Episode 9- Eloping Couple
Recap: In the last episode we saw Molly and Daisy stayed in the faith home. Next day the centre mother arranged the driver worker brother to drop the girls at the railway station.
We see Daisy and Molly standing in the queue at the ticket counter. They purchase unreserved sleeper tickets. Daisy knows that if they will request the TTE, he will allow them at least one seat. They’ll have to pay the fine, plus some extra money, but that is better than travelling in the general compartment. Daisy is confident that this will work because it usually works in appachen’s (centre pastor) case. Centre Pastor will never book a ticket in advance. He usually pays extra money to the TTE or agent to get a seat. For example, if AC ticket is 2500, then he will give 1500 more and get a confirmed seat. In this way, although he gives 4000 Rs. instead of 2500, yet he can travel comfortably at least. Thank God for the Tithe doctrine, there are people who ensure luxury travel for our Pastors.
And when Joseph and her father would return from helping pastor carry luggage as he boards the train, then Joseph would mimic pastor talking to TTE. Joseph would mimic the pastor by saying “Hello sir!! Please give me one seat! We are God’s servant. If you give me one seat God will bless you.” And then Joseph would roll on the floor laughing. Their entire family finds pastor’s trick of promising blessing to TTE, amusing. Joseph also noted that if there are other believers to see him off, the Pastor boards the Sleeper coach to show that he is travelling as a common person. Later on, he shifts to the AC Bogie, once the train has departed the station.
It gets more hilarious the way Joseph imitates pastor by making faces. So Daisy is confident of getting confirmed seating arrangements. Yes, she is not as rich as centre pastor to give Rs. 4000 for travel, but she can pay 250 more for sleeper class and get comfortable travel. Molly and the lost girl now head to platform no. 8 and wait for the train to arrive. As the train arrives they find the TTE and request him for a reservation. TTE looks in his paper and asks them to sit at 32, 33 in S7. It is a side lower and side upper birth. Molly and Daisy both get seated in the lower deck. The Train catches up full speed within a few minutes. We see Molly watching facebook on her phone and Daisy busy in WhatsApp.
Molly: I can’t find you on Facebook. Send me a request and I will add you as my friend.
Daisy: I don’t have a Facebook account.
Molly: You should create one. We can keep in touch with each other. We can connect with our school friends. It’s a great application.
Daisy: We should live a life of separation, instead of mingling with people. I used to have it earlier. But then when the Saints said that it is the tool of Devil, I promptly deleted it.
We see Molly’s eyebrow raised as if she was puzzled by Daisy’s reply. Reading facial expression of Molly, Daisy can sense she has said something weird to Molly’s upbringing.
Molly: What is this “life of separation”? Is this any doctrine of the TPM church?
Daisy: Yes!! It was given to our saints by revelation!
Molly: Don’t you want to keep in touch with me? Will you forget me once I go far from you someday?
Daisy: No.. not like that.
Before she finishes. Molly continues to give her a piece of mind.
Molly: If that is so then I am really sorry that I made you a friend. It appears you are showing me love and friendship only because you need me now! Once I go far, you will forget me. Is this “life of separation” followed in by your church pastors?
Daisy tries to find words… but Molly continues…
Molly: Do your church pastors forget you, once they get far from you?
It struck daisy like a lightning bolt. All previous workers who had been transferred from her local faith home, have never called back to ask about their joys and sorrows. The love they show gets vanished as soon as they get transferred. Once when Daisy’s father met Br. Abraham, in Chennai convention, the expression on his face was as if he doesn’t know Daisy’s family. Daisy’s father was hurt. He expected Br. Abraham to give him a hug. Daisy’s father helped him when faith home was new in their town. He was a small bother then and believers could be counted on fingers. But now he has become a pastor and has forgotten the old days.
Bible says “God is not unrighteous to forget your labour of love, which you have showed towards his name in that ye have ministered to the saints…. (Heb 6:10);” but TPM workers who claim to be followers of God display completely antithesis behaviour to God. They soon become unrighteous to forget everything believers do for them in their difficult times. They soon find new believers and forget old ones and behave proudly as they rise to power. Daisy still remembers how her mother tried to pacify his father’s anger. She said, “Darling you know that they have to have no attachment with people; Is not this reason for which they are transferred in every two to three years!”
Daisy remembered how Joseph suggested showing some high denomination notes to make them remember who you are.
