Rapture Series – Pre-Trib vs Post Trib – 5

This part of the rapture series is a deviation from our earlier articles where we were refuting the document of Richard L Mayhue. This is because of a special request by Bro John Wesly who wanted to know our view about the Seven Orders of Resurrection as taught by TPM. As Richard does not bother about that TPM Specific topic, we are obliged to insert this article for our readers in TPM churches.

Let us see what TPM Teaches in their Sunday school regarding this topic. This is an excerpt from Std 9 chapters 13 and 14


  1. The First Order: The Lord Jesus Christ
    (I Cor.15:20). He knew no sin (II Cor.5:21). He did no sin (I Pet.2:22). In Him was no sin (I Jn.3:5). He was holy, harmless and undefiled (Heb.7:26). He was tried and tempted and found upright (Heb.4:15).
  2. The Second Order :The Church which is known by such names as the glorious Church (Eph.5:27), the perfected saints (Eph.4:12,13), the victorious manchild (Rev.12:5), the perfect in Christ Jesus (Col.1:28), and those wholly sanctified in body, soul and spirit
    (I Thess.5:23).

At the Secret Coming of our Lord, the dead among them will be resurrected first and then they that are alive will be transformed and caught up to meet the Lord in the air (I Thess. 4:16,17).

  1. The Third Order: The martyrs of the Tribulation period (Rev.7:9-14; 14:14-16). They are those who are not caught up at the Secret Coming of Jesus but are left behind. They are persecuted by the Antichrist and die as martyrs. They are referred to as the ‘wise virgins’ who go forth to meet Jesus when He comes with His Bride (Matt. 25:1-10). They will be resurrected at the end of the first three and a half years of the Tribulation. Jesus will appear in a cloud to gather these martyrs.
  2. The Fourth Order: The two witnesses (Enoch and Elijah) (Rev.11:3-12). Their resurrection will take place during the second three and a half years of the Tribulation. Enoch and Elijah who were taken up without tasting death, will return to the earth to preach during this period and will be killed by the Antichrist, and will then be raised up, after three and a half days. They are the firstfruits of the Old Testament.
  3. The Fifth Order: All the saints of the Old Testament and the general martyrs (Rev.11:18,19; 6:9-11). They will be resurrected at the end of seven years’ tribulation, when Jesus comes with His saints, to reign on this earth for a thousand years, and every eye shall see Him.

    In the order of Resurrection, the sixth and seventh orders are called the ‘Second Resurrection’. This takes place after the Millennial Reign at the White Throne Judgment.

    A great white throne is set in heaven and Jesus sits on it. Heaven and earth flee away from His presence and all the dead, small and great, stand before Him. The books are opened and the book of life also is opened. The dead are judged out of those things which are written in the books according to their works (Rev.20:11,12; Matt.25:31-46).

  4. The Sixth Order: Those who are saved and whose names are written in the book of life but are not partakers of the First resurrection, are raised up in the sixth order and they inherit eternal life (New Earth) (Rev.20:13-15; Matt.25:31-40).
  5. The Seventh Order: The wicked whose names are not written in the book of life are raised up and they go away into everlasting punishment (Lake of Fire). (Rev.20:13-15; Matt.25:41-46).

I think that TPM has a fixation with Number 7. Therefore they had to put up the seven resurrections just as they have the Seven Steps of Salvation. Therefore, we need to just study the scriptures if this doctrine matches with the intent of the scriptures. Unfortunately, they could not find Seven Places in Eternity. Therefore they had to stop with Five. I am sure, that People like Teju and MT Thomas will invent new places to fill up the gap.

You can take your time and go through the references that are quoted in the TPM Sunday School Book. I do not see them anyway identifying any particular resurrection apart from the ones in Revelation 20 and 1 Thess 4 which are the same. The rest are all their inventions. Please be serious to go through those scriptures and identify different Orders of Resurrection as taught by TPM. I could not find those seven orders as taught by TPM.

