Information flow scares cults. TPM is no different from the others in this cult league. They would go to any extent to make their mess look like a defaming exercise by an enemy. They indulge in theocratic warfare to cover-up their stink. Theocratic Warfare is a terminology commonly used in Jehovah’s Witnesses Circle. However, this technique is employed in different cults and religions including TPM. In Islam, this same thing is called Taqiyya. In short, it is “Lying to cover up the truth“.
In TPM, it is justified to lie and feign ignorance to cover up for the Organization. Truth takes a back seat when their Holy Cow(TPM Organization) is in the focus. Their ignorant believers are blinded in such a way that they will ignore the obvious even when seen in broad daylight.
This is not a new technique in TPM. It has been employed for many years as far as I can recollect. When we were teenagers in TPM and worker sisters used to visit our home, my mom would inquire about various TPM ministers she knew. Once in a while, these sisters would say that the said minister has moved SOUTH. So as we were in North India, we would assume that the said minister had been transferred to some South Indian Centre. It was later only understood by us that their “SOUTH GOING” actually meant that the person left the Ministry. Remember, that we were quite a good family and my dad used to pay them the monthly tithe faithfully. However, they never considered us as a part of them. They wanted our money but not us. Over the years, TPM has not changed a bit. Rather they have become more controlling of their information flow. They know these pieces of information will create huge dents into their false propagation of being Apostles and Saints perfecting the Church of Christ.
They claim to dwell in Zion but has no truth Within.
O LORD, who may abide in Your tent? Who may dwell on Your holy hill (ZION)? The one whose walk is blameless, who does what is righteous, who speaks the truth from their heart;
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. Revelation 14:5
The Mind Control
These TPM Ministers who indulge in the Theocratic Warfare(propagating lies) are totally deceived by their leaders and the environment they are in. They are convinced that any disrepute to TPM is a disrepute to Jesus Christ. This is because they also think that the Organization of TPM is THE CHURCH OF GOD. We all know, their teaching says that all other Christian Denominations are false systems which do not teach the Doctrine of Perfection as intended by God.
while evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13
I have been asking my local ministers about certain incidents which have been happening in TPM since few months. Of course, they are of the opinion that I am an innocent brainwashed believer who believes all their sermons and is a controlled person. They told me that Kanagaraj died of a heart attack. When asked further, he wanted to change the topic and take me to a different direction. Similarly, the believers are made to believe that there is a malicious attack on Pastor Sunny by devious people. Hence he has been transferred to Trichur for lesser visibility to avoid attacks.
Recently there was a commentator by name RG who launched a tirade against this website and was very upset with the exposure of Pastor Sunny’s adventures. I could not help but note one important thing which he was repeating. He was upset that we were EXPOSING TPM. He was not upset that such a thing has happened in TPM. But his problem was with us telling it as it is.
Why Can’t TPM Stand the Truth?
This is a question which many people fail to ask. I would like to proclaim the reason for this phenomenon. Its so Simple but people have a tough time accepting it.
Answer: Because TPM stands for and promotes Lies
Just as Darkness cannot stand Light, So is the case with Lies. Lies cannot stand the Truth. We are putting just Plain truth on this website. People who love the truth has been accepting it since we began it.
They need not Fear if they have the Truth. They should be able to stand any scrutiny knowing they are on the right side.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it.
TPM leadership Fear People thinking for themselves. Therefore, they want to block out all sources of information which will make them think other than the official line of teaching. TPM Believers are programmed in such a way that they feel guilty of knowing anything different from what the clergy says. They are forbidden to think for themselves when it comes to their spirituality but must blindly accept anything the organization teaches.
They know that an INFORMED TPMer will soon become and EX-TPMer.
The Internet represents freedom of information. When TPMers read anything other than the propaganda TPM puts out, they can see truthful gaping holes in their theology. In other words, the Leadership has learned that almost every time any TPMer begins to cross-examine the organizational doctrines(presented as deeper truths), their speed of departure is directly proportionate to their personal honesty towards the facts of history.
