Defining the Church of God – 2

Without controversy, the most controversial subject in the Bible is “the church.” This is what most of the fussing is about both between “us” and the denominationalists, and between us and us. In one way or another everybody argues over the Church; not Christ, but the Church. But the longer I linger around Church-anity the more I come to realize that much of this controversy is based on incorrect or unclear concepts.

There was an instance when one of them accused the Admin of fiddling with the Holy Bible and what not. But I do not think I can reply to all those and it is part of a process of breaking the chains of Religion.

I think one Brother/Sister named “I love Jesus” summed it up in a concise way.

I felt there is a slight “out of sync” between you and readers ( some of us ) in taking the definition of the word CHURCH. When you said the word CHURCH, you meant the CHURCH = Body of Christ / Bride of Christ only. ( Correct me if I am wrong ) .
But in common since the word CHURCH refers to Christian Worship place also ( i mentioned in earlier comment. Church is a common term for Christian worship place, Temple for that of Hindus, Mosque for that of Islams .. and so on ) , i think at least some of us who commented felt that the banner of the article “DONT GO TO CHURCH ” sends out a wrong message, when also thought in-terms of common naming conventions mentioned above. As I said earlier there are many buildings ( worship places: be it fellowships/gatherings or anything else ) with a word CHURCH in its NAME given to that ( very common in India at least ).

Some Translation History

Defining the Church of God - 2Throughout your Bible, wherever you find the word CHURCH is mentioned, it is Ekklesia in Greek. Now, let’s look at the word, “ekklesia”. This Greek word appears in the New Testament approximately 115 times. That’s just in this one grammatical form. It appears also in other forms. And in every instance, except three, it is wrongly translated as “church” in the King James Version. Those three exceptions are found in Acts 19:32, 39, 41. In these instances, the translators rendered it assembly instead of church.” But, the Greek word is exactly the same as the other 112 entries where it was changed to “church” wrongly.

Have you ever wondered how Ekklesia, which means a called out congregation or assembly, came to be translated as church?

Answer: a King gave an edict. That King was King James.

You see, there already was a Greek word that meant church in Greek. That word was kuriakosthe lord’s house (or a meeting place for a religious group, including pagans). Only the word kuriakos isn’t anywhere in the Greek New Testament manuscripts. But that didn’t matter to King James.

In 1604, the King gave 15 edicts for his translators to follow. Edict number 3 forbade translating ekklesia as congregation (except in specific places like Acts 19:32, where it wasn’t referring to followers of the Messiah). All previous Greek to English translations—Tyndale 1524, Coverdale 1535, Matthew Bible 1537, and the Great Bible 1539—had correctly translated ekklesia as congregation or assembly.

Before the 1611 KJV, the only English Bible to ever translate ekklesia as church was not from the Greek, but from a Latin to English translation from the Catholic Church’s Latin Vulgate done by John Wycliffe in 1382.

What Was The King’s Motive?

Power! What Else? Many historians claim it was political power that caused King James to issue edict number 3, for as England’s Sovereign, King James headed the Church of England.

Beware Of Translator Bias 

As a general rule, we should always beware of translator bias. For instance, the Greek word ep-ee-stref, Strong’s G1994, which means to revert, return, or turn about. This word is constantly translated in one form or another of returning, in all but a few strategic passages in the KJV. In those passages, the translators chose instead to translate the word as converted, a word which means to “change in form, character or function.” Why? To perpetrate their agenda of proving Jesus came to start a NEW RELIGION. But do not take my word for it. Download e-Sword look these passages up for yourself. The impact will be much greater. I will list some–not all–of the verses that correctly translate this Greek word in some form or another of “returning”, then I will give you the few strategic places the KJV where the same word is purposely rendered converted.

Ep-ee-stref As Return  

Ep-ee-stref Mistranslated as Converted

Mat 13:15  For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted…

This same passages can be found in John 12:40, in Mark 4:12, and again in Acts 28:27, and each time it is translated as converted, when it should say, “…lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and RETURN.”

Another strategic place this purposeful poor translation has occurred is in Acts 3:19 “Repent ye therefore, and be CONVERTED, that your sins may be blotted out…” It should read: “Repent ye therefore and RETURN that your sins may be blotted out…”

Why do I appreciate Indian Translators?

Our Indian Translators did not have to contend with the Edicts of Kings. I suppose most of the readers of this site has an Indian background. Therefore, it is my privilege to take a shorter route to make you understand.

I know a few Indian Languages but I would like to explain it using Malayalam.  Do you know why the Malayalam translators used the Word Sabha(സഭ)  instead of the word പള്ളി  when they translated Ekklesia? Do you think they were fools?

They knew the difference between both these terms. In the First Term ((സഭ) , the People as a whole is the Important Subject. But in the Second Term (പള്ളി) , the Building is the Subject. You ask any Malayalee and he will tell that. The second term has a religious connotation. But the First Term can be used for any purpose and will be taken according to the context.

Have you heard of Legislative Assembly (നിയമസഭ)?  Hindu MahaSABHA ?  Clearly, it’s all about Assembly or the Congregation.

So When you Assemble, its a Verb. When you Congregate, its a Verb. Whereas the Second Term പള്ളി  (Religious Building) is a NOUN.

As പള്ളി  (Religious Building) is a NOUN, you obviously  പള്ളിയിലേക്ക് പോകൂ or GO TO CHURCH.

With the above understanding read Hebrew 10:25 (24 in Malayalam)

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

ചിലർ ചെയ്യുന്നതുപോലെ നമ്മുടെ സഭായോഗങ്ങളെ ഉപേക്ഷിക്കാതെ തമ്മിൽ പ്രബോധിപ്പിച്ചുകൊണ്ടു സ്നേഹത്തിന്നും സൽപ്രവൃത്തികൾക്കും ഉത്സാഹം വർദ്ധിപ്പിപ്പാൻ അന്യോന്യം സൂക്ഷിച്ചുകൊൾക. നാൾ സമീപിക്കുന്നു എന്നു കാണുംതോറും അതു അധികമധികമായി ചെയ്യേണ്ടതാകുന്നു. 

Clearly, the above texts are speaking about assembling/Congregating of the PEOPLE and the Place is not at all the focus.

Church Fellowships  – we have gone too far

The Early Church Fathers of the Pentecostal and Brethren Mission Movements in India clearly understood this. Therefore they never bothered about a Church Building. They had House Churches which when later got expanded, and then their progeny chose the carnal nature of Controlling ALL people by the Clergy/Laity System. They did not like to split into smaller units for the House Church model to Continue.

