In the first article in this series , we saw how TPM has a different gospel by adding to the real Gospel. TPM says without believing in TPM’s Zion, we cannot obtain salvation. Anything that adds to the real gospel is a false gospel. The Judaizers in the 1st century said you must be circumcised to be saved (Gospel plus circumcision). Paul calls that a false gospel and says anyone who preaches that is accursed. 2000 years later TPM says it is the gospel plus Zion plus 100 different teachings unheard of in the 1st century. How strongly would Paul condemn TPM’s “gospel”?
In this article we will look at some excerpts from TPM’s publications. We will see how TPM twists God’s word to come up with an idea of a “higher spirituality” that is alien to scripture. Since Zion is their idol, they have to conjure up a faux spirituality to show themselves to be better than others.
TPM’s “spirituality” is higher than God’s
Excerpts from TPM Publications
“Paul speaks of three levels of spirituality minded married couples. (1) The initial married state when they are frequent sexual (I Cor 7:2.41. (2) A higher stage where they, show their love and loyalty to God separating themselves from each other with consent for a time’ that they may give themselves ‘to fasting and prayer’ (I Cor. 7:5). (3) As they continue to grow thus, they come to a still higher plane. They gain control over their body. Their main purpose will be to unitedly please the Lord and to serve Him (I Cor. 7:29-31)” (Voice of Pentecost Jan 1976)
“God wants you to be a “saviour” on Mount Zion to judge the “mount of Esau.” Esau stands for flesh. God is waiting to give you a mighty anointing of the Spirit to show through you that His children can overcome the lust of the flesh.” (Voice of Pentecost March 2003)
“Let the word of God fill your mind and heart. This decisive step dethrones sex from your imaginations and desires, bringing peace and order in your body.” (Voice of Pentecost Feb 1976)
“It would mean that they have perfect victory even in sexual relationship, being wholly attached to God. Such a life is not strange to many saints. St. Paul says, “For I would that all men were even as I myself.” (I Cor. 7:7).” (Voice of Pentecost Feb 1971)
In the book of Genesis we see that it was God who created marriage and sex within the bounds of marriage and calls it GOOD.
As Genesis 1:28 says, it was one of God’s blessing – “Be fruitful and increase in number”.
Genesis 1:31 says “And God saw everything he had made, and behold, it was very good”
Hebrews 13:4 says “Marriage should be honoured by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.”
God is perfectly clear that sexual intimacy within marriage is PURE. The “marriage bed is PURE”. It is adultery and sexual immorality that defiles the “bed”.
But what does TPM teach? TPM absolutely abuses the teachings of apostle Paul to teach 3 levels of spirituality. If you carefully read 1 Cor 7, you can see that Paul doesn’t draw any conclusions. Ever after his advice of abstaining for a while, he says to come together again (and it was only a concession, not a command).
The second excerpt equates joining TPM ministry with “overcoming the lust of the flesh”. Nowhere in the text is Paul teaching that anyone is more spiritual than another. He calls both marriage and celibacy a GIFT. One is not above the other. In any case, the advice of Paul (not a command from God) to remain single was because of the “present distress” (1 Cor 7:26). It wasn’t a blanket statement. By TPM’s logic, none of Jesus disciples had overcome the lust of the flesh since they continued their ministry along with their wives (1 Cor 9:5).
Don’t dare call something that God himself calls “good” as “less spiritual”. TPM has always been guilty of trying to teach an alien spirituality. This idea of some things that God created being “spiritual” and “carnal” in and of itself is derived from Gnosticism.
Thought Of Marriage Is A Defilement
Until now you would have heard that TPM thinks that marriage is a defilement. But, no, TPM goes a step further in their craze to be “more spiritual” and teach that even a desire for marriage is defilement.
Excerpts from TPM Publications
“Our mind should be Zion – spotlessly pure and protected from every kind of defilement – yes from every appearance of impurity. It is not enough to stay unmarried. Even if a desire to get married comes into us, our spiritual life will get defiled. If is a revelation of Zion that protects us from such defilements” (Zion, The perfection of beauty – Page 55)
This is the level of brainwashing people undergo in TPM. The plain truth of scripture is hidden and a faux spirituality is preached. Can TPM point to a single verse that calls marriage a defilement?
Yes, God calls some to live as celibates (Matthew 19) just as he calls others for a married life. But celibacy is never a requirement in scripture and neither is it projected as “more holy” than marriage.
TPM Commands You To Relinquish Your God Ordained Duties
In the process of becoming “more spiritual”, TPM commands its followers to relinquish their God given duties to their aging parents and other dependents.
Excerpts from TPM Publications
“When we come to the consecrated full time ministry, we are redeemed from among men, i.e. we are freed from the responsibility to take care of our parents, brothers and sisters – the Lord has paid for it and we are now free.” (Zion, The perfection of beauty – Page 49)
“All the family members of truly consecrated servant of God will become spiritual. So even if your family members are not saved, you need not worry about it or pray for it” (Zion, The perfection of beauty – Page 53)
Let us contrast the above teaching of TPM with the word of God.
“But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God. Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” (1 Tim 5:4,8)
“For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother [with respect and gratitude]’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of his father or mother must be put to death’; but you [Pharisees and scribes] say, ‘If a man tells his father or mother, “Whatever I have that would help you is Corban, (that is to say, already a gift to God),”’ then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother [since helping them would violate his vow of Corban]; so you nullify the [authority of the] word of God [acting as if it did not apply] because of your tradition which you have handed down [through the elders]. And you do many things such as that.”” (Mark 7:10-13 AMP)
In fact, regarding those who were to become elders, scripture says the opposite. Paul expects elders to be married and have children. That was the norm. He is expecting that this elder should have received a testimony of having raised his children in the fear of God.
“..appoint elders in every city as I directed you, namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe” (Titus 1:5,6)
“He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full[a] respect. If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?” (1 Tim 3:4,5)
You see, Paul does not say anyone who desire to become an elder/overseer needs to desert his family and his responsibility and “God will take care of them”. Had it been the true apostolic teaching, he would have said it.
Being able to take care of one’s family was a prerequisite to becoming an elder. TPM teaches the opposite. Either what TPM teaches is “apostolic” or what Paul taught is apostolic. Both can’t be right.
But you might say, didn’t Jesus say one must hate his father and mother? Of course He did! But don’t let TPM fool you.
“If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters–yes, even their own life–such a person cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:26)
The above verse is about ANYONE wanting to follow Christ. It is not about a group of “consecrated servants of God”. To follow Christ, one must love Christ above all. Every verse that speaks about forsaking your loved ones applies to all believers and in its proper context, it’s about choosing/loving Christ above others. That has been the consistent theme throughout the gospels. Click Here to know how TPM twists the scripture to introduce their doctrine contrary to the scriptures.
Dear readers, anything that contradicts the word of God cannot be from God. Scripture plainly teaches that God created marriage and it honours God. Scripture also plainly teaches that forbidding marriage is a doctrine of demons.
“The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.” (1 Timothy 4:1-5)
TPM’s idol is their made up doctrine of Zion. They will do all that it takes – twist scripture and claim to have received divine revelation – to preserve their pet doctrine.
