Lessons from the Flood – 1

Before getting into the topic of Lessons from the Flood – 1, I would like to mention that many of our fellow countrymen including Christian Brothers and Sisters have gone through untold miseries during the flood in Kerala that engulfed the state. We at fromtpm.com share the pain and sorrow of all concerned. We also request other brethren to support the grieving people with Physical, emotional and material support in whatever way you can. All of us are also doing it in our own small ways.

The Lord is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. Psalm 34:18


There is a gentleman who goes by an alias name of Fred. He commented in this site that God is Dumb and he can prove his point. I am displaying his comment below.

Lessons from the Flood - 1

Is God Dumb?

This is a key question that people ask at times of crisis. And I assume that this seems to be the reason behind Fred’s understanding as he mentions suffering to be a reason for his complaint with God. I would also like to let the reader know that I am not writing this article to justify a person’s suffering or calamities that people are going through.

Lessons from the Flood – 1As far as I am concerned, God is louder than ever. In reality, he has put up a loudspeaker so that he gets our attention. When we are engrossed in this world and the things of the world, we do not listen to God.

Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. Col 3:2

It is in fact utterly stupid to keep listening to the world and expect to hear God. Finally, you end up complaining that God is Dumb. Dear Friend, God is not dumb, the problem is with your ears. You are Deaf and is failing to realize that.

When you ignore God’s voice for long, he shouts at us using means like this Flood so that we turn our eyes and ears to God. This shouting is an expression of God’s love for us. He wants us to be heavenly minded. He is showing us that all that we love and think we possess, is just a rain away. God is telling us to stop loving and listening to the gifts rather than the Giver.

What is our Response?

It’s common for people to ask questions like “Why did God do this to me?”. We send a barrage of questions like how Job did when he lost everything. There are times when we ask God showcasing our righteousness like “I haven’t missed any meetings or services”, “I have paid my tithes and even more”, “I have always filled in the spirit and shouted the loudest”, “I have done this”, “I have done that” and so on. We fail to realize that all our righteousness are as filthy rags (Isa 64:6). His love towards us was not in response to our righteousness. Don’t be idiotic to assume that your wealth, Job, Business, House, Car etc is God’s response to your deeds. In fact, I would say that an excess of all these worldly things is Satan’s deception on you. You are under a delusion thinking that God is the one that gave it to you. Gradually, you horde these things and assume that God is with you. If it is so, you are in a pitiable state, my brothers and sisters. We have been highlighting this since long, but TPM folks are comfortable living in this delusion. So God had to send a deluge to awaken them up.

Wake up

We have been telling people about getting out of their dream about TPM Clergy. But their believers would not. They have gotten comfortable with their setup and is not willing to think. This is a time when a normal person would start thinking. But if the doze of TPM Sedative is quite strong, you will still love to continue with your sleep and chose to perish with this world. We would like to break two of the standard notions about TPM Clergy.

Servant of God?

TPM believers harping that their clergy are SERVANTS OF GOD. A label called “Servant of God” is not enough to make you a Servant of God. It has to be approved of God. Through out the bible, the Prophets/Servants of God have warned people about the calamites that will come to them if they continue in their backsliding ways.

The LORD warned Israel and Judah through all his prophets and seers: “Turn from your evil ways. Observe my commands and decrees, in accordance with the entire Law that I commanded your ancestors to obey and that I delivered to you through my servants the prophets.”  2 Kings 17:13

Dear TPM Believers,

Have you ever thought why did not God warn you who are continuing in the so-called “Fellowship of the Saints“? Do you know how do we recognize if someone is a Servant of God or a Fraud? Check out this verse.

Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.  Amos 3:7

How come the Lord did not reveal this major disaster to the TPM Prophets and their Clergy? Have you ever thought about it? How come the Prophets of TPM who gets the word directly from ZION, the throne of God got it all wrong? If God could warn Noah of NEW HEAVEN grade, he should have surely got it to his servants who will occupy ZION and behold his face every time. Aren’t these TPM clergies the Joy of the Whole Earth as they keep proclaiming?

Now consider this pastor from another denomination who is condemned to accept a lower NEW EARTH grade, getting it right, 8 months back in Dec 31st 2017. Watch this video.

Now answer me who is the Servant of God as per Amos 3:7. Pastor P.R Baby or the TPM Clergies adding up 144,000 in Zion?

Do you have a Protection by the 4:00 AM Praising?

We have many people who come to this site and tell us that they are protected by the Prayers and praises of the Servants of God getting up early at 4:00 AM. I hope they have their eyes opened now.

Dear TPM Believers,

Do you now realize the futility of the belief you have been having? In fact, it worked the other way around. Is it not true? Do you think Jesus was joking when he said that vain repetitions are not going to help you(Matt 6:7)? Have some respect for what Jesus said. He is GOD. Stop worshiping your idols (TPM Clergy) and change your ways.

Leave alone protecting you, most of these people were ahead in the race of saving their own lives when the waters came gushing. The Ones that boast of having given their lives for Serving God were more concerned about their own lives than the sheep they were supposed to protect. When will you realize that these people are in a business of conning people in the name of God? Did not God expose the lies of these conmen with few raindrops? What else do you need as a proof?

You have only one protection and that is the Strong Refuge of the Lord. Stop giving your hard earned money to these Conmen who has no connection to God. Stop this sale of God for profit.

The name of the Lord is a strong tower; The righteous run to it and are safe. Prov 18:10

The LORD is a refuge for the oppressed, a stronghold in times of trouble. Psalm 9:9

Conclusion

Any right thinking person will understand the hollowness of TPM Clergy’s claims. But Ah…Thinking is something that TPM Believers rarely does.

Now we know what will happen.

