Déjà vu, TPM – the Modern Friars

Yesterday I happened to see a short satire on India’s current political environment. It said that the political environment of our days is a repetition of India’s political environment of yesteryears.  Same tactics were repeatedly employed as we see today. The only difference is that it was Congress then and now we have BJP. Remember how poverty eradication (गरीबी हटाओ), and development of the nation (विकास) were used by BJP in last elections? It’s not new! Congress used the same in yesteryears. Are you worried about the political agenda to divide nations on communal grounds? This also is an old trick. First, the British used it and then the Congress  Party and now BJP. Have you seen blind devotees calling other Indians as traitors, just because they opposed the ruling party? This is also not new. Do you see the ruling party making attempts to suppress the voice of critical media? Even this is a repetition of what happened earlier! It is reported that Sanjay Gandhi bought distribution rights of the movie which was a satire on the ruling government and burnt all copies. If you compare all the above with TPM then you will find that the style of operation of the system is similar. Check the table below.

BJPCongressTPM
Made promises of depositing black money into each Indian’s account, and taking the nation towards developmentPromises were made to – remove poverty, develop the nation. People then assumed that the problem will be over soon.Prosperity promises like God will bless you if you give tithe” & promises to make people think that soon problems will be over
Caste-based and communal-based division of peopleCaste-based and communal-based division of peopleDivides Christendom into superclass (Zion and New Jerusalem) and lower class other churches (New earth/heaven) to rule masses
Tries to control and manipulate media to suppress the voice of critical mediaTried to suppress the voice of satirical movie by burning themProhibits use of media facebook internet TV WhatsApp etc to keep people ignorant of their devices and manipulations. Tried to suppress by bribing media houses in Kanakaraj case.
Devotes call opposition as betrayers of nationIt was done in yesterday yearsDevotees call others as backsliders.

The Core Subject

Déjà vu, TPM - the Modern FriarsAlthough we have included TPM in the above table, we didn’t originally intend to include it. We’ve added it as additional material because it is hard to miss the comparison of the system of operation. However, my original intention to write this article is to show you how “History repeats itself.” The Book of Ecclesiastics confirms this “the thing that has been it shall be again, and that which is done shall be done again. There is nothing new under the sun (Ecclesiastes 1:9).”  The Apostle Peter also mentions the same “there were false prophets in those days as they are among you (2 Pet 2:1).” Devil is called as Old Serpent (Revelation 12:9) because he uses the same tricks again and again. Paul says we are not ignorant of Satan’s devices. His old methods become new tricks for a new generation. Evil fruit and sinister system of TPM is similarly not a novice creation of 20th century. Devil has been repeatedly creating similar systems in his own image and likeness for many centuries. Nick here and nick there and boom; – a new institution emerges.

Déjà vu* is feeling that makes you think that you have seen something similar earlier. I was reading one old reformer of the 14th century and I felt déjà vu. I remembered that what he was taking then was what I had seen in TPM.

The Era of John De Wycliffe

In the middle ages, there were varieties of “monkish orders” under the umbrella of the Catholic Church. One of it was known as friars. These unmarried monks lived opulently on people’s hard earned money. They were so nasty that people for the fear of them, refrained their children from going to schools, because these monks, used to teach children to join their ministry and behave like them. They taught children that if your parents say “you have to cross over my dead body to join order of friars,” then tread over their bodies. We thank God that since the last few years none of the TPM Youths has joined the NTC Ministry. This year also they had ZERO enrollment in their ministry.

At the appointed time, God raised a man by name John De Wycliffe to rescue his people. He fearlessly preached against the pope and the Catholic Church. One of his published works distributed in England was titled – “against the friars.” What he wrote in the 14th century is perfectly applicable to TPM of the 20th century. This article is a republication of some of his tracts “against the friars.” If you happen to be an honest unbiased TPM minister, you will feel something like Déjà vu.  You will realize through John De Wycliffe’s works how TPM is an old trick of the old serpent under a new name.

Excerpts from  “Against the Friars

Orange coloured letters below are excerpts taken from John De Wycliffe’s writing (paraphrased for simplistic reading). If you are an avid reader and can handle large texts and Old English, then you are advised to read original work via this link (click here to read exact wordings).

1. Friars hinder the free preaching of Gospel            

These friars say, “that it is apostasy and heresy for a priest to live as Christ has ordained for a priest to live.”  If there be any priest who travels from country to country, sowing the seed of God’s word as Jesus and his apostles did, then these will pursue him as an apostate, and draw him to prison. To preach independently and freely is correct because this method is established and commanded by Jesus. He did not command preachers to live inside closed buildings (cloister) as if it were Castle. So friars should forsake closed buildings and their lifestyle of living under feigned obedience. And to this same Christ ordained all his apostles and disciples, to live an open good life, in meekness and willful poverty, to teach busily his Gospel to the people, and not to be closed in great cloisters, and costly as castles.  This seems an open doing of Antichrist, who does not want priests to freely preach the gospel but be under prison of rules after the will of the simple idiot (pope). This is not after the example of Jesus. This ministry of living in a closed building is according to the tradition of sinful men.   (Taken from chapter II part III of works of John De Wycliffe 14th century)

Surprisingly TPM ministers also condemn independent pastors and constantly belittle them. They also live in a closed building instead of going around propagating the gospel message. How can one cease from wondering why the so-called church established by God (TPM) repeats the same mistakes which Friars did centuries back?