Molly (continues): Is this how apostles behaved? As far as I can recollect, Apostle Paul remembered and kept his believers in prayers, even after he was far from them (Rom 1:9, I Thess 1:2, II Tim 1:3). He even wrote letters to people remembering them, because he had a burden for them!
Daisy: No.. it’s not like that. Life of separation is different. God asked Israelites to stay away from heathen nations. Apostle Paul also says, what has a believer to do with an unbeliever?
Molly: So, am I unbeliever? Will I make you worship idols, if you connect with me on facebook?
Daisy: No! No.. Molly! You are not trying to understand me. When we maintain distance we don’t get temptations. We don’t feel attached emotionally. We can live a holy life. Attachments make servants of God leave TPM ministry.
Molly: I don’t understand what you are trying to say. Do you mean to say Paul’s attachment with Timothy and with the church at Thessalonica and with the church at Rome made him forsake the ministry of God?
Daisy: But the life of separation is doctrine given in both Old and New Testament. Why did God then command it?
Molly: “Life of separation” in the bible means to not to follow fashions of the world that are sinful. You are not to emulate worldly people in drinking, smoking, dancing in pubs, buying lands and property and gold as if this is the world we hope for. We should impact them and not otherwise is what life of separation means. It does not mean you don’t talk with Christians from other church churches. It is no way means not to open a facebook account and keep in touch with people whom we love! It does not mean you become unrighteous and forget how people loved in your evil days. You should have wisdom how to use tools in a wise way! Our Lord asked us to go into the World (Mark 16:15) and not to sit in a Monastery.
Daisy thinks she has screwed up the situation. She should have told her that Teju anna taught her not to make facebook account or else she will go to hell, but even that would have made her look foolish in eyes of Molly.
Daisy: I am sorry… I didn’t mean to hurt you, but some words slipped out of my tongue which I never intended. Please forgive…
Molly is really upset. She doesn’t say a word. She shakes her head in dismay over daisy’s theology.
Daisy: Molly, please…. Please… forgive me…
Molly: Ok, but don’t tell me again that your “life of separation” teaching makes you people holy. Don’t ever tell me that your “no attachment” teaching helps your church pastors stay in ministry. Let me assert you that by binding yourself inside four walls of the church, the lust of flesh will not go away. Binding people by rules of the church within four walls of church or faith home or whatever you call it is like sadhu sanyasi going on Himalaya or forest. And going away from external temptation does not heal the rottenness of the fallen nature of humanity. It is only by the power of the Holy Ghost in baptism that our natures ought to be changed. Any other means not prescribed in our bibles. Paul made it clear that all your rules of “do not touch,” “do not do this thing or that thing,” etc, are of no use to control your flesh(Col 2:21-23).
Daisy is amazed at bible knowledge of Molly. Molly, unlike Daisy, doesn’t attend so many meetings and conventions; but still, her Bible knowledge is phenomenal. On the other hand Daisy after attending bible studies regularly without fail and going to Sunday meetings and every convention is still pathetic when t comes to defend something from scriptures. In spite of all this, Daisy’s blind eyes refuse to open. Her pride in TPM doctrines oppose the idea of meditating on words of Molly. She prays to God to show Molly how the life of separation is a revelation given by God to TPM saints. She prays to God to show Molly how by the life of separation and “no attachment” rules of TPM, saints can live overcoming life!
They both get busy in their mobiles. It is getting dark. Soon God is going to show the girls how overcoming life TPM saints can live if they follow TPM’s list of do’s and don’ts without emphasis on inner conversion. There is a hawker selling food from the pantry. They buy egg-biryani and finish off their dinner. Daisy climbs on the upper birth and closes her eyes. The train stops at a station for one minute. A TPM brother boards train and occupy a seat on upper birth in front of Daisy. Daisy is not aware of this. The train chugs away from that station. A sound of the mobile phone ringing disturbs the serenity of the night. Brother opens his luggage and takes out mobile.
TPM minister: Hello! Praise the Lord.
The sound of praise the Lord awakens the soul of Daisy. Her eyelids instantaneously blink open as if a dead man was given a spark of life. She begins to look from the windows of her eyes. A TPM worker brother is sitting in front of the upper birth. He seems glued to his phone. His eyes are semi-closed as if he is trying to focus on voice from the other side. OMG! He is Pastor David – the famous TPM convention preacher.