Will you stand on the side of scripture and call something that God created as “good” or will you stand on the side of TPM and call something that God calls “good” a “defilement”? Your choice.
How does the church get people to become “consecrated” ministers/workers ?
Do these people join of their own will or are they selected for it? A minister kind of prophesied that a particular child (literally) has a calling to serve God as a future minister in the church. Is that how they are chosen?
I know some ministers/workers who willingly went into ministry and these are young educated men, oozing with so much zeal and love for God… are they deceived ? If they are.. why isn’t God Jesus opening their eyes because they truly love Him and want to serve the Lord. I just want to understand what is going on in the minds and lives of these young zealous christians who love the Lord so much that they give up everything, when they find irregularities and unscriptural doctrines within the organization? Do they turn a blind eye? Why ??? What happens to them that their true love for Jesus takes a backseat?
Ministers use the name of God and prophesy that some youth are called for ministry.. is that true? Does God reveal it to them? Can you please give me reasons as to why it cannot be true or what does the pastor benefit from lying to the Church using God’s name.. is he not afraid of God’s wrath? They all speak in tongues and praise The Lord .. so I really don’t understand if anyone can be that brazen and unscrupulous to say such things in the church using Lord’s name? God says some are made eunuchs for the kingdom.. what does it mean?
I have so many questions brother but I honestly don’t know how to even formulate the words.
Almost Everyone in this church speaks in tongues .. how can they all be deceived ? what to make of it? Are they not Christians? Are they not saved?
Can you please do an article on the Holy Spirit and His gifts and fruits? How to truly worship God in the spirit? Is jumping in the church not from God ? How to discern the right spirit?
The solution to all your questions is to kneel in prayer personally and listen the voice of Jesus. I had the same doubts as you had . One suggestion I would give is read the gospels namely Mathew , Mark , Luke , John repeatedly. The voice of Jesus cannot be heard immediatedly. You have to be patient and kneel in prayer alone. I wanted to hear the voice of Jesus and this journey started on Nov 2015. Slowly Jesus started leading me by His holyspirit. So be patient. As per John 14:6 Jesus is the way truth and life. So inorder to follow him you need to directly hear from HIM. The TPM concept that Jesus speaks only to the consecrated servants is 100 % lie and He speaks to everyone those who are serious in following HIM.
Read Mathew 15:9 (TPM Worship on Sunday Service ) . Also true worship is Romans 12:1. So inorder to understand Jesus you have give all your time and have a thirst for HIM. But the yoke of Jesus is not difficult as potrayed by TPM. Please find the below verses Mathew 11:29,30
29. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Jesus cannot be understood by attending all the meetings of TPM. Holyspirit is not about dancing, jumping and hitting others. It is TPM evil spirit. Jesus can be understood and followed by repentence (turning away from sins confessed is true repentence) and sincere prayer on knees. Prayer comes by practice and love we have for HIM,thrist to understand HIM. And Jesus guides us to diffrentiate the lie of devil and HIS voice. So first you stop attending any sort of denominational churches and follow Jesus on knees to clear all your doubts. Don’t allow men to lead you. We are brought with a price to be set free and Jesus has set us free. Follow Mathew 28: 19,20.This applies to all who are sincerely following HIM. He commanded to make disciples not just believers. Holiness can be achieved by following Jesus commands not by outward appearance . His main commnadments are Mark 12:30,31 and Mathew 28:19,20. So when you obey Jesus and follow His commandments then Jesus will reveal Himself (Read John 14:21). So when Jesus clears all your doubts then your mind will renewed and it will be a stream of rivers flowing in your heart with peace and joy 24×7
Surya K ,
First, I sincerely thank you for replying and for your time .
I agree that kneeling at the feet of God Jesus is the only answer to truly know Him, understand Him and His ways and to get His strength to follow Him in truth.
I have a question for you.. Even in previous comments you had mentioned that when you waited at God’s feet you heard the Lord Jesus speak to you. Was it through the scriptures? Was it like a conviction or an audible voice? Please forgive my ignorance ..I guess I am trying to know how the Lord spoke to you, how did He guide you ? how were you sure it was Jesus? If the Lord puts in your heart can you please write in detail about it.
The reason I am asking is, you coming from a church where people strongly tell you that God’s plan is this and that for you and start using prayers and prophecy .., how did you free yourself from these ” crutches”
I have read your testimony … but I guess am asking you for what happened next? How did the Lord and Holy Spirit speak to you? You mentioned you waited for long time.. were you tired and disappointed? What kept your faith going while you were waiting ? Please do answer as the as it can help many people to seek the Lord on their own and not to depend on organizations.
I am very excited that atleast you have started to understand that this is a cult and ready to open your heart to JESUS. I thank Jesus for bringing out souls out of this cult. I was a girl from a hindu family and we are not purely TPM origin. I came to know about Jesus through my sister and mom. We were attending CSI church near our area. But a person X took to this denomination and we were totally hooked to their doctrines. I was very small and I had no personal relation with Jesus. But after I got married and I forced my husband to migrate from AG (Assembly of God) to TPM. During earlier days we never faced any problem. As my husband and me got involved in Sunday class ministry lot of differences began between us and we found no time to talk personally. Then we attended a communion service at IBR where the pastor told that inorder to reach heaven “YOU MUST REMOVE YOUR JEWELS IF YOUR HUSBAND IS SAVED”. So the entire church members started to bully me including SOGs. They told “HAVE THE LORD NOT SPOKEN TO YOU ?” . This is the first time I thought of really asking Jesus “IS THAT TRUE ?” Then they quoted many verses about requisite of communion service .Please go through this link: https://www.fromtpm.com/blog/2018/02/05/the-third-person-in-the-marriage-tpm-clergy/
I was an attendee of the above verses in the link when they preached. It is totally against Jesus commands.It was in the year 2015 I started analyzing myself and their doctrine. So I knelt before Jesus and started to pray and decided to obey Him. Then years went I still went to TPM and attended all their meetings, yet I had no courage to tell that they are wrong. Then on the night of Dec 30th ,2017 I knelt down before Jesus from 11:00 to 2:00 am. I did not feel pain in my leg or knee. I did not open my eyes but all my questions were answered through holyspirit. I cannot explain in words , IT IS SUCH A JOY TO KNEEL BEFORE LIVING GOD. Then I heard an audible voice from outside “I HAVE CHOSEN YOU FOR A BIG WORK !“. Immediately after this incident I felt peace of mind and I was able to understand that this was a cult. I had some secret sins before but once I felt Jesus all those left. Our Lord is mighty. All demons flee at HIS SIGHT. Then I did not take communion on new year eve. I don’t want to get associated with sinners. Since IBR is big fake home I managed to escape from my husband. I differentiated devil’s and Jesus voice by scripture verses. For example I differentiate devil and Jesus by the below verse
JOHN 10:10. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Jesus is the only joy giver and way to eternal life. So when your sins leave and you find joy, peace that dream or vision is from Jesus. This is my strategy in differentiating Jesus and devil. And also HOLY SPIRIT is the best person to guide you. This is just a method I give from my experience. Another dream I had about removing jewels is from satan because the second coming which I saw was not according to scriptures. In that dream only TPM white clad went with JESUS. All were left behind. It is unbilical. Also devil’s dream creates fear. I was so fearful after that dream. But what does Jesus say – Read Mathew 10:26,28. Read John 1:12 . Here Jesus tells we are His children. Then will Jesus allow His children to fear for unnecessary things ?. Even an earthly father will scold and make his children obedient but will not create fear in their mind. So any dream or vision from Jesus can create a warning but definitely not fear.