Resurrections as per the Bible

Any serious Bible Student will not be able to ignore 1 Cor 15:23 to build up any doctrine about Resurrection. What we see in the TPM Sunday School book is amazing as they have chosen to ignore the contents of this verse as it DOES NOT SUPPORT their SEVEN ORDERS of RESURRECTION.

 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterwards they that are Christ’s at his coming1 Cor 15:23

Rapture Series – Pre-Trib vs Post Trib – 5In a very plain sentence, Paul is saying that the people who belong to Christ will be resurrected at his coming. He does not split resurrections into multiple layers and multiple comings. What is so difficult to understand in the above verse unless you want to confuse people with your agenda?

In our earlier articles, we had clearly explained that there is no Secret Coming and there is only One Coming and that will be on the Day of the Lord. In the same day, Jesus will comfort the Troubled Ones and recompense the ones who troubled his church through Tribulations.

You may read the following articles to know about that.

The Day of Resurrection

The Resurrection happens on the Last day of this age.  That day is a 1000 year long day(Rev 20:4-6, 2 Pet 3:8) and on that day you will not be able to distinguish between night and day(Zechariah 14:1,6-7). That day is also called the Last Day. This same day has been referred to as the Day of the Lord too. The Righteous will be resurrected at the beginning of the  Last day and the Wicked will be resurrected after the Last Day. The resurrection of the Righteous is called the FIRST RESURRECTION(Rev 20:5 ) and the Wicked are resurrected at the White Throne Judgement( Rev 20:12-13 ). As far as I see, there are only Two More resurrections and they are separated by 1000 years. These two resurrections are also mentioned in Daniel 12: 2, Acts 24:15, John 5:28-29.

As mentioned in Matthew 24:29-31 we know that this Last day starts with Cosmic signs. As per TPM, Four resurrections would already have been completed by then. But they have no scripture to back up their statements. Now listen to what Jesus said. This is important for you and me.

Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY.  John 6:54

Do you think that Jesus is going to come before that Last Day and raise up a few TPM Saints and Believers 7 years before that? Now let us continue with few more verses about the Last Day Resurrection.

And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing but should raise it up again at the LAST DAY. John 6:39

 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY. John 6:40

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY. John 6:44

This same resurrection in the Last Day is explained by Paul in 1 Thess 4:13-18. TPM Needs to know that every new reference in the bible about a topic does not require a new classification as they have done with Resurrection and many other doctrines.

Because he hath appointed a day(The Last Day/The Day of the Lord), in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead(the first fruit Jesus). Acts 17:31

My Question to ardent TPM Devotees.

Now that you know Jesus will raise his people at the LAST DAY which is after the Tribulation period. How do you plan to be resurrected before the tribulation period? All kinds of replies are welcome.

Conclusion

TPM is caught in a Catch 22 situation. As they have already allocated places for different people in eternity, they are forced to split the resurrection of people too. The scripture does not come with all those weird categorizations. It always comes with simple formulas and easy to understand concepts. Needless to say, TPM complicates simple things to exploit their ignorant believers. Better late than never.

Listen to this audio and let me know your comments.

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Rating: 5

10 Comments on “Rapture Series – Pre-Trib vs Post Trib – 5”

  1. After seeing the beautiful interaction from the interested few and proactive approach taken by ADMN brother in shifting the gears for quickly dispelling many fallacies from readers minds , one would commend him and certainly wonders how the same Holly Spirit God was pin pointing clearly for the future ‘CHEATS’ that would deprive the whole mankind the SALVATION of the Lord by appearing in the form of these CULTs and its ministry..
    Its’ really heartening to see even the heart of David could feel for the impending perils lurking in 20/21 st centuries. as we read the Psalms of David .
    Though David wrote those Psalms keeping in view of his constant attack from his enemies,they are very much mirror images for these present times.
    As a sample survey I glanced through the Psalms, and they are quite revealing as to how they reflect the true nature and the behavior pattern of these CULTS.
    ‘ I am not afraid of ten thousands of people who have set themselves against me round about’—-Psalms 3;6,
    ‘ Arise O Lord!,Deliver me,O, my God;For thou dost smite all my enemies on the cheek,’———7 th verse
    ‘Deliverence belongs to the Lord;thy blessing be upon thy people!—8 th verse.
    There are so many other host of verses that David is speaking but for the space constraint I do restrain.