David (TPM minister): I love you. I can’t live without you.
Daisy wanted to say “Praise the Lord;” but hearing his words “I love you”, she managed to control her freaking excitement in time. She immediately turns her back towards him trying to hide her reaction of seeing him. Her ears are now wide open to what he is talking on the phone. In spite of rustling sound of the train, she can clearly hear his words.
TPM minister: I have asked one believer to make arrangements for us. When moopathi sleeps, get out with your bags.
Scene: Pastor David is silent for some time coz he is listening to his partner in crime from the other end of the phone.
David (TPM minister): If they catch and force you to stay inside, I will file a police complaint. Do not fear them. God is on our side.
Daisy, by this time, has realized that the famous pastor is eloping with one of the TPM sisters. He has fallen deep into the abyss of “desires of human flesh.” She abhors the sinning saint. He who was once so much glorious to her sight has suddenly become untouchable to her. Her family would have once felt lucky had he visited her home; but now, they won’t even let his feet step on their holy grounds. It is a shame to even take his name on her lips. Backslider!!! Her only worry now is her own respect in sight of Molly. What will she say? All her prayers to God, to reveal to Molly the overcoming life of “saint-believing-in-TPM-doctrines,” has come to nought.
Molly, on the other hand, is not oblivious to what God is showing her. She has both seen and heard the deeds of overcoming saint. There is a vast difference in her outlook towards sinning saint. Unlike Daisy, she doesn’t look down on them who commit mistakes. Similar to the character of Jesus who said about the woman caught in adultery “Let him who has not sinned cast stone first,” Molly is compassionate towards the sinning minister. She knows every saint has a past and every sinner a future. It is better to marry than to burn (I Corinthians 7:9). She knows that the sinning saint will be long gone when Daisy and Molly awake in the morning. So without wanting to humiliate Daisy, so closes her eyes and falls asleep. But the self-righteous Daisy – “the-brainwashed-child-of-TPM,” how can she sleep peacefully in rustling sounds of the train with a sinning saint beside her. She kept thinking that the real “Life of Separation” should have been in keeping the men and women in TPM Ministry in separate places. She knew that many more Davids will be on way out of TPM with their fornication partners.
Each episode in this series is like a beam of light exposing the reality of TPM and its evil practices camouflaged under the garb of the so called “holiness and separation practices of TPM”. For the die hard TPM fanatics, the organisation called TPM is greater than the word of God. TPM like any other religion is producing a bunch of religious people rather than Spiritual people.
There are lots of people who are deceived by the doctrine of TPM and it is very difficult for them to escape from the clutches of this cult… the reason being :
“2 Thes:2:10-11……because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:”
Whoever heeds to wrong teachings even after knowing the truth from the Bible will be deceived by none other than God himself. Isn’t it scary ?
Admin is doing a painstaking job of focussing the light of the word of God on the wrong teachings of TPM. I urge the readers who are still in TPM to please open your eyes and flee from the cult called TPM.
Dont expect God to send his angels and pull you out of TPM like Lot and his family was pulled out. And dont expect the door of the ark to be open when the rain starts pouring.
I thank God for bringing me out of this terrible cult.
Well how strong that DELUSION is!!!!!!!!
You will not believe your own eyes!!!!!
Right from the beginning of this mission formation in Lanka, (the list is compiled from Wikipedea,List of chief pastors of The Pentecostal Mission)
Pas. Paul Ramankutty 1923–1945
Pas. Alwin R. de Alwis 1945–1962
Pas. T. Fredrick Paul 1962–1973
Pas. A. C. Thomas 1973–1976
Pas. Jacob Ratnasingham 1976–1990
Pas. V. G. Samuel 1990–1991
Pas. H. Ernest Paul 1991–1994
Pas. C. K. Lazarus 1994–1999
Pas. P. M. Thomas 1999–2001
Pas. T. U. Thomas 2001–2006
Pas. F. Wilson Joseph 2006–2014
Pas. Wesley Peter (Geoffrey Sam Peter) 2014–2015
Pas. Stephen Natarajan 2015-2018
Pas. Abraham Mathew (2018-Present)),
these millions & millions of believers & thousands & thousands of workers had been deceived ,and are getting on deceived till date. Recently in Sri Lanka also some innocent sheep were separated for this CULT ministry.And now preparations are afoot for a repeat action in IRUMBELIYUR. The most bizzarre aspect of this delusion is…..every following head of this CULT right from AA( who was on record introducing these workers taken to full time ministry for all over the globe since (1945–1962)had been totally blind folded for 74 years,and still the process is continuing.!!! That is the most perplexing issue! How long this will be allowed? This will be a million dollar question. But one thing is sure , so long as strong PATRONS are there and patronizing for this CULT, this CULT will continue further, but lets’ protect ourselves and be aware of our King of Kings and Lord of Lords who will surely intervene soon,as the FIG TREE (Israel) is blossoming for the world to know.
