The Day of his Return mentioned in the Bible

It is so important for us to know about the day of the coming of our Lord, that if we do not know it, we will be deceived and become a laughing stock before the rest of the World. TPM Believers have believed into the lies of their clergy regarding the second coming, that they did not realize there was NO such thing as a Secret Rapture/Coming. Shall we not believe what Jesus Said? Instead, I see that a majority are giving their ears to their Religious Clergy and not even bothering to check what Jesus said about his own second coming.

Beware of Wolves in Sheep’s Clothing

TPM believers have gone one step ahead. They have even surrendered their souls and their eternity to their Clergy who have agreed/contracted to place them in New Jerusalem. This reminds me of an incident that happened with one of my friends a few years back. He had paid ₹ 3,50,000 to an agent who promised to take him and his family to Canada and provide him with initial accommodation, Permanent Resident status along with Jobs. He was made to believe in the intention of the agent by some tricks like an office in Canada(obviously dummy) and calls in a Canadian accent. Poor fellow thought that he will be on his way to Canada Soon. Unfortunately, it was not to be so.  The agent was too smart. After taking the fees the agent gave him Canadian Air Tickets. His Family passports were handed over for the Visa Stamping. Unfortunately, they never got their passport/visa and also the ticket was canceled by the agents in the counter.

My Friend lost some money and Time in this Canada Fraud Case. But, with TPM, is that the case? You lose your Family, your Mind, your Money, your Health, your Social Life and your Eternity. Are you willing to stake your “ALL” for an Organization that even does not know about the Coming of the Lord as per the Bible? Think before you invest. Don’t blame God when you stand at Judgement. He will not heed to any of your excuses.

The Day of his coming – The Day of the Lord

The entire Bible is replete with the Day of the Lord as the Day when Jesus comes again. Before we explain, Let us turn to an Old Testament Chapter to see how the prophets saw about this day.

10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining11 And the Lord shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for THE DAY OF THE LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?  Joel 2:10-11


In the Olivet Discourse, the Apostles asked Jesus Three(3) Specific Questions (Matt 24:3)

  1. when shall these things be? (Destruction of the Temple)
  2. and what shall be the sign of thy coming,
  3. and of the end of the world(this Age/ Eon)?

Do you notice that they are asking the Lord Regarding the Sign of His Coming? And the Lord Graciously tells them all. But our Secret Rapture Heroes tells us that Jesus can come any moment and There need not be any Sign and we will all disappear.  At least Jesus did not know of this kind of Secret Coming. Otherwise, he would have already told them(Pun Intended). But Yes Jesus warned of One importantThing.

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. Matthew 24:4

He knew that there will be rampant deception before his second coming. One of the greatest Deception that we see around us is this SECRET COMING Deception. The Apostles did not believe or preach in a Coming without Signs (Secret Coming). They all believed and Preached in a Second Coming With Signs.

Now before we proceed, scroll up and read once more the verses from Joel (Joel 2:10-11) at the start of this section. Do you see the Sign mentioned by Joel? Its underlined in the verse above. Yes, there will be very significant cosmic signs that will come before the day of the Lord.

This same is what Jesus told his disciples. Let us read Matthew 24:29-31

The Day of his Return mentioned in the Bible29 Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Do you now realize that this is the same “DAY OF THE LORD” mentioned by Joel the prophet?

Actually, the Bible is very easy to understand if you are not caught in the web of TPM Interpretation.  As they had to put this special Secret Rapture in place, they twist and turn all scriptures to confuse the audience about end times. I have heard of sermons by TPM Preachers in which they tried to split The Day of the Lord and Day of Christ as two separate days after the day of the Secret coming. Sadly, they are just instruments of the prophecy fulfillment in Matt 24:4.

What were the Apostles waiting for? Secret Rapture or the Day of the Lord?

So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the “DAY OF OUR LORD” Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 1:7-8

But the DAY OF THE LORD will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 2 Peter 3:10

But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that DAY OF THE LORD so cometh as a thief in the nightFor when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thess 5:1-4

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the DAY OF CHRIST(LORD) is at hand. 2 Thess 2:1-2

19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable DAY OF THE LORD come: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Acts 2:19-21

How Should the end times play out?

It should play out exactly as mentioned by our Lord in Matthew 24. Remember he has ONLY ONE SECOND COMING and there is no SECRET COMING.

Please notice the SIGNS in the SUN, MOON, and STARS that we are PLAINLY told in the books of ACTS will appear BEFORE the WRATH of God, the DAY of the Lord that comes as a THIEF in the night occurs or appear IMMEDIATELY AFTER the GREAT TRIBULATION. So, therefore, the GREAT TRIBULATION and the WRATH of God, which is called the DAY of the Lord are NOT ONE and the SAME event. (Matthew 24:29-30)

Please take note of the exact order that these events occur. FIRST, comes the ABOMINATION of DESOLATION, which begins the time of GREAT TRIBULATION, which lasts for around 3 ½ years and NOT seven years like many of us have been taught.  (Matthew 24:152 Thess 2:3)

Then IMMEDIATELY AFTER the GREAT TRIBULATION of those days there will appear SIGNS in the heavens and in the earth beneath, the SUN, shall be darkened, the MOON shall be as blood, or not give her light, the STARS of heaven shall fall.

THEN and only then shall Jesus come again to take us in the Clouds. (Matthew 24:31)

The church will be here to witness these SIGNS that will cause men’s hearts to fail for fear seeing the things that are coming upon the earth. But we are not in darkness and are not giving the Spirit to fear, so look up and lift up your heads that may be tempted to fear and doubt that the Lord is truly coming and you begin to THINK NOT that Jesus is coming, and your brothers and sister in the Lord begin scoffing and say, where is the promise of his coming, for when you see THESE things or these SIGNS, then know that your redemption is near. The next thing you will see is Jesus coming riding on a CLOUD and you will be Raptured.

Conclusion

In conclusion, I would like to clarify some doubts you may have. Such doubts arise when you are constantly fed with lies from the pulpit.

He comes as a Thief. So should not that be a Secret Rapture?

The word Thief has a misleading connotation in modern times. These days thieves come by hiding and in the sly. However, that was not the case during Jesus time. During those days, the Thief comes to Steal, Kill, and Destroy (John 10:10).

No man can enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house. Mark 3:27

Clearly, the Thief in those days was known to come suddenly in a surprise attack, break into the house and plunder the goods. It was Never a Secretive Sly coming. We see in the scriptures, he comes as a Thief only for the wicked and the unprepared ones. He does not come as a Thief for us who are of the Light.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thess 5:4

So Paul is telling us that the RAPTURE of the church is the DAY of the Lord, or more precisely that the RAPTURE takes place, or occurs AT the time Jesus come to execute the WRATH of Almighty God

Remember therefore how you have received and heard, and HOLD FAST, and repent. IF THEREFORE you shall NOT WATCH, I WILL come upon YOU as a THIEF, and you shall not know what hour I will come upon you.” Rev 3:3

Now the opposite of this verse in equally true. THEREFORE IF we ARE WATCHING Jesus will NOT come upon us as a THIEF.

No Man Knoweth the Day or the Hour

I will let you watch the below video and make out what happens to people who take scriptures out of context.

God Bless you.

61 Comments on “The Day of his Return mentioned in the Bible”

  1. Article says …. ///the DAY of the Lord that comes as a THIEF in the night occurs or appear IMMEDIATELY AFTER the GREAT TRIBULATION……
    FIRST, comes the ABOMINATION of DESOLATION, which begins the time of GREAT TRIBULATION, which lasts for around 3 ½ years and NOT seven years like many of us have been taught…….
    The church will be here to witness these SIGNS ///

    Question :- Once we come to know abomination of desolation is kept in the Temple can’t some one predict “DAY of the Lord ” is 3.5 years after that ? How can then we say “you shall not know what hour I will come”

    Or Once we see the 2 witness’ (Rev 11 ) are have come , exactly 3.5 years later they will be killed ( 1260 days ) and their body shall be in streets of Jerusalem for 3.5 days which whole world shall see.. So cant some one exactly specify the Day of the Lord is 3.5 days from the day the witnesses are killed ?