This was the same model in the early Ekklesia. Purpose-built places for worship did not come into existence until about the fourth century. The early Christians met in their homes or rented suitable facilities. “He [Paul] took the disciples with him and had discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus. This went on for two years, so that all the Jews and Greeks who lived in the province of Asia heard the word of the Lord.” (Acts 19:9-10) And Paul, sending his greetings to Aquila and Priscilla in Rome, states “Greet also the church that meets at their house.” (Romans 16:5).

The practice of the early church was to gather on the first day of the week. (Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:1-2) When the church assembled, they partook of the Lord’s Supper (1 Corinthians 11:17-33) and collectively worshipped the Lord. Their gatherings provided an opportunity for the believers to receive instruction in the apostles'(Not False Apostles’) teaching (Acts 2:42) and to bless the congregation by the spiritual gifts they had been given for the edification of the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12:24-26, 14:26; Romans 12:4-5)


Do you know how does God consider the Ekklesia? Each one of us is considered as his Family member.

Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, Eph 2:19

If you profess to follow Christ, then it’s time you quit voluntarily feeding the anti-Christ beast. Men who want to sincerely follow Christ must wean themselves from worldly governments and churches. It is the height of absurdity for a Christian to attend and support the very institutions which are destroying his relationship with God. Those who voluntarily support man-made religious church systems, by believing and teaching that they are good in any way, or that they help us, or that we need them, are still living in a dream world of deception. The ekklesia system, with it’s Theocratic government and individual responsibility, is capable of freeing us from the bondage of religion. True peace and liberty cannot be found outside of Christ. Christ’s system is the ecclesia system. Freedom awaits all those who will break away from the religious slavery of church and become a humble bondslave of Jesus Christ. We must stop idolizing men in their religious hypocrisy and let Christ once and for all be our King!

So, there is really no other choice for those who would truly follow the pattern laid down for us in God’s Word. We must do the same thing the apostles did. We must form ourselves into actual communities under the guidance of God’s anointed and appointed leaders, called out and separated from the world, with none other than Jesus Christ as our ruler and King. In other words, EKKLESIA!

As a whole, Christians have departed from the pattern laid down in the book of Acts and have built, according to their own wisdom, an artificial, phony, putrifying religious mess called “church”. It’s time to REVOLT against the wisdom of our religious flesh and get back to the wisdom of God. It’s time to re-evaluate and re-examine everything about how you think the true followers of Jesus should live. It’s time for REVOLUTION against DEAD RELIGION! We are determined to change the way the world thinks about how true followers of Jesus should live.



83 Comments on “Defining the Church of God – 2”

  1. Pick and translate one word into greek and bring about a whole doctrine.Oh you have no more to write about tpm so started fiddling with doctrines again.Learn Greek and Aramaic maybe that should be the right thing to do.


    1. In Case you did not know, Admin is a student of Greek and Hebrew as well. I mean Formally. But it does not make sense for me to flash those things before you guys.


      1. Oh thats good.So now admin speaks old greek and aramaic in its root fprm and absolutely understands old language context sitting in 21st century cuz he has a neo hebrew and greek application in the device.Wow.


        1. Did you note that I used the word Formal? It means I go to Proper Classes under eminent Scholars. I don’t ever remember having mentioned an App. So what exactly is your Problem Brother? If you think I am wrong, I agree to disagree with you. But You points hold no water with me…


  2. Nee onnum palli povanda enna.Veetil irunn ineem 100 sabha ondaaki kristyaanigalde per nashipikk.Ororuthan ernagum avande okke translation kond.Tpm ine kuttam paranj vere oru thala tericha sabha thodangaan.Onn po appa.


    1. I couldn’t keep from commenting. If you have so much of a problem with the admin and his blog, why do you bother to come here and comment! Onnu poyi kude?! Poyi vere pani nokku, Saare!
      First, you don’t understand the context of this article or the previous one and simply come here and dish out your frustrations on how TPM folks are getting enlightened by the articles out here.
      Second, you just keep blabbering the same thing over and over again.
      What is your problem old believer? By the way, what believer are you? TPM-believer or Christ-believer, dear Old Believer?
      …but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:2 KJV

      May God help you and bless you.


      1. Eda santosh nee aadyam admin de maatram kekkaathe poi greek translation eduth vaayikk.Admin is partially right on THIS TOPIC BUT NOT COMPLETELY which he wont admit.Things arent as black and white as it is portrayed in some websites and youtube videos.Especially when you are dealing with theopolitical history and old languages.You will understand by reading by comparing greek vs english.The word ekklesia isnt a christian term.


        Original: ἐκκλησία

        Transliteration: ekklēsia

        Phonetic: ek-klay-see’-ah

        Thayer Definition:

        a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
        an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
        the assembly of the Israelites
        any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
        in a Christian sense
        an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
        a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order’s sake
        those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
        the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
        the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven
        Origin: from a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564

        TDNT entry: 11:21,4

        Part(s) of speech: Noun Feminine

        Strong’s Definition: From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): – assembly, church.

        This is from the same mysword that admin uses.

        How clear then is the term ekklesia?Church a word for whatever reason it might have been ultimately replace ekklesia…in my opinion for the greater good.


        1. Brother,
          Please don’t use words like “Eda” etc. That is below acceptable limits. And Please do not argue and justify that word.

          Now coming to the topic. What is that Partial in which Admin is not correct and he is not accepting? Clearly, the STRONGS prove the point. No Building Sir. 🙂

          //Church a word for whatever reason it might have been ultimately replace ekklesia…in my opinion for the greater good.//

          Did I mention in the article that the Word CHURCH is not the translation of Ekklesia?
          Do you know why Tyndale was Martyred?
          In case you don’t know, just pick up one of those History books and you will know that people who Killed Tyndale did so because he would not compromise on changing the Bible. He would not replace Congregation with CHURCH. That is the price paid by Tyndale. Admin is just telling you a part of the History in which a Man of God was Killed for not falling in Line with the Rulers of those days. And Now I see that you are supporting the Edict 3 of King James without any justifiable reasons. Why So?

          Do you know KJV is guilty of scripture corruption at many places where it meant to be critical.
          For eg. Baptiso was translated as Baptism(a new made up word) when you could have translated as IMMERSION without any dilution.
          Then there is the word Pascha. Twenty-eight times in the New Testament it was translated correctly as Passover. So why did KJV translate it Easter in the book of Acts? (Acts 12:4)
          There are many more such things in KJV

          My point is beware! Beware of hidden translator-agendas! Beware of biased word choices. Take note especially of words like “wicked” and “iniquity.” Take time to look up keywords both in the Hebrew and in the Greek, lest you too “be led astray by the error of the lawless!”