Brother you need not worry how to differentiate between Jesus and Devil, Holspirit will guide you in that. Prayer is like cooking experience or driving a car. It improves as we spend more time on knees. I am also a beginner like you.Jesus speaks with me daily through prayer, making decisions at work place, sharing gospel.
99 percentage are fake prophecies in tpm.Look at Bible prophecies.Its not vague like these people do.Its very clear and it is also fulfilled.They just say what their mind thinks with some unintelligible words which isnt the tongues spoken about in The Bible.Sometimes its a trance that they are in or maybe it might be The Devil.Why am I saying this because what they say is out of context even if its from the Bible.Thats what The Devil does take words from Bible and take it out of context since the time of Adam.Once they join tpm ministry they are trapped because all their educational certs are destroyed,many years of life lost which will be hard for them to find a new job.And life is comfortable in tpm why would they go and work?Its a mixture of different factors why people stay in tpm.Lack of guts,pressure of society i.e tpm society because thats the only community they have without letting people mingle with other human beings.,Fear of Isolation,Brainwashing,Fear of relatives being punished etc.Its an evil organisation this tpm.1 Corinthians 14:5,1 Corinthians 14:18-19,1 Corinthians 14:26-28,1 Corinthians 12:29-30,1 Corinthians 14:39-40.Acts 2 etc speaks in simple words what it all means.Its not as complicated as tpm makes it out to be.You need to have a translator before speaking in tongues its very clear.One of the verse I cant remember Paul says if I just say tongues of man and angels but no love then its like making sound and noise.See if you ever see real love in the hearts of the people of tpm.Ive been in this for decades and rarely seen love.And if I have then its because of a few good people.
JJ, your concerns are valid. I too struggled with the same questions for years. One thing kept me steady. The knowledge that scripture is the final authority. We mustn’t let our experiences and testimonies of others define truth.
Now concerning your questions, I’ll try to explain how I reasoned them.
1. Whatever “consecration” TPM speaks of is unheard in the New Testament. Scripture makes it crystal clear regarding the qualifications of elders. TPM style “consecration” wasn’t one of them. To put it bluntly, TPM’s teachings surrounding consecration is man-made. ..just as the teachings surrounding the consecration of Catholic priests are man-made.
2. Most of what TPM calls “prophecy” are nothing but feelings. The feel they have to say something (sometimes well intentioned in their minds), and they say it with “Thus says the Lord”. TPM relies on extra biblical sources to “confirm their calling”. Sometimes it is a “prophecy” like you said, other times it is a song that they heard on Sunday.
3. I know many Roman Catholic priests have decided to live as celibates out of zeal for their God as well. Doesn’t make them right? God is opening the eyes of many TPM ministers. That is why they leave the ministry..only for TPM to vilify them and call them “fallen”. Maybe God is using this website to open their eyes. Let me ask you, there are thousands of well meaning Catholics who have zeal for the Lord yet caught up in the works based salvation of Catholicism. Why isn’t God opening their eyes?
4. TPM is cultish. After having bought into “this is the only church that has deeper doctrines”, it is extremely difficult to even see errors in doctrine. I didn’t for over 20 years. I turned a blind eye. I explained it away as best as I could. The same is true with TPM ministers. Having been brainwashed for years, it is almost impossible to even consider the possibility that the doctrines are wrong. You see, in TPM, the final authority is Pastor Paul and Pastor Alwin because it is to them that “God revealed these deeper truths”. Bible comes secondary.
5. I do not think Pastors are intentionally lying. Like I said, in TPM those who prophecy do not hear an audible voice. They merely convey what they feel in their heads. Is it any wonder that most prophecies in TPM are so repetitive? True prophecy CONVICTS and CORRECTS error. With so many false doctrines in TPM, if there was truly a gift of prophecy, we would have heard a lot of corrections in their doctrines.
6. The fact that everyone speaks in tongues IS NOT an indication of their spirituality. It is an indication of their DISOBEDIENCE. Scripture plainly states that in church ONLY 2 OR 3 must speak in tongues and ONLY if there is an interpreter (1 Cor 14:27). TPM disobeys that commandment. We do not see ANYONE in the NT jumping uncontrollably. These are mere theatrics. Worshiping in spirit and truth is derived from John 4:23,24. In the Old testament, people worshiped God with the externals in the temple. In the NT we worship “In spirit and in truth”. Truth is a Christ and the gospel that he preached. “In spirit” speaks of spiritual worship that flows from our spirit. Since we are born again and God’s Spirit indwells us, our worship flows from our spirit (which was dead in sin) made alive. TPM thinks worshiping in the spirit means whatever happens in their tarrying meetings. It is not.
Br.Ranjith , Thank you for sharing your experience.
As when dealing with death or loss of something dear, people go through various stages of grief, I guess, I am also dealing with stages of shock, denial, anger, bargaining and now in the stage of acceptance of the reality of this organization for what it is.
Only after reading articles from this website, I started to keep my mind, my eyes and ears open as to what was happening in the church during tarry meetings and Sundays. Before reading articles from this website , I was cowardly and afraid..thinking who am I to question the chosen? the elect of God?
Even when rational questions would pop in my mind , and even when logic and scriptural verses were at cross with the church doctrines and teachings sometimes, I would suppress and ignore these inklings. Listen to the ministers,/workers.. unless you want to be turned to a pillar of salt like Lot’s wife! Don’t be like Aaron and Miriam, who questioned Moses and got leprosy! hearing all these really created fear in me, and as much as I am ashamed to admit I wanted no more problems in my life because of disobeying “godly” people, I have enough problems in life already.
But gradually and naturally, my anger turned towards God.., Why is God silent? Why can’t He do something ? I feel abandoned, disowned and betrayed by God.. I have lost so much in my life because of trusting their doctrines, believers and ministers.. it was my desire to know God more that brought me to this church in the first place, I really feel betrayed by God sometimes, isn’t He sovereign? But I guess I am the one at fault, I was young and naive and stupid and with a romanticized idea of serving the Lord. Well God is merciful and He alone I still trust.
I can very well relate to your experience as I’ve been there, done that. Had my fair share of doubts & questions and finally, after having received clear instructions from God, from His Word, I and my family have come out of it. Praise God for that.
Regarding your “why?”, I believe Scripture has the answer. Remember the parable of “The Rich man and Lazarus”? We know at the end how the rich man was pleading to be sent back to his family so that they don’t end up in hell with him. Remember the response?