  1. TPM Faith homes which were inundated will be fixed up with better-painted walls and fixtures and furniture will be replaced with better ones. Some of the Faith Homes will be demolished and better ones built. Some may be elevated like the Chief Pastors Mansion done in Chennai.  The Clergy will continue to be in their business of conning people with new ideas. Read this Thambi Durai letter exposing his intent in which he gives to the poor, thinking God is a Business partner of paying back what you did. TPM will be Back to Business.
  2. The Rich believers will fix the buildings fast and get better fixtures and furnishings. Some may go for modifications and rebuild with little or no repentance of their backslidden state.
  3. The middle-class believers will fix their problems with some difficulties and some cosmetic changes with little or no thought of coming back to God. They may have questions about the Clergy protection which they boasted of. But will never have the spine to stand up to manipulations lest they get into bigger trouble. They will have a thought of keeping the terrible God appeased by more tithes and offerings. Their brains will be totally dysfunctional.
  4. The Poor Believers will expect some handouts from the Government, rich guys and the Faith Home Clergy to get their lives back on track. They will be under an illusion that God has cursed them to live a poor life not knowing that they are placed where they can easily access God with no deceitfulness of riches. These poor people will never realize that the TPM Clergy’s allegiance is always towards building their own empire and the poor are essentially a nuisance.
  5. Few of them will think over it and gradually take corrective actions in their lives and families by getting closer to God with the understanding that God is not a Business but a Loving Father and The Lord of their Lives.

To be continued…..

 

Rating: 5

53 Comments on “Lessons from the Flood – 1”

  1. This is in wake of the death of TPM Chief Pastor Stephen Natarajan. Many years back there was a prophecy in Chengalpattu Faith home that this Stephen would not die but rather be caught up alive when Christ comes in his second coming. Many people believed this prophecy and even recently a headmaster of a branch did mention about it. Most of TPM folks in Chennai area had believed this thing and now see Stephen is no more. Not only that they could not prophecy about the great flood in Kerala, but they also have false prophecies like Stephen not dying. Is there somebody who can cast light on this?

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    1. Almost all pastors and centre mothers will go to Chennai to give gala farewell to dead body of stephen. Isn’t this double standard ? When a small brother or sister will ask permission to visit his/ her family members funeral then they lecture him/her – let dead bury dead. Why don’t they let dead burry dead and continue tpm ministry at chiefs death ? How grand was funeral of Jesus and his 12 apostles ?

      I remember there was a small brother who wanted to go to attend funeral of his father. He asked permission from centre pastor to which cp denied. His family members and relatives called cp and cp told them about consecration. This request from brother and phine calls from his relatives continued all day. At last (it was evening , tarrying meeting time) CP told small brother that even our leaders (chief pastors) don’t go to burry their parents. Learn obedience from leaders over you. And he told him to sit in tarrying meeting. Then there was prophecy – I have loved you.. will you forsake me and go ? Finally he made his conscience hard and obeyed his masters to keep himself serving CP as doorkeeper waiter laundryman instead of burying his father..After few years this man will become centre pastor and stop others from attending funeral of family members and himself go and attend funeral of yet another chief pastor.

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    2. Even headmaster of our fake home also told the same thing. I don’t know how he will convince all the teachers since he has died now. That prophecy is almost known to all chennai believers. What an organization , Only Jesus should open the eyes of those slaves.

    3. I never met C/P Stephen and dont have personnel issues with T/Durai was well; but couldn’t resist from sharing his blasphemous tribute to the late C/P from today’s sermon.
      He started with “After waiting for few hours he received the below message after 12 midnight so he had little sleep’.
      Root verse was Acts 6: 15… There were many parallels with Stephen of bible who was a believer and our late C/P Stephen. Of the many amusing points I wish to highlight below two parallels which stood out.
      1. As per Acts 6:8 Stephen was full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles.(he didn’t quote the rest). Our C/P Stephen when he applied for 2 years US visa was granted 10 years visa at Chennai which is a wonder and miracle…..(I bet it was)
      2. Like Stephen our C/P had the same evangelical spirit. While in US he heared a voice “Alaska”. He started a f/home at Alaska soon….(How can starting a new church be equated with Evangelism).
      3. As (Acts 6:15) Stephen’s face was as that of an angel, our C/P Stephen will also have a face of angel in eternity….His reasoning is if we live our current life with the face of an Angel we can end our life with the face of an angel…

      I wish he read Acts 6:3 & 7:58 instead and attempted to make some comparison.

      1. My understanding based on the 3 points of Thambi Durai
        1. Earthly Mindedness (Visa issue)
        2. Business Mindedness (New Branch in Alaska)
        3. Carnally Minded. Judgement based on skin colour and externality.

  2. Hi everyone🖐️,First and foremost,I didnt tell that I disbelieve God because of sufferings or because God did something bad to me,or for God is bad.It’s @Nath who wants the answer for sufferings in this world.The truth is everybody is same, everybody suffers,I didn’t tell that sufferings are because of the belief in God or man’s ego,even animals suffers(they have pain,loose someone they love, they cry. don’t think they complain like we do)
    Sufferings are just a part of life,u have to accept it,every living being suffers.U are pretending to be known the solution for sufferings but I’ll tell u,u and I are going to suffer equally in spite of what u believe in and what I don’t(but it is smart not to suffer because you suffer😃😃).You are afraid of facing the life,you might be afraid of death(especially about what’s going to happen after u die),pain, loosing someone u love,so u have a story for yourself to believe in and think that u can escape the sufferings,but u r not.The problem is we think we are special,we are nothing special,Even if I die today or earth disappears suddenly, everything will be same as it is,nothing changes, everything goes as it is, Millions and trillions of people who had thought that they are Something special have already gone,😁😁
    And natural calamities are just because of the imbalance in the nature,it’s just nature balancing itself,it had happened before(worst than this)and it will happen in the future too and reasons for the recent calamity are deforestation, construction of dams across river, over population,pollution,etc., Not that somebody screaming with a loudspeakers on!!we need to accept that we did it indirectly and take necessary measures.Even if the people are morally right or wrong it doesnt matter unless u stop chopping the tress, polluting., natural calamities wont reduce but increases.
    ‌Philosophically speaking If u Don’t know pain,u don’t know pleasure.If u Don’t know sufferings u won’t know blissfulness.if u don’t know dark u know not light.so I accept the sufferings but believing in something which was written in a book written by someone u don’t know and believing that it has got all the secrets and truth about the universe or beginning of universe or purpose of life and believing everything written in it is literally true is insane and blaming others for not believing in the way u believe or judging for not doing what u r doing and for not going to the places you go that you call as better church than theirs and having a dedicated website to judge others (I’m taking about TPM) is lunatic.
    ‌And not only this Pastor,there was one more guy who prophesied about the coming calamity,I wish u had uploaded that video too who had a better explanation.

