Rapture Series – Pre-Trib vs Post Trib – 2

When you have already bought into a doctrine, you will evaluate contrarian doctrines in the same frame of mind. You will try to ignore all other valid points because you do not like the outcome they are leading you into. This is the same case as the author(Richard L. Mayhue )of this document.  Click here to access that document. Note the below texts, he is finding reasons to validate his stand when he knows the scripture does not support him.

Page 4 (244) of the said document


The Rapture Is Rendered Inconsequential if It Is Posttribulational
First, if God miraculously preserves the church through the tribulation, why have a rapture? If it is to avoid the wrath of God at Armageddon, then why would God not continue to protect the saints on earth (as is postulated by post-tribulationism) just as He protected Israel (see Exod 8:22; 9:4, 26; 10:23; 11:7) from His wrath poured out upon Pharaoh and Egypt. Further, if the purpose of the rapture is for
living saints to avoid Armageddon, why also resurrect the saints who are already immune at the same time? Second, if the rapture will take place in connection with the Lord’s post-tribulational coming, the subsequent separation of the sheep from the goats (see Matt. 25:31ff.) will be redundant. The separation will have taken place in the very act of translation.

Third, if all tribulation believers are raptured and glorified just prior to the inauguration of the millennial Kingdom, who then will populate and propagate the Kingdom? The Scriptures indicate that the living unbelievers will be judged at the end of the tribulation and removed from the earth (see Matt 13:41-42; 25:41). Yet, they also teach that children will be born to believers during the millennium and that
these children will be capable of sin (see Isa 65:20; Rev 20:7-10). This will not be possible if all believers on earth have been glorified through a post-tribulational rapture.

Fourth, the post-tribulational paradigm of the church being raptured and then immediately brought back to earth leaves no time for the Bema, i.e., the Judgment Seat of Christ to occur (1 Cor 3:10-15; 2 Cor 5:10), nor for the Marriage Supper (Rev 19:6-10). Thus, it can be concluded that a post-tribulational time of the rapture makes no logical sense, is incongruous with the sheep-goat nation judgment, and,
in fact, eliminates two critical end-time events. A pre-tribulational rapture avoids all of these insurmountable difficulties.


First, if God miraculously preserves the church through the tribulation, why have a rapture?

This first sentence sums up all his question of the first paragraph.  Mine only advise to people having such a viewpoint is to read and understand the Post-Tribulation Stand. The Post-Tribulation doctrine does not believe in the preservation of the life of Church Members. We believe that most of the true Christians will be Martyred for the cause of Christ. If people are being Martyred, where did he get the understanding that we will be “Preserved from physical Death”?

The Bible says that the people who died in the Tribulation period are UNCOUNTABLE.

After this, I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. …….

13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”   And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.     Rev 7:9,13,14

Jesus says that if those days will not be shortened, none of us will be saved.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake, those days shall be shortened.  Matt 24:21-22

True Christians are expected not to save their own lives. If you are expecting to save your own life, you are indeed not saved.

For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it.  Matt 16:25

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matt 10:28

We are expected to overcome the tribulation being a testimony for Jesus. In the process, if we lose our life. So be it.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives unto the death.  Rev 12:11

The Purpose of Tribulation

The author Richard L. Mayhue has quoted from Matt 25 and Matt 13 regarding few parables of Jesus. As he is not able to place these incidents in his own perspective, he says Post – Trib cannot be true. Let us review this also.

Firstly, it needs to be pointed out that Tribulation is ONLY for HIS PEOPLE. It is not for the Gentiles. When we do not understand the purpose of tribulation, we end up with notions like that of the author of the document. Sadly most Christians, especially in the West, are brought up with that kind of teaching. I know of people who even believe in post-trib doctrine but have started accumulating water and food to overcome the 3.5 years of tribulation. They try to overcome God’s purpose by their smartness. But does God want you to overcome tribulation by such means? Is that what you understood from Jesus?

Rapture Series – Pre-Trib vs Post Trib – 2Tribulation is a period of time where the wheat will be separated from the tares (Matt 13:40-43) The Character of a person is revealed when he is put through tests. Externally, the tares look like the wheat. The fruits are revealed when you test the ears. The parable of wheat and tares in Matt 13 is all about that. He will purify his kingdom by separating the Real from the Fake.  The tribulation will bring out the real person within you. If you are the real one or the fake one, it will be revealed as a result of tribulation. The Tares will leave Christ as a result of Tribulation. When Christ comes, he will declare who belongs to him and who were the seeds of the devil planted in his land.

Note the below verses which proves that the tares were growing within his kingdom, unlike the Gentiles who are outside.

The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of HIS kingdom(The tares were in the kingdom of Jesus) everything that causes sin and all who do evil. Matt 13:41

However, in Matt 25, we see that there are an eternal reward and an eternal punishment. Moreover the “Goat people” also are calling him Lord. This gives an indication that they knew Jesus but followed after their own selfish ways. Therefore, I would place this event within the millennium. Most probably at the end of the millennial reign rather than at the second coming of Jesus or battle of Armageddon.