    Kudos to ADMN brother and his team for the relentless fight they are doing.

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  2. Thanks Bro for the write up.. its really a mind blowing article. I couldnt think of anything to refute, what is been explained here. One more question remains – So how do you explain the ressurection of Hanock and Elijah? Will that also happen at the Last Day?. There seems to be something missing as we see they coming somewhere in the middle of the tribulation period, isnt it so? Also Bro, if there are no orders of ressurection, how could we explain “In my Fathers house there are many mansions, else i would have told”. What is the relevence of different places like Zion, New Jerusalem, New Heaven,etc…(i am asking from a TPM perspective, pls dont take it personal). There should only be a generic Heaven and Hell. What is ‘Kingdom of the Father’ and ‘What is the Kingdom of his Dear Son’ as taught in TPM’. Hope all those will be clearly described by the time you finish the series. Waiting for your next article on the same topic.
    Moreover i have heard some messages of Mike Winger as you reffered his name in one of your article, especially His”Jesus in the old testment” is really fantastic.
    Also Is there any chance to get the audio clip which you have put in this article? Who is the preacher, if i may know? Thank You.

    Rating: 5
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    1. @john Wesly
      Let me know where did you get this terminology of “Middle of the Tribulation Period“. Unless you are brainwashed by TPM that the tribulation period is 7 years, you will never come to this conclusion. Nowhere in the scripture, you will get a 7 Year period Tribulation. Please try to get it and then we can discuss the “Something Missing”.
      Yes, the two witnesses will also resurrect/transform along with the others in the LAST DAY. This includes all of Old Testament Saints too.
      But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days(Last day). Daniel 12:13


      As far as the Many Mansions story is concerned, I have already given replies in earlier comments. You can click the below links to read it.
      https://www.fromtpm.com/blog/2019/06/03/truth-realization-from-tpm-sr-pastor/#comment-15355
      https://www.fromtpm.com/blog/2017/10/12/letter-to-the-chief-clergy-from-a-tpm-believer-in-australia/#comment-5132


      As far as different classifications of the heavenly kingdoms by TPM, you need to ask them why do they keep classifying(splitting hairs) based on names when the intent is clear to any normal reader. Is not their job to keep confusing people with their acrobatics? If you read Matt 19:23-24, Jesus himself interchanges two terminologies to mean the same thing. Why does TPM suppose these are two entirely different things?


      To get the clip you may need to write to me at admin@fromtpm.com or send me your WhatsApp number.

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      1. Bro, Thanks for the reply. My Whats app No i have emailed you
        Pls do not get upset bcoz i keep on asking reply on a TPM perspective. I was born and brought up in TPM so i could ask you counter questions only based on something which i have heard from long :).
        About the seven year period as you said i could not find any precise verses to support it but as i gone through some of the publications of TPM including voice of the pentecost, What i could find is the following:
        The supporting verse they say is Dan 9: 27(its in a book called Great Tribulations Q&E page .9 Q.5). It says jews enter in to a covenant for a WEEK which they translate as 7yrs, but i dont know for what reason its been translated as 7 years(might be something in Hebrew or ?? god knows). Have you got any sources to find y its been translated as 7 years?

        Another wordings i found on internet is as follows, of which also i am not fully satisfied with their calculation part:
        “Daniel 9:24 speaks of a period of time that God has given “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” God declares that “seventy sevens” will fulfill all these things. This is 70 sevens of years, or 490 years. (Some translations refer to 70 weeks of years.) This is confirmed by another part of this passage in Daniel. In verses 25 and 26, Daniel is told that the Messiah will be cut off after “seven sevens and sixty-two sevens” (69 total), beginning with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. In other words, 69 sevens of years (483 years) after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, the Messiah will be cut off. Biblical historians confirm that 483 years passed from the time of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the time when Jesus was crucified. Most Christian scholars, regardless of their view of eschatology (future things/events), have the above understanding of Daniel’s 70 sevens.
        With 483 years having passed from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the cutting off of the Messiah, this leaves one seven-year period to be fulfilled in terms of Daniel 9:24: “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” This final seven-year period is known as the tribulation period—it is a time when God finishes judging Israel for its sin.”