Dear Reader,
Its time to face the facts. Admit and deal with the truth, even if it hurts. Don’t run away from it. By doing so, you are just deceiving yourselves.
Dear Admin,
Its time to face the facts (While you and your team hide behind the cloak). Admit and deal with the truth, even if it hurts (while you are refusing to reveal your names). Don’t run away from it (running away from revealing the names).
By doing so, you are just deceiving yourselves. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
RG, Thank you for showing time and again that you have no answers based on scripture. Who are comments like these benefiting? I’m sorry but you sound really immature. We have an article here that shows how TPM lies and lies to preserve their name from getting tarnished and the article has ample scripture to show the hypocrisy of TPM in light of scripture and your response is “hahahaha”? This really shows the level of scriptural knowledge in TPM.
Dear Richie,
You are just barking without any reason. How does it matter for you if we reveal our name? Will the things mentioned in the website be seen differently?
Will it matter to you if I say my name is Raymond? or Nainan? It will not. So stop worrying about the names and discuss the content.
Brothers, There’s no point in asking RG to discuss the content. We’ve seen enough of his barking and keep repeating “why are you pulling only TPM and not other churches” when this site clearly is unmasking the TPM mask. Either he doesnt understand English or a paid / patted troll by TPM to bother us. Best way is to ignore him. There’s enough warning content already in this site for people like him to ponder and save their souls.
Dear RG,
You are grossly misinformed. Let me tell you something. Go and research the meaning of a fanatic in the English dictionary. Yup, that’s you. The purpose of our brain, our education and our well developed understanding is that we do not accept anything blindly. Here’s where people like you have gone wrong. You think that justifying something that is already corrupt and standing for something that is already a lost cause is like being a martyr, like enduring tribulations and trials for Christ. If you think this then you’re the furthest person from the truth. If you believe that God created you with a sane mind and soul then please for the love of God, stop thinking that you and your church is the only holy congregation on this green earth. You are as close to God as the person sitting right next to you and worshipping idols. Use your head, open your eyes, you are not the 144,000. You are not the ultimate plan of God. You are nothing but a worm in the sight of the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God. You have no bragging rights. You are nothing. Instead of standing up for an organization that is capitalizing its victims, stand up for the God that is the author and finisher of your faith. Stand up and cry for your family. Then maybe, just maybe… You might all be seen in his coming.
I’m a supporter of this site..but plzz don’t despise anyone by telling him that he is nothing…I,me,you n every human in this world ,everyone is nothing in front of our God
No offence plzz
Where in the bible it says that you need to expose the teachings of one church and not to expose the teachings of other churches which could have worse doctrines than the TPM?
You all seems to be writing these based on your prejudiced behaviour or for actions taken against you by TPM leaders.
The very fact that you all are doing this hiding behind the cloak of the devil proves that its wrong.
No where in the Bible its written than you should hide behind the cloak of darkness and do your dirty works similar to those which you all have mentioned in this site.
You want your works of darkness to be considered as Godly..
I am not worried about the TPM at this juncture but the moral and ethical behaviours of you people, who claim to be of the highest of Godliness.
RG, Denominations are man-made. I will defend scripture no matter which denomination preaches false doctrines. I have spoken against the false doctrines of the RCC. JW, Mormons for most of my life just as I do with TPM.
Now for some scripture,
“Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.” (Eph 5:11)
“But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!” (Gal 1:8-9)
“Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them. For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting.” (Romans 16:17-18)
Paul instructs Timothy. This is the instruction we follow as well. We are listing out the false doctrines of TPM and asking them not to teach them because they are unbiblical
“As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines, nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.” (1 Tim 1:3,4)
None of us claim to be anything more than sinners saved by grace through faith. All your arguments are not against us, but against scripture. The fact that you are not worried about murderers and homosexuals in TPM but are more worried about a website that critiques false doctrines in TPM tells me all that I need about you. Stop worshiping a man-made organization and start worshiping God.
I know you RG.