Luke 16:31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Everything is there, plain and simple, in the Word of God. Now until and unless you don’t decide to seek answers with a clear mindset and leading of the Holy Spirit, you will not find the answers. Those who you think are so holy and pure, either they are blinded/deceived by the “holiness superiority complex” of being a TPM member (worker or believer) or else, it is willful ignorance coupled with not having the fear of God. And as one of the comments read, they’re so used to this life that they are clueless about what to do once they leave this organization, the other reason being, their certificates are all gone!
Seek and you will find.
God bless you.
“For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. ”
This is the oft quoted verse to show-off their own ‘High calling’. However, TPM makes it mandatory for their recruits to be unmarried ( I don’t say celibate). So, don’t they come under the category “made eunuchs of men”?
Also, the above quoted verse shows the gift and sanctity of marriage. The disciples were worried when Jesus explained the sanctity of marriage in the eyes of GOD. The perplexed disciples said “If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.”(v-10). Jesus replies about it in the following couple of verses.(v-11,12). However, TPM tends to pick v-12 alone and imply that the phrase “He that is able to receive it, let him receive it” to celibacy when, in the original context it really meant the opposite.
But Jesus has not mentioned that person with a celibate lifestyle is superior to others . Also read 1 Corinthians 9:5 . All apostles were married and it is not like TPM concept “celibacy is mandatory for ministry !”. We cannot control married people and group them as believers and consider them inferior to others. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ and Jesus is the head. So it is against scripture to control other believers. We cannot treat married people like slaves. It is abomination of His commands.Jesus has called all of us who want to follow HIM sincerely.
Matt 19.12 says if you can be a eunuch for the kingdom then be.Its nowhere a compulsion in The Bible.Nowhere in that chapter it says such eunuchs will get zion in those verses.It says clearly if your ead from the beginning that god wanted man and woman together.Equally if theres someone who wants to serve god they can live a life of no attachments and bring souls to kingdom of god.Which tpm clergy dont do.They just sit comfortably in the church and keep preaching to people who already k ow about jesus.They wont go and distribute tracts,they assign believers so that they dont get beaten up by the outside public.Very smart they are.Tpm tries to mix one two words from one chapter twist it and link to two words from another.Some puzzles in bible just click and we can relate two words.Its simple.But tpm tries to create a different shape just to fix the puzzle.You will also see the beginning pastors of cpm/tpm put off their wives and then came to this tpm ministry.Eg Pas Manoharan.They come to tpm for lust of zion or love failure or for a comfortable life.In certain cases its a zeal or some kind of trance which brings them here.
@ “They wont go and distribute tracts,they assign believers so that they dont get beaten up by the outside public.Very smart they are!!”
haha.. Center Pastors are more cunning in this matters. They send poor sisters to distribute their convention tracts.. In other matters when there is some controversy they will call believers and put them ahead to face heat and hide themselves under the carpet … cunning as serpent !!
I really needed to read an article like this.
My uncle told me that married people have to stay as brothers and sisters with each other, then only they will be caught up in the Second Coming of Christ. Even a tpm sister came to our house and told us that tpm believers should stay away from any physical contact with their spouses otherwise they will not enter New Jerusalem. Years back, when I read tpm’s book, “Zion, the Perfection of Beauty”, and at that time I thought the writings were true, especially page no.55, I had a kind of hatred for my parents for giving me birth.
And I have created many problems in my family and in my mind because of that book.
When my mother asked my uncle that why he was teaching all these things to me, my uncle replied,”It’s not for you, you will not understand”
Even I remember one tpm brother who stood up and said,”Marriage is bad, really really bad and worldly, that’s y I didn’t marry but joined tpm ministry”
That day I wanted to stand up and ask him during meeting time to prove from the Bible that Marriage is bad, bcz bible says it’s holy…
But at that tym I had no courage to stand and speak.
I thank God for this article and I am feeling really bad for creating problems in my family bcz of this doctrine of demons.
Your uncle was wrong but it wasnt his mistake the brainwash is as such.The tpm sister was brainwashed too.But then she was jealous every time she sees a happy christian family who is enjoying a holy matrimony God blessed and gave.So she decided to inject her venom and create bitterness in family life.This is very very common.If the tpm pastor or brother is the King cobra then the sisters are those little snakes.Lol.
These are hell of indoctrination… shocking!!!
“When we come to the consecrated full time ministry, we are redeemed from among men, i.e. we are freed from the responsibility to take care of our parents,….. – the Lord has paid for it and we are now free.”
Wonderful !!! Jesus died on cross to make these crazy zionists free from guilt of letting their parents die in old age!!! Lamb was slaughtered from foundation of world to let these wicked pharisees turn their eyes ears from their old parents die in desolation. And T U is teaching young TPM workers to not to worry about their conscience that pricks them about parents… He is saying we are freed!! See level of blindness and indoctrination… It is better to listen to hindu mythology story of sravana who carried his old age blind parents to pilgrimage, than T U thomas nonsense.
Again shocking to read another unbelievable indoctrination of most holy T U Thomas. “All the family members of truly consecrated servant of God will become spiritual. So even if your family members are not saved, you need not worry about it or pray for it”
This is indeed mystery unlocked by holy T U thomas ! you don’t need to worry or pray for your unsaved family members! They will become spiritual automatically just because these sisters made food, washed clothes, carried bible and served as waiter for lazy glutton pastors of TPM. T U must be really rewarded with highest place in TPM zion for such deeper mysteries , which only unmarried people can unlock.. which is far beyond imagination on married men!!
This means you go to TPM ministry and God will take unsaved family members straight in heaven. !! What a gospel of perfection was revealed to most beoved of TPM, and most holy T U Thomas!!!
Yes Family Breakers and Lazy wolves are they
They separate Husbands and Wives whom God had Joined.
They separate children from parents to be their slaves and leave the parents at the mercy of neighbours.
Forbid Marriage with the lure that they will be contracted to Zion
They eat without working and trick people to give 10% of their earnings to feed them.
They want people to come and work in their homes free of cost for some intangible “Blessings”
What horrible cult?
Matt23.4,Luk11.46 Jesus say about Pharisees.If you see tpm clergy they are absolutely similar to Pharisees.They want poor believers to iron their clothes,clean the church and put mats and chairs.Cook for the church,serve them i all possible ways imaginable.They wont visit the sick no accountability of money.No receipts for donation etc.I just wonder hpw they dont fall under the ambit of income tax etc without giving receipt and proofs.It a very simple math.The number of believer 10 pc income is a huge sum.I dont see them spending on anything.Ive seen FH with poor cleanliness.And they say believers are responsible if there are cobwebs in Faith Homes.I mean what are they talking about.They live there all their tenure.But believers who come after working all week need to do things at faith homes.And they allocate duties to believers.They dont have basic theology education and they say we are unlike others taught by Holy spirit and they quote disciple who didnt have education bla bla bla.But they dont read Luk2:46-52.Tge great teacher Jesus himself sat at the house of God and learnt.