        MOREOVER
        next supporting verse is Rev 13:5 “………and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months” which is translated as 3.5 years. But still i couldnt find 7 years. Ofcourse i am not in any means an expert in verses.
        Would like to hear from you what is your view on the above.

        About the Verse which you have mentioned of Matt 19:23-24, further down we see peter asking what shall we get as we have forsaken everything. Then he says they will get 12 thrones and sits with him judging the people of Israel…Can we say they that left everything for Jesus is getting a privilaged position in afterlife, which TPM says is Zion. In the verse its saying only 12 thrones but yet below that verse it says “all those who forsake will get hundredfold” but not saying about thrones. I think this is also one of the reasons they consider servants of god as privilaged, i dont know i am not sure.

        Sorry Bro, i just keep on asking you Q its just becoz you have started a good work and you are always welcoming questions and you take time and effort to clarify those which is really appreciable. I am not on any side but just trying to get answers bcoz you always gives a clarification. You very well know what happens if we go directly and ask questions like these on face in our church :).

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        1. @John Wesly
          Brother you are doing a good job by asking questions. We are here to answer you all of your questions. We are NOT UPSET about it. That is because we want you to know the truth. Keep asking as much as you like. Sometimes answers may be delayed because of time constraints.


          AS far as Daniel Chapter 9 Explanation is concerned, we have already given the details. Click Here to go to that article and scroll down for the Daniel Seventy Week Twist Section.
          On a very simple note, please try to read Daniel 9:24-27 and try to answer which week was Christ Crucified 69th or 70th? When you try to answer it, you will understand the problem.


          Matt 19:28-29
          After Jesus promised each apostles that they will get to judge a tribe, Jesus went on to say something very important. He was quite upset about the attitude of his apostles and that is why he said the parable to let them know that their rewards are not based on the sacrifice. For that you need to continue reading. Read especially from the last verse of Matt 19 to Matt 20:16 where he is concreting that rewards are not based on what you think. He repeats that The First Shall be Last and the Last shall be First. Jesus also is saying that people who serve him without any expectations and conditions will receive much more than what they are even entitled to(to the surprise of those who expected much). Think of the scenario of TPM Clergy who keeps harping of their so-called contract with Jesus and expect some Zion. TPM has blinded many people with cherry picked verses out of context. If you have some questions on that, please get back to me.

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  3. Brilliant article…hope this will provoke at least a few intelligent TPM followers of this site to cross examine the material presented here.

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  4. Before I forward my comments on this EPISODE, would like to extend greetings to every child of God in the glorious name of the SAVIOUR and send a few lines to POETRY lovers only .Just relax and rejoice with me .

    AUTHOR UNKNOWN

    “I got up early one morning
    And rushed right into the day;
    I had so much to accomplish
    That I didn’t have time to pray.

    Problems just tumbled about me,
    And heavier came each task;
    “Why doesn’t God help me?” I wondered.
    He answered, “You didn’t ask.”

    I wanted to see joy and beauty
    But the day toiled on gray and bleak
    I wondered why God didn’t show me
    He said, “But you didn’t seek”,

    I tried to come into God’s presence;
    I used all my keys in the lock.
    God gently and lovingly chided,
    “My child, you didn’t knock.”

    I woke up early this morning,
    And paused before entering the day;
    I had so much to accomplish
    That I had to take time to pray.

    author unknown
    =====================================================
    ‘Am sure the 5th stanza that contains those 4 lines
    could be tried with our own experimentation how
    Our SAVIOUR saved us from the world of cults,& witch-crafts
    And that our REDEEMER brought us safe to the living waters!

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  5. Bro, sorry another question for you 🙂

    When we say about resurrection from the dead. We can see resurrection of Jesus happening First.