2. A man once professed to their religion may never leave it

Also, friars say, that if a man is once professed to their religion (their organization), he may never leave it,… (Taken from chapter III part III of works of John De Wycliffe 14th century)

               Surprisingly TPM ministers also say that to leave TPM and their group is backsliding. T. U. Thomas preached in workers meeting that if a worker falls from Zion he will directly fall into deepest part of hell. Very rare are those in TPM who will apply their minds to understand this kind of manipulation.

3. Traditions of Friars are preferred over Christ’s commandments

Also, friars charge more breaking of their own traditions, than the breaking of the commandments of God. For a friar shall more be punished for breaking of one of them, than for breaking of God’s hest. By this, they show how they love their own worship more than God’s. For if a friar leave bodily habit (uniform), he is called as apostate (backslider), and sharply pursued, sometimes to prison, and sometime to the death, although he serves better God without his habit, than therein: but though he trespass against charity by impatiency, and false leasings, or pride, or covetousness, it is little or nought charged; (Taken from chapter VII part III of works of John De Wycliffe 14th century)

Wycliffe is saying that friars used to charge (punish) those workers who disobeyed one of their rules and tradition. They would punish them in prison. We see that if TPM worker behaves not according to rules of TPM, then they are punished and placed in centre faith home in one room (like prison). He is not given charge of any faith home, for some period and given inferior food. Wycliffe says friars did not punish them who disobeyed God.

Likewise, we see many sodomy practitioners, immoral workers, murderers not being punished in TPM. TPM punishes and puts those workers in a closed room of centre faith home who is found taking medicine or disobeying elder workers or doing something against manmade rules of TPM. Wycliffe says that if any friar changes his habit (uniform) and wore normal clothes of a citizen, then they call him an apostate or possessing the spirit of a backslider. We know that in TPM a worker once he has put TPM uniform, is prohibited to wear a normal uniform of normal citizens. If he is found to be doing so, he will be thrown out or punished. However, there is no punishment for hypocrisy, immorality, sodomy, partiality, fornication etc. They may at times be transferred to hide the disrepute.

Stealing of Children and enticing them to their order

Also, friars draw children from Christ’s religion into their private order. For they tell that their order is more holy than any other and that they shall have a higher degree in blessings, than other men, …and say that men of their order shall never come to hell, but shall judge other men with Christ at judgment day: By saying so, they steal children from father and mother, and sometimes such children who should sustain their father and mother by commandment of God. And thus they be therefore cursed of God, as the Pharisees were cursed of Christ, to whom he says thus: Woe be to you, scribes and Pharisees,.. that compass about the water and the land to make a man of your religion, and when he is made of your religion, ye make him double more a child of hell. And since he that steals an ox or a cow is damnable by God’s law: much more he that steals a man’s child.

How often we have criticized TPM’s shameful robbing of children from parents in the name of ministry. If stealing of abstract objects is punishable by the law of God, then stealing children from parents is heavily punishable and in the case when there is only one child for parents in old age, it is horrible to rob him to make him serve centre pastor (appachen) and ammachi, instead of his own parents. This practice is seen even in western nations which we consider as advanced societies. Click here to read one such testimony.

5. Their Building of church buildings and costly Monasteries/Cloisters

Also, friars build many great churches, and costly waste houses and cloisters, as it were castles. There is no need for these buildings. And so they teach by their actions that men should have heritage and dwelling city in the earth, against what St. Paul taught. Though it rains on the altar of the normal churches, still the blind people are so deceived, that they will donate to big mansions of friars than to broken little churches of independent preachers. If men say that in these great churches God is fair served; then I say, great houses make not men holy. For in heaven that was so fair, Lucifer failed, and so did Adam failed in paradise. And Jesus says, that the great temple of Jerusalem, which was once a house of prayer, was also made a den of thieves. But Job served God full well, on the dunghill, and Christ prayed in hills and deserts. And therefore Christ and his apostles made no great churches nor cloisters; but went from country to country, preaching the Gospel and teaching men to do their alms to poor men, and not to waste money on building big houses. For Christ taught men to pray in spirit and truth. (Taken from chapter XVII part III of works of John De Wycliffe 14th century)

How filled with the Spirit of God his words sound! Imagine the great network of costly buildings of TPM! They pour millions and billions on purchasing and construction of convention grounds which are not utilized except during four days of the convention. They teach other we do not belong to earth but themselves enjoy the comfort of lands and permanent house in name of God. Blind believers keep pouring truckloads of money to these hypocrites than distributing to poor independent preachers who live in small villages and preach in remote parts of the earth.

6. How strongly they are married to their Uniform

Friars are more strongly wedded (married) with their rotten uniform….., than the husband is with his wife by ordinance of God. For the husband may lawfully be absent from his wife for period of time or sometimes by common consent of them both, by all their life (divorce); but if a friar be out of his rotten uniform, yea an hour, he becomes apostate (backslider), though he love more God, and serve him better, and profit more to Christian men. And they put more holiness in their rotten uniform than Christ or his apostles did in their clothes.

