woman or a man. That means, the Mitzvots mentioned to women are not applicable to men and vice versa.
        Ironically, I am glad that you have disproved your statement by saying, “That is only possible if the law is written in our hearts as prophecied by the prophet Jeremiah and Ezekiel. That thing has happened when the Holy Spirit came into our hearts.”
        Btw, Yeshua never taught against the Torah, He came to fulfill it. He only said, “If you love Me, follow my commandments(Mitzvots)”. He meant the Law of Moses here. Because we know that His commandments are the commandment of the Father: and they two are ONE.
        Paul never taught against the Torah either, unlike many mainstream christians(including TPM- Replacement theology) claim. Try to understand the Bible from a Hebraic perspective. There is a pattern in the Bible that only God’s Ruach Hakodesh (Holy Spirit) can reveal as it was revealed to Yochanan, Saul (Paul), David, Yashayah, Avraham, Moshe and Yeshua.
        I will not try to “convince” you if you disagree, because its all mentioned in the Bible.

        @Eagle’s Eye, here you go mate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-mLxEwBchY&t=7s

        It was there in the series, i dont know how you missed it LOL.

        Shalom

        Rating: 4
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        1. @אבן-העץר
          Tell me one thing
          If you are working in an office where there are people of all kinds. How will you maintain the separation from menstruating women as per Leviticus 15: 19-33? Can you see a woman and know if she is menstruating? Does even the Holy Spirit tell you?
          Or Don’t you know that many of our modern clothing has multiple fabrics interweaved which is not right as per the Torah if you go by the letters? There are many such cases which are not practical in modern times. Many laws have been made obsolete if you try to go by the letters. Without the Holy Spirit, you are running a lost race.

          What you are doing is trying to justify yourself by the law in the letters which is not what the Holy Spirit helps you for.
          If you remember the parable of the Good Samaritan, I believe that the priest did not try to help the man because if he dies in the process, the priest becomes unclean as per the Torah. Literal observance of Torah can, therefore, lead you to do things which are against the spirit.

          Why do you think Jesus always had issues with the Pharisees who tried to implement the law of Letters? It’s because they overruled the basics of Mercy, Love and Justice while strictly following the letters(Luke 11:42)? Why do you think Paul was against the circumcision forced by Judaisers which led him to write the epistle to the Galatians? If you are still following the law of the letters without spiritual discernment, you have not yet met Christ and neither have you got the Holy Spirit (Gal 3:24)

          Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Gal 5:4
          Do you know what does the above verse say? It says that the Literal Torah Observers of the letter, are on their own mission to be saved. They do not need the Saviour Jesus Christ who is offering the Salvation by Grace. So brother, wish you all the best in your endeavours of following the Law of the Letters. God Bless you.

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  15. Shalom bro.אבן-העץר ,thank you for your comment; @Eagle’e Eye here you go chapter 15 of Revelation:( This is already covered under EPISODE-13
    What I meant EPISODE-15 on the REVELATION series I found missing in the YOU TUBE series. Could you please fetch it for me ?Thank you.

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  16. Shalom אבן-העץר dear,
    A big thank you for posting this EPISODE –15 of this REVELATION series.I ‘ve got it now.
    While on the same subject I thought it would not be out of context if I go through some of your comments appeared on this site regarding on following 613 -Mitzvots of TORAH and your clarification that “…. not all Mitzvots are NOT meant to be followed by every single believer, because few Mitzvots are meant to be kept by women, few by men, few by the class of priests etc. ‘
    Good to know the observations from you.Now that you ‘ve shifted to MESSIANIC
    JUDAISM and follow TORAH,the Mitzvots on CLOTHING say like this. ( There are three Mitzvots mentioned on CLOTHING aspect)
    I believe Mitzvot 367 is apt for the women. as ADMN raised very rightly.
    What I mean to say is that are many things in our day to day spiritual life that we deviate from the standard pattern of G-d’s way and that we would bring our course correction at the latter stage of our life .That will be fine in the sight of G-d so long as our conscience is pure.Because the Lord knew well our infirmities and short comings .For example I was also a PRE-TRIB believer of TPM of 25 long years. But now when the truth is known what the Scripture says ,I had to follow the truth.(This is purely my opinion,not meant to thrust my opinion on others) because the WORD of G-d is the ultimate JUDGE. You can differ with me and we agree to disagree . Theres’ no issue at all. But what I am concerned to know is that MESSIANIC JUDAISM too supports the view of PRE-TRIB from the book written by Dr. David Reagan — IN DEFENCE OF PRE-TRIB–
    A report released that an important video on the defence of PRE-TRIB was also released that the ministry has ever produced. They are eager to see its widespread distribution.The report further says …… “It not only presents a firm biblical case for a Pre-Trib Rapture, it also deals with many of the silly myths about the doctrine that have been conjured up by the opponents.”
    Hope you would catch hold of that video and get the updates. Please pass on to me your valuable comments on it. Thank you.
    ————————————————————————————————-
    Clothing
    365. That a man shall not wear women’s clothing (Deut. 22:5) (CCN179).
    366.That a woman should not wear men’s clothing (Deut. 22:5) (CCN178).
    367.Not to wear garments made of wool and linen mixed together (Deut. 22:11) (CCN181).