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  3. Hi Admin,
    What Fred told was not wrong but misinterpreted by you unfortunately.
    Religion is dumb and anyone with an IQ can prove it, how much ever you try to prove it using the fictional book you tour around called the Bible.
    Your religion is as true as the other thousands of religions around the world and there is as much proof of your God as much as there is about the millions of Gods believed around the world.
    But, everyone is entitled to their own opinion however true or wrong it might be.

    Blessed be

    1. Dear Luke,
      I have not misinterpreted anything. Check out Fred’s comment. He said God is Dumb. Now you are the one twisting it and saying that Fred said Religion is Dumb. Do you know the difference between God and Religion? There is an enormous gap between God and Religion.If you have read this site, you will find that Admin is against Religion. You should be really blind not to have noticed it. I do not know what are you out to prove when you cannot even read simple statements in its entirety.

      Moreover, As discussed I had passed over Nath’s email id to Fred and as far as I know, Fred did not have the courtesy even to reply to Nath. And this is the same Fred who is out to prove that God is Dumb.

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      1. My dear Admin,
        You have made it very clear that you are completely against TPM the cult but this is the first time that you’ve come out saying that you’re against religion.
        So ipso facto you are against all that is taught by any religion which would include Christianity too right?
        This in turn would imply that you are against the theology professed by any singular religion and hence denying the divinity of Jesus Christ too?
        Now that puts you in an awkward position, given the fact that you’ve been fighting with me tooth and nail on how you stick to the truest doctrines in the Bible.

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        1. Dear Luke,
          You are intertwining God and Religion. You are following a flawed understanding. There is no connect between God/Jesus and all kinds of Religion as you see today.
          Nice that you noticed me being against TPM. But have you noticed me against Jesus or God? I am sure NO. So there comes the difference. By religion what I mean is different systems built by some men claiming to reach God by their prescribed way and in the process, monetary transactions take place. These people acts as brokerage houses to get people connected to God. All religions as we see today are Pure businesses in which God is being sold to simple people using different tricks. It seems that even you have been convinced by Religion that God is with them. No wonder you are swapping God and Religion indiscriminately in this conversation.


          You will do good if you read the First point in the conclusion section of this article and note the highlighted part.


          1. Do you know why Jesus was against the Pharisees when they were the torch bearers of Judaism(Religion), in his days?
          2. Do you know why did Jesus whip the money changers in the Temple?
          3. Do you know why did Jesus purposely break so many of the religious traditions of his time?

          Yes JESUS HATED RELIGION. He knew the trickery of Religion.

          Though there are a lot to say on the different aspects of Religion. I would request you to read the following, for a start.
          https://www.fromtpm.com/blog/2017/05/01/the-religious-spirit-in-tpm/

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  4. It’s funny how u twist the truth,we had almost 10 replies each other and u say I haven’t replied and I have read most of the articles ,as in your website you don’t sincerely talk about so called your God,but try and sneak into TPM and find as many faults you can.Starts with God or about new Church u r into and finally blames TPM and it’s clergies,@admin if u r true Christian how can u forget Mat:7:1-4? According to Jesus u can’t even judge a woman with 5+ husbands,idk on what basis u judge the TPM
    And can I contact Luke by any chance?

    1. Fred
      I told admin there has no substance come from your side. I am.still waiting for something solid. Hope you prove what you said.

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    2. Fred,
      After I linked you and Nath, you did not even acknowledge my mail. Do you find that funny? I did inquire twice to Nath asking him if he received any communication from you. He said NO on both times. Now I hear from Nath that you had some small chit-chats but nothing of substance relating to the topic. Probably you do not have any convincing argument to prove your point.
      If you want to know the reason of the website, you should be honest and read the About Us section and know why we are TPM centric in our discussion.
      As far as Matt 7:1 is concerned, have you even bothered to read the below article in which we have dealt the issue is detail?
      https://www.fromtpm.com/blog/2017/10/02/judge-not-that-ye-be-not-judged/

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  5. Dear Admin,
    Religion may be defined as a cultural system of designated behaviors and practices, worldviews, texts, sanctified places, prophecies, ethics, or organizations, that relates humanity to supernatural, transcendental, or spiritual elements.
    Different religions may or may not contain various elements ranging from the divine, sacred things, faith, a supernatural being or supernatural beings or “some sort of ultimacy and transcendence that will provide norms and power for the rest of life”. Religious practices may include rituals, sermons, commemoration or veneration (of deities), sacrifices, festivals, feasts, trances, initiations, funerary services, matrimonial services, meditation, prayer, music, art, dance, public service, or other aspects of human culture. Religions have sacred histories and narratives, which may be preserved in sacred scriptures, and symbols and holy places, that aim mostly to give a meaning to life. Religions may contain symbolic stories, which are sometimes said by followers to be true, that have the side purpose of explaining the origin of life, the universe, and other things. Traditionally, faith, in addition to reason, has been considered a source of religious beliefs.