I feel that this RG knows nothing than evading the reality by hahahahah… And I really don’t wonder at his behaviour because I know that he is the product of an organization which mocks all other denomination. I still remember one (late) Pastor David Gnanaraj who found pleasure in making fun of other denominations & their pastors in almost all his messages. But this man was not morally right but made a big show of a great saint. In fact when he was just an elder in Delhi and because of some issues he was packed up from there overnight. When he was in Punjab as a Centre Pastor, he had some problem in both of his feet. So the feet needed to be cleaned anf the oil to be applied on them everyday. Even though there were so many brothers around him yet, he preferred one sister Ammini Nayakam(presently in Delhi centre) to do all these things. While cleaning he would pull up his lungie above the thigh level. When the allergy was below the knee level then what was the need to pull up the lungie to that level. When that sister is not a professional nurse and he had his own assistant brother then why he preferred her to do all the cleaning & oiling? But all these things were kept hidden because he was a centre pastor. In TPM, I feel that once one becomes a centre pastor, he has the license to do anything.
Now let me come back to RG. He is not worried about the wicked works practiced by the TPM ministers because of which the name of God is being blasphemed among the gentiles. But he is much anxious to know the real name of the fromtpm.com team. I suggest RG to make the TPM leaders agree to come on a common platform to discuss, then we all will come there & you can see us as much as you want.
I saw this (late) Pastor David Gnanaraj becoming angry many times while preaching. He used to get very angry on fellow workers while standing on pulpit and preaching. He had cynical pride “I am center Pastor” that he used to utter anywhere without thinking whether being a center Pastor means anything to person standing before or not.
One incident about him told to me by worker brother is like this. (Worker brother was laughing when he told me this). He said, Pastor David took few workers to Wagah Border in Punjab. Few military people began to take security check of pastor. Pastor David began to fight with them saying “Do you know who I am? I am Center Pastor…” Some brothers then handled the situation by telling Pastor David to let the military person do their security check saying you are center pastor of TPM but not for them. They’ll put you in lockup.
On another occasion workers were travelling via train and Pastor was with them. One passenger had occupied all the luggage space beneath the seat. Obviously it was wrong. One only needed to speak calmly or do some adjustment. But Pas David Gananraj started fighting with him. After lot of bullfighting in train Pastor David began to threaten the man by saying “Do you know who I am?, I am a center Pastor”.. Finally some brother managed to calm down Pastor David and take him away and talk calmly with passenger…
Brother,
Was this Pastor given to groping? I have quite noticed this behavior when young girls kneel before him, he would kind of feel around the whole head/forehead. But for the men (he knows they kneel at the other side), he would place his hands in the air and allow his assistant to settle it on the person’s head firmly.
I was disturbed much seeing this, because I had very high regards for him earlier.
@bro denzel
Haha…. I haven’t noticed his any such behaviour while he was in our centre, because in those days I was kid to notice all these things… I only remember I called him unjust partial for not giving me first price in preaching competition, hearing which he laughed…
I saw him again in convention only when I became youth… and his stories by a worker brother.
Bro,
Was this pastor blind- He passed away in 2013 in Bangalore? If yes, then I am speaking about him… If no, my sincere apologies for the mistaken identity.
Yes, he was Blind at the end and passed away in Bangalore. Click here to see his pic
Yes bro denzel! He became blind due to age! He was Punjab centre Pastor also. I met him in Punjab. A propaganda about him (I heard) was had gift of discernment of tounges. He used to hear those speaking in tongues (those joining tpm ministry) and conclude who is speaking in right tongues and who is in false tounges…I cannot validate about this….
Brother, this is a very common incident happening among these saints in their so called faith homes and its getting worse by the day. In overseas, it is even more stinking but they get away partly because they use different names for this church in different countries like new testament church in united states, new Zealand etc.; new covenant Pentecostal church in australia / pacific and so on.
Because of my work, I have visited / stationed in a lot of TPM centres in various countries and I’ve seen it all. Although I knew that TPM had very flawed and erroneous doctrines, I never used to believe and used to vehemently protest when I hear people say that some of these “saints” are immoral, sexual perverts etc., but I think God wanted to show it to me personally to make me believe.