    1+
    1. haha… i am not surprised by this. there are black sheeps in every assembly. Those who teach against Torah will be the least in His kingdom. but the Bible does not teach a pre trib rapture.
      of course some messianic teachers may teach otherwise, but i couldnt care less about it. Hashem will deal with them.

      2+
  17. told you i am not here for a debate with you. you follow what you believe is true. But the Mosaic law cannot be undone. In the millennial kingdom, Torah will be followed. May be we can talk about over a cup of coffee someday haha… there are a lot of things that i may have to explain because clearly to understand the Torah and the Brit Chadashah, one needs to understand it via the Ruach Hakodesh. He will open the eyes of goyim to understand Torah, and He Himself will write His Torah on the fleshy tables of our heart. Even the aliens and the stranger in the land of Israel (His Kingdom) will follow the Torah not out of legalism, but out of love.
    I personally follow Torah because I love it. I was once like you, saying the exact same things about the legalistic part of the Torah. I have learned that when the spirit of G-d leads you, you will have no other choice than to follow Torah, be His bondservant and yearn for His Torah because Hashem is our Yeshuah (salvation).
    Shalom

    Rating: 4
    0
  18. Also if I may, Yeshua never liked the pharisees because they taught against the Torah. The basics of Torah IS love and mercy to the brethren and aliens. They taught completely against Torah and claim it to be Torah. Its somewhat like what many denominations of Christianity does. Yeshua Himself said He came to fulfill the law and not one Yud (smallest letter in the hebrew alphabet) of the Torah will pass away till all of them are fulfilled mr. admin. you may want to re-read the Tanakh(Old Testament) and Brit Chadashah(New Testament) from the eyes of the Hebraic erudite scholar. I dont need to protect the validity of the Torah. Hashem will do that for me. Even he who teaches against the Torah will be the least in His kingdom. (“Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least. commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be. called the least in the kingdom of heaven”). btw the least of the commandment of the Torah is very interesting. try to find it out.

    And one more thing, if your “holy spirit” is suggesting you to not follow Torah, then your “holy spirit” may not be Hashem’s Ruach Kodesh. its something that a lot of TPMites struggle with. I encourage you before replying to me with your prejudice about the Torah or His Mitzvots, pls pray. Because the Spirit of God will NEVER EVER speak against his own words. the best way to test any spirit is to test against the word of God(Torah). if the utterance of the Spirit matches with His word then it is indeed from Elohim else its not.
    1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
    John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
    Tehillim 119:142 = “וְֽתוֹרָתְךָ֥ אֱמֶֽת… (…VeTorahtecha Emet)” meaning “Thy Torah is Emet(Truth)” (OJB)

    This will be my last comment here.

    Cheerio

    Rating: 4
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    1. Dear אבן-העץר
      You have not answered any of my questions. What you have done is give your own logic interspersed with Hebrew words in English. I know you may not respond. But Wishing you Shalom.

      2+
  19. @ אבן-העץר says: August 8, 2019 at 10:23 am
    ”haha… i am not surprised by this. there are black sheeps in every assembly. Those who teach against Torah will be the least in His kingdom. but the Bible does not teach a pre trib rapture.”
    This is beautiful..You ‘ve hit the target—THE BULL’S EYE.You ve set the ball rolling.