    Please prove that your beliefs has got nothing to do with the above mentioned and I will believe you, but, as long as anything you believe in has got anything to do with anything mentioned above then you my friend do support religion.

    Tell me, what do you think?
    Is there a heaven? Is there hell? Then yes you follow religion.
    Do you think that for a person to go to heaven he has to participate in certain rituals? (namely, repentance, acceptance, baptism, filling in the holy spirit etc) then yes, you follow religion.
    Do you believe that there’s only one book claiming the divinity of your deity? then yes, you follow religion.
    Do you believe that only the sacred text you have is right and everyone else are wrong? Then yes you follow religion.
    Do you believe that only living according to your sacred text will make you attain salvation? Then yes, you do follow religion.
    Does your proof of divinity require belief and faith without any evidence of proof then yes, you do follow religion.

    Do you want me to go on and on? Then you’re still not convinced that you’re following a religion.

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    1. I don’t think you understood the difference between God and Religion. You are going in circles trying to find the end of a religion.
      If you have a bible do let me know the Name of Enoch’s Religion and we can continue the conversation.

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      1. The stories of Enoch, Noah and Abraham are from the Jewish Torah (first 5 books of the Old Testament) supposedly written by Moses. Today the majority of academic scholars accept the archeological evidence as showing that the Torah did not have a single author, and that its composition took place over centuries. You only run into these logical inconsistencies if you take these storie to be literally true.

        “The historical saga contained in the Bible – from Abraham’s encounter with God and his journey to Canaan, to Moses, deliverance of the children of Israel from bondage, to the rise and fall of the kingdoms of Israel and Judah – was not a miraculous revelation, but a product of human imagination. It was first conceived – as recent archaeological findings suggest – during the span of two or three generations, about twenty-six hundred years ago.” – Archaeologist Israel Finkelstein, Ph.D., director of the Sonia and Marco Nadler Institute of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University

        1. Well instead of answering me you tried to attack the scriptures. So you are more interested in trying to tell me that some Atheistic people’s views are true and the others are false.
          Aren’t you guilty of the same thing you are accusing others of.
          You are going by so so-called “Majority of academic scholars”.
          – Can you name a few which are universally known as Unbiased?
          – How do you know its a Majority? Have you counted and are you able to give the statistics of the majority vs the minority?
          – How can you prove these are academic scholars and are not biased sceptics?
          – Does Majority proves Right. Usually Idiots are the ones which side with Majority and not examine the facts for themselves.

          Please answer me.

        2. @ luke
          You did not understand gist of admin’s question. He asked you about enochs religion. Which religion does genesis say, Enoch followed or Noah followed. Did God of bible asked them to follow Christianity or jewism or what? The context of question was your misunderstanding about religion and biblical God. Hoping to read your answer on religion of Enoch.

          @ Concerning your case of “majority academic scholars”
          When did we say that opinions of academic scholars are our measuring stick for truth?

  6. At least Luke is not holding on to a single book,@admin do u believe that every word in the Bible is divine inspiration?and u think Bible is just a 66 books in it?don’t u think that this book will also be corrupted,if u have such common sense that the university is biased why don’t u use your this common sense when it comes to religion and bible.?

    1. Oh ..So Luke is not holding onto a single book so He has to be right. Freddy logic.


      //do u believe that every word in the Bible is divine inspiration?

      I believe that the 66 books of the bible are divinely inspired. That does not mean that I approve of the translation bias in certain versions.


      //don’t u think that this book will also be corrupted,if u have such common sense that the university is biased why don’t u use your this common sense when it comes to religion and bible.?

      Why should I be worried that the BIBLE WILL BE CORRUPTED? Its not for me to worry about a future event predicted by fred. I worry about the present where I can make a change for the better. I do not spend my time worrying on some weird probabilities which never occurs.

      1. So only the original Bible written in old Hebrew is divinely inspired, all other translations were written by men so translation bias could have happened, ipso facto, translated Bibles are not exactly divinely inspired… Is that true?
        Tell me Admin which is the true Bible? Were they the books established by the Council of Trent in 1546? Or were it the books decided by the Westminster Confession of Faith in 1647?…No No… Maybe it was the books decided in the Synod of Jerusalem in 1672… Oh no… I may be wrong again… Maybe it’s the complete set of protocanonical books and the deuterocanonical books… Is the NT really only what Irenaeus had dictated?? Or does the Muratorian fragment also include in the NT??
        Who knows?? To err is to be human.. Who knows what all mistakes have been made by the authors themselves?… Who knows what all books have been lost??
        Maybe the Admin knows the exact Bible to follow… If so I’m all ears.

        1. //So only the original Bible written in old Hebrew is divinely inspired, all other translations were written by men so translation bias could have happened, ipso facto, translated Bibles are not exactly divinely inspired… Is that true?

          What I meant is that you should be open to check out and correct translation biases. An easy way is to read multiple translations to clear out. But of course you will be better equipped if you know the original languages in which it is written.


          //Tell me Admin which is the true Bible? Were they the books established by the Council of Trent in 1546? Or were it the books decided by the Westminster Confession of Faith in 1647?…No No… Maybe it was the books decided in the Synod of Jerusalem in 1672… Oh no… I may be wrong again… Maybe it’s the complete set of protocanonical books and the deuterocanonical books… Is the NT really only what Irenaeus had dictated?? Or does the Muratorian fragment also include in the NT??

          Did I mention the 66 books that is available with us now. Then why this confusion about which council approved it? Are you wanting to show me that you know all the above things? I believe that these 66 books were inspired by the Holy Spirit. But at the same time, I do not say that there are no other parchments or texts which are inspired. Its safe to go with the canonical books. You may also read the book of Enoch or Jasher or Didache for your references. I am not one who limits God to some books. I believe that God has his way and he does speaks to us even through the billboards. However, these 66 books can be used as the measuring yard for our understanding. Any violation of this in another text should be taken with the required scepticism.