    How can then we say “you shall not know what hour I will come”




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    1. Brother,
      We can, of course, “almost predict” the end of Tribulation once the Abomination of Desolation is installed. However, the Day of the Lord is After the Tribulation and After the Cosmic Signs. These gaps are not something we can predict. Hence we cannot predict the Exact Day or the Hour. However, we should be very cognizant of the Times and Season as written in 1 Thess 5:1-4
      Note a verse from Joel regarding the Day of the Lord.


      The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood BEFORE the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. Joel 2:31


      Note the term “BEFORE“, It does not, however, gives an idea to predict a date. But we should very well know when it is close.




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      1. Do you know why I am telling that we can ‘“Almost Predict” the end of tribulation rather than “Predict” ? Its because of Matthew 24:22




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        1. @Admin,
          Somehow, the the idea/topic that Church will be here in this world during the time of GT , is not so easily “going down my throat”. May be because i am taught/heard like that ( Not only by TPM but also by other denominations ) from childhood.

          A few points/doubts which i would like to pen down here.:-

          1) Somebody commented my beliefs sounds “escaping persecution” . Not sure if it does .
          I truly agree and remember many Christians persecuted starting from first century. Even today it happens in many places , even in our own country too.. I don’t deny that. Tommorrow it will/can happen to us also . I do believe as we come to the “end of the end times” the persecutions to the godly will be more. But is that really the “Great Tribulation” we are talking about ?

          2)You mentioned like this in the other article comments :-
          ///Is God UNJUST to let you ( me ) and few People of Modern age enter unscathed when his dearest apostles and the church of the early ages were tortured, beaten, Killed, Fed to lion, Burned at the Stakes?”///
          Whereas in another comment/reply you mentioned when explaining my doubt Luke 21:36 “you might have strength to escape” like this :-
          /// It shows that the time of the end will be a very perilous time. We will have to be really watchful and prayerful to come out of that unscathed…////// ..
          Not sure if these statements contradicts each other. Even if i enter GT , I will get strength to come out unscathed as per Luke 21:36 … in effect i am not suffering persecution ( tribulation ) as his dearest apostles and the church of the early ages ..

          3) Also you mentioned :- ///” are they ( early age church & apostles ) not the part of Bride ?? ..If we dont enter G T and Suffer , is God Unjust to take us also as part of Bride along with them ( early age church & apostles who suffered ) ” ///
          Question :- How this will apply to ” Dead in Christ ( non-martyrs ) starting from early days till the end ( I am talking about The “dead in christ who were not-tortured, not-beaten, not-Killed, not Fed to lion, not Burned at the Stakes,be-headed etc .. ) Are they not part of Bride ??

          4) In 1 Thess : 5 : 9 & 10 Apostle mentions “God has not appointed us unto wrath ” . So one corrected me saying its Wrath of God and not Wrath of Anti-christ . Agreed and thanks for Correction. But Is it not the time of GT in a way “pouring of Wrath of God”?

          5) To the Church of Philadelphia spirit of God writes “Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. ” .
          Jesus himself says in another place “Watch and pray that ye may not enter into tribulation”

          6) 2Thess 2:6 and 7 speaks of “some who restrains/holds back “. ( I know this is debatable topic as who is this someone/thing .., i believed this to be Holyspirit/Church , which should be removed from the way.

          7) 1st Thess 4:16, 17 says at Jesus coming ” that time will be gathered up along with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air” .
          But about Jesus coming after GT its mentioned as Zec 14:4 & 5 “his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives. …… he LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee… and Rev 19:11-21 speaks of Lord comes with his armies for war down to earth ” ( This is after GT )

          So when Jesus comes after GT his saints / army ( i believe it is the saints/bride ) comes down with him . When was the saints went up?
          Or is it like ..
          After the GT itself Jesus will come in mid air and dead and alive in christ will Go up to meet him as in 1 Thess:4:16-18 , and then take a U turn to come down immediately to earth and fulfil Zechariah 14 passage and Rev 19:-11-21 passage ?

          Sorry in this question I am trying to understand the sequence of events in Post-trib .

          8) Another point which is still dragging is Daniel prophesies 8:11, 9:24-27,12:11 . As per we discussed before , 70 week in 9:24-27 fulfilled completely by AD34( or around). But
          a) passage of Jerusalem destruction happened in AD70 which is not in 70th week ( its outside 70 weeks )
          b) The 9:27 also speaks about “abomination that maketh desolate”. But didnt understand about if this is fulfilled by AD34( around ) and how .
          c) 9:24 says one reason for appointment of 70 weeks is to seal up the vision and prophecy [ “wə·laḥ·tōm = cha-tham = make and end / to close up /stop ” .. Not sure when we say 70 weeks are already fulfilled , there is no vision and prophecy after AD 34 ”

          9) In Tit 2:13 mentioned tht “looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

          As i mentioned earlier , the Coming of Lord and Rapture of Church is taught and believed as the “hope of a Christian”. I too believe that. and we all wait for “The Lord Jesus Christ”

          But if we would like to say Church will go into GT , and GT will start when Antichrist will appear as abomination or desolation in temple, and Lord will come 3.5 years [ or less keeping in mind Mat 24:22 as you mentioned yesterday ] from there ( or 3.5 days after witnesses dies, and we see their bodies ) , isn’t it like we are saying ” wait of AC to come and witness to be killed OR ” In a way is nt it opening a backdoor which allows you to wait till last 3.5 years to set things right ( if we don’t die before ) .

          Extremely Sorry if any of my words in this comment sounded harsh, honestly didn’t mean it to be. Submitting completely into the hand of God and praying so that he may open my eyes to understand the mysteries of word of God.




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        2. Forgot to add one thing about point 2 :-

          About GT its mentioned :-
          “For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.” == means this will be much much more severe than 1st century church persecutions or any other persecutions of Past / future ‘
          Question :- Is our God so unjust to send NT church “only” along with un-believers to such a severe , unmatched tribulation ? As of now i don’t believe so ..




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        3. Well Brother…The thing which will be unmatched is not the extent of cruelty as we can never be crossing the cruelty mete to Jesus. What Jesus meant was that this Great Tribulation would be a Global Phenomenon. That way It will be unmatched for any thing that has yet happened.
          The max anybody can do to you takes your life. They cannot do anything beyond that.
          “I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. Luke 12:4




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        4. @brother ILJ
          Brother did you go through opendoorsusa (dot) org. I don’t think persecution of Christians has stopped since first century.
          @ Your question is God unjust
          Well, those who went through it, underwent it through joy. They thanked God that God counted them worthy to suffer for his name
          (Acts 5:41, Heb 10:34).




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        5. //1) Somebody commented my beliefs sounds “escaping persecution” . Not sure if it does .
          I truly agree and remember many Christians persecuted starting from first century. Even today it happens in many places , even in our own country too.. I don’t deny that. Tommorrow it will/can happen to us also. I do believe as we come to the “end of the end times” the persecutions to the godly will be more. But is that really the “Great Tribulation” we are talking about ? //

          They will kill us, Brother…. That is the max they can do to us (Luke 12:4).
          but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. Matt 24:13


          //2)You mentioned like this in the other article comments :-
          ///Is God UNJUST to let you ( me ) and few People of Modern age enter unscathed when his dearest apostles and the church of the early ages were tortured, beaten, Killed, Fed to lion, Burned at the Stakes?”///
          Whereas in another comment/reply you mentioned when explaining my doubt Luke 21:36 “you might have strength to escape” like this :-
          /// It shows that the time of the end will be a very perilous time. We will have to be really watchful and prayerful to come out of that unscathed…////// ..
          Not sure if these statements contradicts each other. Even if i enter GT , I will get strength to come out unscathed as per Luke 21:36 … in effect i am not suffering persecution ( tribulation ) as his dearest apostles and the church of the early ages ..//

          Great Tribulation this time have the double edge of Spiritual Deception with Physical Persecution. Spiritual Deceptions are so dangerous that if you are caught you will not get out of that Delusion. I do not think it contradicts, but rather I meant that we have to come out of that deadly Period of time (dead or alive) with our Faith Intact


          //3) Also you mentioned :- ///” are they ( early age church & apostles ) not the part of Bride ?? ..If we dont enter G T and Suffer , is God Unjust to take us also as part of Bride along with them ( early age church & apostles who suffered ) ” ///
          Question :- How this will apply to ” Dead in Christ ( non-martyrs ) starting from early days till the end ( I am talking about The “dead in christ who were not-tortured, not-beaten, not-Killed, not Fed to lion, not Burned at the Stakes,be-headed etc .. ) Are they not part of Bride ?? //

          Brother, If you are thinking of the externality, I am not anybody to comment about any trials and tribulations people went through. I know of people who never gave away their problems but went through many trials.