        2. If King James wanted to replace ekklesia with church for power then he rather would have kept the wprs ekklesi.Because that would help him exercis power on any gathering whatsoever.Because he uswd church,his power ultimately was limited to the church.Would he be so foolish?
          The word rule is proestotes in 1Tim 5:17 and elders is presbuteroi in greek.

          Which translates as.

          Original: πρεσβύτερος

          Transliteration: presbuteros

          Phonetic: pres-boo’-ter-os

          Thayer Definition:

          elder, of age
          the elder of two people
          advanced in life, an elder, a senior
          a term of rank or office
          among the Jews
          members of the great council or Sanhedrin (because in early times the rulers of the people, judges, etc., were selected from elderly men)
          of those who in separate cities managed public affairs and administered justice
          among the Christians, those who presided over the assemblies (or churches) The NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters interchangeably
          the twenty four members of the heavenly Sanhedrin or court seated on thrones around the throne of God
          Origin: comparative of presbus (elderly)

          TDNT entry: 16:51,9

          Part(s) of speech: Adjective

          Strong’s Definition: Comparative of πρέσβυς presbus (elderly); older ; as noun, a senior ; specifically an Israelite Sanhedrist (also figuratively, member of the celestial council) or Christian ” presbyter” : – elder (-est), old.


          Original: προΐ́στημι

          Transliteration: proistēmi

          Phonetic: pro-is’-tay-mee

          Thayer Definition:

          to set or place before
          to set over
          to be over, to superintend, preside over
          to be a protector or guardian
          to give aid
          to care for, give attention to
          profess honest occupations
          Origin: from G4253 and G2476

          TDNT entry: 6:700,*

          Part(s) of speech: Verb

          Strong’s Definition: From G4253 and G2476; to stand before, that is, (in rank) to preside, or (by implication) to practise: – maintain, be over, rule.

          So its not as spot on as admin shows here.Just to prove his point blaming bible versions and churches is ridiculous.

          As admin says not to have denominations is another baseless argument.Early church fathers had no need for denominations because they had proper apostles and leaders named.Any one else with a different doctrine was a heretic.For eg. Gnostics.
          It was the beginning of Christianity a relatively new religion.Today its evolved 1000s of years.People have bought their interpretation made an ideology and due to disagreements with others opininon made different denominations.Any living thing has a biological name.The reason is to identify it.Any tree can be identified by its name and its fruits.Similarly any denomination can be identified by its name and actions to identify its ideology.The home church concept is dominant in Gulf where open worship isnt as easy as the western world even today.Just saying.


        3. See Brother,
          Well, why don’t you see the point. He was already the Head of the Church of England. If people start following the Bible and start Congregations all over without even his knowledge what happens to his huge dead monuments (The Churches)?
          He obviously wanted to show himself to be a benevolent leader and therefore he taking control of all congregation will be like the Gestapo. And naturally, it is stupid for such a great king to do that. He knows History will never forgive him. AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

          If you want to justify any of the Clergy System, it’s up to you. But You have not yet provided the reasoning for Corrupting Ekklesia and replacing it with Kuriakos (Church). No explanation for Edict 3 Yet with reasons which is acceptable.


        4. @Ob
          //As admin says not to have denominations is another baseless argument.Early church fathers had no need for denominations because they had proper apostles and leaders named//

          I think otherwise. It does have a base in scriptures. Bible condemns denomination. Read I Corinthians 1-3. On the other hand you are presenting logical excuse for your unbiblical stance.

          1Corinthians 1
          12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
          13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

          I Corinthians 3
          3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
          4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

          Old B, You seem to be cleverly trying to deceive people by your unbiblical “Church as building ” stance, “Authority in church” using Peters keys and now denominational ideologies.


      2. The reason i commented on this article is because.Its totally misleading.The admin clarified only in comments.I.e incomplete information.I being an ardent supporter of this site being silent on something i find extremely heretic would be the worst thing I do.Because I will be a silent supporter to it.There have been few doctrinal issues written in this website which i stayed silent on.If you want silence and claps for everything written here.Sorry I wont.Maybe i can back off and stay silent on everything then.
        I reiterate my stance.This website is an eyeopener and an extremely powerful platform.IF YOU PUT UP A DOCTRINAL ARTICLE KEEP IT COMPLETE AND VOID OF ANY DOUBTS OR REFRAIN FROM POSTING.
        If admin doesnt start a group somebody else will on the basis of his writings here.


        1. Brother,
          I would request you and the rest one thing. If the article has parts like 1,2,3 etc, Please allow the points to be clarified rather than go full blast with the debate. Things like Fellowship Worship etc was supposed to be introduced in the later parts. Anyway, I think you will understand my limitation of not able to put all in one.


        2. Nath-You are wrong nath.Sorry but you twisted the verse out of context again.You can read in greek if you want.Read the full chapter man.1 cor chapters 1,2,3 and stict to context.There were divisions in the church not denominations.So please stop twisting the word of God .Do you know what division was there?If not I will enlighten you.The divisions were on the basis of baptisms received.People were boasting by whom they were baptized.


        3. They were also divide because in the same church of Corinth there was groupism.As apollos was a jewish preacher, cephas was jesus disciple etc.So for that reason we see that He spoke to them.1 Corinthians has been written also to church at corinth,sanctified Christ followers who are saints and Christians every where.
          So he specifically in one line says,church at corinth,saints and worldwide xians.What does that mean there are three groups.Not one but three that he addresses one is ecclesia/church at corinth.Then saints then worldwide christians fellowship.
          Luke19:46 Jesus calls temple that it is his house and aa house of prayer
          47-He taught daily in temple.
          Did you read daily????
          Why not daily on the mountain if temple wasnt important for Jesus and it meant his body?
          Now in Acts18:4 paul went to synagogue every sabbath.Tell me wise man Nath.Why do you think you and admin are wiser than jesus and apostles.


        4. OB –
          You said “There were divisions in the church not denominations.” Are you saying denomination does not mean division of body of Christ As far as I understand denomination in Christendom means DIVISION among Christians based on their belief system (divisions based on their doctrines.) You said “Admin says not to have denomination.” Are you saying “there should be denominations (division) in body of Christ?”

          Read John 17:21 Jesus says
          That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. The way world will know God’s people is by their unity and not division. Jesus does not want division in his body. In Matthew Jesus says that he that scattereth (divideth) is not with me but against me. Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.