There is a stronghold and an allure of this church on its members. The teachings of Zion and new Jerusalem and holiness and perfection were new to me and I wanted to learn more about it because I wanted to live for eternity with The Lord and live this life for The Lord.
Bro. Admin, what is the man child ? What is the real Zion and New Jerusalem in heaven? I am trying to study these on my own .. are there any truth to these doctrines or are they completely unbiblical?
//Bro. Admin, what is the man child ? What is the real Zion and New Jerusalem in heaven? I am trying to study these on my own .. are there any truth to these doctrines or are they completely Unbiblical?
Dear Brother, the TPM interpretation of Man Child just falls as a 2 dollar suitecase. It is a fiction of their imagination which they want people to believe. Sadly people believe it without any biblical basis. God willing I will explain my thoughts about this Rev 12 passage in an article. But please understand that these are visions which will get clearer to us as we proceed to the end times(Habakkuk 2:3,Daniel 12:9-10). We should never be dogmatic when it comes to symbolic passages of Revelation.Be ready to redraw your understanding.
The TPM Interpretation of Zion and New Jerusalem is also flawed. Ask any Jew and he will tell you that Zion and Jerusalem is the same entity. Zion is a Spiritual angle of the Political Entity which is Jerusalem. Just like every 3D picture also has a 2D picture, we will have to understand that when God says about Zion or New Jerusalem, its basically the same entity and its a matter of what is on focus. I will try to explain it in an article with appropriate analogies.
Who is a servant of GOD? Is the servant supposed to be Holy? Here is the deceitful manipulation most people, particularly new Christians don’t understand. We in India derive our understanding from the masses who have Yogis, Sanyasies, Rishies, etc.
Let us remember that Christ reprimanding one fellow saying, “Why do you call me good? The Father in Heaven alone is good”.
Two points to understand: One Jesus Christ did not wish to be called good! Two If He is serving or doing the will of GOD does not mean He is good!
But our SoGs are calling themselves Holy, Saints, Consecrated, etc. This is self certification which Christ did not approve.
Now to control and manipulate the masses the SoGs need to show that they are high and above the rest, such as wearing white, shaving off mustaches, chanting a certain phrases, not taking medicines, not wearing jewels, etc. Even that is not enough so they have to do something bigger to show that they are real Sanyasies. So they have adopted a very old trick originally devised in Greek religion namely celibacy, monk or nun-hood, monasteries, etc.
This was used very effectively by the Roman Catholics and of recent past (1925) by Raman Kutty Paul and Alwyn de Alwis promoted Ceylon Pentecostal Mission.
All these practices are not biblical and not approved of GOD. But many ignorant believers fall for it to such an extent that they become man pleasers and servants of SoGs.
The question of speaking in tongues is badly and poorly understood. A believer must understand that this kind of tongue speaking can be done by even evil possessed. Satan knows how to imitate and he teaches many to speak such strange utterances.
How do we know a certain person is filled with Holy Spirit. Answer is, “You will know them by their fruits”. When a person is filled with Holy Spirit he or she is a delivered person (2 Cor 3:17). The glory of GOD will shine on their faces and when they speak there will be convictions and deliverance.
So why there are so many mis-lead believers? It is because they are will fully not focusing on GOD but they are trusting on the SoGs to help them to reach heaven. Simply speaking they don’t read the Bible and ask GOD for understanding.
May GOD bless you dear reader and Admin
Last Sunday I had a heated argument with one of the hard nuts of TPM. During the argument I told him either you people will go to heaven or the rest of the people go to heaven. Both the categories cannot go there since their doctrines are diametrically opposite. Decide yourself who will go?
Couple of days later this article has been published. In this article it is written that //Either what TPM teaches is “apostolic” or what Paul taught is apostolic. Both can’t be right.// Then immediately I have realised that my argument was absolutely right when I got the confirmation through this article.
Praise the Lord.
Admin, you are doing a fabulous work. Please continue it. I think many blinded have started seeing the light through your work. Amen.
Dear Vig Gant,
We are missing you. Many people have realised the true nature of TPM through this site. Without any doubt unequivocally it is a CULT. Did you adopt another nomenclature to hide own identity like the nature of TPM frauds? What is your opinion on the death of the alleged killer of Pr Kanakaraj and about his funeral blessing by another fraud Selvapandian?
Franklin… I’m very much around and merely observing.
I choose not to engage any further in the debate because
1. It’s pointless. No one here is qualified to offer unbiased commentary as everyone has already taken an extreme position on one side or the other. That makes it very difficult to consider the validity of the other sides position.
2. The language used is not worthy of debate.
3. I have chosen to not trust the word of any man/woman, but rather read the word of God and seek divine understanding.
4. I tried to find a better fellowship and found that “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God”. So the road to the kingdom of heaven is a lonely one that each man must travel on his own.
5. Like a lot of social media this is filled with a lot of garbage name calling, trolling and self righteousness.
6. I gained nothing from my past engagements in the debate.
I will only hide behind one name. ?
Dear Vik Gant,
Thanks for your prompt response.
Brother, when we look at men / women you are absolutely right “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God”. In such a scenario why do this self bragging of righteousness? Why do they call each other “saints”? (Recently I had a friendly talk with Pr Jude of TPM. I asked what do you mean by “saints?” He said they they are perfected souls. Immediately I asked him “Pastor please don’t feel bad. Are you perfect?” Sincerely he said “No”. I told him if you are perfect others are also like you only. He has understood what I meant.)
You have adopted the best policy. Following the written words of bible in truth and spirit. Great. At the same time we have given the responsibility of bringing the blinded to light. That is evangelism. If everybody thought, now I know the truth, my position in eternity is secured, then only the 12 (-1) disciples and the people who directly heard from Jesus would have been Christians. Many have undergone lot of hardships, abuses, many became martyrs for the gospel.
Since you have realised the truth, I feel now it is you duty to proclaim this good news to all your near ones and dear ones bring them also out of this bondage.
May God bless you spiritually more abundantly.
What makes you think that I dont proclaim the good news to others?
I do in my own way.
One thing I have realised that most people go to churches primarily because of some insecurity in their life.
As social animals we are “programmed” to seek “fellowship” in society – professional, cultural and spiritual. Everybody has a group they belong to.
Leaving the group is hard, because it provides a sense of security and belonging.
(It doesnt matter to most people if that sense of security and belonging is on shaky foundations, because they are too weak to break out.)
Its important to pray for enlightenment – for self and for others.
I cannot convince someone by finding fault with them.
This has always been my issue with this site.
Differing on doctrine is not a crime.
But the way it is done definitely could be better.
This was not Jesus’ way – he led by example. He lived every word he spoke and was found sinless – the only man to be so.
If am right, apart from the pharisees, He did not accuse any of the sinners in the gospels, but rather forgave them and asked them to sin no more.
He could do that because he was sinless.
I know that I cannot be perfectly sinless, but I can try and I know God in all his majesty and magnitude will look kindly on my faith and my works and consider some of it as righteousness.
The only thing I can do is live a life that is exemplary to my family, my friends and those that know me.
Preaching does not get anyone anywhere in the long run.
I was and am still inspired by the lives led by some men and women of faith.