          3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:Romans 5:3-4
          In case you are pointing to Pulpit warmers of modern times, I will withhold my comments. All that I can say is Let God to true and every man a Liar. Rom 3:4
          Only way Philadelphia church was protected in the Tribulation(Rom 3:10) was that they had attained Patience. and this patience was achieved through Tribulation (Rom 5:3-4). So I guess the only way that would have happened is a life of sporadic tribulation and trials right from the start.


          //4) In 1 Thess : 5 : 9 & 10 Apostle mentions “God has not appointed us unto wrath ” . So one corrected me saying its Wrath of God and not Wrath of Anti-christ . Agreed and thanks for Correction. But Is it not the time of GT in a way “pouring of Wrath of God”?//

          Friend, the GT is actually the wrath of Anti Christ(Rev 12:12) and not of God. The wrath of God starts from the Day of the Lord when we have been raptured. (Zeph 1:15-18, Zeph 2:2

          The word itself is Christ Saying Tribulation. It means, it is Trouble. If it was the Wrath, he would not name it Trouble or tribulation.
          The Wrath of God is upon the Unrighteous people not upon the righteous. Romans 5:9 speaks about eternal Hell Fire, not the temporary 3.5 years of Tribulation. So please do not mix up both.

          As mentioned earlier, Tribulation is not God’s Chastening. Therefore please do not mix up with 1 Cor 1:32. Tribulation is unleashed by Anti Christ and Satan on the Children of God. The Church of God is the sufferer.


          //5) To the Church of Philadelphia spirit of God writes “Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. ” .
          Jesus himself says in another place “Watch and pray that ye may not enter into tribulation”//

          Rev 3:10 usage is “Tereo Ek” very similar, it means we will be kept without harm in the situation. It does not mean getting out before it. In the Greek “will keep you from” is TEREO EK. TEREO means to “watch over protectively, guard” and with the preposition EK it carries the idea of being guarded or protected and rescued out from the midst of danger. If the idea of keeping one from entering were intended the preposition APO would have been used.
          So it is the idea of deliverance out from within rather than an external deliverance.

          Jesus said in Matthew 26:41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation“.

          Brother Do you know the difference between Tribulation and Temptation? I guess some TPM Preachers have already messed up with your vocabulary.

          Jesus said “In the world ye shall have tribulationJohn 16:33


          //6) 2Thess 2:6 and 7 speaks of “some who restrains/holds back “. ( I know this is debatable topic as who is this someone/thing .., i believed this to be Holyspirit/Church , which should be removed from the way.

          7) 1st Thess 4:16, 17 says at Jesus coming ” that time will be gathered up along with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air” .
          But about Jesus coming after GT its mentioned as Zec 14:4 & 5 “his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives. …… he LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee… and Rev 19:11-21 speaks of Lord comes with his armies for war down to earth ” ( This is after GT )

          So when Jesus comes after GT his saints / army ( i believe it is the saints/bride ) comes down with him . When was the saints went up?
          Or is it like ..
          After the GT itself Jesus will come in mid air and dead and alive in christ will Go up to meet him as in 1 Thess:4:16-18 , and then take a U turn to come down immediately to earth and fulfil Zechariah 14 passage and Rev 19:-11-21 passage ?//

          All these will be addressed in a future article soon.


          //8) Another point which is still dragging is Daniel prophesies 8:11, 9:24-27,12:11 . As per we discussed before , 70 week in 9:24-27 fulfilled completely by AD34( or around). But
          a) passage of Jerusalem destruction happened in AD70 which is not in 70th week ( its outside 70 weeks )
          b) The 9:27 also speaks about “abomination that maketh desolate”. But didnt understand about if this is fulfilled by AD34( around ) and how .
          c) 9:24 says one reason for appointment of 70 weeks is to seal up the vision and prophecy [ “wə·laḥ·tōm = cha-tham = make and end / to close up /stop ” .. Not sure when we say 70 weeks are already fulfilled , there is no vision and prophecy after AD 34 ”//

          I had already addressed these in the other clarification…I am not able to understand your concern here..HOW IS TRIBULATION anyway connected to Daniel 9:24 70 Weeks?


          //9) In Tit 2:13 mentioned tht “looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;//

          Great point How can Jesus ever appear in Glory for which we are looking for , if HE is coming and whisking us away in Secret?
          Dont you think The above quoted verse is being fulfilled in Rev 1:7?




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      1. That wasn’t my intention although I get a vibe from the tone of this site that you guys, while rightfully exposing the joke that is Tpm, is kinda no different in the level of indoctrination…

        Let me not assume that just because you shared stuff from Paul washer or Steven Anderson
        (Also see this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFdCC_tUUz4)
        that you fully buy into their belief systems..but the interesting thing for me is your assumption that their interpretations are somehow “more biblical” ….I really don’t understand the basis on which you reach that conclusion…..

        As far as I know there are several different theories on this whole rapture business

        1. Pre-tribulational Premillennialism
        2. Mid-tribulational Premillennialism
        3. Prewrath Premillennialism
        4. Partial Premillennialism
        5. Post-tribulational Premillennialism
        6. Amillennialism
        7. Post-Millennialism
        Also this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC1s_0Fx9p4 (gives a nice short overview)

        Isn’t it a shame that you guys don’t have a consensus on what the Bible actually says…This article , as far as I understood, tried to debunk the pretrib rapture theory which TPM espouses….and I am sure TPM folks or any pretrib subscribers will use the same Bible to try to prove their case….so is the case with all the different eschatological views…..

        This is why I agree with this atheist in issues like this..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEHZrpzMhN4
        ( Do not listen to this guy lest your faith should be shaken)




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        1. Dear Xb,
          Though I do not know much about the Life after Death, I do know whom I believe(2 Timothy 1:12). He had conquered Death and Hell. He has the keys of Death (Revelation 1:18)
          I have strong reason and confidence in believing the one who said he is the Resurrection and Life (John 11:25), not because of any boasting. But solely he is the ONLY One who crossed the great chasm and has come back to tell me that I can believe on him.

          What do you believe that will happen to you after death? Do you want to be a partner with that Bill Maher who has made his sole aim to make fun of people who cannot talk back?




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        2. //Though I do not know much about the Life after Death, I do know whom I believe(2 Timothy 1:12). He had conquered Death and Hell. He has the keys of Death (Revelation 1:18)
          I have strong reason and confidence in believing the one who said he is the Resurrection and Life (John 11:25), not because of any boasting. But solely he is the ONLY One who crossed the great chasm and has come back to tell me that I can believe on him.//

          Good for you

          //What do you believe that will happen to you after death? //
          I”believe” I will be in heaven

          //Do you want to be a partner with that Bill Maher who has made his sole aim to make fun of people who cannot talk back?//

          I don’t see why I should ‘partner’ with Bill Maher , tell me a reason why..?
          I don’t believe making fun of people was his ‘sole aim’, but yea he is a ‘comedian’ and that’s what comedians do…

          people who cannot talk back? What do you even mean by that?




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        3. Dear XB,
          Nobody espouses anybody fully. we putting in videos of certain people is just for that Video. Do let me know your opinion of how Jesus reacted to Peter in 2 different circumstances in Matt 16:13-23. The same is our method.

          As Far as different Rapture position is concerned, It seems you are satisfied with the TPM positioning. and the Verse quoted by TPM is 1 Thess 4:16-17. Do you see it be a pre-trib from the Bible? if so, can you please answer and show me that a tribulation happens after that from the Bible? I don’t see any.

          As far as my position (Post-Trib) is concerned, I do not want to give any interpretation other than the scriptures. Just read Matt 24:29-31 and let me know if that does not support my position.