    Though you seem to a bit impatient,consider the meditation of the following
    Brit Chadashah(New Testament) 2 COR 3:6—-QUOTE -Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.—- UNQUOTE
    Contextually, it looks like when Paul himself was a Jew, speaks of ‘the letter’ in contrast to ‘the spirit’, he is talking about ‘the Law’ as a whole; not the books of the Hebrew scriptures, not the ten commandments, not the ceremonial commandments, but the entire ‘old covenant’ system. This is reinforced by his connection of the ‘new covenant’ in verse 6 with writing on ‘human hearts’ in verse 3. QUOTE —For asmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.—-UNQUOTE. Y ou ‘ve rightly stated this in your comment also.
    This is an obvious reference to Jeremiah 31, where God says he will make a ‘new covenant’ that is unlike the (old) covenant he made with Israel during the exodus.

    He nuances it differently per epistle, but what Paul says in 2 Corinthians 3 is comparable to what he writes in Romans 7-8, or Galatians 3-5. The Law (though not evil) brings condemnation of death on those who sin, but Jesus brings life through the spirit. The old covenant, and the new covenant. These three passages have a noticeable overlap in content: death from the Law, life from the spirit/faith/Jesus, being heirs with Jesus, and a glory to be revealed/unveiled.
    I pray let HASHEM reveal further revelations to anyone who actively follow our interactive session. Shalom

    1+
  20. I think this EPISODE No.7 which attracted huge number of READERS from all over the world is going to see more hits /comments .Prominently of late this site is being visited regularly by Jewish people also as we saw earlier.There are orthodox and liberal Jews but whoever may be they are, the Scriptures very clearly say Apostle Peter being says in ACTS 10:34—–GOD is no respecter of persons.
    verse 35 says.. … from every nation whoever feareth Him,and worketh righteousness is accepted with Him., Peter was forthright in telling to the whole world in the subsequent verse 36….JESUS CHRIST is Lord of all. Its’ noteworthy that he did not spare even JEWISH people. In the similar tone Apostle Paul, another Jewish laments more than Peter, that iSRAEL which consist of majority of Jewish people should be saved obviously by the name of Jesus, that was his heart’s desire.( ROM 10:1). I thought it fit to add one of the most famous quotations in this regard
    ‘The vital relationship which the Christian has to the Bible is not that he worships the letter, but that the Holy Spirit makes the words of the Bible spirit and life to him’
    ( from the book of OSWALD CHAMBERS-The Psychology of Redemption, 1066 L)

    1+
  21. @No More a Slave to Fear says: ‘”Hey Hebrew Buddy (sorry I cant type or address your name in Hebrew as I don’t know that language),”

    Dear brother NMSTF, ‘am happy to see your comment after a long time. Infact it is easy to spell this Jewish brother’s name. I just copy pasted his name thus:אבן-העץר.I too can’t write Hebrew like you.
    If you closely observe my comments and ADMN brother’s comments, we tried to reach him by defending the Biblical view points with a clear cut references..He got no answers to our comments.He simply gone back into the shell.I wrote to him that Lion& Lamb Ministries represented by Monte Judah was promoting a book tittled -“IN DIFENCE OF PRE-TRIB.”. He was silent. He was keeping mum.
    As you ‘ve rightly pointed out —Monte Judah a False prophet —is thus vindicated
    when I referred the site given by you.So now what ever REVELATION series 1-17 clipping released by L&L ministries could never be relied upon, and we can take a call of that FALSE PROPHET’s words at all.As a blessing in disguise ,good thing happened for us ultimately. This site exposed further who are the the wolves and the false prophets . I am sure that Jewish reader would never come back.
    At the end we profusely thank and congratulate our ADMN brother for enabling us to IDENTIFY these false prophets!

    1+
    1. @Eagle Eye

      I agree Brother, when someone is liberated from a cult, in most cases they end up in another. It is like the saying goes – from the frying pan into the fire.

      Hope and pray that ex TPM folks don’t fall into this trap. We just need to be very cautious about the material we are being exposed to as modern religion is big business and there are too many false teachers floating around especially in the YouTube world whose only goal is make money,

      1+
  22. CORRECTION to be incorporated in my earlier COMMENT………… “”and we can take a call of that FALSE PROPHET’s words at all.””
    Please read it as –‘and we can not take a call of that FALSE PROPHET’s words at all’
    I regret the typographical error occured.