If they had faults in them that were/are hidden to me, thats not my problem.
It is for them to clear their conscience with God.
One of the downsides of social media is that we find it hard to judge the tone of a writer. It happens all the time. I sincerely hope you take the articles in the spirit that it was written.
Regarding doctrines, I agree with you to an extent. There are many doctrines that one can differ. But there are fundamental doctrines of Christianity that one cannot differ in. For example the doctrines surrounding the nature of God, virgin birth, resurrection, inerrancy of scripture, justification by faith etc. While TPM has not erred in most of them, they have gravely erred in the issue of salvation.
I hope you don’t take this the wrong way, but that error in the doctrine of salvation can be seen passed off in your comment as well. You said you hope God sees your faith AND your works and considers some of it as righteousness. That is not the biblical teaching. The book of Romans, Ephesians and Galatians is perfectly clear that the righteousness we have is not based on our works. The righteousness we have is Christ’s righteousness imputed to us. That is the ONLY way we can stand before a Holy God. Christ takes our sins and gives us HIS righteousness. 0% of that is from our works.
Of course, after being born again, we are to follow the example of Christ. The works that follow are the FRUITS of being justified and God’ spirit indwelling in us, it is NOT the CAUSE of our justification.
I agree that it is society which has assumed the place of god. Man gets created in the image and likeness of society he belongs. He speaks eats and drinks the philosophy brainwashed into his mind. We see tpm believers eating drinking speaking the language of tpm. They call others backsliders, for them saint means tpm ministers, and to come to truth means joining tpm and all such unbiblical language which has been engraved on their tongues. So your observation is spot on that it is very difficult to come out of cult of which man has been so many years part off!
But equally true is that many people do come out of cults – no matter whether it is from cult of Jehovah witness , mormon, bramhakumari or tpm or whatever.. And the reason is that someone has applied efforts to pull them out.. For example if you see your kid brainwashed to become suicide bomber will not you do everything in your power to pull him out ? Would you only keep praying for him and avoid discussing him just because it would produce meaningless exchange. What if you had 100 kids trapped in brainwashing of delhi’s burari case like mentality? I know that with many it would be nonsense exchange of words, but still you will be able to pull some kids out, if you applied efforts. And if you could save some, although not all , you would still feel satisfied that atleast you did to save few from fire!
Your reply to franklin appears more like you dont care about people following strange woman like ox goeth to slaughter.
The first thing I want to say to that is that I disagree with is that TPM has been labelled as a cult.
It’s easy to draw similarities and theorise.
(You don’t need to explain this as I have read the articles on this subject and yet I disagree)
The second is that not all TPM “believers” are as you described.
There is fanatical right wing extremist element within the congregation that takes a holier-than-thou approach – similar to the ones you find in other organizations.
I will not defend them and they are too brainwashed and insecure to change themselves.
The problem is that when it comes to debating you find yourself going up against this minority and unfortunately they become the poster boys (and girls) for TPM.
The vast majority of people I have met are merely simple in their outlook and do not look down on others as you described.
The third thing I would like to point out is that I believe that change has to come from within.
Standing outside, pointing fingers and finding fault is not going to serve any purpose.
Like any organization, it will defend its position.
It’s better to be in the system and effect change from within.
Consider this a healthy conversation and not as debate. Initially i thought to not continue this conversation back and forth, as we both are not interested in trolling. However reading your reasonings has intrigued me to try to understand your opinion more.
1) What according to you is cult. Is there any organisation, which you think as cult? Why you think that organization as cult ? What is the harm in being a cult ? I am looking forward to hear your views on the same.
2) Even i believe the same that there are sincere folks inside there. Nobody disagrees here on it. My problem with tpm is it’s doctrines, teachings and elitist mentality which is seed of all its teachings. It doesn’t matter whether person is simple or sinister. It is teachings of society (as i said earlier) that creates man in its image and likeness. Therefore if teachings are megalomaniac, then people who eat drink and live these ideologies will ultimately be made likewise. I have witnessed very simple gentles humble people in tpm, suddenly turn into elitist hypocrites when forced into situation that demands their active participation. The longer you stay within the more its atmosphere will take its toll upon you.
3) Lastly, whether you speak from within or without it, you must speak rather than keep quiet. There is no doubt that it would be more effective if someone stood from within, but if there is no body doing it from within, then in that case, we will have to continue our efforts from outside as long as we can. Jesus never became pharisee to bring people out zealous self righteousness. He attacked them from outside and few people like Nicodemus (i believe,) came out. Considering Paul , again we see that God although raised Paul in society of pharisees, yet he brought him out to make him stand against them, to pull people out. Take case of Martin Luther also. He also came out and then attacked Catholicism from outside, to pull people out. I don’t know of any person in bible or outside who stayed within a system to bring out any change. If you have few Christian examples of people who stayed within the system to bring change in it, it would be happy to learn the same from you.
I hope you are not imagining that some day one chief pastor would rise to change system. If that happens it will break the system into two halves. The other half will continue in its original form. It is not possible that all people will suddenly change. Your idea of changing system from within appears nobler on paper, but it is not practical.
If you wish not to reply publicly, you have my email (i believe).
Brother franklin, why so harsh comments and sarcasm? He has every right o remain anonymous as we all do. And me as a spectator here has observed valid arguments put out by vik gant , and sometimes he was also not right and we are all mere humans. And even I have noticed in this site some people who are extremists, use abusive languages and sarcastic comments and I also notice a sense of pride that they are out of tpm and people who speak pro-tpm are bashed. The comments section are open to speak both pro-tpm and anti-tpm and arrive at a conclusion I believe. Let us not create another cult like institution. This website has been such a blessing and life-changing experience for me, but some comments are painful especially when people target individuals
I never had any intention of targeting anybody. I sincerely appreciate all the comments, be it pro tpm or anti tpm. All can have their own opinions. It is not binding on others.
In anyway, if I was harsh to Br Vik Gant , I express my sincere apology. I am grateful to GOD for his present attitude.
Yes… years back there was a freak(SOG)who preached that marriage is bad and one can never please God if he is married because they are only bothered about pleasing their spouse and that always lands them up in trouble.. He used to be biased towards the male believers since they are the ones who give more money (in tithe) to the fake home and most of the married sisters were homemakers…on many occasions he even went to the extent of asking all the brothers to lift up their hands to agree with him that their own marital lives were troublesome and he used to laugh wickedly(totally being sadistic cos he never got to marry) and turn to the sister’s side and says in a sarcastic tone “you beautiful faces are responsible” . He has daringly used many vulgar phrase in the pulpit and has many times said that if you can’t control ur wife (i.e bend her to submission) you are not a man and that wives who don’t listen to their husbands are prostitutes. He says a wife shouldn’t even give her opinion on any decision regarding family matters or disagree on any matter with her husband…if she does she has the spirit of Eve in her and will make her Adam fall from grace. This kind of sermons are enough to create problems in a peaceful home where if the husband is born Tpm then he will totally agree as he has seen this right from his early years(from his grand parents and parents) and also appreciate the SOG for the eye opening sermon.