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne (Note that this event is after he starts his millennial reign).  Matt 25:31

The above verse makes it amply clear that this is not an event that should be connected with tribulation. This scenario is more in sync with the great white throne judgment of Rev 20:11-15.

If you are under any illusion that you will be reigning with Christ without suffering with him, you are in a miserable situation.

If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 2 Tim 2:12

When you look at tribulation from God’s point of view, it is a great tool to make you better. It will test you to the extreme. In the first three centuries of Christianity, tribulation was a norm. Everybody underwent tribulation. Do you know that in the Council of Nicea of 325 AD, all the Bishops who attended it, had one or more limbs missing as a result of severe torture they underwent?

And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;  and patience, experience; and experience, hope: and hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. Rom 5:3-5

But today’s Christians who have all the comforts offered by modern living has issues when we say that we will go through the tribulation. They are exceedingly fearful. Therefore, they take refuge in a doctrine that promises them an escape from Tribulation. They think God loves them more than he loved the early Christians who suffered all kinds of torture for Christ. How logical is that thinking?

Who will populate the earth?

The Pre-Trib proponents always worry about some supposed issue because they have understood the scriptures in their Darby-Scofield University. The below statement by the author needs to be addressed


Third, if all tribulation believers are raptured and glorified just prior to the inauguration of the millennial Kingdom, who then will populate and propagate the Kingdom? The Scriptures indicate that the living unbelievers will be judged at the end of the tribulation and removed from the earth (see Matt 13:41-42; 25:41).


As discussed in the previous section, the scriptures indicate that the Tares are False Christians who got into the church. They got offended by the tribulation and went out. Nowhere in the above scriptures, you can find this applied to the rest of the World. This is one big assumption of the pre-trib camp which has caused an immense problem with their theology. Therefore they think that Jesus is going to annihilate the 6+ billion people from the earth. They think Jesus is a destroyer of Planet earth’s population. Scripture does not support any of those viewpoints.  This is the result of an assumption that the Anti-Christ figure will rule the entire world. However, such a view is not supported by the scriptures. All that Jesus will do is, execute vengeance on the enemies.  Let us look at the scriptures to get a better picture.

We see in the Bible(Rev 16:12, Dan 11:44) that the Kings of the East(possibly China, Japan, and India) and The Kings of The North(Possibly Europe, Russia, and North America) opposing and fighting the AntiChrist during the end times.

44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. Daniel 11:44

And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared Rev 16:22

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs, he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.  Rev 19:19-21

Clearly its not the entire population of the world which will be judged by Jesus. We need to understand that the AntiChrist figure will have direct dominion only over 10 kingdoms. He may have indirect dominion and power over many nations. However, it would be quite preposterous to assume that he will rule the entire world. There would be many in opposition to him other than that of Christians.

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemyRev 13:1

Therefore it does not need any great brainwave to understand that those people who were opposing Anti-Christ(non-Christians) are the ones that will populate the earth. Later on, over a period of thousand years, the population will keep growing and these same people will be siding with Satan for the Battle of Gog/Magog against Jesus.

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. Rev 20:7-8

Pre-Trib Theology categorizes Christians into two sections. The Higher section is the ones who will be raptured and the lower section are the ones who will be saved during the tribulation. They assume that the lower kind of Christians will populate the earth for the higher ones to rule. This is an insult to Jesus who gave his life for the entire mankind without any categorization. Moreover, it is a doctrine which thinks that the salvation offered by Jesus is weak and fragile as they assume these people to join in a rebellion against Jesus after 1000 years.

Conclusion

Just as the previous point, in this one also the author of that document tries to push in his assumptions and doctrines over clear scriptural passages of Post – Tribulational return of Christ as mentioned in Matt 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 and 2 Thess 2.

People who do not have scriptural support will have to weave stories to canvas people. Pre-Tribulation doctrine is another such an attempt. They want to inherit the kingdom without any trials and tribulations. They will do well to heed what Apostle Peter says.

Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you.13 But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. 14 If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. 15 If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler.16 However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. 17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 And,

“If it is hard for the righteous to be saved,
    what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”[a]

19 So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.   1 Peter 4:12-19

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5 Comments on “Rapture Series – Pre-Trib vs Post Trib – 2”

  1. Good article and that’s true, I was a pretrib for many years and God helped me to see this truth. it will be a shock to many and many will leave faith when in reality they face. Since they are not prepared for it spiritually, mentally as they are comforted with idea of being taken away before it happens and that will be the real test of faith.

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  2. Good one Brother, it would be great if you could also shine the light into the darkness of the teaching of the imminent return of Christ. This teaching is used by most cults to keep their slaves under control and TPM is a master in this art.

    It is very hard for one who has been indoctrinated with these teachings to even explore the possibilities of other alternatives let alone accept that they were wrong all along.

    Just placing the facts out in the open will prompt genuine seekers to do their own research and then make an informed decision about these teachings which is hard to digest because of our presuppositions.

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  3. Bro, one of the verses being told in connection with Rapture by TPM is Jn 14: 1-4 “I go to prepare a place for you. And if i go and prepare a place for you, i will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where i am , there ye may be also. And wither i go ye know, and the way ye know”????

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