    2. Fred
      If you were to name one best religion of all available religions , which one would you hold closest to truth? I know you don’t believe in religion, but if you were to choose, which one would be your best religion ?

  7. Admin,
    Let me answer you point by point,

    Firstly you said, //Well instead of answering me you tried to attack the scriptures. //
    When we were discussing the differences between Religion and God, you were the one who raised the question as to what is the religion of Enoch (FYI, favorite question by TPM pastors). I was mentioning how irrational it is to prove something which is by itself fictional. I wasn’t attacking your scriptures, you were the one who claimed that you’re against Religion and I was just examining the logic of how you can say you’re against religion but at the same time hold a product of the said religion so close to your heart.

    Secondly, //So you are more interested in trying to tell me that some Atheistic people’s views are true and the others are false.
    Aren’t you guilty of the same thing you are accusing others of.//
    What are you talking about??… When did I ever say anything like that? I would be greatly obliged if you would not make false allegations.

    Thirdly, //You are going by so so-called “Majority of academic scholars”.
    – Can you name a few which are universally known as Unbiased?//
    Sure, please find the list below,
    Harry Kroto,
    Svante Arrhenius
    Paul D. Boyer
    John Cornforth
    Frédéric Joliot-Curie
    Irène Joliot-Curie
    Richard R. Ernst
    Herbert A. Hauptman
    Roald Hoffmann
    Harold W. Kroto
    Jean-Marie Lehn
    Peter D. Mitchell
    George Andrew Olah
    Wilhelm Ostwald
    Linus Pauling
    Max Perutz
    Frederick Sanger
    Michael Smith
    Harold Urey
    Milton Friedman
    John Harsanyi
    Friedrich Hayek
    John Forbes Nash, Jr.
    Amartya Sen
    Jean-Paul Sartre
    Samuel Beckett
    Bjørnstjerne Bjørnson
    Pearl S. Buck
    Albert Camus
    Anatole France
    John Galsworthy
    Dario Fo
    Nadine Gordimer
    Gao Xingjian
    Pablo Neruda
    Eugene O’Neill
    Bertrand Russell
    George Bernard Shaw
    Jean-Paul Sartre
    Wole Soyinka.
    John Steinbeck
    José Saramago
    Norman Angell
    Klas Pontus Arnoldson
    Mikhail Gorbachev
    Linus Pauling
    Andrei Sakharov
    Elie Wiesel
    Pierre Curie
    Marie Curie.
    Peter Higgs
    Zhores Alferov
    Hannes Alfvén
    Philip Warren Anderson
    John Bardeen
    Patrick Blackett
    Nicolaas Bloembergen
    Niels Bohr
    Percy Williams Bridgman
    Louis de Broglie
    James Chadwick
    Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Paul Dirac
    Albert Einstein
    Enrico Fermi
    Richard Feynman
    Val Logsdon Fitch
    James Franc
    Dennis Gabor
    Murray Gell-Mann
    Vitaly Ginzburg
    Roy J. Glauber
    Peter Higgs
    Gerard ‘t Hooft
    Herbert Kroemer
    Lev Landau
    Leon M. Lederman
    Albert A. Michelson
    Konstantin Novoselov
    Jean Baptiste Perrin
    Isidor Isaac Rabi
    C. V. Raman
    William Shockley
    Erwin Schrödinger
    George Smoot
    Jack Steinberger
    Igor Tamm
    Johannes Diderik van der Waals
    Eugene Wigner
    Francis Crick.
    Rita Levi-Montalcini
    Julius Axelrod
    Robert Bárány
    George Beadle
    J. Michael Bishop
    Sydney Brenner
    Francis Crick
    Max Delbrück
    Christian de Duve
    Howard Florey
    Camillo Golgi
    Andrew Huxley
    François Jacob
    Paul Lauterbur
    Charles Louis Alphonse Laveran
    Sir Peter Medawar
    Jacques Monod
    Thomas Hunt Morgan
    Herbert J. Muller
    Élie Metchnikoff
    Rita Levi-Montalcini
    Hermann Joseph Muller
    Paul Nurse
    Ivan Pavlov
    Richard J. Roberts
    John Sulston
    Albert Szent-Györgyi
    Nikolaas Tinbergen
    James Watson

    Raise your hand if you recognize anyone on the list. 🙂 These are also the ones who won a small prize called the Nobel Prize.
    Now with regards to your “unbiased” part of the question. Yes they are unbiased because they do not differentiate between his religion or their religion, they say that the collective religion is just smoke and mirrors.