We MUST divide the scriptures on the basis of context, if we don’t do it that way, we can easily misinterpret the word of God. In order to understand Matt 19:12, we must meditate the subject in context which start from Matt 19:3. Actual context was Pharisees wanted to tempt Jesus about the subject of divorcement. We can clearly see from the word of God (Matt 19:4,5,6) what is the heart of God in regards to marriage and see how graciously Jesus explained the truth! However, look Verse 7, Pharisees did not want to accept the truth but they tried to twist the subject with the Law of Moses. So Jesus added couple more terms and conditions to the Law. After that you don’t see Pharisees asking anymore questions but you can see Jesus disciples bit worried and making this comment (verse 10) “If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.” In this context we should understand verse 11 & 12. It is all about marriage and divorcement! Nothing to do with celibacy and consecration! Those days I guess, Jews could divorce and remarry as they wish! But Jesus categorically explained, it is against the word of God and He does not permit divorcement “except it be for fornication”. So what I understand from this portion is, even if you have to live as a eunuch within your marriage for the kingdom of heaven’s sake, don’t consider divorcement and remarriage!
You will see every doctrine of TPM , either partial truth or taken from out of context! I am born and brought up in TPM and almost joined this false priesthood. God had mercy on me and open my eyes to see Jesus, The way, The Truth and The Life! I still attend TPM and try to expose this false religion.
May God bless you all.
Dear admin we need an other part(3) of the article…. Many people deceived by this doctrine… So kindly prove with the Bible verses.. So that the people’s minds might be enlightened with the truth of God…
Been also waiting from Admin to write about preaching of women in church. May not be in India much but in the western world, lot of cpm / tpm branches have women preach in bible studies, adult classes where adult men are present and even Sunday service main sermon often which the Bible clearly forbids.
This is a difficult subject. There are rules and exceptions. I would rather that we all let the Spirit of God lead us in the way he thinks appropriate.
The word for “preach, in the Greek New Testament is kerysso [khruvssw] which also means “Proclaim” or “Announce”.
Woman are not specifically forbidden to Preach as Mary Magdalene was specifically chosen to do the first preaching after the resurrection.
18 Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them that he had said these things to her. John 20:18
We can also see Priscilla teaching Apollos along with her husband.
26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately. Acts 18:28.
It is also assumed that Junia in Romans 16:7 was also a Lady who did outstanding work.
However, there are some restrictions placed for woman preachers under a specific context.
We think 1 Timothy 2:8-15 imposes two restrictions on the ministry of women: they are not to teach Christian doctrine to men and they are not to exercise authority directly over men in the church.
From what I understand these restrictions apply only in a setting where there are Spiritual Men in a fellowship gathering. Therefore it is a violation when TPM Sr Sisters preach to a congregation where there are spiritual men. I know TPM thinks, that people not in their clergy are not spiritual enough to minister. But they do not realize that it shows their own ministry in a bad light. If years of preaching and teaching does not yield any results of making men spiritual, they have failed in their motto of Col 1:28 as per their twist.
At the same time, I would not want to use the verse to restrict any spiritual move of God. God loves to use weaker vessels to show his power and strength. Let the Spirit of Lord Rule as per the situation.
Please forgive my irrelevant placeholder.
I was browsing this link and the church in description sounds like TPM ditto.
10 CHARACTERISTICS OF A NARCISSISTIC CHURCH
What do you think?
Yes, Brother, it sounds ditto. I guess this sounds ditto because the spirit behind such narcissistic tendencies is the same irrespective of the organization.
Dear Vik Gant,
I never meant that you are not doing anything. //One thing I have realised that most people go to churches primarily because of some insecurity in their life.// In principal I agree with you.
//I was and am still inspired by the lives led by some men and women of faith.
If they had faults in them that were/are hidden to me, thats not my problem.//
Bible is full of examples of people lived by faith. I think you have ambiguously used the word faith without mentioning whether it is men of faith or faith homes.
Don’t forget the saying, all that glitters are not gold. You may be very well aware that last week kottarakkara central mother Thankamma entered into glory. (Another humongously wrong expression. The only person entered into glory through death is none other than Jesus).
You may be knowing that she was a regular prophetess in the church. do you know her real story. She used to keep all the groceries under her bed right from salt to rice. Small sister used to beg for grocery items. She was in close relationship with another Fraud Sabu who is pastoring in one of the faith homes in kottarakkara centre. I don’t want to say more about her. This Sabu and Kottayam Mini and this Thankammma were in the same faith home.
I know many people who have left tpm ministry even after became pastors. You can get my details from admin and contact me. I will tell you the full details. How can I ignore all these filthiness happening inside when these frauds are masquerading as angels of light.
I don’t have any intention of instigating you. Please understand.
You said: “Bible is full of examples of people lived by faith. I think you have ambiguously used the word faith without mentioning whether it is men of faith or faith homes.”
In my books, men and women of faith are not exclusively residing in TPM faith homes.
They are all around us – living by the grace they have received through their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and his gospel.
I do not believe that anyone needs to be designated a priest, pastor or bishop in order to be called a man/woman of faith.
You said “Kottarakkara central mother Thankamma entered into glory. (Another humongously wrong expression. The only person entered into glory through death is none other than Jesus).
You may be knowing that she was a regular prophetess in the church. do you know her real story. She used to keep all the groceries under her bed right from salt to rice. Small sister used to beg for grocery items. She was in close relationship with another Fraud Sabu who is pastoring in one of the faith homes in kottarakkara centre. I don’t want to say more about her. This Sabu and Kottayam Mini and this Thankammma were in the same faith home.”
I choose not to pay too much heed to such stories, even if it comes from an eye witness.
My life is not going to get any better because of such matters and by knowing this, the human in me will only fall in grace by having negative thoughts about the persons in the story.
The ultimate judge of all this is God and I leave it in his hands to judge.
Whether the punishment for sin is handed out on this earth or after death, it is for God to decide.
You said “I know many people who have left tpm ministry even after became pastors. You can get my details from admin and contact me. I will tell you the full details. How can I ignore all these filthiness happening inside when these frauds are masquerading as angels of light.
To this I say that I can match every story and detail you give me with another one that I have heard or seen.
I have looked around for a better fellowship, asked God to lead me to it and will wait for his time and plan for me.
In the meantime, as the admin has been exhorting us, I will continue to test the sermons of TPM against the word of God and look for the Biblical support for everything that is taught.
What I do not find supported in the word of God, I will discard, unless I otherwise revealed to me.
The rest I will try and adapt in my life and hope that I will find a place in the Lord’s eternal kingdom.
The one good thing that has come out of sites like this is that it has exposed die hard fanatics for what they are and encouraged people to read the word of God and test everything against what the Lord and his disciples taught.
Here is link that I found which may be helpful.
Disclaimer : I don’t endorse the preacher or the channel but found this video very useful.
Don’t consider that I am targeting you. You said you don’t want to look at negative stories (even from eye witness). You also said you consider men around as men of faith (whoever they may be!). So you seem to judge good about someone by good which you see in them. You judge them as men of faith. But then when you hear some stories about someone you refuse to judge it as evil. You call someone good but you refuse to call someone bad. This mentality will harm you. Why? Because in this manner you will only come to conclusion that there are some men who are heroes.