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        4. //It seems you are satisfied with the TPM positioning.//

          No way…..I consider most of TPM ‘s (and similar organizations’) opinions just their own opinions, whether it be pre trib or post trib or non trib or whatever trib…..My stance on this whole rapture thing is neutral to the best of my abilities….I don’t care if it happens or not happens, if it happens before rapture or after rapture, I really don’t care…

          The only reason I commented was I felt the itch to voice my own opinion here, nothing more nothing less( thanks to a jobless Friday evening..haha)

          I don’t have any particular opinion regarding Jesus’s reactions to Peter in that passage…at the first occasion He applauded Peter for saying what He wanted to hear and in the next occasion He rebuked Peter for saying things He didn’t want to hear….anything else that I am missing????

          //and the Verse quoted by TPM is 1 Thess 4:16-17. Do you see it be a pre-trib from the Bible? if so, can you please answer and show me that a tribulation happens after that from the Bible? I don’t see any.//

          No, I don’t see it that way….I’ve heard the preterists use the same verse to put across their opinions…as I said earlier, people can use the same Bible verse and interpret it in any way they want….

          //As far as my position (Post-Trib) is concerned, I do not want to give any interpretation other than the scriptures. Just read Matt 24:29-31 and let me know if that does not support my position.//

          Of course, if you cherry pick verses and paste them all together you can create a narrative and claim your views are right….I went back and read the whole passage again….Answer me these questions..

          1. Why did Jesus say in Matthew 29,verse 34…”this generation shall not pass until all these things be fulfilled?” oh and pls don’t copy paste the gotquestions.org answer for that (which basically is like any other narrative to twist verses to fit one’s own agenda…)

          2 That chapter started with this…
          “And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

          2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
          …When did the “buildings of the temple” was left in such a state…pre trib or post trib?

          3. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
          (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_claimed_to_be_Jesus) please answer this..post trib or pre trib?

          4. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake

          Who is that “you” Jesus was referring , admin or Xb or maybe the disciples?

          5. Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains
          For what??

          6. So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

          34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

          Again similar question….Who is that “ye” Jesus was referring to? Who was “this generation”

          and many more but they are not directly related to the topic we were discussing…..

          I pose these questions only because you asked me about my opinions on those verses…




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        5. //Of course, if you cherry pick verses and paste them all together you can create a narrative and claim your views are right….I went back and read the whole passage again….Answer me these questions..//

          Do you think I am cherry Picking? Did not I tell you in the article that the sequence of events is in Matt 24? You are predisposed to negatively portray all that I would do. Not really worth the exercise.


          //1. Why did Jesus say in Matthew 29,verse 34…”this generation shall not pass until all these things be fulfilled?” oh and pls don’t copy paste the gotquestions.org answer for that (which basically is like any other narrative to twist verses to fit one’s own agenda…)//

          This is the same generation that would see all these things in the end times happening i.e the generation that sees the signs of his coming.


          //2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
          …When did the “buildings of the temple” was left in such a state…pre trib or post trib?//

          This happened in AD 70 and this is Got nothing to do with the great tribulation as that was not the end-time then. Great Tribulation is a short time of Tribulation just before Jesus comes.


          //3. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
          (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_claimed_to_be_Jesus) please answer this..post trib or pre trib?//

          I don’t understand the same way as you think. No Right thinking Christian will ever be deceived by someone claiming themselves to be Christ. This is the case of people who come and say that “Jesus is Christ”(note the original term “I am Christ”. I meaning Jesus) and then Deceive many.

          Wow!!How does that happen? is not the entire Christendom saying the same?

          Well, that is the real problem. Their initial confession is Right and therefore, causes many to lower their defense. In that kind of scenario, these people will inject deceptively their doctrines to deceive. Is not TPM doing the same? They have the right initial confession about Jesus, Trinity, Baptism etc..But then, they deceive people by their exclusive doctrines leading disciples after them.


          //4. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake

          Who is that “you” Jesus was referring , admin or Xb or maybe the disciples?//

          Jesus is talking to the disciples. They are the representative of the Church. The “You” in this passage is the Disciples of Jesus. As this is a prophecy of a distant future, it should be applied for the disciples of that time. John 17:20, Matthew 28:19,Mark 16:15-16)


          //5. Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains
          For what??//

          To save their own lives from the attack


          //6. So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

          34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

          Again similar question….Who is that “ye” Jesus was referring to? Who was “this generation” //

          This is regarding the same generation which will see the Sign of the Second Coming of the Lord.




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        6. //Do you think I am cherry Picking? Did not I tell you in the article that the sequence of events is in Matt 24? You are predisposed to negatively portray all that I would do. Not really worth the exercise.//

          Yes…you told me this…
          ‘As far as my position (Post-Trib) is concerned, I do not want to give any interpretation other than the scriptures. Just read Matt 24:29-31 and let me know if that does not support my position.’

          And what i was trying to say by “cherrypicking” is that there are many other passages in the Bible which the ‘others’ use to try to support their position just like you used many Bible verses and tie them into a narrative….you can think whatever you want about my disposition but I take it as an emotional response…

          //1. Why did Jesus say in Matthew 29,verse 34…”this generation shall not pass until all these things be fulfilled?” oh and pls don’t copy paste the gotquestions.org answer for that (which basically is like any other narrative to twist verses to fit one’s own agenda…)//
          This is the same generation that would see all these things in the end times happening i.e the generation that sees the signs of his coming.

          How is it not just your opinion? Do you have any proof that Jesus didn’t mean the generation He was directly addressing when he spoke or He was mentioning the mentioning a future generation?

          Please explain Matthew 16:28 (maybe cherrypicking/maybe not…judge for yourself)

          Also please explain Mathew 10:23

          (The same comment is repeated down..)

          //2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
          …When did the “buildings of the temple” was left in such a state…pre trib or post trib?//
          This happened in AD 70 and this is Got nothing to do with the great tribulation as that was not the end-time then. Great Tribulation is a short time of Tribulation just before Jesus comes.

          If that had nothing to do with the great tribulation, why did Jesus mention it in the midst of the passage where He was supposedly telling about the end times? seems a bit odd, doesn’t it?

          //3. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
          (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_claimed_to_be_Jesus) please answer this..post trib or pre trib?//
          I don’t understand the same way as you think. No Right thinking Christian will ever be deceived by someone claiming themselves to be Christ. This is the case of people who come and say that “Jesus is Christ”(note the original term “I am Christ”. I meaning Jesus) and then Deceive many.

          I didn’t understand your statement there, so I am not commenting about it.

          //4. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake
          Who is that “you” Jesus was referring , admin or Xb or maybe the disciples?//

          Jesus is talking to the disciples. They are the representative of the Church. The “You” in this passage is the Disciples of Jesus. As this is a prophecy of a distant future, it should be applied for the disciples of that time. John 17:20, Matthew 28:19,Mark 16:15-16)

          Please explain Matthew 16:28 (maybe cherrypicking/maybe not…judge for yourself)

          Also please explain Mathew 10:23

          //5. Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains
          For what??//
          To save their own lives from the attack

          So if the end times or the associated tribulation happen globally, why just mention “them which be in Judaea”?

          //6. So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
          34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

          Again similar question….Who is that “ye” Jesus was referring to? Who was “this generation” //

          This is regarding the same generation which will see the Sign of the Second Coming of the Lord.




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        7. @ brainwashed by atheism
          @ //This is why I agree with this atheist in issues like this..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEHZrpzMhN4 //

          I am petrified, terrified! My faith is shaken (haha!)
          The guy in link above says ” bible is not well organised book and he gives some reasons why he thinks so.”

          I think Bible is well organised. For example it begins by telling ” God made the world and he made it good (he saw that it was good – is repeated in Chapter 1. ” It then tells us that man made the wrong choice and the good world turned into one which inflicts thorns and briers (thorns as metaphor for pain: in-case your intelligence to understand is limited and you begin to rant like XB!) . Then God chooses one group of people and through them showed the world the inability of man to perform that which is good. Story of Israelites (OT) is evidence given to man, that by knowing Laws (external & internal morality), man cannot turn thorny world in paradise. Then came Jesus and began his mission of telling religious nuts that God wants change in state (from evil tree to good tree) and exposed the futility of human attempt to change their state into perfection by their obeying of Law. His death and the work done on cross were the only means to restore man back into paradise ( Jesus told thief – verily verily thou shalt be with me in paradise – Eden). His hands and legs were tied. He did nothing. His state was changed from evil to good tree, and he was counted worthy to enter eternal life – back to garden of Eden – symbol of painless world ). Thus Bible is wonderfully organised message of God. Sixty six books, written by different people in different ages, in different languages – all of them packed together to reveal meaning and coherence! Wonderful evidence of its supernatural origin.