    0
  23. I think @אבן-העץר has his/her own opinion to set forth in this discussion. I believe the admin wouldn’t set forth any limits to what and who has an opinion to speak out here. However, many of the populace who did comment here did lash out against this person. As its said in the Bible its a case of trying to find fault with a splinter when the person pointing is with a log. We strongly arguing with and fighting tooth and nail against the TPM dogmas and supporters to open their eyes.

    Agreed, that said person did go from TPM to Judaism, agreed that is not something many people could conventionally accept but I think a bit of retrospect is required here.
    Most of what is criticised here is not only TPM doctrines but it does overlap with other Pentecostal churches too. Hence I am willing to bet a large amount of money that many of the people here commenting and arguing against TPM are still in TPM. Are still weekly church goers in TPM. I would argue that many of the contributors are married and with a family, hence to sustain the status quo many still are involved with the TPM Church. Many of us, including myself are living in forced denial. I say forced denial because many of the married people here are loving husbands & fathers or wives & mothers and wouldn’t want to hurt their partners or families by so and so reasons. Even if we do think of a change, other Pentecostal churches are not in our side view mirrors cuz of so many ways they are similar to TPM and of course the politics and the money grabbing. Denominational churches are not even in our perspective because from a very young age we are taught and drilled that we are so much better than them and that they are wrong in so many ways. If other denominations in Christianity itself is not in our perspective then घर वापसी and circumcision is unthinkable.

    Atleast אבן-העץר took a step to explore outside the square box. I think we should at least give that person the benefit of the doubt.
    After all, we are not TPM, we are the people who’s eyes have been opened aren’t we?

    1+
    1. //Hence I am willing to bet a large amount of money that many of the people here commenting and arguing against TPM are still in TPM.

      🙂 You may end up losing your money. I would say a large number of viewers of this site may still be in TPM with a heavy burden within them. However, the ones who are commenting are not even 1% of the viewers and they are most definitely out of TPM or stepping out of it.

      0
      1. Ha ha Touché but I would still hold my bets cuz I do know a few of the commenters, I do see them in church here outside India and in Middle East and even in India too.

        I would still wait for the river card if you know what I mean.

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  24. @Kether….”After all, we are not TPM, we are the people who’s eyes have been opened aren’t we?”
    Mine is the first + ve hit for Brother Kether for keeping his kind of comment.
    Well as per my case, let me admit that I was completely out of the clutches of TPM fold and not even seeing their faces in these days at all.
    I think I belong to the group that consist not even 1% of the viewership of this site as ADMN brother correctly estimated.

    2+
  25. Hi Admin,

    I am not sure if you’ve done a topic on speaking in tongues but if you haven’t then it could be a good point of discussion in the site.

    From what I see and from my researches I believe that Glossolalia (dictionary vocabulary for speaking in tongues) is a fake babble and the great philosopher Plato himself commented on Glossolalia even before Christianity came into being. In three different dialogues by Plato, he makes reference to ecstatic speech that is unintelligible, so does Virgil in the Aeneid. Glossolalia appeared in the Eleusinian, Dionysian, and Orphic Mystery Religions, as well as in the ancient cults of Mithra and Osiris. Sibyls and Pythias were known as well for their practice of glossolalia and ecstatic speech while under trance induced states. Among other ecstatic and shamanistic practices we also find glossolalia.

    George B. Cutten writes in An Ethnological Study of Glossalalia that, Glossolalia is practiced among non-Christian religions: the Peyote cult among the North American Indians, the Haida Indians of the Pacific Northwest, Shamans in the Sudan, the Shango cult of the West Coast of Africa, the Shago cult in Trinidad, the Voodoo cult in Haiti, the Aborigines of South America and Australia, the Eskimos of the subarctic regions of North America and Asia, the Shamans in Greenland, the Dyaks of Borneo, the Zor cult of Ethiopia, the Siberian shamans, the Chaco Indians of South America, the Curanderos of the Andes, the Kinka in the African Sudan, the Thonga shamans of Africa, and the Tibetan monks.