7. The Necessity and multitude of their vain unchangeable ceremonies

Friars are worse heretics than those Jews, who would keep ceremonies of the old law with freedom of Christ’s Gospel. For the Jews kept reasonable laws made of God, which God ordained for a small time; but friars keep new laws….. For the laws of the Old Testament were a figure of Christ’s coming and passion, and led men to the Gospel, but new laws of friars be not such figure. Ah, Lord, since good laws, ordained of God, are to be ceased for freedom of the Gospel, much more must evil laws, ordained of error, of sinful men, and worldly, cease, and let not men to keep the Gospel in his freedom.

               John Wycliffe says that ‘frairs’ are more horrible than those Jews who insisted and fought with Paul for keeping the laws of Moses. Although the death of Christ freed them from bondage of laws yet they kep themselves under burden of God appointed Laws but friars keep themselves under burden of man made laws. Laws of OT were pointers and tutors that led us to Christ but laws of friars do not lead us to Christ. If OT laws were supposed to be taken out, then how much more are man made laws to be removed! Similarly there are multitude of vain customary ceremonies and traditions in TPM, like funeral rules marriage rules meeting rules etc. Here are few samples;

  • A sister cannot make food in the kitchen without taking permission from an elder sister.
  • Wedding invitation card must be white.
  • There should be no flowers on the marriage stage
  • The bridegroom must wear white shirt pant. No blazers are allowed
  • A cup of milk is given to both bride and bridegroom after marriage
  • A new minister cannot preach from Song of Solomon.
  • A small sister cannot wash clothes of small brother otherwise spirit of adultery will lay hold on her.
  • New brother or sister to be taken in ministry is not allowed to sit in wedding ceremony meetings otherwise a desire to get married will enter in his heart.
  • There has to be a white bed sheet and mat for appachen and ammachi apart from normal mats for believers

These are few of unpublished rules of TPM. Blind devotees ignore examining these rules (which spirit blinds them I don’t know) and keep focusing on marketed rules of TPM like do not wear fashionable clothes. They think TPM rules are for holiness. If OT God-given customary laws needs are abolished by the death of Jesus, then how much more these manmade rules must not be given place?

Conclusion

Some people think these are mere comparisons and they say it is easy to compare. But I wonder how on earth do they imagine that this church with so much borrowed from Catholicism and Pharisee legalism be church established by God? There is no doubt that TPM is the old trick of the old serpent in a new format for a new generation in a new location. It is dexterously deceptive than any other organization that we know.

Innumerable so-called Christians have continued to stay in TPM after centuries of publication of writings of John De Wycliffe. God never appeared to them in a vision and told them to come out of Catholicism. He used the Bible and text of men raised by him and saved his people. Don’t think he will appear to you in a vision and say  “Come out!” He might or he might not. But it will be a grand mistake to remain in TPM, waiting for any prophecy or vision from God calling you out. Stay away from emotional Christianity and be Bereans! May God let the scales fall off from your eyes!

 

 

Rating: 4

38 Comments on “Déjà vu, TPM – the Modern Friars”

  1. OK, so let me get this straight. You’re all here bashing on one denomination of a religion when even what you’re saying or believing is undoubtedly nothing short of hypocrisy. You say that Tpm is evil, they are a cult, I’ve opened my eyes and now I can see how blind I was.
    The fact of the matter is that you’re all as blind as the TPM sheep. All the pro Tpm and con Tpm people are all blind. The only difference is that both you blind groups are in two different paths.
    Stop for a moment and think rationally, logically and using your gray matter. Be it TPM or IPC or AG or RC or Marthomite or Jacobites all are cults. Each professing they are better than the other at the sand time all getting together to profess that non Christians are wrong.
    Look at history and count how many millions have been killed by Christians in the name of Christianity. The number of Christians who have been killed by non Christians pale in comparison drastically.

    You guys evangelize and believe in a God who demands love in exchange of fear. A God who tells you that he loves you but you should approach him with great fear.

    You teach in Sunday schools to your kids that your religion is better than anyone else’s, your God is better than others. You preach and say how you are better and luckier than others. You stub the curious minds of children with rigid doctrinal mumbo jumbo, you encourage “pay to win” philosophy so that the more donations come in the more higher the donator’s pedestal is (one word “elitism”).

    I could go on and on but I want Atleast one of you to stop and think if you the high and mighty are justified to point and ridicule the rest on the same dias as you.

    Yours truly,
    An Athiest born and brought up in TPM.

    Rating: 4
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    1. //OK, so let me get this straight. You’re all here bashing on one denomination of a religion when even what you’re saying or believing is undoubtedly nothing short of hypocrisy.

      Define hypocrisy according to you.

      //The fact of the matter is that you’re all as blind as the TPM sheep. All the pro Tpm and con Tpm people are all blind. The only difference is that both you blind groups are on two different paths.

      This is what I call as Bla Bla Bla without any substance

      // Be it TPM or IPC or AG or RC or Marthomite or Jacobites all are cults.

      This is a list of your making. Apart from TPM, I do not consider others in the list, as CULT. They are institutional churches with varying degrees of erroneous doctrines. You may look up some web pages to know what is the Difference between a cult and a denomination.