However bible has none. There is flaw mentioned in every character in bible.
Ecc 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
I am not saying that we must condemn anyone. God knows truth. But negative of people is made to come before our eyes, – not to condemn them but to believe bible that “there is not a just man upon earth that doeth good and sinneth not (Ecc 7:20)”
This truth in scriptures makes us look to imputed righteousness of Jesus; because we know we are not perfectly good and bible tells no one is perfectly holy. The only hope then to satisfy the perfect requirement demanded by God is to get clothed in righteousness imputed to us by faith. If God save us we are saved if he decides to condemn us we are doomed.
But if you believe that there are people around you, whose goodness will be considered by God, then you will never feel need of righteousness which comes to us without having done any works, but is given by faith alone.
In this way you will die like all others die, hoping to find mercy in eyes of God on judgement day, by believing in your good works as something which God will consider as base to show mercy on you. And ultimately you’ll end up refusing to righteousness which comes by faith.
Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Bible tells negative character of its heroes, to not to blame them but to make us realize we are not different from them. Read below
Luk 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
Luk 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
You are putting words in my mouth and suggesting things that I never said.
1. I said that there are men of faith all around us.
It is not for me to decide who is a man of faith and who is not.
But it is for me, by the grace of God, to decide who I should have fellowship with. Is that fair?
2. I said I choose not to pay much heed to stories (even from eyewitnesses).
One reason is because it pollutes my mind and then in my human weakness I start judging the storyteller and the subjects of the stories.
This is not for me to do.
3. I neither judge people as good nor as bad.
I make up my own mind about who I have fellowship with.
As the Psalmist said, and I paraphrase, its better to not be in the fellowship of the ungodly.
You quoted Ecclesiastes 7:20 and for this very reason, we must not label anybody as “good” or “bad”.
I do not wish to debate with you as you make assumptions from my statements – which is not right.
One thing I will leave with you is a thought that crossed my mind – “Are God’s decision making criteria limited to that which man interprets from the Bible? Or is God big enough to be able to decide for himself which men/women are worthy of His kingdom?”
Think about it. No need to reply.
well written… God is definitely bigger than all human assumptions, imaginations and interpretations
Dear Vik Gant,
You said “I choose not to pay too much heed to such stories, even if it comes from an eye witness.
My life is not going to get any better because of such matters and by knowing this, the human in me will only fall in grace by having negative thoughts about the persons in the story. The ultimate judge of all this is God and I leave it in his hands to judge. Whether the punishment for sin is handed out on this earth or after death, it is for God to decide.”
But that doesn’t mean we should close your our eyes for what is happening around us.
1 Cori.4:4 : My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.
I have seen always the TPM people try to escape by putting the blame on GOD. When GOD judges someone, he knows in and out of him. Here Paul very clearly says our ignorance (or pretended ignorance) won’t be treated as righteousness. It is our duty to see and judge what is happening around us. The flesh of a pork growing in the mud will have the smell and taste of the mud whereas one from the pork farm will be without any foul odour and taste. Both are pork, but the circumstances and the situation makes one is good and the other bad.
Try to be a Berean. Fruits depends on the tree. It is our duty to be good fruit yielding tree.
I am extreamely happy for your present attitude. May GOD bless you abundantly with all the treasures of heaven.
Richard Patricks – I am not going to debate with you about whether we are imputed righteousness through faith, works or both.
However, I do believe that faith that is not reflected in deeds is wasted.
You may disagree, but I believe that the one of the apostles does bring up the matter of faith without works being dead.
At the end of the day, my prayer is that I have sufficient faith and that faith is also displayed in my words and deeds.
I also pray that when it comes to judgement, the good Lord will consider the few good things that I may have done in my life.
Dear brother there is a question in my which is making me feel guilty. Is it right to kneel before the pastor ,brother or sister when we go to them for prayer because as a TPM child I hv been made to do this for nearly 3 decades ( thank God I didn’t do it for the next few years because I am out of it).this question striked me when I saw our marriage photo where me n my husband are kneeling before them and I felt it was something wrong.please explain if IAM right or wrong.
You are right in your understanding that you did a wrong thing. There is no reason to kneel down before any man. We all are created in God’s image and therefore one Image need not go down before another image. We are expected to kneel before God. And if you are kneeling before God, it is expected that the Pastor also kneels there along with you. He has no right to stand in the place posing himself as equal to God. Just make sure that you do not repeat this next time there is a similar situation.
This remark is enlightening “And if you are kneeling before God it is expected that the Pastor also kneels there along with you.” Needs serious thinking on this.
If the pastor kneels alongside you, then it’s a reflection of his inner character.
I actually saw this once in a TPM pastor, with my own eyes.
Not many like that these days.
If you don’t kneel and he asks you to, then that too is a reflection of who he is.
However, kneeling as an act of humility in the presence of God should surely count for something, regardless of whether there’s a pastor standing in front of you.
As long as you know in your heart why you are kneeling.
While our culture teaches us certain respectful gestures, I believe the Bible says somewhere in the new testament that we must not respect any man, but that all glory and honor should be to God alone.
(Not sure exactly where that is written.)
It is an interesting thought, though.
Vik Gant-Even Shadrach meshach and Abenego could have thought that oh Im kneeling in presence of god and hes omni present why not kneel and bow?They didnt.Why would you be so supportive of tpm still?I find it funny.
Christians can only bow or kneel for Jesus Christ. The New Testament places enormous weight on the act of kneeling. It’s written of the only Master (Jesus) that, “God …gave him the name that is above every name that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow in Heaven and on earth and under the earth “ Philippians 2:9-10
It is mischievous to have boastful pastors who revel at the thought of thousands of people kneeling before them. That is a typical way of Hindu/Buddhist/Jain godmen trying to show their superiority. Stay away from such mischief makers and clearly let them know why you are not going to kneel before such men.
Come, let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the LORD our Maker; Psalm 95:6
Vik – a very small group or minority of good people might be there but are timid to whip the people trying to defame God.They wont even try to ask scriptural questions for unscriptural works of tpn.You my friend appear to be from that minority.God made man in his own image.But tpm preaches about God similar to their Image.The God in their mind is a partial God with a multitiered kingdom with special place for pastors and seperate for believers etc.But reality is its their cheap mindset because they give themselves or demand special seats,plates etc.Outside tpm no one would even entertain this bunch of jobless frauds.You participate as audience to the circus they conduct in the name of worship.
A system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object.Oxford meaning of cult.
Is tpm a cult?Yes it is.Why?The object of worship is tpm clergy.
They say tpm is the best because clergy dont marry.They say tpm is best because only they give tithe to their jobless clergy.They say tpm is best because the clergy wear only white.They say tpm is best because only tpm clergy wake up to do 4 o clock praisin (sleep talking).Tpm is best because clergy will go to zion.Its all about clergy.Believers are slaves of clergy in every way imaginable.