    Fourthly, //Have you counted and are you able to give the statistics of the majority vs the minority?//
    Yes, research has already been done and yes majority and minority is established. Hard scientific proof with solid evidence is established. There’s a wonderful paper by John W Loftus in which he clearly specifies the different disciplines and leading scientists who have proven the blatant lies of Christianity, God is dead, Friedrich Nietzsche predicted it over a century ago. No, God did not die. We just came to the realization he never existed in the first place. We no longer need him to explain what needs to be explained. We now have better natural explanations of the existing phenomena. They explain more without recourse to the ad hoc theories that supernatural explanations offer believers. Theologians came to realize this in the 60’s as announced on the cover of Time magazine, April 8, 1966. What killed him? The sciences. Lorenzo Valla disproved God and Religion in Philosophy. Copernicus and Galileo disproved the lies of the church in Astronomy. Charles Darwin and Pierre-Simon La Place disproved the Church and Religion in Biology.
    Everything after this was a forgone conclusion. The Bible was nothing more than a human product. There was no need of looking for a divine mind behind the human authors. If God revealed himself to human beings he did so in ways that are indistinguishable from him not revealing himself at all.
    Archaeology has debunked many stories in the Bible. Archeologists have discovered several ancient Mesopotamian texts that predate the ones in the Bible and tell similar superstitious stories of the origins of the universe. It has also shown us there was no Exodus of the Israelites out of Egypt.
    Psychology shows us we are largely products of our environment, that we think illogically many times, that we believe what we prefer to be true, that human beings are not evil so much as ill largely because of their social environment. Psychology shows us there can be no wrathful God who will punish us forever because of what we believe.
    Anthropology has shown us from the fact that there are many different cultures around the globe and with it a great deal of religious diversity, that there are many rational ways to understand our place in this world. Human beings get along just fine living in these so-called difference universes. As a result many people are embracing multiculturalism. This is contrary to any given located cultural expression of Christianity which equates their Christianity with the absolute standard for cultures as a whole. Such a parochial limited notion is absolute hogwash.
    Neurology shows us there is a extremely close relationship between our beliefs and neuron firings, which can be drug induced, or even surgically removed. There is therefore no need for the supernatural explanation of the soul.
    In fact, these and other sciences have repeatedly pummelled religion for centuries. The fact that there are still believers is a testament to the stubbornness of belief and an almost wilful ignorance to believe despite what they teach us because of the psychological need to believe. This need to believe is most clearly seen in the mind of the believer when we consider the massive amount of ubiquitous world-wide suffering and the lack of any satisfactory theodicy explaining why a good omnipotent God allows it. The only explanation that can account for continued belief in the presence of this suffering is wish fulfilment.

    Fifthly, //Usually Idiots are the ones which side with Majority and not examine the facts for themselves.//
    Now now Admin, don’t make it so easy for me also… This statement implicates no one else other than you. You believe in the Bible and Christianity, pray tell me where’s your proof to believe the same? Your beliefs stem from the following causes; the belief of your parents, the church / ecclesiastical institution you have been going to since birth, the indoctrination endured every weekend (minimum). The prayer and supplication offered every day twice in your family and last but not the least a fear of the unknown and a developed fear of eternity in fire. These are the things which root you in your beliefs but as you progressed in your age, your faith in your own ecclesiastical institution has wavered, you’ve been justifying it in your head that TPM is wrong but your ingrown fear of God and religion has still made you stay in the doctrines of the religion, whereby you’re picking and choosing what would suit you better and what would justify your picked and chosen beliefs. The majority religion in the world is currently Christianity, that would make you follow the majority, if not the RC doctrines Atleast the spiritual scripture of the dominant faith.
    What can you prove?? Can you prove the existence of your God? Can you prove the truth of your scriptures? Can you prove any belief of yours??.
    Ask me and I will prove all my beliefs because for me 2+2=4 because I can prove it. How can you prove your beliefs?… Better yet… What can you prove??

    1. Well, your answer sounds to be quite from an unintellectual mind with huge prejudices.
      1. How come you have associated the product of ancient writings (Genesis in this case) as a product of Religion? This is because you are not able to distinguish Religion from God. Till you do not distinguish Religion from God, you will continue in this same path. Genesis can be read and understood by anybody. It does not require the crutches of Judaism or Christianity to support it or even advocate it.Genesis stands or falls based on its own merit. If you are critiquing Genesis, be sure that you have some strong support and not hearsay like what you are doing now.

      2. A set of Atheists saying Christian scriptures are false is no proof of the scriptures being false. It is as good as my word against yours. To prove it to be false you need to give evidence that Genesis is not written by Moses as is claimed by Christians. Can you provide evidence and emprical data for the same?

      3. I did not ask you to put up a list of Nobel Laureates. What I wanted is the List of Academic Scholars which were unbiased and proved your statement which said “Today the majority of academic scholars accept the archeological evidence as showing that the Torah did not have a single author, and that its composition took place over centuries.” . This list shows that you have lost the gas and has no idea what you are talking about. To prove your case, you need to specifically list out Unbiased historians or archaeologists and not some nuclear physicist or an economist. You also need to quote papers published by them which can be proved and evidenced. How come you are arguing your case without any basis?

      4. As far as this point is concerned, you have not given what I have asked. And now do not throw at me some list of nobel prize winners like some kid. Give me some white papers which prove your point.

      6. You are just proving me right because you have no basis for your assertion, but somebody else’s notions.

      You are just exposing your hollowness friend.

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  8. @JK First of all,what did u mean when u say TRUTH?what Truth is like for u?
    @Admin im asking the same question that I asked Nath since you believe everything in Bible is true(I hope u might be using KJV?)
    who was the first witness to Jesus’s resurrection?
    Read Gospel of John (20:1-18)
    Gospel of Matthew (28:1-20)
    Gospel of Luke (24:1-35)
    Gospel of Mark (16:1-20)
    1 Corinthians (15:1-8),and tell me the answer,
    And you haven’t connected Luke and me?I hope u can do that

    1. Why do not you put Nath’s Reply as well in this forum?
      What makes you think that I am a broker to connect people over here. Especially with the ones who do not even acknowledge it.

    2. When different perspectives of a story is explained, the writer tries to highlight the perspective. For eg, when the first plane hit the Twin tower, what happened?
      1. One author may say that Huge Debris fell all over the place
      2. Another Author may say that People started jumping out
      3. Another may say that Rescue teams arrived.
      4. A different Author may say that the adjacent tower crashed.

      Now tell me who is right in the above stories. A comprehensive reader will be able to understand it better because he will reconcile all these perspectives to understand it. Only the Naive will say that the first story is true and the rest are all lies. Similarly in the story of Resurrection, we should be able to reconcile these perspectives and understand the point.

      If you have been to a court where the hearing of a crime is happening, you will hear apparently different testimonies by different witness and these testimonies may not perfectly align in your mind. Does that mean these witnesses are false? Obviously No. All these testimonies are corroborated to form an understanding by the Lawyer and the Judge.