    Secondly, How do you explain Rev Chap 12? Who is the Man child being taken up to heaven?? TPM says the woman is “CHURCH” and man child being the Victorious Ones (Bride) and thereby 2nd Order as its a separate event apart from THE LAST DAY and they teach its the event called “Rapture” as this Man child is caught up to GOD and to his throne becoz even St.Paul in 1 Thess 4 says “then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air”. How do you describe “Dead in Christ” bcoz TPM says its the bride or the one who gone through all steps of salvation. does that include old testament saints?

    I think, i may be wrong, as you said in Rap & Trib -7, paul had a clear view of his martyrdom during his end of times, but the above words shows he believed that Jesus would come anytime and who are alive could be caught up to meet the lord in the air?

    Thirdly, We could see the TWO Witnesses being killed and on the third day being resurrected and the whole world watches it. So, even that is seen as an happening apart from the final Resurrection (or before the event in 1 Thess 4) as you were saying. We see only these 2 get resurrected and ascending to heaven.

    Even though we could not find a mentioning of 7yrs tribulation period, we see in Rev 13:5 a period of 3.5yrs mentioning – hope its saying about tribulation. Also in Rev 12:14 we see a time being allocated for the woman which is 3.5yrs…..

    TPM preaches Its the Pastors (or the one who left everything) who are 144,000 standing in Mt.Zion having His Fathers Name on their Foreheads. What is your view on Rev Chap 14?? Ps 87:5-6 says about a numbering of Zion? Moreover Rev 14 Its saying they are not defiled with Woman? These were redeemed from among men? What does this mean?

    How do you explain this? Looking for your reply Bro.

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    1. Brother
      TPM has a very flawed understanding of Rev 12. Their understanding does not sync up with scriptures. The explanation of the characters has been part of an earlier discussion and was given in another comment earlier. Click here to see it.


      Please read 1 Thess 2:1-5 and let me know if Paul taught an ANYTIME Rapture? In fact, he says such teaching is deceptive(vs 3). The Great Tribulation period will roughly be 3.5 years.


      As far as the two witnesses are concerned, this is an event that happens at the end of the Tribulation period. However, their resurrection is close to the Lazarus type resurrection, unlike the Jesus type resurrection. Note the wordings in vs 11 where the spirit of life(Ruach-breath of life) from God enters within them. This is the same manner we see the spirit(Ruach) gave life to Adam(Gen 2:7). Therefore, very soon they will also receive the immortal body at the Last Day BY THE VOICE OF JESUS(John 5:28,1 Thess 4:16) along with the rest. Both these events are very close though. In that resurrection/transformation, the last enemy “DEATH” will be put down (1 Cor 15:26).

      Finally, we should never build doctrines based on interpretation of revelation passages which are cryptic in nature.
      We should be ensuring that our interpretation of revelation should never conflict with other scriptures which are clearly spelt out. That is a point where TPM goofed up.


      It’s amusing that TPM clergy says they are “redeemed from among men”. Are you and I redeemed from among animals? All redemption is from the sinfil mankind. We are made Kings and Priests unto him. Peter reminds us of our status in 1 Pet 2:9

      But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
      This is the inheritance for all of us. THE TPM WHITE CLADS ARE MISINTERPRETING TO RULE OVER YOU.

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    2. @ John Wesely
      @//TPM preaches Its the Pastors (or the one who left everything) who are 144,000 standing in Mt.Zion having His Fathers Name on their Foreheads. What is your view on Rev Chap 14??//

      Roman Catholics and orthodox church monks/nun have also forsaken their homes and entered celibacy ministry. They have been doing this from past 1500 years. I need you to reply me why are they not Zion? Their are celibate monks in every religion since 1000’s of years who left everything to preach their religion. Does taking up you cross and following Jesus means to be one like them (monks/ hermit) or does it signify death to old man by forsaking old man in baptism ? Read Romans 6:3-6

      @ ///Moreover Rev 14 Its saying they are not defiled with Woman? These were redeemed from among men? What does this mean?///

      Woman in this case is apostate or fallen church, mentioned in revelation 17-18. Not being defiled by her is not being defiled by espousing false heretical teachings.

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