How strong DELUSION?——A simple rejoinder to that statement is — I can easily imagine that God has chosen this blessed site fromtpm.com in the year 2016 to unearth the real face of this CULT and to wage a lone battle against its evil designs after 71 long years.(the year 1945 has been seen a symbolic year since Alwin R .de Alwis came into the scene of this CULT.)Thanks, thousands and thousands of believers and hundreds and hundreds of workers got deliverance from this CULT system and many more are in the process,and thus they could open their eyes finally.I wish to profusely thank ADMIN and TEAM for being used by the arm of ALMIGHTY God as a part of the fulfillment plan of God on the spiritual front. Matthew 24:32,33 talk about the parable of FIG tree .It is clearly seen as the true reflection of the events that took place in Jerusalem with the TRUMP announcement in recent months.
Truth about churches worldwide… Is this where our hard earned money goes into?
The Good thing about this pope is that. He is not living in Denial like the TPM Popes.
Acknowledging the fact is the first step to restoration.
TPM popes are so corrupt that they cannot even come to face this ugly fact within their clergy.
At 12.10 pm today TPM clergy has lost one more centre pr.Immanuel Palayamkottai.INDIA.How it happened ?As usual it would be a top secret.Only ADMIN might have got some news by now.
Is there some reason for it to be a top secret?
I did receive the pic of him some time back.
ADMIN–@—Is there some reason for it to be a top secret?
No.. if it does n’t come to you,its fine.It did not reach me either,
But still we feel sad to see why anyone should die young unless it is will of God.
ADMIN –the EPISODE 9 carries BILLY GRAHAM ‘S QUOTATION.
Theres’ a lot of stuff going around the YOU TUBE taking about BILLY GRAHAM that he did not have strong Biblical foundation in his later part of his life.That he showered his praises on the enemies of gospel.Some times we could be hearing comments of this kind Highly perplexing news .Should we have to pay heed to such kind of YOU TUBE MATERIAL?
Just click this link https://youtu.be/FSvp-rS30hg.
The quotation was taken because of the substance in it. If that was the logic applied to many writers(personal failings) of the Bible, we will have to discard the entire scriptures. Though people may try to nitpick on Billy Graham for his comments, we should understand the context and the perspective. He is theologically sound and his later doctrine seems to have removed many narrow-minded thoughts. For God, A Christian is just equal to a Muslim or a Hindu. He is Universal and his salvation is Universal. He is our God and their God too. He blesses us and them too.
Differences of such natures will be there and I do not contend to be someone who can bother with some statements of Billy without knowing the whole thing in entirety.
I had to go through TPM Doctrines in its depth to start this site. I would not have bothered to confront TPM for simple deviations.
According to my understanding, Billy Graham is a great man of God and he will get his due reward.
Admin what you said many points are True.
Still more contrasting things are coming up.
Watch this presentation
This presentation totally contradicts our view on BILLY GRAHAM, the great man of God and attacks him tooth and nail. We can still impart some kind of education on this man of God.There is nothing in knowing the views of others so long as we do n’t subscribe to their ideaology.
Brother Basically this is a Hate Rant by this person who fails to understand the perspective of Billy Graham. He has a Prejudiced mind against other denominations especially the Catholics.
Consider his statement that the Pope is AntiChrist? (2:23). Which part of the Bible identifies the Pope as the AntiChrist system’s part? I do not believe so.
Do you know that the clearly spelt out doctrine of Trinity is a Gift of the Catholic Church formulated at the Council of Nicea?
Pope is the One who propagates the Divinity of Christ and you believe that he is AntiChrist?
In 2:59 Billy Graham said Pope Believed on the Cross and the Resurrection. Is not that accepting the Sacrifice and ultimately the Lordship of Jesus Christ? Is not what Romans 10:9-10 says about salvation?