        5. @ OB
          // @ Luke19:46 Jesus calls temple that it is his house and a house of prayer
          47-He taught daily in temple.
          Why not daily on the mountain if temple wasnt important for Jesus and it meant his body?

          Brother you are reading without understanding. Jesus in Luke 19:46-47 is quoting Old Testament verse. In Old testament times the temple made by Solomon, rebuilt by Herod was called as “House of God — My house in Luke 19:46” it was cleared in Old testament times that God does not dwell in houses made with human hands. God only called building made with human hands as house of God, because it denoted body of Christ. It was symbol pointing to our bodies which is house of God. Paul says “1Co 3:16  Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 
          1Co 3:17  If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.”

          Therefore building made up of bricks was only shadow of real house of God. It pointed to desire of God to dwell with us and in us. What Christians are doing by associating building with house of God or a place where you meet God is that they are bringing us back into Old testament.

          What admin is trying to do is that he is trying to break that old mentality which says you can only worship God in specific buildings called as church. What he is trying to say in that you can worship anyhwere. Dont make buildings. even if you make dont associate it as house of God. Gather together, have fellowship, pray, worship but stop thinking in wrong way that we need to go to specific building to worship God. There fore he said “don’t go to church but be church.” It means we should focus on ourselves being a church or body of Christ or dwelling place of God, rather than a building made of bricks as meeting point of God and man.

          Jesus and apsotles did not go to temple to meet God. God was with them and in them. They went their to evangelise.


        6. @ OB
          there is not a single verse in New Testament where Apostles or Jesus made a building of bricks and mortar and dedicated it as temple or a place where people should come to meet and worship God. Not a single one. Rather there are verse in bible where Jesus said “Not a stone will be left upon” _ So Jesus is speaking about annihilation of building made up with hands.

          So many times it is repeated in Old Testament times that OLD CONCEPT of Temple amd SACRIFICE was merely a shadow pointing to original one.

          For example read
          Psa 50:12  If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof. 
          Psa 50:13  Will I eat the flesh of bulls, or drink the blood of goats? 

          Even in I kings 8:27 during time of dedication of first temple Solomon says
          1Ki 8:27  But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

          In Jeremiah during destruction of first temple it was said,
          Jer 7:4  Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, are these. 

          What you people are blaming admin or heresy or me as heretic, was repeated on Jesus himself. Just because Jesus abolished on criticised their EARTHLY BUILDING A TEMPLE AS MOST HOLY PLACE CONCEPT they crucified him. Read Matthew 26:60-62

          Mat 26:60  But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, 
          Mat 26:61  And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days. 
          Mat 26:62  And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee? 

          Teachings of Jesus against temple was used to blame him as heretic and crucify him.

          This thing was repeated with Stephen.
          Act 7:47  But Solomon built him an house. 
          Act 7:48  Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 
          Act 7:49  Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 
          Act 7:50  Hath not my hand made all these things? 

          Act 7:54  When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

          So dear OB, if you are gnashing your teeth against admin then it is not something new. One day or other people who speak the truth will have to face gnashing of teeth of religious men (devoid of righteousness).


        7. Nath-John 17:21.The oneness there is unity of Father,Jesus and every one who believes in the word and specificall the 12 disciples .Read whole chapter especially verse 12 where he mentions them except son of perdition.So the chapter talks about 12 disciples united in Jesus and Father.Thats the unity.Not something like you have said.
          According to 1 cor chapter 1 to which you used to talk about denominations.In that very context I explained its divisons aka groupism and not denominations like tpm,rc,ipc,jacobite etc. Thats being spoken over there.What I mean to say is denominations may have formed with good intentions.But there is a fallout or fals doctrination.For eg-Even Iscariot broke away from the main group.Many heretics came up in early church period.The will of God ultimately is unity through his sacrifice,unity through baptism,unity through his word (truth) and unity through breaking bread.
          Matt 12:30 again you are isolating verses and getting confused and causing confusion.Matt 12:30 is a continuatipn of the stream of thought in Matt 12:25.Jesus says that as a response when Pharisees said he cast devils by Beelzebub.So Jesus explains if devil is against devil they cannot stand.Moving forward he says I do that through spirit of God and because they said so they wont be forgiven.Continuing about that he says Similarly those who dont stand with Jesus will be scattered.That means divided.Beelzebub is prince of devil and he stand with his devils.Its kind of a comparison if you ask me. It also shows Jesus a s a shepherd and those who dont follow him will be scattered.Now please no more miainterpretations.


        8. In-fact even Jeremiah in Old Testament faced fury of religious Jews because he spoke of annihilation of the temple building

          Jer 26:8  Now it came to pass, when Jeremiah had made an end of speaking all that the LORD had commanded him to speak unto all the people, that the priests and the prophets and all the people took him, saying, Thou shalt surely die.  
          Jer 26:9  Why hast thou prophesied in the name of the LORD, saying, This house shall be like Shiloh, and this city shall be desolate without an inhabitant? And all the people were gathered against Jeremiah in the house of the LORD. 

          No wonder the same spirit would rise up again, if one were to speak of destroying the brick concept of house of God and establish human bodies as new fulfilment of house of God or temple of God or place of meeting of God and man.


  3. Many cults have formed on the basis of this same logic and have wrecked havoc in individuals lives.Where one mans misinterpretation messes everything up.So people who leave tpm will follow your ideology.i.e from the frying pan into the fire.
    Christianity was openly practised in 4th century because persecutions reduced.Thats when they decided to openly build church.Btw the oldest church is 1782 years old which was a house church.Thats how it used to be.The temple was built after tabernacle once Israelites settled in their homeland.


    1. And while the temple was made, it was clearly said by Solomon, that God does not dwell in temples.
      Look at how Stephen being filled with Holy Spirit utters this words in Acts 7

      47 But Solomon built him an house. 48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

      51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.


    2. @ //Christianity was openly practised in 4th century because persecutions reduced. Thats when they decided to openly build church.//

      In fourth century Catholicism came into power. The Babylonian harlot started riding upon Roman beast. So they (Catholics, Phariseetic Spirit) started building churches. However in first century, neither Jesus nor any apostle builded any church made up of bricks.


      1. and gradually along with this new found freedom of 4th Century came, Mary Worship, Saint Worship, Papacy, Clergy, Purgatory and a host of evils from Pagan Religion one after the other.


      2. @nath
        Please get your history corrected.
        also tell me in which century and how the Bible was put together.
        And on whose authority do u call the new testament a part of the scripture.
        How do u know which books are to be in the Bible .
        Please enlighten all of us here in search of the truth .