      Would you be kind enough to read this account and let me know if you see any issues with it?
      https://answersingenesis.org/jesus-christ/resurrection/christs-resurrection-four-accounts-one-reality/

    3. @fred
      Why not answer simple question with simple answer, instead of making things complex by asking me to define truth.

      You want how i define truth, then i will define. But first answer my simple question with simple answer.

  9. @admin,Friend!don’t freak out!I believe connecting people is a good thing u do at least for a genuine Christian,do u have any problem in me and Luke connecting?
    The articles itself contains lots of what ifs,and confusions,for eg:
    -The key to resolving these dilemmas is to understand that Peter and John were probably not staying in the same place as the other disciples.
    -If these suppositions are correct, then all of the difficulties are resolved nicely.
    -if true, is a miracle that demonstrates Jesus is Lord(the author himself is not sure)
    -and finally No matter how many objections unbelievers raise, Christians can be confident there are no contradictions in the Word of God.
    I think this author can write a new version of gospel placing everything in a right order.
    I don’t think resurrection story is as accurate as your building story,u need to come up with a better analogy.
    @JK
    For me truth is knowing what is the purpose of life,why and how was universe created,do aliens👽 exist,what is the mystery behind black matter,black holes,white holes ? etc.,show me a religion that explains everything!

    1. //@admin,Friend!don’t freak out!I believe connecting people is a good thing u do at least for a genuine Christian,do u have any problem in me and Luke connecting?

      Why do not you display you email id in the comment? Why take the crutches of Admin? I will not remove it from the comment.


      Its a matter of your understanding against the authors to disagree or not. How come you do not appreciate the fact that these people have not sit together and stitched a water tight story as you feel so. These are genuine accounts as they saw/understood it themselves. And as you did not have any reason to dismiss my analogy, you could not provide a reason for doing so. I am not obliged to make someone believe who has already made up his mind.

      As far as I am concerned, there is no better resurrection account other than the lives of the disciples of Jesus. There is NO other explanation other than the resurrection being true for their deaths at the hands of their enemies. No body will ever die for a Lie which they knew to be a lie. How come 10 of the disciples and a horde of people died for some lie which they knew was a fabricated lie? You should be out of your mind to even think that way.

    2. Fred
      In your desperation to connect to Luke, you have forgotten simple thing – put your mail in comments here or let Luke put his own. Whats big deal in it? Why should admin do that work for you?

      @ my question
      You still didn’t answer .. I asked simple question. Name the religion you think is closest to truth (whatever be truth according to you).

  10. I don’t think divinely inspired is same as bunch of authors writing their perspectives about an event, divine inspired is something that is going to save the world,It shouldn’t be wrong at any point.How did God allow the disciplines to write their own perception in God’s book?

  11. Again you are believing in Resurrection, because of another scripture from the Bible itself,for me disciplines dying is an another mythology like resurrection. You are proving scriptures using scriptures.but still I come to your point,what do u think about suicide bombers and religion extremists who are dying for Their God?

    1. Poor Reasoning

      So you mean. We should be believing some modern historian’s or atheism’s version instead of scriptures and agree to it saying Jesus and his resurrection is a myth ?

      Wow. That is revalation to me. Anybody with even slight common sense will always give credence to contemporary sources than some sources 2000 years later.

    2. Dear Fred,
      I feel you are diluting the context and is wasting the time of people over here with baseless bla bla. Request you to desist from arguments which have no intellectual foundation. You are definitely an avoidable nuisance in this forum.

  12. @JK The whole point of my explanation from the beginning is religion is pointless.You still wanted me to tell the closest to truth religion(that means u r sure,no religion is 100% true,there are some lies in it).
    There are different method of pursuing truth other than religion i explore that,i just dont read cavemen’s version of truth and it’s funny how people thought back in times!

  13. If you see admin, he is like anti Christ slowly and gradually injecting like serpent that there is no rapture, no resurrection, no need of church, no need to respect saints, and now Bible is incorrect. Better to stay away from such.

    1. Agree Mark. This Fred has no logical reasoning and keep jumping like a frog without analyzing any point in its merit. I have no interest in diluting the focus of the website to somebody who has no scientific temper in his arguments. I have let him know my position. Surely he has an anti-christ spirit as I have noted this kind of attitude with muslims in many discussions.

  14. @Johnson,When u say believe it has a different meaning.for eg:you don’t believe there is sun,moon.You don’t believe you have a parents, siblings.You say either you have or you dont,.For me I don’t believe in anything, either something is true or it is not.even you don’t have too, because when u believe something is true,its only your belief and not reality, because u can’t make assumptions about the reality

    1. Well it is the ability to have faith, hope and belief that sets us apart from animals. Even the devil has the ability to believe. Sadly you don’t.
      Reality is in the eyes those who behold.
      Humble request to you is pls., stop challenging the Almighty Lord.

  15. Dear Fred,
    Contact me on luxmasdecember@yahoo.com

    When people say they believe, they have faith in or their beliefs. None of that is based on solid evidence or proof.
    As I said there are different factors which impacted their beliefs and that is why these beliefs have become facts to many.
    Moreover Admin asked me if I’m just trying to show what I know.
    That’s the thing that sets us apart Admin, I know… You believe.
    I know from evidence, you believe from folktales.
    And to anyone questioning if this is the spirit of Anti christ and Lucifer and what not… All these are just beliefs taught to the sheep of Christianity with only one thing in mind… Fear.
    You feat hell, you fear the devil, you fear eternity, you fear lucifer, you fear God… This fear is what makes you a Christian.
    No one is challenging anyone almighty, I’m challenging your concept of blindly believing in the belief of someone Almighty.

    People like me or Fred did not intend to become a nuisance in your esteemed and holy website. We were making rational discussions but instead of providing arguments with solid proofs all the tenants of this site has done is pounce on us and call us anti christ and Lucifer. That TPM spirit of doing this has still not left you I guess.