          Reminds me of proverb which goes like this. People who don’t know how to dance, begin to say that the stage is titled. नाच न जाने आँगन टेडा!! Similarly people who are unable to perceive the big picture of message of Bible, rant that it is not a message of God.

          @//Isn’t it a shame that you guys don’t have a consensus on what the Bible actually says…//
          There are seventeen versions of atheism. http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=6487
          Isn’t it shame that you guys don’t have common consensus on what you people believe.

          There are different ways to treat a disease. Example allopathy, homeopathy, Ayurveda, Acupuncture, etc . Can we then say to doctors ” Shame on you as you guys don’t have consensus on how to treat a disease.”

          Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. ( Proverbs 26:4-5).

          Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces. ( Matthew 7:6).

          Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. ( Prov 23:9).




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        8. This guy Hemat Mehta just churns out Videos. Try refuting him, he does not reply( I have done it few times)..What kind of conversation does he wants to have? I guess he does the same like the TPM Pastors…ONLY ONE WAY…




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        9. @admin…Doesn’t everyone has their own agenda…TPM, fromtpm.com , RC, anything for that matter? That’s why I personally like to stay away from such conversations as much as possible…The closest thing to perceivable objective truths beyond the scope of “beliefs” are scientific facts based on re-verifiable experimental data( again its just my view)…I don’t think a sane person will refute if anyone says that if I take a knife and cut my hand blood will come out coz its perceivable objective truth which applies to every living human being….but matters like beliefs are not scientifically verifiable and is taken on “faith” and I don’t see the logic in arguing whether one’s faith is better than the other , except to maybe feel good about oneself or in my case get a kick out of trying to relax from a day’s work by having a non scientific brain exercise…




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        10. Well, We have worded our Agenda in the “About us” section. Not sure why you want to make it sound that we are in a One Way Traffic lane. Have we not opened the comments columns and in all sincerity listening to people like you?




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        11. I didn’t say or mean to say that fromtpm.com is a one way lane coz it really is not…and I appreciate that attitude coz healthy, decent conversations like these are hallmarks of civilized societies..

          //Have we not opened the comments columns and in all sincerity listening to people like you?//

          Yes you have, when did I say you haven’t?

          Also i would like to add that i really appreciate the quality and quantity of the contents of this site…This site is something I wish had happened in my life earlier..but better late than never…this site has helped me a great deal in navigating my mind out of vicious debilitating indoctrination…




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        12. @ brainwashed by atheism

          whatever dude…you are entitled to your opinion/judgement

          //I am petrified, terrified! My faith is shaken (haha!)//
          Rofl…

          //(thorns as metaphor for pain: in-case your intelligence to understand is limited and you begin to rant like XB!)//
          I wish I had an intelligence that is not limited, maybe akin to yours Mr. Nath…..I wonder why God won’t be gracious on me as he was on you…

          //People who don’t know how to dance, begin to say that the stage is titled// also maybe the story of the fox and the sour grapes…

          //@//Isn’t it a shame that you guys don’t have a consensus on what the Bible actually says…//
          There are seventeen versions of atheism. http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=6487
          Isn’t it shame that you guys don’t have common consensus on what you people believe.//

          Thanks for the info, I would not read it coz not only does it not pique my interests but I also don’t need an article to convince myself that people have different viewpoints on any topic….even among atheists there are crazy “fundamentalists”…that’s the beauty of being a human, we are all different and have different opinions but try to live as a peaceful society to the best of our abilities…..and by saying shame on you ( and I apologize if that was offensive) I was trying to point to those people who feels that others with varying opinions are somehow wrong….again this point can get very philosophically convoluted because by doing that I am doing the same thing which I myself am accusing you of doing and it goes in an infinite loop….but again apologies on the shame on you remark….

          All i am wondering is why on earth (or universe or maybe beyond that) would God be punishing/bothered about/care about inferior mortals for having different opinions on issues as silly as when God is coming back or whether God is coming back or not??

          //There are different ways to treat a disease. Example allopathy, homeopathy, Ayurveda, Acupuncture, etc . Can we then say to doctors ” Shame on you as you guys don’t have consensus on how to treat a disease.”//

          No, I won’t say that to a doctor…I would only go to a doctor I like to go to….but your analogy is kinda misplaced…on what basis does you, let’s say the allopathy believer (non TPM guy) judge the homeopathy believer (let’s say the TPM person/ Catholic/Hindu or whatver) as wrong? Isn’t that arrogance to think that you only have the truth and all others are somehow “lost”…?Just wondering….

          Also why do you always want to assume everybody have a “Disease”…??? Hypochondriac much?

          // Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. ( Proverbs 26:4-5).

          Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces. ( Matthew 7:6).

          Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. ( Prov 23:9).///

          I really don’t understand how those verses fit into this conversation rather than your attempt to somehow show off your ability to quote Bible verses and somehow “accuse” the other person as being inferior to your level of faith or bible verse knowledge or whatever…..your TPM past might have helped you in that….

          Also I don’t understand the logic in you posting those verses right after you did the exact opposite of what you intended to convey via those verses…




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        13. @ Two analogies which I used as response to your – calling admin to be ashamed of different viewpoints, which Christians have on eschatology.

          1st analogy was of different versions of atheism and 2nd analogy was of different view point of treating a disease. Both these analogies were meant to highlight the fact that, It is wrong to ask someone to be ashamed of his belief system just because somebody else is having another viewpoint on the same (amillennial, preterits, Post tribulation, etc). (agnostic atheism, gnostic, naturalism, etc )

          Let me simplify: You cannot call medical fraternity to be ashamed of, just because there is another doctor who believes he has another way of treating the same disease. Its between doctors to come together on common platform and discuss what is the best way. And if they choose not, patient still has his right to decide which treatment he thinks he is more beneficial to him. Therefore instead of calling medical fraternity to be ashamed, you raise your own opinion in non violent way and try to focus on content rather than calling others by name or calling other to be ashamed of something.

          @ // All i am wondering is why on earth (or universe or maybe beyond that) would God be punishing/bothered about/care about inferior mortals for having different opinions on issues as silly as when God is coming back or whether God is coming back or not??//

          I do think God that God is much bothered about that. My assumption is that he primarily is concerned for mankind to be restored to the original state ( for painless world – denoted by metaphor of garden – there shall be no more tears). I

          @ // Isn’t that arrogance to think that you (non TPM) only have the truth and all others are somehow “lost”…?Just wondering…//
          I would call it arrogance if one is predetermined to not to listen what other has to offer. And that arrogance might cost him if the person happens to be right eventually.

          @.Also why do you always want to assume everybody have a “Disease”…??? Hypochondriac much?
          Brief a little more, I am not sure I understood your point.




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        14. Agreed …per that logic if the tpm doctor says pre trib is the right medicine why would one say it’s not …or is it just a marketing game b/w different doctors??

          By disease I mean the assumption/belief that human beings are sinners from birth and continue to be flawed/lost until they take the medicine the doctors prescribe from.a manual which apparently God himself revealed to these doctors ??




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        15. Reasons why we believe pretrib rapture medicine is not right are shared via website to be discussed (Scriptures being the basis). I have elsewhere declared I do not feel proficient in knowledge in discussing eschatology. But I do have my views and I more of amillennial POV. If our medicine is wrong, we are ready to accept. For us this is not money game unlike it is for TPM.

          @ disease
          Yes that’s what the scripture says and that sounds most logical. I’ll try to express my understanding of the same. Regarding scriptural support of the same I assume you know those scriptures which inform us that we are sinners by birth.

          Imagine there is only person in world. What is right and what is wrong for him? I think nothing! He is free to do whatever he wishes. I don’t think God will be at all worried what the single person on earth would do. God will only interfere if he makes any harm to the world that God has created. Cause he is the owner/governor of the world, and he wants all his creation to live peacefully in joy. If someone is making trouble or if someone is nuisance then it is his responsibility to bring it into check. And he will ensure it according to his time (I presume).