      //You guys evangelize and believe in a God who demands love in exchange of fear. A God who tells you that he loves you but you should approach him with great fear. You teach in Sunday schools to your kids that your religion is better than anyone else’s, your God is better than others. You preach and say how you are better and luckier than others. You stub the curious minds of children with rigid doctrinal mumbo jumbo, you encourage “pay to win” philosophy so that the more donations come in the more higher the donator’s pedestal is (one word “elitism”).

      Well this is what TPM espouses and not Fromtpm.com

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    2. Dear Luke
      I agree that there had been blood shed in name of religion, but is religion at the root of bloodshed or is something else at root of wrong ?

      What about bloodshed/evil caused by atheism or by people who have no fear of anybody, who think they themselves are supreme authority (like Hitler)?

      Isn’t it wrong to lablel only Christians or people who believe in God (religion) as the cause of evil ? And if it is wrong, then your views are biased and you never deeply pondered on the root ; you are one like other athiests who is biased towards atheism and define things from your perspective. You are asking us to arise from one perspective (christianity) and use logic, reasoning to think.

      I would like you rise above atheism and think what is the root ! Hope you will think and answer instead of bashing out words out of ego .

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      1. Dear brother Nath,

        Please refer to my reply to Admin as a reply for your respective comment as well.

        Kindly note that nothing has been bashed out of ego neither will it ever be. Please don’t be prejudiced when someone opposing your views point out another perspective. Kindly decline to respond or provide a cordial statement that can be debated in the most respective way.

        Speaking about Hitler, he has described himself in his book ‘Mein Kampf’ as a Christian. In one widely quoted remark, he described Jesus as an “Aryan fighter” who struggled against “the power and pretensions of the corrupt Pharisees” Fun fact, Pope Pius the 12th was on numerous occasions called ‘Hitler’s Pope’.
        Be that as it may, that’s not our point here, the point I’m trying to make here is that religion has led to a lot of bloodshed, you agree to my point as well, but your argument is to show others worse than yourself and declare how “in comparison” you’re not so bad. That’s what is now called as the Trump technique 🙂.

        Mr. Nath, you’ve been asking me to think at the root of all these issues, frankly speaking, that would give anyone an existential crisis. The root is not in the subject or topic of discussion, our topic of discussion is why my dear friend are you still in the clutches of religion? Think with logic, reason and intelligence and convince yourself with 100% conviction if, what, all you believe in, is true.

        I’ll be right here to clarify your confusions if you need to.

        Rating: 4
      2. @Luke
        @@//Mr. Nath, you’ve been asking me to think at the root of all these issues, frankly speaking, that would give anyone an existential crisis. The root is not in the subject or topic of discussion, our topic of discussion is why my dear friend are you still in the clutches of religion? //

        1. Need more explanation on how you come to conclusion that root of all wrongs comes down to existential crisis.
        2. What is at root of every wrong ? Need an clear answer in as simple words you can explain !!
        3. Why is root not to be subject of discussion when attack is grounded upon moral behaviour? Why should religion be targeted when problem lies at root ? Have not millions been killed raped abused for causes which reside outside the realm of religion ? I do not think it as wise idea to try to eradicate symptoms, without diagnosing the cause of symptoms and dealing with the cause. If you eradicate one symptom (religion), another will arise in another form.! Hence root my friend! Root must be identifed and dealt with, by honest rational unbiased souls.

  2. OK Admin, I’ll answer all your questions one by one and put a few of mine forward as well.

    “Define hypocrisy according to you”
    Hypocrisy is when you speak or maintain double standards for your behavior or prejudice. You judge some else by a certain measuring rod but of that same rod is used on you, it doesn’t seem to apply.
    You call the TPM blind and yourselves ‘eyes wide opened’, ‘redeemed’, ‘once a slave but now free’ etc.
    Provide one indisputable proof supporting your claims and I promise I can provide you indisputable proof that even though your Master has changed, you’re all still slaves.

    “This is what I call as Bla Bla Bla without any substance”
    Let’s look at your website from the perspective of your so called TPM sheep. That same statement you used to attempt at slapping away what I claimed is what is being done to your statements; but when the same is said about your “not TPM Christendom”, then oh yeah, I’m the one with the bla and the bla.
    Now don’t get your lungies in a bunch by saying that you do provide backing to your statements by providing verses from the Bible… But then again that would be like saying that you’re just the typical wannabe blind leading the blind from Matt. 15:14. (note said verse as my backing for the Blas.

    “This is a list of your making. Apart from TPM, I do not consider others in the list, as CULT. They are institutional churches with varying degrees of erroneous doctrines. You may look up some web pages to know what is the Difference between a cult and a denomination.”
    Since you mentioned definitions let’s define…also let’s standardize the said definition using one standard dictionary, the ‘MWD’ (M. Websters).
    Denomination: a group or branch of any religion.
    Cult: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents.

    I would have to spend days before I could make evident the difference between the said two statements in discussion.
    So let me reiterate this once more, whatever list of churches you make, with or without my help, said list will in all probability contain the names of cults only.

    “Well this is what TPM espouses and not Fromtpm.com”.
    I did not say what TPM or fromtpm.com espouses. The only thing I mentioned is that Christianity does it. And so does all the other religions in the world. Religion is the easiest and the stupidest lie told to humankind that has worked out to be the easiest way to mint money for the people at the helm.