        1. @old believer
          As far as i know it was council of Carthage when biblical books were brought together and called Old and New Testament. These books were already accepted among Christians but now they were brought under one compilation. I am not a scholar on this subject. But all I know is that it was council, where Christians came together to decide on issue. It was not a single person decision. Source:

          I don’t know what you are trying to prove but let me clarify you that my belief in scripture is not based on some authority deciding Bible to be Bible. As for me, by God’s grace, I did actually see new in old concealed and old in new revealed. This old in new and new in old cannot be coincidence nor is it possible by human wisdom. The supernatural mind of Spirit is quite visible as inspiration behind writers of biblical books. I actually was able to see the red thread that binds old and new testament books. Point is that I don’t trust Bible to be Bible just because of some authority had declared it to be Bible. I believe in Bible just because I saw words of eternal in its every page.


        2. @nath
          The canon of scripture was formally identified ,1st at the council of Rome in 382 AD.
          Then it was reaffirmed in AD 393 at the council of Hippo.
          And the same was again confirmed in 397 AD at the council of Carthage.
          It was all done by a catholic pope named Damascus 1.
          And the Bible that was originally put together had 73 books which was changed by Martin Luther to 66 books as we currently have.


        3. @xian
          Whats the point in bringing compilation of books of Bible into discussion of “church as building ?” Or original comment of “Sony” in which he accepted that “Hierarchial System in churches” is unbilical ?



      It would do good to read Romans 10, in order to understand the article better.

      The Jews in their blindness missed the signs of the messiah and are instead wailing for the walls of the Temple and are eager to build it.

      By that token, should Christians also worship in Synagogues and take a trip to Jerusalem?

      By understanding how precious the soul is, we can solemnly confess to our Savior, saying- Dwell in me.

      From a sociological and cultural perspective, it’s a wonderful thing to go to church.
      But most Christians go to Church because they think its a sin to not attend an established church.
      This is the root of the problem. So you will reap a thousand young men who do not have a personal relationship with the Lord but are full of churchliness.

      Go to Church if you are being pulled there by the love of God… if you do not really feel the presence of God there, do not feel ashamed to stay put at home and pray, until you can find a set of fellow brethren who you could fellowship with.

      Psalm 51- David knew that sacrifices did not mean anything to the Lord, even though it was a law. He knew that God preferred tears and remorse and confession to a thousand bulls or a hill of spice.

      All I am saying is do not go to church just because you were conditioned all your life that church is the house of God. By that token, Jacob should not have left Bethel and gone to Syria or Hebron.

      If we retain the oldness of the letter, we will allow churches to become theological museums .
      Today’s church men do not encourage the newness of the spirit, because divisions have no place in its functioning.

      I do not want to digress but let me caution with this note: Ancient churches of Europe were basically pagan temples overlaid and renamed. So Diana/Athena/Ashteroth became Mary to the common illiterate masses.

      In the knowledge that YOUR body and MY body is/are the dwelling place of the Lord God, you can find the sweetest notes of melodious worship. Every sigh, every tear, every groan will be a thousand times more pleasing to the God of David than much shouting and screaming and high jumps within the church.

      On the other hand, if I happen to find a newly converted Christian- I will fully encourage him to attend a Bible believing church until he has been weaned and nourished in the word. Atleast for sometime.

      This is my opinion.


    4. Nath aka suraj stop talking for admin and you talk for your statements.Luke 19:41 Jesus cried foreseeing Temple desolation and he was sad.What Jeremiah said was seen by Jesus.Destruction of temple by Romans.Jesus said this temple can be destroyed but my body will be resurrected.Its something called as comparison.Jesus didnt say break the temple.What Stephen said was true.But the political time in Israel was when people wouldnt bear to hear that.Why?Because temple was important.If temple wasnt Gods then why it was called the moat Holy place?Why was the presence of God where the Ark of covenant was?Luke 19:46 was just quoted by Jesus without meaning?No.
      He requotes it.He says Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
      And it ends there.He doesnt talk or explain further.Why?Cuz its as simple as that.His House is House of prayer.Not even temple.House.


      1. Nath-Does it say anywhere Jesus and apostles went to evangelise only and not to pray?Jesus didnt speak against the temple ever.He foresaw what was going to happen.
        Btw again read that portion of Stephens martyrdom.Please read whole chapter.He says in Acts 7:48 quoting the prophet continuing down that these people in synagogue give importance to temple so much but didnt recognize when god himself walked among them.Now staying in context he was bought there because they charged him for speaking against temple.


      2. Dear brother ‘Old Believer’

        From the time of Abraham until the judges, the Children of Jacob/ Hebrews/ Israelites/Jews were under a theocracy headed by judges/ leaders who were ordained by God and anointed with the oil.

        Afterwards, it became a monarchy where the leading of God was largely diminished and the monarch fought/rule with autonomy. David is an exception and that is mostly for reasons of prophetic fulfillment.

        The plan of God is that through Jesus, all the world should be reconciled through Jesus.
        So, in the New Testament, it is enough if you gather under a tree in the name of Jesus and worship him with all your heart. He will be present.
        What about the 25 million secret Christians only in China, millions in Egypt, N. Korea etc… Do they go to Church? Don’t they worship more fluidly than the cold worship in the pews of the western churches?
        Just imagine how much this article will bring encouragement to a prisoner of Christ who is abandoned for his love for Christ.

        The disciples begged Jesus to understand when the Roman stranglehold on the Jews would end.
        Jesus replied that the Kingdom of Heaven is not structured along the hierarchies of men.

        Do you know why Jesus rebuked the merchants within the temple? Its because they were making business out of religion.

        For thousands of years, we were taught to go to the temple/mosque/church/ monastery or else…….. This is wrong. Its the business of religion. That is why admin mentioned in highlights- Do not go to church.
        You or I maybe in the church 24 hours and might still be no better than the sons of Eli whereas a secret Christian in Iraq might be praying like David prayed- a day in thy courts is better than a thousand.
        Who has the better fate, my friend?
        Thanks and apologies if I may not have understood the debate in the first place.


      3. Nath-
        Matt23:2,3 jesus said obey pharisees because they sit on moses seat?
        Why no authority needed?
        You pick and choose few biblical verse out of context and then mislead people like tpm.I have many more such verses many I have mentioned.Now use your own discretion.


        1. Jesus also said to Go and Show to the Priest
          When he saw them, he said, “Go, show yourselves to the priests.” And as they went, they were cleansed.Luke 17:14
          Jesus Himself was Circumcised on the 8th Day (Luke 2:21),
          Jesus Went to the Festival (John 7:10) and he did follow all the Jewish Laws.