          Right and wrong will come into play only when there is more than one person in world. In this case right and wrong will become relative. According to God right things will be those actions that do not produce any deformation and pain in his creation. It will be his perspective of right and wrong. Two other persons will have there perspective of what is wrong and what is right. Morality becomes relative here (in case of more than one person on earth). And that is the present problem. It is not necessary that God and two persons will always agree on what is right. Each one will define good and evil from his own perspective. God might say, I will make law for both of you, but who knows whether the two persons internally agree with God’s laws. They might say, what is wrong in worshipping idol? Why is that law? This might bring enmity and clashes. Right for one might become wrong for another.

          Let me give another example. Let us say that we have a boy name Raju who is at age of marriage. He wants to marry his long time girlfriend Rani. This is good thing according to his own perspective to marry Rani. But Rani does not want to marry Raju. She thinks it is not good. Her perspective of right and wrong is different from Raju. Let us make the case complicated. We will bring choices of Raju’s parents in this little game. Raju’s father thinks Raju must not marry but become RC monk. That will be good according to Raju’s fathers thinking. Again we have Raju’s mother, wanting Raju to marry his relatives daughter. Conclusion: What do we observe? We see that each individual is having autonomy to define good and evil. Good according to one is emotionally hurtful for another. How will you control this situation? How will you make all the members in this system happy. Somebody has to sacrifice his version of goodness. Someone will become unhappy. There is no other solution except only one that bible tells. I bet you find and provide one!

          This is the same condition with the world. This world is very very complex made up of millions of conflicting choices. Each one walks according to his own judgement of what he thinks is good. External laws help in control the mess little, but unfortunately they don’t help when our desires are very intense. During those moments our desires make us care little about external laws. In short, all are affected by this ability that we all have to autonomously decide for ourselves, what is good and evil. We have no control on our desires of what we like and what we not. When did we inherit this disease that has taken peace from this world? Because thou hast possessed of the fruit, earth is cursed for thy sake!

          What is the solution (Raju Rani example)? I think the only solution is that somehow magically they all must have one view of what is good. They all should unite and the unity should be such that they all must consider unanimously, without external force, from internally voice, to one decision. It is only possible when Raju is Rani and Rani is Rajus’s Father and Raju’s mother is Rani. Each personality though distinct must each be united, in such a way as if one is another. Remember what Jesus said, – He who has seen me has seen God. I and my Father are one! Unity in trinity.

          Consider another example. You might be knowing that there are various typologies in computer network system. There is bus topology, star, ring etc. The best topology is star. All other topology dose not work! Why only start works? Because there is central server which regulates the decisions of each computer in star network. There is never a collision of data through cables in centrally governed star topology network. However, if each computer became autonomous, then possibility might arise that two computers might send their respective data at the same time, resulting in collision. That is why our present system of internet network works flawlessly in a topology, where central server controls decisions of each system in network. If you take control away from central server or Router, then entire network will collapse. Imagine the same with human beings. There has to be central server. System cannot work together remaining autonomous. But the issue is that humans have lost connection with central server.

          Consider another example of robots. Imagine science is able to create robots with Artificial Intelligence, who would be capable to autonomously take decisions, without human control. See movie enthiran (rajnikant) to understand what would become of world if we gave autonomy to powerful robots. The only difference in the movie and real world is that in the movie Rajnikanth made AI robot that became autonomous and In the real world God created AI human beings who became autonomous.

          In short the disease that we all are inflicted right from our birth is our independence and separation from God. God told mankind the day ye shall possess (eat) that knowledge , that very day you shall die (be separated from source of life). World became alienated from God. Jesus reconciled us back to God by his death on cross. Paul says once we were alienated form God and enemy to God. But thanks be to God! We are now said to be one body, with Christ as head. This may not be perceive-able with our minds, but one day we all will be united in God in such a way that if A is good for me, then A will be good in your sight also. Somehow God will be our head. Some how, no one will force us by externally expressing what is good according to him in violence to ourselves. We will all know internally & unanimously what is good for each of us with respect to others.

          So, what is the disease? Answer: Falling short from that state in which we were created (Sin=missing the mark). Being separated from God (God’s glory dwelt in us). Mankind aftermath of sin, was born in image of Adam (Gen 5:1-3). Unless we are united back to God (image of God), until then we all will have different versions of good and evil, that might at one time or another, be problematic for another. That is what bible says (I assume. I may be wrong!).

          I know it is difficult to comprehend, how that unity is possible, in such a way that all of us think unanimously what is good and what is evil. May be because of Spirit of God dwelling in each one of us. We all give good fruits not because of external law, but because internally Christ dwells in us. I trust it will become clear in eternity. No wonder Jesus said, love thy neighbour as thyself is second greatest commandment. There ought to be unity with neighbour as though he is part of my own body. LOVE AS THYSELF! Hence Paul says, Christ is the head of body of church. He also said, Father as we are ONE I pray let them be ONE in us. Jesus said, take eat my body and drink my blood. All are metaphors pointing to singular truth, – provided we understand it! I think this is mystery of unity in trinity. Three persons in godhead all think unanimously the same decision. See this idea expressed here in this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf11rReeWIs and this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGSu5ymf8wY

          Warning: Cults like TPM try to take place of God (Rev 17:11). They try to control the church. They externally try to impose their version of what is wrong/right without internally changing our priorities or uniting with us. They cannot do this as they are humans. Only Spirit of God , of which we are temple can bring the good works in us, for which he hath prepared us from the beginning of the world.




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        16. @ Nath wow man I really appreciate you taking such effort into writing such a lengthy response, although most of what you wrote didn’t make any sense to me…What I understood( correct me if I am wrong) from your answer was this….

          1. If there was only one person in the world, there would not be any right or wrong
          “Right and wrong will come into play only when there is more than one person in world”

          I totally disagree based on my understanding of what sin is. Let’s say only Adam was there and God told him not to eat the fruit…Cannot he disobey and thus sin???
          Also in the future heaven (which every Christian is aiming for ), there will be (hopefully) more than one person and do you think what you just told still applies?? If no, why not?

          If the future heaven is a place where there is no sin and everything is going to be all perfect, why not have such a system right from the beginning? What does God lose by having such a system right from the beginning?




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        17. To be honest I struggle with that question coz my concept of right and wrong has mostly been defined by my Christian upbringing( and TPM was a main part of it)…that being said this is what I think..

          For me right is anything that helps advance one’s life, liberty, equality, happiness, prosperity , wellness, etc without infringing upon the right of the fellow human beings’ to experience the same and wrong is anything that violates the above definition.

          That definition is flawed coz one might ask why should my standard of right and wrong be the standard for all. As you said earlier, since humans are different in many ways, their definitions of happiness, equality, liberty, prosperity, wellness etc are different and that leads to bedlam..

          That’s one reason I stick onto the concept of God coz yea as you said if you posit God as this absolute reference point for what is right, then yea it makes sense to define everything based on that.

          But that doesn’t fully solve the problem coz of dilemmas like Euthyphro’s Dilemma…




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        18. @xb, because Anderson is a cultic KJV onlyist, a heretic and a hateful bigot who has no clue about the gospel while Washer is as real as they come, an exemplary teacher and follower of Christ.




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        19. @Richard…what’s your point? I am not the one who posted Anderson’s video to support post trib….didn’t you notice the video links I posted about Anderson’s crazy rants?? I don’t care about Paul Washer or Anderson….




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    1. If by atheist you meant me, I am sorry to say that your assumption was wrong and would like to politely tell you not to judge people you don’t know…If you referred to Hemanth Mehta or Bill Maher, I will say your “wondering why would an atheist be interested in Eschatology or TPM for that matter.” doesn’t seem like a very logical question because both of us can safely assume that those guys won’t know anything about TPM coz yea TPM is not a big player in the International Christian terrain…I don’t know if they would be “interested” in Eschatology…maybe they are interested to learn it so that they can feel they are learned enough to state their opinions in opposition to “believers”….I don’t know you have to ask them personally if you so wish…:)




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  2. Dear All,

    Just writing my thought.

    Does it really matter that the Lord will come silently or with a great voice of the trumpet.

    I think the most important hope is whether I will be with the Lord or not. That the race we are running for. Our eternal hope is to be with the Lord how and when does it really matter.

    Dear admin your Canada example was good but the difference here is we have not been promised by a fraudster but our Lord Jesus Christ who promised that heaven and earth shall pass away but My word will not pass away. Let us hope in that promise and fight the good fight and finish the race. If we meet death before our Lord Comes still we have a hope and if He comes during our lifetime we should be found worthy and stand in front of Lord without being ashamed.