    In fact, in the Bible Jesus refers to glossolalia as a Pagan practice. “And when you pray, do not babble on like Pagans (Gentiles)…” (Matt 6:7) The original word used for “babble” is battologéō which means “properly, to blubber nonsensical repetitions; to chatter (be “long-winded”), using empty (vain) words (Souter).” This idea that Jesus is referring to glossolalia as an already Pagan practice is not only backed by history but by Jesus stating that “In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues (glṓssa)” (Mark 16:17)

    Moreover this practice of speaking in unintelligible tongues are there only within the Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. Did the Holy Spirit leave out the other churches?

    Another thing to note is that if you look at the TPM churches the tongues are different from the tongues spoken in IPC. I don’t know if you might find it offensive but the exact words are clearly different, unintelligible nonetheless. However, tongues across TPM is very similar and tongues across other Pentecostal churches are similar.

    Maybe I’m wrong and skeptical but any further points you want to add are welcome.

    3+
    1. @Living by Faith
      It is true that I have not blogged any article regarding speaking in tongues. However, in many places, I have made known my displeasure about the way it is being handled in many churches. Many Pentecostal churches have made it part of their doctrines to say that if you do not speak in tongues, you are not anointed by the Holy Spirit. TPM has gone one step further saying that if you do not speak in tongues you are disqualified from being raptured. Therefore it is quite natural that the peer pressure catches up with many innocents and they are forced to act it out.

      However, I am not disregarding the gift of speaking in tongues and would like to mention that this is a genuine gift and is not really so prevalent as many of our Ministers would like us to think. All gifts of the Spirit are to be operated when required. Unfortunately, many of today’s Christians make use of these gifts(mostly fake) with an ulterior motive of showing their superiority over others. Some of those are the made-up prophecies and interpretations you get to see in TPM to push in their agenda. Be careful with these counterfeits. The presence of counterfeits are enough proof of the preciousness of the original.

      4+
      1. More than speaking in un know tounges it’s important to receive power after the Holy Ghost is come upon us Acts 1:8

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  26. Matthew 9 14-17 is self explanatory. Most people confuse between old covenant with new covenant. Law is important but if one is lead by the holy spirit then we are above law . Galatians 5:1 says about the freedom in Christ

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  27. I left cpm/tpm fifty years ago. I tend to agree with the pre tribulation rapture. This is not a revelation given to Alwin. It has has been taught by very godly men, long before ALWIN THE HERATIC. Alwin picked ths up from the many books he read.Our salvation is full and complete. Do we the complete in Christ,
    the bride of Christ, go thru the tribulation, and what for. THOSE of us who
    totally complete in Christ by the one sacrifice on Calvarys cross, need another refining, by becoming a tribulation martyr? Is the sacrifice of Christ
    on Calvary insufficient, and lacking for our total redemption, and perfection?

    Jesus comes with his saints after the last trump to set up the Millennium.
    These saints are those who were raptured before the tribulation.

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    1. Dear Sam
      Whatever the level of the Godly men whom you are following, should you not be following the scripture(Acts 17:11)? Why are you not able to give even one scripture which says that the second coming of Christ will happen BEFORE TRIBULATION? I am not asking you for many scripture passages. I am asking you for 1. Just 1.


      You have a flawed understanding of Christ’s sacrifice and our Salvation. There is no point in sticking to something that is a fiction of some western preachers. I say most of western Christians are following a false gospel are NOT SAVED AT ALL. The same flawed gospel is propagated by Prosperity preachers throughout the world and people are drinking that poison without any discernment. That kind of flawed Gospel does not go well with Christians in Persecution prone areas of Middle East, Pakistan, Egypt, China, North Korea etc.

      Alternatively, find me ONE(1) Verse which says that We Christians will not have to go through persecution or Tribulation because Christ underwent Tribulation. Bring me that ONE Verse.


      Quiz: Can you find even 1 Godly Person who has supported or taught the Pre-Tribulation Rapture before 1838 A D?

      3+
  28. This is in reference with the QUIZ posed by ADMN brother.
    That one Godly man -John Nelson Darby ,that I came to know through this site .
    This was ably supported by Wikipedia website.

    Pre-tribulation rapture theology was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby and the” Plymouth Brethren,”and further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible.

    The Scofield Reference Bible is a widely circulated study Bible edited and annotated by the American Bible student Cyrus I. Scofield, which popularized dispensationalism at the beginning of the 20th century. Published by Oxford University Press and containing the entire text of the traditional, Protestant King James Version, it first appeared in 1909 and was revised by the author in 1917.