          But after the new covenant was established by Jesus, you have to follow the principles of the New. You cannot claim to follow the New Covenant but continue with the rudiments of the Old. Now I understand why You call yourself OLD BELIEVER. It should be OLD COVENANT BELIEVER.

          You should decide what you need to follow. Old or New…Do not be a fence sitter


        2. The Whole thing sums up in Galatians 4:4-5
          4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
          5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

          The entire chapter is dedicated to showing us the futility of following the Judaic Law which cannot help us get salvation but keep us in Bondage.


        3. Ob
          As said by admin elsewhere, there is difference in shepherding (guidance) and trying to establish control by showing your supremacy. This spirit that wants to have preeminence is dangerous. Since Timothy was asked by Paul to appoint deacons and bishops in churches in his jurisdiction, therefore it is not wrong to have someone who is well equipped in knowledge of scriptures to teach us out of his knowledge, but he is never to be supposed as authority controlling us. Ee have seen much of this abuse in Tpm. Therefore written word of God is always the supreme authority. Look at Peter. He says we have seen Jesus with our eyes and have lived with him. But he says greater authority are not we and our testimony about Jesus. But greater than our words are more sure written word of God. ( 2 Peter 1:16-19).

          So the point is when you make scripture as authority, above man, then you will both listen someone who is guiding us and reject him if he is making out of Bible claims. That is why it is said – Sola Scriptura. But when you are in mindset of making a human as authority over you then you are making a way for your own fall.

          A humble advice: Cease reading literally and try to understand the mind before beginning to debate. You are just arguing without understanding what a person is trying to say.


  4. @Admin,

    Is the “BUILDING for the congregation” the problem or “CLERGY SYSTEM” in the congregation the problem ?
    According to what I understood the latter is the real issue. About the former not sure if its an issue.

    Cant this FELLOWSHIP/congregation be in a own permanent building ( not house ) ? Why I ask this question is because .
    If “house churches” grows beyond the space capacity of the house , bigger space is required..
    So considering
    a) renting out cost for a hall ( atleast two days a week ) for a couple of years
    b) the availability of such spaces whenever you need.. Is it not Ok to buy or build own spaces for this?

    NB:- Here I am not advocating/supporting for current system of building … breaking… building… breaking…. goes on…and on .


    1. Brother,
      Building or Open Ground is not an issue. Rented or Owned is not an issue. The Focus NEEDS to be reoriented from the Building and Clergy System we see now to being the Household of God. The People are the Body of Christ. This concept should not be diluted by Hierarchy, Organization, Buildings and all these noises.


    2. As i said earlier ” I know there are many churches/gatherings/fellowships started as House churches .. grown bigger beyond a house to a permanent building.. further grown… moved to a bigger building .. grown beyond a state / country and has some NAME and a word CHURCH in that name “.

      Is it wrong to be in a larger congregation ( not just house church with two or three families ) .
      Or what would be the size limit of a Local congregation?


      1. If the church splits into new groups when it becomes big to be managed, it is a good thing. Schisms based on Doctrines are the bane of Modern Christianity.


        1. With this i think it would be good to have a article on “What minimum Doctrines to be searched for in a congregation” .. or something like “What we believe / Doctrine of Truth “


  5. From what i understood and from what you clarified, You are not against attending/going to assembly/congregation ( you call it church/house/hall/home.. whatever u like ) , as long as The Focus of the congregation is the “Household of God” and is not diluted by Hierarchy, Organization, Buildings and all these noises and Its beyond all these.


  6. Interesting debate raging here and I like reading both views.

    Some people have an issue when they realise that there are some who know a little more than them. it takes true humility to accept that. Age and experience are good but sometimes it is good to accept that you don’t know everything. A smart man will do his independent research and come to his own conclusions. Test everything and take what is right, if you are born again, the Holy Spirit will confirm if what you are hearing is right.

    I don’t think that the admin is out to start a church, so I don’t understand why people are getting frustrated when he does not agree with their view point. He is writing what he knows based on his studies, we are visitors eating at his table, we have all the freedom to refuse what he dishes out if you don’t like it. No is one forced to come here and accept everything he says. In fact the Bible instructs us to test everything and take what is good.

    I appreciate the Admin’s guts as he is not filtering anyone’s jibes and also his patience in trying to explain complex matters which is a bit hard to digest for the uninformed.


    1. Yea so everyone needs to keep quiet if they dont accept certain things admin dishes out.Thats how problems in many churches started in the first place.So NMASTF you can keep quiet as per your very own humble opinion.


      1. My good Sir OB, this site is not a church or a denomination. There is no compulsion to accept anyone’s opinions but it would be great that we behave like guests as we don’t own or host or pay for the upkeep of this site. There is no need to agree with admin but it would be great if we behave like gentlemen when disagreeing. The Admin can dish out anything he likes, if you are mature enough you will discern it and you can ask for clarifications. If you don’t accept it, move on instead of assuming the intentions of the host.

        If you feel that this site is not meeting your desire to be vindictive on TPM, please start a site and label it as the TPM hall of shame and you can name and shame as you want.

        I understand what the Admin has said in this article and I fully agree that we as the church of Christ should not go to a man made church where we cannot enjoy the freedom which Jesus bought with his precious blood and in turn once again come under the law because of some anointed one, whose only aim is live off your hard earned money.

        I attend fellowship but will never again come under any moron’s yoke because he speaks in tongues or because he is celibate or because he is holy or because he is an old believer or he is a theologian. I was under TPM’s yoke but God has liberated me, Praise God.

        On a side note, the satanists also have a church and it is called the Church of Satan. They are better than some cults as they are open about whom they worship.


    2. I could not comprehend his statement that I am out to start a new Church. It just made me laugh. My entire effort is to remove the Division of the Body of Christ. And this Gentleman suspects me of starting another division. No Sir I am not into that Business.


  7. Acts 2:46,
    If a man lived in Jesus times in Israel.The most sure way to see him would be to go to the temple according to The Holy Bible.He was seen there many times teaching.Yes he would be in a ship,wilderness,mountain,disciples hpuses.But where most often?


    1. Dear OB,

      While I appreciate your difference of opinion, the admin has very clearly mentioned in comments the difference between church and fellowship, We are the church and group of people coming together is a fellowship and he asks us not to equate church with the fellowship. And He DOES NOT say “do not have a fellowship”. Then what is the whole point in arguing when what he mentions as fellowship is a church for you. It’s only confusion with words I believe.