    He that will come will come and will not tarry.

    God Bless




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    1. Dear Ordinary Believer,
      The Positioning of the Rapture does matter a lot. I guess one person who understood the gravity of tribulation is the “I Love Jesus” Brother.
      It matters a LOT for people in this modern age. Why do you think Jesus uttered that word in Matt 24:21 . “For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now–and never to be equaled again.”
      I can tell you that it is Beyond the imagination of many couch potatoes of our Modern age. If we are not prepared, You are just preparing to Fail. God willing I plan to put an article on the danger of believing the wrong way. Satan knows it much better than all of us.




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      1. Yes brother

        I am open to all kinds of corrections. In life it is very important to learn and know.

        Looking forward for your posts.

        God Bless




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      2. Although I agree that soteriology is more important than eschatology, yet this does not mean eschatology is to be ignored. Admin is very right in perceiving the danger of secret rapture theory . Let me put forth two possible cases.
        1) Case A: Suppose secret rapture theory is right (i don’t believe) . What will happen? God will take couch potatoes up.
        2) Case B: Secret rapture theory is false. What will happen ? Those who think God is not cruel to let me in hands of Antichrist, will suddenly be shocked to see tribulation. They will be troubled, will loose all hope and their faith will shake to extent of irreparable damage . Early Church in comparison to modern were prepared by true apostles to face persecution. They preached and taught, ” We must through much tribulation enter kingdom of God.” Unlike modern prosperity preachers (Tpm included,) early church were not fed with promise of carnal blessings. What do you want ? God will provide you all that you want in this world. This is what Pentecostals prepare churches for. What will be the output? Demolishment of faith.




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    2. Yes,so true.He might come now.He might come during our grandkids time.Jesus said He will come and Father will decide.My opinion is lets be prepared than thinking we have time and speculate.And it isnt a bit easy.I believe in the saving grace of our Lord.But faith without actions is dead.Thats all.The disciples and early church fathers were waiting too.There were heretics those days too.




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      1. Brother,
        If it was just a secret coming vs Public Coming, I would not have even written one article. Please read the rest in the series and you will know what will happen to the people who are fed with TPM Doctrines. I am sure, if TPM People continue to believe the TPM Eschatology, they have almost no chance to escape.
        Refuting of “Secret Coming” is the key to unlock some dangers that lie ahead of TPM hard nuts.




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      2. Dear Brother,

        Please do not miss out on the broader context…. In my opinion, this article is very helpful for a sincere child of God to read with neutrality and decide for himself.

        We have been fooled by historians who taught Christianity to the masses…

        You may choose to follow your own convictions, but this article helps articulate many thoughts that never crossed the minds of most Christians.

        The coming of the Lord as a topic can become a deception if we do not allow introspection using God given Bible tools and studies.

        One thing is sure, if we are less careful- we can become very complacent.

        I conclude with the hope that God will help open our eyes to see light in His light.

        Thank you Admin- for the article.




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    3. Dear Ordinary believer,

      I think that you have missed the analogy in the “Canada example”. While it is the Canadian government which promises the visa for the deserving, it is these fraudsters, who pose as the agents, con the people their money . Similarly, just as you have said, we are also promised by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But going to the scammers who act as the agents to heaven lead many to their eternal destruction. I believe that the admin was trying to express this through the example.

      God bless.

      Maranatha!




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  3. It doesn’t matter when he comes,
    But definitely he will come.
    The question is are we prepared,
    Coz our death may come any time, there is no garuntee that we may get up the next day, or even return home when u go out,
    Or even beheaded by an Antichrist,
    It’s better to be prepared, any time we can expect,

    Just make sure to go when he comes,
    Read the Bible with out TPM lens,
    Even still they believe being a member of TPM will take them to heaven or atleast a
    Lower levels on heaven,

    God bless you all.




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  4. @XB (sorry this post might also be longer. I lack ability to present things concisely).

    As far as i understand Euthyphro’s dilemma, It asks, “Is smoething good because of its intrinsic worth or because the God assigned worth to it.” I dont think God randomly calls anything good or evil out of thin air. It has to have intrinsic worth. Assignment of worth (good/evil, right/wrong) requires intelligence and reasoning. Everytime you deicde or call something right or wrong, you do it based upon reasoning. Some processing/calculation occurs in our minds and we call it good or evil based upon that reasonings. Ill try to explain.

    1) Is murder evil? 
    a) God’s perspective – yes it is evil. 
    Why ? Becaue it has harmed God’s creation. 

    b) General human perspective – yes it is.
    Why? What is the reasonings that took place in our brains which made us come on this decision that murder is evil? Answer because it has hurt and caused pain to someone and someones family.

    c) Some Terrorist – no murder of Kaphir (non-muslim) is not evil because accoprding to terrorist he who does not worship their god is evil and such evil men have no right to live on earth. 

    So we have seen above, three perspective and three reasonings in calling something evil or good. First perspective was of God, Second perspective was of general sensible humanity and third perspective is of terrorist. All three have assigned one of the moral values out of two options (good or evil), based on the reasonings their minds have done. Who is right? Well! generally speaking God and general sensible humanity is right and terrorist is wrong. But terrorist might not agree. What am i trying to say? Murder is just one example. There are millions of decisions which we occurs throughout our lives everyday within seconds to decided good/evil,right/wrong, profitable/unprofitable etc. It is impossible to have fixed laws for every of those million choices we make.

    God cannot give fixed laws for everything of those million choices we face. You must use your intelligence to decide.

    There are many occasions where our choices contradict others. Consider my earlier example of Raju’s marriage of Rani. For Raju his choice to marry Rani is right, but Rani might make altogether another choice.

    So my point is that somehow supernaturally God has to consciously be present within Raju and Rani to make same choice, so that no one is hurt. If God shows this choice externally it will be called as Law. But if Raju and Rani are united in God, in some supernatural way, then choice of Raju and Rani will be centrally consciously be taken in united way so as to not hurt another party. This is what happened when world was alienated in Adam. Each of us gained autonomy to make choices. However post baptism, we being temple of Holy Spirit somehow get so united to each other, that we all make consciously same choices which do not conflict or cause hurt or pain to others. This is different from God externaly showing us what is right ? I am talking about internal conscious based unity to make non conflicting choices. That is why alienation is problem and external law cannot be solution. Only solution is restoring the unity back which Adam enjoyed before his fall.




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  5. // I dont think God randomly calls anything good or evil out of thin air. It has to have intrinsic worth.//

    Since everything that is in this universe was created by God, why shouldn’t everything have intrinsic worth?

    //1) Is murder evil?
    a) God’s perspective – yes it is evil.
    Why ? Becaue it has harmed God’s creation. .//

    Then what exactly is this…https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people

    //b) General human perspective – yes it is.
    Why? What is the reasonings that took place in our brains which made us come on this decision that murder is evil? Answer because it has hurt and caused pain to someone and someones family.//

    //c) Some Terrorist – no murder of Kaphir (non-muslim) is not evil because accoprding to terrorist he who does not worship their god is evil and such evil men have no right to live on earth. //

    The only issue I have with this sentence is your default assumption that only people of muslim faith can be terrorists, but since that doesn’t directly affect our topic, I’ll leave it there.

    //What am i trying to say? Murder is just one example. There are millions of decisions which we occurs throughout our lives everyday within seconds to decided good/evil,right/wrong, profitable/unprofitable etc. It is impossible to have fixed laws for every of those million choices we make.//

    Ok agreed..

    //God cannot give fixed laws for everything of those million choices we face. You must use your intelligence to decide.//

    Agreed

    // This is what happened when world was alienated in Adam. Each of us gained autonomy to make choices.’ //

    Really? I thought the reason why he fell was because of his exercise of the freedom of “choice”

    // However post baptism, we being temple of Holy Spirit somehow get so united to each other, that we all make consciously same choices which do not conflict or cause hurt or pain to others. //

    Thats a very weak reasoning…its not just Christians that are “united to each other”, infact this site is one good example of how Christians aren’t united…

    //This is different from God externaly showing us what is right ? I am talking about internal conscious based unity to make non conflicting choices. That is why alienation is problem and external law cannot be solution. Only solution is restoring the unity back which Adam enjoyed before his fall.//

    Most of what you said above, including this passage abouve went above my head, maybe because Iam too dumb or maybe the reasonings you gave were dumn..