    Think, why aren’t woman treated as equals in the Bible? Why does Paul sound so chauvinistic and misogynistic? Why does the old testament have to be so rude and cruel but the new testament is all of a sudden about love, love love fire and love?

    If your God is a God who’s standards change with the change of time and depending on the social progression of man then how well can he be trusted?

    After all, you weren’t even supposed to be saved, just because the Jews did not believe in Jesus as the Messiah it “luckily” came to include the gentiles. But what if the Jews had accepted Jesus as their Messiah?…

    From a small age you’re taught that the God you worship is the one true God. Then slowly you’re taught that the denomination you follow has got everything right and nailed out straight. Then slowly this passive teachings turn to aggressive teachings, you have to bear witness, you are an ambassador, tell your friends about Christ. More often than not the said indoctrination is accentuated with “The ready in Christ go to Heaven and those who do not believe in Christ go to Hell.” Has anyone just stopped and wondered why isn’t it taught to love your neighbor irrespective of his religion? Why is the Christian definition of “love your neighbor” such that you have to pray for him and convert him to be a Christian?

    Before I raise questions about your beliefs, I would like to request a few things. Please be civil in your discussions, and let it be known that I expect replies the same way you expect replies from the so called “TPM fanatics”.

    a.) Has it ever been proven that God exists?
    b.) Do you know how many Gods in all the theologies of men have died for the betterment of humankind and risen again?
    I’ll give you a small list of what I care to keep count;
    1.Prometheus
    2.Odin
    3.Penelope
    4.Buddha
    5.Wiccan horned God
    6. Osiris

    c.)

    Read the story of Mithras, Krishna and Ganesha and see how it bears similarity to Jesus.
    How much the story of the God Enki, creation of man, resting on sabbath and the great flood came to be so similar to the Bible.

    But, forget all that, explain to me this, after the so called Messiah “ascended” to the heavens it took the world until 1900 to start the pentecostal movement and reveal the truths of the Bible to the world?.

    After the creation of man, it took so long for him to send his son to the Earth so that people would get closer to God?

    Which means until then, every human soul that lived was simply unlucky?

    Doesn’t look like a wonderful plan for an omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent being.

    Your God requires you to love him only so that he won’t put you in fiery hell. Why can’t I love God for not putting me in hell ever at all.? Is your God so petty that he wants you to love him out of a deep seated fear? That sounds like a tyrant and a dictator, like Hitler or Stalin. Like such a person would belong in Hell.

    Once again,
    Expecting a civil and cordial discussion just as you’d like to be answered to if you were being replied to.

    Regards,
    Your friendly neighborhood sentient.

    Rating: 4
    1. Dear Luke,
      Seems you are having an agenda of atheism vs theism. Unfortunately I am not willing to take this into that direction as that would defocus from what this site is all about.

    2. Hi Luke,

      I must confess I have had these same thoughts & I am a TPM born and bred.

      There are no clear cut answers for your question. However all I can say is I believe in God as a supreme being and creator. Nature and all beings prove some existence of an intelligent design behind it. Also i have seen miracles etc which science and logic cannot prove or test under laboratory conditions. Maybe I am agnostic?:)

      Religion requires faith, however what can be proved does not require faith, so in answer to at least 1 of your question, God cannot be proven as it is a matter of faith.

    3. Some questions that come to me:
      Why does not God just open the skies and tell mankind I am here & I love you all? Can you imagine the change it will make in all of humanity? If cost of not believing in God is hell why will not God do it? Logical conclusion is there is no hell and God wants each person to live life to their best which sound plausible to me. Other option is God will not do such a thing because it is against His will or some other reason. This infers that He doesn’t mind if people go to hell for ever. Sounds implausible to have such a cruel God.

      Or maybe all religion is man made as Luke said and we need to individually seek after God and He reveals Himself to different people differently? There is no one book or hymn sheet that all sings from?

      As Luke said I would love to have open discussions around these things if admin permits.

      Admin – please can we have one article to discuss such things rather than hijacking other threads?

      By the way I agree with most of what is said here re tpm.

      1. @ Faith_Alone
        @ If cost of not believing in God is hell why will not God do it (open up sky and tell…)?

        I don’t think it is the cost of not believing in God that people are send to hell. That is not what bible says (if its message is understood in its crux). Hell for me is equivalent to capital punishment by human judicial system. The idea behind capital punishment by judges of judicial system is that such a person is danger to society. if he is let to roam freely he will make peoples lives hell. So a criminal is put in prison for some time, so that he can change his ways. But when the judge thinks that there is no hope for a person to change or that the crime done cannot be given justice, then he is left with no other choice than choosing to let the person be no more, because his existence becomes threat to the society. And that i think is idea behind hell. People who have not believed in sacrifice of cross, – as only remedy to heal the obnoxious self in them, they will be threat in coming eternity and hence i think God as judge, will execute them in hell (an idea of painful death). So it is not cost of not believing in God! It is cost of remaining independent to supreme being, believing you yourself are capable to choose between good and evil. It is the cost of hubris of self that has not given to its crucifixion and reconciliation with God.

        God on judgment day will be in position to say that he has given enough time for everyone to choose; whether he wants to surrender to God’s authority or he thinks he is good enough to prove himself worthy of living in the world to come. This is what his message (bible) to humanity speaks about.