He is basing his entire argument based on his understanding that Pope is part of the AntiChrist System which I do not find any hint in the Bible. Just because Billy Graham did not condemn the Pope, how come Billy Graham became a culprit?
This person has a very flawed understanding of Catholicism. In fact, I too understood it likewise earlier. Sadly he is clubbing Mary with Buddha and Muhammad etc. Mary is not a figure of worship as is Christ even among Catholics. We need to understand that Reverence is different from Worship. But the many later protestants got this idea that Mary is some ordinary lady and has spent their efforts in demeaning the Mother of Christ.
Her role in the Redemption of mankind is prophecied in the same verse where Christ was first prophecied.
The WOMAN in Genesis 3:15 is none other than Mary. This importance of Mary is what many people trash because of Ignorance.
She is called Co-redemptrix by Catholic Church. Co-Redemptrix refers to subordinate but essential participation by the Blessed Virgin Mary in redemption.
That is because unlike all of us who is born by a seed of a Man, Jesus was introduced into this world as the Seed of the Woman(Mary). It’s Important that we give utmost respect to Mary.
I do not believe that Catholics believe that Mary is the way to the Father. Venerating a person is not worshipping.
After studying lots of denominations, I have come to the understanding that being a Catholic is no worse than being a Pentecostal or being a Baptist or Presbyterian.
All are religions. Some claiming to be closer than the other..All are corrupted.
This presenter seems to be thinking that you will have to preach against Catholicism in order to preach Christ.Why do we have to mingle religion with the saviour? In that case, I would say Billy Graham should have preached against His own Baptists.
Religion and Denominations are Satans way of dividing the people.
This presenter also seems to be ridiculing the prayers of others from 9:00. Well, that is so Pharisee like and such a thing was dispelled by Jesus himself in which he said the Tax Collecter’s prayer was more valuable than the Pharisees one.
From 11:15 he is again faulting Billy for saying something which is true. We need not to have a Brand Label of “Christianity”. If we truly Love Christ(John 14:15) and knows Christ(John 17:3) we are his followers indeed (11:34).
So around 13 He says something like you may not believe in Christ to go to heaven. However, I would like to read the complete context before commenting and not through the lens of somebody who is ranting away against Billy.
I think I understand what Billy Graham says and I can only comment after I read that book.
// For God, A Christian is just equal to a Muslim or a Hindu. He is Universal and his salvation is Universal. He is our God and their God too. He blesses us and them too.//
He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.(Matthew 5 :45)
The above verse expresses the love of GOD in providing the blessing to ALL unconditionally …
In the same way FATHER GOD gave HIS SON JESUS CHRIST as THE ONLY WAY OF SALVATION to ALL Unconditionally through HIS EVERLASTING LOVE…
I sternly oppose the statement – “there is a another salvation other than through CHRIST JESUS”… which is a HERESY irrespective of WHO says it…
God cleared off the differences among men only in CHRIST JESUS
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28)
Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.(Ephe 2 : 11-18)
For HE(FATHER) chose us in HIM(JESUS) before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love HE predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In HIM(JESUS) we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, HE(FATHER) made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which HE(FATHER) purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
Colossians 1 : 13-17
For JESUS has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
1 Timothy 3:16
Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.
“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
John 17 :2,3
“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
1 John 5:19,20
We know that we are of God, and that the whole world is under the power of the evil one. And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true— in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the TRUE God and eternal life.
Colossians 1 :21-23
Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of g your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the GOSPEL that you heard and that has been proclaimed to *every creature under heaven*
Galatians 1 : 6-8
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the *GOSPEL OF CHRIST*. But even if *WE*(APOSTLES) or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!
Acts 4 :11,12
“ ‘the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the cornerstone.’
*Salvation* is found in *NO ONE ELSE*, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”
Revelation 5 :12-14
Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing!” And I heard every creature in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be praise and honor and glory and power forever and ever!” The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
// For God, A Christian is just equal to a Muslim or a Hindu. He is Universal and his salvation is Universal. He is our God and their God too. He blesses us and them too.//
In one sense the above statement could be viewed as the heart of God. Look at the David’s heart. Full of wicked character. Did God not choose him to lead the Israelis and certified him as His own. But David was allowed to build the Temple of God for the obvious reasons.