    2. //If a man lived in Jesus times in Israel.//
      Clearly, you are living in the Old Covenant, where you met God in the Temple. But Bud…This changed 2000 Years ago, why live in History?
      This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. Matt 26:28
      “And for this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, in order that since a death has taken place…for where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives.(Hebrews 9:15-17).

      Even During Paul’s time, there were Judaizers who could not accept the changes brought by the NEW COVENANT. They wanted the Physical Circumcision to continue. That is the premise for the Epistle of Galatians Where Paul refutes the attempt by Judaisers to go to the old way of Circumcision. They cannot comprehend the fact that under the new covenant, it is Circumcision of Heart (Romans 2:25-29)

      Similarly, people do not understand that the Temple is no more a physical building made of Hands, but our own human Body(1 Corinthians 3:16) which we are expected to be a Living Sacrifice(Romans 12:1).
      Under the New Covenant, the Law is no more in old scrolls interpreted by religious scholars but it is written in our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33,Romans 2:15)

      The Above are some easy-to-spot differences between Churchianity and Christianity.


  8. @Admin, Pls., issue code of ethics to follow when commenting. Cannot stand the fact that two brethren demean each other when trying to discuss a issue. This is not whatsapp or FB chat. I noticed this in the previous posts. Let all comments be seasoned with salt so that it is spiritually edifying for all. This site should be a bench mark to follow, a place for serious discussion and not a casual chat column where people can come and discharge their loose cannons.


  9. Dear Admin

    I have a situation that I myself went through. I would request you to please guide in the next course of action.

    Suppose there are five born again people in a city where there is no fellowship or congestion and the nearest one is 200 kms away. These five people meet and discuss what needs to be done as it’s not practical for everybody to travel every Sunday to the nearest fellowship. They start a house meeting.

    Now how should the proceedings be in that fellowship? Is there a need for a leader and what are the minimum qualifications for him to be a leader.


    1. Brother,
      If you are five and want to have fellowship, I would encourage to do it. Just make sure that Love is the bonding factor and all of you are Brothers equal before God.
      Please make sure that your fellowship has the elements in 1 Cor 14:26. Let the Lord be the master of the fellowship and he leads you. Avoid a Pulpit-Pew makeup. Try to be seated in a circular formation as was the earlier churches. I do not think there is a need for any leader when it is a 5 people close-knit group. Even if you expand later on, please ensure that there is Not a Single Leader. Always it should be Plural. i.e, more than One elder as it was in early Churches. I am sure the Lord will Honour your initiative and lead you. Do let us know how things are progressing.
      God Bless you


  10. Perfect answer for the five people congregation. And that’s the model can be followed if the congregations number increases. Two elders , for approx. 100 people gatherings, this is the model which Cfc follows ( Br.Zac)


  11. Congrats admin for the 2nd article. And pointing out how Indian translator used sabha instead of palli ( temple) to mean church. This is a good insight for its meaning. There is no use of temple(palli) or mandiram anywhere in epistles or acts referring to ekklesia but KJV used term church instead.


  12. It looks like war against same group.

    Anyways, I was going through ekklesia. To me, both are same – church and gathering.

    Admin saying, no need to go to church (building), rather have fellowship anywhere. When you say anywhere, it again becomes a place of worship, be it a park or class, house or anywhere. But people running to a building and worshipping is being refuted by admin, that’s where I said, I smell a rat here.

    I do not see anything wrong for like minded people to come together and worship.

    The way admin is seeing things in detail, looks like it would be a trap like going to Alwyn state of edenic lifestyle.

    Like minded people coming amd worshipping will again lead to many churches or groups and all having their own interpretation leading to vicious cycle.

    My stand is, be where you are and live a Christ-like life. If God urges one to move out, move. I believe this is how many have moved out of TPM or any other denomination to better life in Christ. Just because one moves out of TPM, we should blow trumpet that all should move out of TPM sounds illogical. Everyone’s calling and election are different and God uses them accordingly for his purpose.


    1. Brother,
      It seems that you are mixing Fellowship and Worship assuming both to be the same. People assume the Singing of Praises and the supposed Filling in Spirit is worship. It is not so. Singing Praises can be said as “Praising”. But Worship is an individual action and its known to God and that Person only. It does not need any place. It could be during the fellowship but It can be even in your bathroom.

      And having lots of fellowship groups need not result in many churches/organizations. These kinds of organizations come up because they have some pet doctrines and the Clergy needs to have control over the Laity. If you are having a fellowship with some set of people, it should not mean that you should automatically stop having fellowship with other disciples. That is called dividing the Body of Christ. Always consider that you are a member of the Global Body of Christ and hence you have a love towards all other members of the Same body irrespective of Language, Nation, Sex, money or any other differentiation.

      //The way admin is seeing things in detail, looks like it would be a trap like going to Alwyn state of edenic lifestyle.//

      Keep you ideas with yourself. That is not the Admin’s currency. It works in a CULT like TPM Only.
      You will never find Admin propagating any Exclusivity like Alwyn or the TPM Clergy.


    2. Go to Strong’s Concordance G1577
      Under the Christian Sense section, the 4th Point is what we say as EKKLESIA in a Global Sense. But Local Fellowship of that group is what you see in the First Point of the same Section.


  13. @Admin,
    Could the word “temple” in below verses ( there are many other too ) be an interpretation issue ?

    Act 3:1 :- “Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer”
    Act 2:46 :- And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house .

    I searched in all available translations with me but could find the same term only “Temple/ ദൈവാലയം / मंदिर ” in all.

    What i am trying to understand is ” how much CORRECT is to say “DONT GOT TO CHURCH” ( Religious building ) even though you are the CHURCH-the Bride/Body of Christ ”
    May be i am missing something ??


    1. The simple answer is that in the very early days the followers of Jesus considered themselves to be Jews. They saw Jesus as the fulfillment of the Jewish laws and prophecies – that he had come to redeem Judaism and the Jews, not to set up another religion. The idea that Gentiles might be followers of Jesus without also becoming Jews would only be controversially considered many years later.
      In fact, God had to force Peter to Go out to the Gentiles.You can read that incident in Acts 10. The change did not come to them just like a switch turned ON. In fact, when we see the Epistle of Galatians, we can see Peter was dilly-dallying about issues like circumcision and Jewish Cleanliness laws. It was the revelation of Paul that made lots of changes in the early church doctrines.

      The Apostles also had other agendas to go to the Temple. So, they continued to remain in the Temple, not all day, but rather, during the morning and evening prayers (our 9 a.m. and 3 p.m.) where a gathering of Jews would always be. This crowd may not have been as large as the one at Pentecost (which only lasted one day), but the apostles took advantage of any opportunity to share the Gospel with as many of their brothers as possible. We even see this with Paul who would rush to Jerusalem for a feast in order to share the Gospel (Acts 18:21).