        If capital punishment is by judicial system is not considered as cruel by general humanity then i do not think God putting people in hell after 6000 years (million according to scientists) can be considered as cruel!

        1. Dear Nath,

          Agree with what you say but the crux of the matter is,
          God sent you to earth (without your choice)
          The nature of sin is within you (again without your choice; you were born with sin, it is not that after coming to earth you chose to take it)
          Then you have to choose to obey God (also one’s choice)
          But if you don’t obey, you go to hell (again not your choice)

          So if you look at it as a whole, man born on earth without a choice & the nature of sin within him indwelt has to obey God or else, it is eternal damnation. Basically, accept God or go to hell. We can explain it with different theologies and reasoning, but basically it comes down to that point.

          That is my opinion, of course you will have yours.

  3. After understanding the cult nature of TPM and also understanding how the term “CHURCH” is a man made business, me too had similar questions which Luke raised here…… 1. Why woman are not treated as equals in OT and as well as in NT? 2. Why Paul sounded Chauvinistic and Misogynistic?

    Christianity as a religion has played a dominant role in causing woman inferior to men in all areas of the society.

    1. I don’t understand why doesn’t the twenty first century Olympics conduct common competition for men and women in the same event for swimming, race, tennis, boxing even archery? I think these twenty first century organizers for Olympics, FIFA etc are male chauvinists.

      We should have a common competition for men and women.

      1. Please do not get me wrong, I do not believe that women are in any way inferior to men.

        Only thing they were not created the same.

        Women are in many ways superior to men in many realms and vice versa. They make each other complete. That’s why the Institution of marriage which of course TPM does not believe in.

        1. Mr. Richie,
          Olympics has got everything to do with physical temperance. If anyone says that “all” men and women are physically equal then they are not making any sense, but, to say someone is inferior only because of their physical condition is just disgusting.
          I don’t know who Richie is but if we were to meet in an athletic competition and I did beat you then would that by default make you my inferior on all accounts?
          The average woman on a level playing field is intellectually smarter than the average man, has a better emotional quotient and has a higher threshold for pain.
          But you say woman is inferior than man just because of higher muscle mass in men and the absence of the ability of gestation in man.
          There’s a reason why men, women and people with physical disabilities have level playing fields in a competition judging athletic prowess.
          Hope this answers your sarcastically framed question which was actually sans any fact.

        2. //The average woman on a level playing field is intellectually smarter than the average man, has a better emotional quotient and has a higher threshold for pain.

          Well how about Chess or bridge? Should not that be a level playing field?


          The Bible does not equate men or woman when it comes to roles and responsibilities. The Bible says that the Husband will be the ruler in the Family as part of the curse on Eve (Gen 3:16). At the same time Eve will bear children with pain. It is part of the Man’s curse that He will have to be the breadwinner and he will have to toil for it and his labours will be painful (Gen 3:17-19). You like it or NOT, this is the way our world is structured and it is a divine providence. Recently the Supreme Court of India passed a Judgement in which the honourable court said that the woman is equally to be blamed for an Adultery just as the man. The entire Feminist movement in India went silent but could not raise any voice as that would be construed as contempt of court.All these while these feminists were vouching for the man’s blood for adultery standing for the wife of that man.
          When it comes to Roles and Responsibilities a Man and Woman is separate. Come to think of it. Only a Father can fulfil the role of a Father and A Mother can fulfil the role of a Mother. That is Why we all have A Father and a Mother irrespective of what the Gays and Lesbians define it.


          However, The bible says that Men and Woman are Equal before God when it comes to the Worth of their Souls (Galatians 3:28).

        3. Yes Mr. Richie they’re not.
          But if you yourself believe that men should be put before women then please elaborate your reason.
          If you don’t think women are inferior to men then why defend the defamation of women?
          I’ve heard so many people, including my own grandmother say “pennungal bharicha veedugal nashichu poyitte ullu” (translation–“the houses ruled by women has always met devastation). Why?? Why do we still hold on to that prejudiced stigma?

        4. @Luke
          Luke consider an off track question.
          Why is there boss in your office. Why don’t you stand for equality for everyone in your firm ? Why only fight for equality between man and woman? Are you at lowest level employee at your work location or do you boss (manager TL) over someone ? If you boss over someone , why not begin right to equality at your office ? Inequality is inequality whether it be between man or man or man and woman ! Ain’t it ,?

        5. Dear Brother Luke

          I never said that women are inferior to men. A woman is more strong than a man in many ways. My mother is a great woman who has shared the responsibilities (both physically and financially) of the family and brought us up. . I am proud that my country had a prime minister like Indira Gandhi who was better than many male prime minsters. I only said that they are not created equal and if you want to believe that I have nothing to say.

          When i was sick my mother sat whole night beside me. When I was down my other gave me hope and strength all this after a days work. I am what I am because of my mother’s prayer.I don’t expect all this from my dad. My mom and dad made each other complete. At the same my dad did many things which my mom couldn’t.

          Regarding the running race with me. I accept defeat. Congratulations.