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    1. I have observed that you have this habit of dissecting every statement without trying to understand the overview understanding or big picture what the speech in its entirety is about. Well here is the one in simple consice way.

      ” That day ye shall know I am in Father, ye in me and I in you. (John 14:20) ”

      Hope this doesn’t go above your head.




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  6. @admin

    I remember some time before in your reply ( in this article and the previous related article ) to few of my comments (regarding Daniels 70Week ) you mentioned these : ( I am not able to reply to the those
    comments directly now as i dont see a REPLY option right under them )

    (In this article comment )
    ///I had already addressed these in the other clarification…I am not able to understand your concern here..HOW IS TRIBULATION anyway connected to Daniel 9:24 70 Weeks? ///

    (In the one previous article comment )
    ////There is no reason to assume that the Last week was left out to be fulfilled in some time in distant future(after 2000 years) even after the completion of Dan 9:24 for which the 70 weeks were determined. The Scripture does not support such a break.
    BTW. It is a common mistake to add “Tribulation” to the Daniel weeks. Do you see any such additions in Daniel? Then how come people add a “TRIBULATION” to the Daniel Weeks?///

    ==> I was just reading a book named ” The Final Triumph ” authored by Bro Zac .

    He mentions in Chapter 11, that the mentioned “prince” in Daniel 9:26 is AntiChrist’
    Also he hints there is a connection between 70 weeks and last 7years , that last 1 week in 70 week is 7 years before Second Coming of Jesus , which is after a long break.

    The passage in that book reads like this ….

    *****”This still leaves a 7-year period out of the 490 years mentioned originally. That is spoken of in Daniel 9:27: “He (the Antichrist) will make a firm covenant with the many (referring to the Jews) for seven (years).” That is the final 7 year period. The Antichrist will present himself to the Jews as their Messiah and the Jews will accept him.

    Daniel 9:27 goes on to say,
    In the middle of the week, he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wings of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.
    At the middle of this 7-year period (after 42 months), the Antichrist will break his covenant with the Jews. During the remaining 42-months (1260 days) the Antichrist will reign (see Revelation 11:2, 3). It is significant that the reign of the Antichrist is going to be for exactly the same duration as the public ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ which was also for 3½ years. The Antichrist is going to imitate Christ in every possible way.
    The abomination of desolation mentioned here is what Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:15, and is a reference to the Antichrist sitting in the temple as God. At the end of that period, it says here that the Antichrist will be ‘destroyed completely’. ‘
    ***********

    Thought of sharing with you as I myself found its a good reading …




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    1. Brother,
      The indentation is put at max level 4. Therefore, you are not in a position to reply a comment after 4 indents. For that, you may click on the reply button the earlier indent and reply it addressing to the person by name.


      Now concerning the Book by Zac. I have not read it but the sentences give away some points which show that Zac Misunderstood it. In fact, I too understood that passage like him earlier. Please bear in mind that either by my understanding or his, still the Rapture is Post Trib. I know Zac also is a Post Trib Proponent.
      Let me tell you what is the issue I found with the above sentence of Zac.
      //*****”This still leaves a 7-year period out of the 490 years mentioned originally. That is spoken of in Daniel 9:27: “He (the Antichrist) will make a firm covenant with the many (referring to the Jews) for seven (years).” That is the final 7 year period. The Antichrist will present himself to the Jews as their Messiah and the Jews will accept him.//

      Please note the highlighted part. Does the Bible say that He will make a Firm Covenant? In my Bible, it says, he will make the Covenant Firm. or Confirm the Covenant. It means the Covenant is already existing. That individual CONFIRMS the existing one. Moreover, Covenants are HOLY bindings, unlike the commercial CONTRACT or AGREEMENTS.
      Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

      Moreover as mentioned earlier, the 69th week has CLEARLY crossed and it is imperative that we have to twist the text to say that after 69 the 70th did not occur.
      Dan 9:26 says And AFTER threescore and two weeks, shall Messiah be slain,
      So now You will have to identify this particular week as which week? the text says 69 is completed and in the NEXT WEEK TO 69 messiah was slain in the middle of the week.
      How would you escape the fact that AFTER 69 there was no 70 and say that there was a week which was not the 70th but some weird week Messiah was slain? 🙂
      I hope you understood my point.

      Jesus was Crucified in Week 69, 70 or Week X?
      I say it is 70 because 69 was crossed as per Dan 9:26, If it is not 70, can you please name the week in which Jesus was Crucified?




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      1. ///Does the Bible say that He will make a Firm Covenant? ///
        While some of the Bible translations says “he will confirm covenant” , many other translations do say “He shall make a firm ( strong ) covenant ” .




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        1. Discussed with my Hebrew Teacher. He says it means “Making it Stronger/Firmer”. It does not give any indication that it is a new covenant.




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  7. @Admin,
    Sorry Brother few doubts more 🙁
    Dan 9:27 “HE shall confirm the COVENANT with many for ONE WEEK ”

    Is the HE referred to Jesus Christ /Messiah ? What could be the COVENANT which is made confirm ?




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    1. Though the Name of the Covenant is not mentioned in Daniel, it’s reasonable to agree that it was the same Abrahamic covenant which was also explained in Mosaic and Davidic Covenant.(Matthew 5:17, Galatians 3:15-29)

      Abrahamic Covenant (Genesis 12:1-3, 6-7; 13:14-17; 15; 17:1-14; 22:15-18). In this covenant, God promised many things to Abraham. He personally promised that He would make Abraham’s name great (Genesis 12:2), that Abraham would have numerous physical descendants (Genesis 13:16), and that he would be the father of a multitude of nations (Genesis 17:4-5). God also made promises regarding a nation called Israel. In fact, the geographical boundaries of the Abrahamic Covenant are laid out on more than one occasion in the book of Genesis (12:7; 13:14-15; 15:18-21). Another provision in the Abrahamic Covenant is that the families of the world will be blessed through the physical line of Abraham (Genesis 12:3; 22:18). This is a reference to the Messiah, who would come from the line of Abraham.

      Mosaic Covenant (Deuteronomy 11; et al.). The Mosaic Covenant was a conditional covenant that either brought God’s direct blessing for obedience or God’s direct cursing for disobedience upon the nation of Israel. Part of the Mosaic Covenant was the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20) and the rest of the Law, which contained over 600 commands—roughly 300 positive and 300 negatives. The history books of the Old Testament (Joshua–Esther) detail how Israel succeeded at obeying the Law or how Israel failed miserably at obeying the Law. Deuteronomy 11:26-28 details the blessing/cursing motif.

      Davidic Covenant (2 Samuel 7:8-16). The Davidic Covenant amplifies the “seed” aspect of the Abrahamic Covenant. The promises to David in this passage are significant. God promised that David’s lineage would last forever and that his kingdom would never pass away permanently (verse 16). Obviously, the Davidic throne has not been in place at all times. There will be a time, however, when someone from the line of David will again sit on the throne and rule as king. This future king is Jesus (Luke 1:32-33).




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        1. Remember this is a prophecy especially for Jerusalem. And One week was pending of the 70. A covenant holds good only if both the parties agree to it. Jesus was Representing the Covenant on Behalf of God and The Jewish leaders were representing it on behalf of Israel. The Protection and the Blessing of God departed from them when they rejected the Messiah(Rom 11) who is the Seed of Abraham and Seed of David.

          We know there was one week remaining as per Dan 9:24 for your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

          Remember Dan 9:24 was focussing on Jerusalem. Hence the comment of Jesus in Matt 23:38 for Jerusalem. That is the significance of that ONE WEEK and as a result, a new covenant was established to get in the Gentiles to be drafted along with the Olive/Israel of God (Gal 6:16).

          New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34). The New Covenant is a covenant made first with the nation of Israel and, ultimately, with all mankind. In the New Covenant, God promises to forgive sin, and there will be a universal knowledge of the Lord. Jesus Christ came to fulfill the Law of Moses (Matthew 5:17) and create a new covenant between God and His people. Now that we are under the New Covenant, both Jews and Gentiles can be free from the penalty of the Law. We are now given the opportunity to receive salvation as a free gift (Ephesians 2:8-9).




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