    During this time (1827-28) he joined an interdenominational meeting of believers (including Anthony Norris Groves, Edward Cronin, J. G. Bellett, and Francis Hutchinson) who met to “break bread” together in Dublin as a symbol of their unity in Christ. By 1832, this group had grown and began to identify themselves as a distinct Christian assembly. As they traveled and began new assemblies in Ireland and England, they formed the movement now known as the Plymouth Brethren.
    One notable feature about this Godly man was he flat refused to participate for a meeting held in connection with KJV Bible.
    Here is another exerpt from the web site:
    ” He declined, however, to contribute to the compilation of the Revised Version of the King James Bible even though the revisers consulted Darby’s work.[14]
    Criticism”
    CHARLES .H.SPURGEON was his contemporary Godly ma that we can also refer.
    He was critical of Darby and his Brethern Mission.
    Here is another exerpt of itL
    “Charles Haddon Spurgeon, Pastor of the Metropolitan Tabernacle and contemporary of Darby, published criticism of Darby and Brethrenism. His main criticism was that Darby and the Plymouth Brethren rejected the vicarious purpose of Christ’s obedience as well as imputed righteousness. He viewed these of such importance and so central to the Gospel that it led him to publish this statement about the rest of their belief in the” Sword and Trowel.”
    The Sword & Trowel magazine was started in 1865 by C. H. Spurgeon.

    Currently it enjoys an extensive readership throughout the world, especially among ministers and church leaders.

    James Grant wrote: “With the deadly heresies entertained and taught by the Plymouth Brethren, in relation to some of the most momentous of all the doctrines of the Gospel, and to which I have adverted at some length, I feel assured that my readers will not be surprised at any other views, however unscriptural and pernicious they may be, which the Darbyites have embraced and zealously seek to propagate”

    Now what all I produced above is the collection from the history books.
    I am fully convinced that TPM CULT had been heavily weighed by ‘DARBYISM’ since beginning days. CHARLES H. SPURGEON & JAMES GRANT were his critics.

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    1. The Fiercest disagreements that John Nelson Darby had within the Plymouth Brethren was with the Famous George Müller. While George Müller held to the Post-Trib View Darby went ahead and propagated his new theology against all scriptural writings. This resulted in the Split of the Plymouth Brethren.

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  29. Wonderful to know about the man of God -GEORGE MULLER also sailed with the same boat of POST TRIB that we are sailing now.( with the exception of some of our brethren like Sam Alangaramoney and many more —-no issue for us– we love them too — let them keep their views till it is revealed to them ).

    Here is a beautiful piece of excerpt on GEORGE MULLER’S faith life that I collected for the glory of God.
    “Once, while crossing the Atlantic on the SS Sardinian in August 1877, his ship ran into thick fog. He explained to the captain that he needed to be in Quebec by the following afternoon, but Captain Joseph E. Dutton (later known as “Holy Joe”) said that he was slowing the ship down for safety and Müller’s appointment would have to be missed. Müller asked to use the chartroom to pray for the lifting of the fog. The captain followed him down, claiming it would be a waste of time. After Müller prayed a very simple prayer, the captain started to pray, but Müller stopped him; partly because of the captain’s unbelief, but mainly because he believed the prayer had already been answered. Müller said, “Captain, I have known my Lord for more than fifty years and there is not one instance that I have failed to have an audience with the King. Get up, Captain, for you will find that the fog has gone.” When the two men went back to the bridge, they found the fog had lifted, and Müller was able to keep his appointment. The captain became a Christian shortly afterwards.
    Müller’s faith in God strengthened day by day and he spent hours in daily prayer and Bible reading. Indeed, it was his practice, in later years, to read through the entire Bible –FOUR TIMES IN A YEAR. Amazing feat indeed! even in that busy schedule of his heavy ORPHANAGE work and taking care of the POOR and NEEDY (He cared for 10,024 orphans during his lifetime,and provided educational opportunities for the orphans to the point that he was even accused by some of raising the poor above their natural station in British life. He established 117 schools which offered Christian education to more than 120,000)
    Can any CULT missions and ministries that recently changed their name plate to “society” even match 10% of this man of God’s prayer and faith life? No, not all.
    These CULTS missions targets are something different that we ‘ve got no clue.
    Anyway, the KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS is the ultimate rewarder of each one of our endeavours while we strive in this world.

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