  4. If God knows the future he would have definitely knew that Eve and Adam is going to commit sin even before their creations.Even before Judas was born his life was predetermined,if he didn’t act according to what was written he would have proven prophesies wrong,So God planned his life ,he had no option.Think of
    Judas life if he didn’t betray Jesus,you would not have been saved!!if not this Judas ,there should be some other Judas and if the value of one soul is more than the riches of this world then God could have easily saved this Judas character,(Now don’t say I have a Judas spirit like TPM folks)🤣🤣,if this is the case and God is true, your life is also fixed to be a Hero or a Villain going to hell ,so you have no options guys,either your going to hell or heaven is fixed by God OR whether God doesn’t know future just he predict like us(What!?A God who doesn’t know the future)

  5. So what the Admin is reiterating is that whatever the Bible says is true… No matter what… Everything written in the Bible has to be followed…
    So now what’s the difference between you and the TPM sheep you mock??

    1. Well the differences between all parties are as follows.
      1 – admin and Co..Follows Biblical Jesus in its truest sense as we know (You will have to disprove it to prove we are not so)
      2. TPM ..Follows an assortment of Biblical teachings with organizational doctrines where it is convenient and twists the scriptures where they have an agenda. This is what the site is proving based on Biblical statements.
      3. Luke.. Has no intent to follow any biblical doctrines but thought to put his atheistic view in a theological site (fromtpm.com). He has no idea why he is in this site which has made its intent clear in its About Us Section

  6. Admin, I’m glad you’ve reached the crossroad I was mentioning.
    You believe that you follow in the truest version of the Bible, TPM sheep believe they are following the truest doctrine on this world, people of other denominations and religions believe that whatever they are taught are the truest doctrines/faith.
    According to you, you’re following the truest Christianity according to the Bible and hence TPM is wrong.
    I am an atheist because I value logic, science, reasoning and rational thought. You value religion based on things like faith, hope, upbringing and fear. I can show you reason, I can show you pretty much anything and you still wouldn’t be swayed because according to you, your beliefs are not just beliefs anymore, you’ve ensured them as facts in your mind.
    Think about it, I don’t understand how any decent person in their sane minds can want eternal hellfire and torment to be true. If a normal sane person, (who as you say is the creation of your ultimate God,) himself cannot envision such a horrible outcome then what good is a God (slow to anger, ever loving, abundant in kindness) who has set forth these punishments as a precedent for the unbelievers?
    According to you how many million people have died so far who hasn’t known Christianity as a truth? according to you how many millions have stood fast in their own faith and religion for whom accepting Christianity and Jesus Christ is as foreign a thought, as you turning into a Muslim or a Hindu?
    If tomorrow a person of Shinto religion comes to you and tells you to believe in Amaterasu because the sun goddess is the creator of all human beings and she gave her children as a sacrifice for human kind, would you believe that person? No.. You would completely dismiss that person as a lunatic because according to you Jesus Christ is the true savior of the world.
    Reverse this same thought, put it into perspective and think of how the normal man of another religion would think when you’re telling him your ‘gospel’.
    So, based on this why would any sane human being, in their sane mind punish someone let alone an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent diety.
    If such a God exists then I would rather be his enemy, than his sheep.
    If religion is your sole moral indicator then something is wrong somewhere.
    But, let me come to the point, the crossroad at where the Admin is now, you dismiss my opinions like it’s nothing, you dismissed me by saying that I’m at the wrong place and you yourself don’t know why Luke is here at this site.
    Same question I put forward to you, if you disagree with TPM doctrines why are you still there? When their doctrines, philosophy and theology is clearly defined and yet you still disagree with them then why are you still there?
    If you think those doctrines are not worth your time and are to be dismissed because of the construed truth then what are you still doing there?… It’s one thing to criticize someone, but it’s hypocrisy to criticize something when you yourself are a part of it.
    Anyway, Admin won’t have to deal with me or my opinions in his biased and prejudiced site anymore. If anyone else would like to discuss the opinions I have put forward here then please let me know and if the Admin permits, I will share my mail ID here.
    Good bye 👋

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    1. Dear Luke,
      If I am sharing a biased version of Christianity, why do not you tell me what is that I am biased for or against? Of course, the Bible needs to be the umpire and not your thoughts vs mine. Are you willing for that?

      One more thing…You have put a lengthy comment where you have put on your rants about Christianity and has a problem with some of those perceptions. I agree that those perceptions might be because of what you heard some Christians said. But did you comprehensively verify the fact for yourself? All your points have rebuttals straight in the Bible itself. But I know you would not take time to study it and want some cooked up answers readymade to consume. I am not willing to give you that comfort.


      The ones that I have met claiming to be atheists are actually agnostics.
      If you are an atheist, you are given the opportunity to prove that God does not Exist.
      The questions and the details you have mentioned, just shows that you are an agnostic now.
      To declare that there is no God, you have to claim to be “KNOWING ALL THINGS” on this earth, under the earth and all over the universe and even beyond that. So according to that, Can you claim to KNOW ALL THINGS? If you can claim to know all things, you better stick around for some hard questions from Admin.

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    2. Luke, I hv read your arguments. And have found nothing new to what I have not been or others have not been. Do not all agnostic and atheists talk alike? Have you spoken something new, or are you having a new challenge we have never heard off?