    Admin said we do not have any scientific temper in our arguments, that’s a lie. From the beginning we have been making arguments fixed on scientific evidence but you were the ones coming at us with pitchforks.

    You mentioned about the Noble Laureates I had named in my comments, If I had to mention what they said about religion then your website wouldn’t be enough.

    Now, for arguments sake, let’s say you want to convert me to Christianity.
    What’s your evidence that Christianity is the only true faith?? What’s your evidence that only Christians will go to Heaven? What’s your evidence that anyone else belonging to any other religion will go to hell??
    If you claim that your Bible is the truth then provide me proof that your Bible is infallible.
    I will wait for your proof. If you can provide the proof then I will repent my ways and come to each one of you personally and declare that Jesus is the true God.

    Untill then… If there is a true living God then I challenge him to show his own proof, else I’ll continue to believe that either he’s dead or he never existed at all.

    1. Dear Luke,
      I have been requesting you to provide evidence to your assertions. You haven’t provided even one.

      If I ask you the cost for rice, you will tell me the weight for pulses. This kind of response is only from someone who has no base.

      Then why this long essay. Should not a wise person spend his time to provide evidence for his comments rather than all these vain attempts?
      As you are not able to provide any evidence I see that you are just following the majority and do you need me to tell the type of people who goes along with the majority?

      If you cannot provide evidence and substance to your assertions please do not waste your time here.

  16. @luke
    What a proof for absence of God..

    I’m impressed… you are the first person revealing this to world.. There is nothing of this sort people here have seen or witnessed

    There is nothing of this sort debated in academics , we have no YouTube video debates of respected scholars debating this… People are dumb here unaware of things you are saying.. thanks for your intriguing contribution .. your arguments shows you are very intelligent…. Lol ..

    Here is a small list of Christians who have made contributions in science & technology..
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_and_technology
    What is your academic scholarship or global recognition or contribution to science and technology that we should not believe testimony of these Christian scientists whom the world recognizes as scientists, and believe you, as if these men were fools and you are very intelligent…

    2
    1
    1. Dear All.
      I think we are diluting the focus of this site and hence request all to take this discussion elsewhere if you think you need to continue. The people of the likes of Luke and Fred does not even deserve a reply as they do not hold to any discussional points. They jump out and never answer the points. Such people are just a waste of time.

    1. Dear Brother,
      Its not that these people do not know about God. But are willfully trying to suppress the truth. Its like closing the eyes and proclaiming that it is Dark.


      20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
      21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
      Romans 1:20-21


      There are so many sites dealing with these kinds of arguments and I feel they have done a fabulous job. One of them that I can recommend is https://carm.org
      All these people are a product of neo- atheistic teachings. The Bible asks us not to get involved with these kind of people who are not genuine seekers but are deluded souls who love the lie 2 Thess 2:10-11.

      20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely(Evolution in this case) so called: 1 Tim 6:20


      If you have noted the conversations in this page, you would have noticed that they are not sincere in answering to our questions to have a decent conversation but jumping to another point and from that point jumping to another. What does that show? It shows that they are either INSINCERE or COWARDS.

      For eg. Fred said God is Dumb and Luke twisted it as Religion is Dumb. Then when I asked him to name Enoch’s religion, he came up with an excuse that the Genesis is not written by Moses only. Then I asked him to prove his point, he replied back with a list of Nobel Laureates. How can somebody ever converse with people who do not hold on to a point for discussion. They are running away from the discussion because they know that they are standing in a swamp.

      Then in another conversation, I showed fred the case of corroboration of witnesses in a crime. He dismissed it without any reasons. Then when I said that the lives and death of the disciples were proof of the resurrection of Jesus he dismissed it as a myth without any reasons.


      Luke and Fred reminds me of this person asking question with the assumption that science has disproved the things written in the bible. Watch this video

      You can go through all the conversations and see for yourselves that these guys are just nuisance and nothing more. Hence I have decided to remove their comments on this topic after asking them to desist from doing so. However, you might have noted that they continue to send out comments showing that they do not have any decency of behavior.

      10
  17. @Fred & Luke

    Though I agree with some of the points raised, you go far out when you say that there cannot be a God because science cannot prove it.

    The very notion of God makes it understood that He is something which cannot be analysed, tested in a laboratory or “proven” under certain tests or conditions. The very fact that we assume that if something cannot be tested or proven it must not be true smacks of arrogance or conceit.

    For example, all the known physics in earlier centuries said that without any prevarication, heavier than air flight was impossible and would never happen. Even before that, the greatest and brightest men alive said static electricity was supernatural in nature, as it could not be replicated or even caused. But we now have aeroplanes and static electricity can be caused/replicated.

    The best and brightest scientists of the 1950’s said space travel was a total impossibility and time spent on it was time wasted. I think it is the arrogance of man to say, “Well, NOW we’ve got it all figured out. NOW we know.”

    There are billions of things out there which man cannot test or figure out. There are many things in known science like quantum entanglement and dark matter etc. which scientists have yet to get to the bottom of. How can we then say equivocally that there is no God? How can we trust scientists who are ultimately human beings albeit with a higher IQ to dictate what is and is not true concerning everything out there? Science only reveals what it has tested to be true. Does not mean that it has revealed all that is ever to be revealed. Does not mean it has a laboratory built to test intangible things like God or love or emotion.

    And since you both are confident that science is the right source for everything, why have one of you asked a question above saying you want to learn about aliens? Are there any proof of aliens? Can scientists prove it? If not, then it definitely is something that does not exist. Then why are you curious to know about them?

    1. Please listen to the below videos and we sincerely believe that it will do good. Be cautious of people who use cheap tricks to sway your opinion against the scripture.

      These videos exposes some of their techniques

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