In the similar count ,God loved Hindus.He loved Raman Kutty,(Pr. Paul) and started His kingdom through him. (but things took a different turn after Pr. PAUL, God is watching.) In the Muslim world, He saved Sister Gulshan Esther and has saved many and has been saving colossal Muslims. In the same note ARABIC world, He is raising numerous people. Similarly ,for Chinese, Confusians, Zorastrians, Zen people(Japanese),Koreans too ,He has got His plans to each tribe and to every Nation, as every Nation has to bow down, and every tongue has to accept Jesus as their SAVIOUR. He has been raising His chosen ones who could match His plans of salvation and how they could come through the DOOR, Jesus. It is none of our business to argue, why & how.. For a Sovereign God,He is our Potter, we are His clay.He has got His own set plans to put them into use. If some X, Y or Z does not fit into His scheme of things , well He would send them strong delusion to believe the lies (2 THESS 2: 10,,11).That will be His ultimate justice. If they try to alter the everlasting plan of God, I think ,God would intervene and see to it. It better to leave the issue in the hand of God. Certainly He would do justice. He would raise NATHANS to open the eyes of DAVIDS.
Trying to understand this basic stuff….
They are the ones not defiled by women. Who are women here? If its literal man woman relationship, even Peter and few disciples including Pas Paul doesn’t qualify. So here if woman is the church, how can one be not defiled by church? Little confusing. Can anyone illuminate?
This passage is NOT a literal passage to be ingested straight as we read. It needs interpretation. The Clue itself is in the identity of Christ who is identified as the “Lamb”. Therefore the rest of the passage also need to be seen in the same spiritual light. The virgins, therefore, should also be identified as Spiritual Virgins. They had not defiled themselves either with corporal or spiritual adultery; they had kept themselves clean from the abominations of the antichristian generation.
Towards the latter end of the book of Revelation, we can see some women. Out of all, Only one is undefiled and the rest are defiled. The passages make it clear that the defilement is not about physical virginity but a spiritual one.
1. Mystery Babylon the Mother of Harlots (Rev 17:18) – Defiled
2. The Daughters of Babylon who are Harlots (Rev 17:18) – Defiled
3. New Jerusalem(Rev 21) – The Bride Undefiled
The quotation about Virginity and Defilement of the above should be seen in that light.
If you are confused, it may be because your mind is concentrating on word “WOMEN” in Revelation 14.
They are the ones not defiled by WOMEN. …..
In greek language the word for women is γυνή which is used in various other places in bible. Just check them.
In Mathew 9;22 the same Greek word (γυνή)is translated as WOMAN (singular). Elsewhere the Greek word (γυνή) is translated as wife. And at other places as women (plural).
In short, the word (γυνή) can be both used plural or singuare or as wife or as general refference for any woman.
So if the translation of (γυνή) in Revelation 14:4 be as
These are they which are not defer by WOMAN,
Then the WOMAN here is harlot church or fallen church. She is referred as woman in many places in bible. She is the one who defiles.
Therefore the verse in revelation 14:4 might mean that 144k (may be jews) were not influenced by false teachings of harlot church.
And I hope this should help you, along with what admin has pointed.
“Did God not choose him to lead the Israelis and certified him as His own. But David was allowed to build the Temple of God for the obvious reasons.”
Sorry, the above statement totally changed the very context I was referring to. : ( the mistake was —‘not ‘——was not properly inserted where it was required. Regret to say it was my mistake of not inserting the word correctly),
Kindly it read as—-
“Did God choose him to lead the Israelites and certified him as His own heart. But David was not allowed to build the Temple of God for the obvious reasons.”
Finally, I wish to thank ADMIN for his painstaking replies to the readers and concluding the theological debate in a rather harmonious way without keeping any trace of offence towards anyone of the enlightened readers.God bless us all.
Nath @”Therefore the verse in revelation 14:4 might mean that 144k (may be jews) were not influenced by false teachings of harlot church.”
Beautiful summation at the end by dear Nath. I salute him for clarifying the doubts that many of us are having. What a way this site is serving others .It is indeed the spirit of God led us to come to this invaluable site as many theological issues were dealt in detail which were totally hazy and misunderstood and misrepresented by CHURCH believers /workers are now put in right perspective.
Salvation is given freely. Share it freely with your neighbours freely . Kudos to ADMIN and his TEAM.
Daisy and Molly’s conversation was epic ….lol. Top notch…#quality content!!!! Hats off admin …keep it up!?