      Well, I am not saying that “Don’t Go to Church” because that will defile you or do something wrong.


  14. As some of us pointed out/asked earlier there is a possibility even “small house fellowships” will get expand eventually become a bigger one at a bigger place with a name for that.
    OR there may be situations where these Small house fellowships get some associations to some bigger assemblies.
    Ends up back to same situation right? Wont it become like ” grow as you divide … divide as you grow ” .

    Even if two or three families join together in a house and with plural elders, there could happen one Elder’s revelation is not same as that of other’s . Or in the absence of one of the elders , other could end up in confusion over a specific subject.

    Few examples:-
    I heard about one man of God started a house church with few others. In between he was out of town for few weeks.. When he came back he saw the fellowship has developed some sort of confusion.. Up on enquiry he found in his absence they all discussed about “whether we should keep our eyes opened or closed during prayer ” and everyone i think had different opinions.

    The other day i mentioned about what i heard One fellowship used BANANA CHIPS and PEPSI for communion. This could be acceptable for one , could cause raise their eyebrows in others .
    There could be difference of opinions if there is no directions How to do , what to do / what not to do .

    Every church has some or the other doctrines/teachings/practices which is questionable based on Word of God. ( I acknowledge and accept there are many such wrong preachings/so called phrophecies / revelations / practices in my local assembly currently )
    According to me if you exit one church “ON YOUR OWN” and go to another i may end up in church hopping every two weeks/ month.
    Rather Pray to GOD “Get me out of here “. Let God himself do the work .Let God Create a way to get you out along with others.
    Today If I fight and exit from one , it will result in a rift and quarrel in my own family too. My children will say daddy is a man of quarrel. Also I may endup offending another brother because of my act of fight.
    Let God create a way so that he get me out from one and lead me to another along with others who ( my family/fellow brothers etc.
    Till that time I think I should be there having my personal relations with Christ the Head right .. Praying to God . Till that time I think i can still stay where i am and enjoy the service and have a close relationship with the Lord .. ??

    As some one mentioned before when you hear a sermon/preaching/any message, HolySpirit in you will definitely tell if that is right or wrong , Is it for You / not for you…etc . Take that what is that for you. Leave behind which is not for you.
    If you have the right opportunities, access and knowledge to prove that what you heard is wrong according to the word of God, try to speak privately with the speaker ( if possible ) and convey why you felt its wrong. May be he will be willing to accept and change.


    1. //Even if two or three families join together in a house and with plural elders, there could happen one Elder’s revelation is not same as that of other’s . Or in the absence of one of the elders , other could end up in confusion over a specific subject.//

      Yes true that there is a chance for a new revelation popping up. That is what happened to TPM where the revelation popped up into the mind of the autocratic leader and there was nobody to challenge him on the basis of Scripture. If the Church has only one elder, then this is a real possibility. That is why we recommend at least 2 elder in a church.

      Moreover, all doctrines need to be established by the scripture and checked whether the Apostles followed it and taught it in their lifetime. TPM Specific doctrines have no scriptural background and hence easy to refute by any follower who knows his bible.


      1. //I heard about one man of God started a house church with few others. In between he was out of town for few weeks.. When he came back he saw the fellowship has developed some sort of confusion.. Up on enquiry he found in his absence they all discussed about “whether we should keep our eyes opened or closed during prayer ” and everyone i think had different opinions.//

        This kind of confusion occurs because there was a SINGLE ELDER(Leader) on whom all power, authority, and wisdom were put on. Never have a single leader that will make it get into issues like this.

        As far as this particular issue of closing of eyes are concerned, the Bible has no specific instructions on it. Hence you cannot spiritually enforce anything. But in my opinion, there is an advantage of closing the eyes to get concentration on what is to be prayed. But that cannot be made a Rule. There are times, I have been in intense prayer while Driving. Of course, I was driving with my eyes opened. Its how you cultivate the presence of God with you.


        1. I think i specified correctly PLURAL elders when i wrote “Even if two or three families join together in a house and with plural elders, there could happen one Elder’s revelation is not same as that of other’s .”

          Regarding “eyes closing” i quoted as an example of confusion/difference of opinion . I agree with you that it cant be made rule but has the advantages. I must say real incident which same man of God himself shared in a sermon .


        2. Sorry I missed out. Then all the easier. Every doctrine should be clearly specified in the Scripture. No new revelation should be accepted without clear scriptural evidence. Preferably more than one place.(2 CORINTHIANS 13:1)


        3. Yes brother

          I also sometimes pray while driving, sometimes I cry out loud i.e when I drive alone. I also don’t know when I reach office after starting from home and I feel good.


    2. //The other day i mentioned about what i heard One fellowship used BANANA CHIPS and PEPSI for communion. This could be acceptable for one , could cause raise their eyebrows in others .
      There could be difference of opinions if there is no directions How to do , what to do / what not to do .//

      Well, I too have heard of such things. But I would not recommend anything like that.
      At the same time, I would suggest a change in the usual Holy Communion materials. Instead of the Bread, you get from the market, make UNLEAVENED Bread in your kitchen. The ones used by TPM and many other churches in India are the Leavened Bread.


    3. //Every church has some or the other doctrines/teachings/practices which is questionable based on Word of God. ( I acknowledge and accept there are many such wrong preachings/so called phrophecies / revelations / practices in my local assembly currently )
      According to me if you exit one church “ON YOUR OWN” and go to another i may end up in church hopping every two weeks/ month.
      Rather Pray to GOD “Get me out of here “. Let God himself do the work .Let God Create a way to get you out along with others.
      Today If I fight and exit from one , it will result in a rift and quarrel in my own family too. My children will say daddy is a man of quarrel. Also I may endup offending another brother because of my act of fight.
      Let God create a way so that he get me out from one and lead me to another along with others who ( my family/fellow brothers etc.
      Till that time I think I should be there having my personal relations with Christ the Head right .. Praying to God . Till that time I think i can still stay where i am and enjoy the service and have a close relationship with the Lord .. ??//

      I would not recommend Church hoping for any flimsy reason. That makes you finicky . But you may leave the Church if they have real doctrinal issues like that of TPM. Even so, I would recommend that you bring it to the notice of the elders and if they do not intend to change, you should leave. This is How Jesus Did. He tried to change the Stickknecked people, but they would not. Finally, he had to leave them. (Matt 23:37-38)



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