      The difference is that we came to conclusion based on rationality that it is not possible for humans to have answer to all questions. We see OT God and laws and things mentioned inside it, in a more positive way: my research has led me conclude to find no difference between God of Old and New Testament. We could read scriptures (off course by seeking explanations from other wise men and by what we call as mercy of God), not always in literal way, and on the other hand trying to read beyond letters of word of God, to seek to understand what could be mind of God, beyond the obvious appearing derivations;, not that we have all answers: but allowing for possibility of existence of reasons from perspectives which we could not understand necessarily.

      You on the other hand have taken a moralistic sentimental point of view to conclude God as enemy of something you have concluded as good, without allowing for possibility of reasons God could have to his own defense in his own understanding.

      Let me put it this , Let us imagine as you conclude, that God is bad (in case you are agnostic and allows for possibility of existence of God). What about you and me? Are you good compared to God? Are you more wise more powerful? Do you have better solution to this world ? Can you apply it and make all things new again ? Can you make this world a happy place ? Can you remove tears pain and death from this world ? At least God of Bible gives us hope of better tomorrow. What hope you have for us ? And if you are atheist (not believing in existence of God), then admin has challenge for you: and for me you still have no hope for me or for millions and billions of suffering weeping souls waiting for hope of something redemption from this world field with thorns and thistles.

      I would rather choose God and his promise of hope, than sinking with you in hopeless pit of uncertainty and arrogant. This is better choice in terms of rationality compared to going sentimental and declaring in arrogance — to become enemy of God if he exists.

  7. There are a lot of sisters visiting this section If I have hurt any of the sisters by my comments on equality I ask you to please forgive me. I don’t claim that I know everything.

    It was just my view and I didn’t mean to hurt anyone. I salute all the sisters and I admire them for many which I am not.

  8. @Admin I accept your challenge, I’m not interested in whether God exists or not,but biblical or God In Abrahamic Religions are Dumb and I can prove that
    @Nath
    If u think your God exists like u said,then he can easily remove the sufferings from this earth with a single word,and you are only talking about the sufferings,what about the amount of joy u experienced in your life,why don’t u blame for that?I know sufferings exists and I know that I don’t know anything about the universe and it’s secrets but It doesn’t mean that you should simply believe that there is an invisible man controling all these,this will add more to the already existing sufferings/problems

    1. Fred, My question was to Prove conclusively that God does not Exist. To know that for sure, you need to acknowledge that you “KNOW ALL THINGS”. Can you acknowledge that?
      How come you are forming a different question and telling me that you can accept my challenge? Did you really read my response?

    2. Fred
      He can surely (I believe and you assume) remove sufferings and he has even promised it. In book of Revelation for example he promises – “There will be no more tears .” so yes! He has promised it. And He will do it in his own time by his own wisdom. It is not be necessary for God to dance to your expectation and command to come down now on your or mine beaconing and prove his existence. I have a hope atleast from scriptures. Bible is very honest and it says he kills and he gives life. He wounds and he heals. Therefore it cannot be creation of cunning man. Secondly as I said I have hope not only based in promise in Bible but based on how I find sync between reality and it’s pages.

      But what about you? You are asking me plunge myself along with you in hopeless pit of uncertainty.
      You have no solution to pain n affliction in world. You want me to become arrogant like you and say if he exists, I will be enemy to him. Isn’t that irrational and sentimental statement ? Rationality is in trying to dig beyond literal words to understand how Gods word explain pain came and how he promises to removes. Not necessary we should have answer to every why. We are not that wise ! Are we? But atleast there is reason mentioned and solution provided in Bible.

      It is upto. you to jump in abyss of uncertainty and negativity. It is upto you to puff yourself in vain arrogancy of your ability to bring solution to every sufferings ( I don’t know whether you have it you’ll arrive for sake of argument). If you have no solution, then I think it is wise to accept that is not necessary to have every why answered right now,: it is wise to choose from one of the best available hopes available — of better world tomorrow, rather than showing attitude of sentimental fools (atheists). Sorry for that word – fool. But frankly speaking it is not a wise decision.

    3. Fred
      Is man’s belief in God responsible for suffering in world ? Or is it ego in man ? Think deeply before andwering. Don’t say religious men killed many others who were not belonging to their religion. I don’t accept your argumentation, because if you say so then you are mistakenly calling religion as cause off all sufferings. It is not belief in God but man’s ego to prove his own religion and God right, that we had religious battles. The problem is deeper than religion. If there be no religion, then people will fight and kill each others for some other reason. Darwinian concept — survival of the fittest will always exist as long as self exists: and it will take form of religion, nationality, caste and whatever form it can take go survive. So don’t say man’s belief in someone controlling earth will add to sufferings in earth. That is very superficial observation.

    1. @Fred
      You said, “…. God In Abrahamic Religions are Dumb and I can prove that..”
      Is that a question ?
      Are you trying to say that which Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris has not said ?
      Take my e mail address from admin.

      Answer me my previous questions while you pour out yours for me to answer.

      1. @Fred
        Also if your challenge is predestination based puzzle, then I am sort of Calvinist. Hope you realize predestination puzzle is not a moral challenge “sort-of-calvinists”.

  9. @Nath I say what I know, Richards Dawkins and Sam Harris are nothing to do with me,I don’t FOLLOW them,I mean I never ever listened to their speech,Okay get me your email,let’s discuss and Im happy to say what I know,

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