One day around the end of last year because of children’s day program in which I was actively involved, I visited faith home to pick up my kids after children’s practice and this incharge brother’s laptop suddenly was playing funny/hanging often so he asked me to have a look and see if I can fix as I’m in that line of work (in overseas these TPM saints are so luxurious that they have macbook or high end windows laptops, not just one but 2-3 and one exclusively for the in charge pastor/brother and they have unlimited or excess GB internet access). And they never allow anyone to touch their laptops.
I never used to like this brother’s look and behavior with the sisters in church specially young girls. When i was fixing his laptop, he got a call from the centre pastor so he went out to speak. I then quickly downloaded some folders from his laptop to my USB. I came home and checked that folder and right enough, under the pretext of some “documentary”, he had a sex movie in that folder. I have never told it to anyone except my wife.
My blood boils with the zeal of God, not just because he had porn in his laptop but that same devil, the very same week was standing in the pulpit and bragging about the “consecration” they are in. Where are they heading to, and won’t their guilty hearts even prick? May our loving Lord have mercy on them!
Brother,
It’s important that we identify these guys and publish their names. They are escaping the gaze because their names are not being revealed. It’s just like the silent stinker fart in a room with many people. As long as there is no sound nobody owns up to the fart and everybody acts as if he is not the one who shot it. We need to let the people know who are these culprits by name.
Brother, true but will wait for the right moment. I don’t want to do it now for identity’s sake as its a relatively small centre. I will send a private message to admin sometime with more details about this unscrupulous guy.
Bro Daniel,
People reading your comment might think you are tarnishing image of white clad men. I’ll confirm one such event. My laptop was used by bother in-charge in one faith home to prepare sermons (as my laptop had bible software along with commentaries). He used to take my laptop during day time as I needed it not in office hours. Later I came to know that this brother used to buy blue film CD’s from a nearby shop and watch it on CD drive in my laptop. Actually he was addicted and wanted to marry but was forcefully kept in TPM by seniors. Eventually he left TPM. He was a womanizer and he had an made some forceful relationship with believers wife in previous local from where he was transferred. In fact people had doubt that he was eyeing other believers wife in this faith home also. It was all shocker to me in those days as it was beyond my imagination that TPM worker could do it. Now I don’t trust any white cloth.
Brother I don’t get anything by trying to tarnish the image of TPM. It was actually difficult for me to tell all these but I think its high time we let the world know as too many innocent lives are being enslaved, lied to, cheated, and finally headed to hell fire under the pretext of marching to “new jerusalem”. Warning them is as important as telling the gospel to the perishing souls.
DearJohnson
These TPM people are very thick skinned people, they know it well how to cover up the matters by blaming others. Even if we publish the name with their immoral deeds, they will say that all that are concocted stories to malign the organization. But I don’t think that zealous God will remain as a silent spectator anymore; He will strip them naked & bring their pride down. On that day, the people who worshipped the organization & its saints as God will be confounded. They will say,”Alas! Is this the Zion we trusted & worshipped?”
//Even if we publish the name with their immoral deeds, they will say that all that are concocted stories to malign the organization. //
The above tactics is part of their theocratic warfare.
I feel sorry for these sexually repressed people who are forced to remain that way because of their superstitious beliefs based on a mostly outdated book.
TPM doctrinal books are not just outdated, they are unscriptural and twisted.
Pretty sure ex_b was referring to the bible.
If that’s the case, Either Ex_b doesn’t know about TPM or he doesn’t know the bible
Ex_b is an ex-TPM member who is now an agnostic I think. Hope I’m not misrepresenting his/her position.
Yes, you are right, I can see it from his previous comments but I hold to my statement. He doesn’t know about TPM as their “superstitious beliefs” are not based on Bible. He doesn’t know the Bible because if he had “known” it, he wouldn’t dare to call the Living Word of God as outdated.
@ Daniel and Richard…Yes I was referring to the Bible and I was careful enough to use the qualifier ‘mostly’ before ‘outdated’.
If you don’t agree with me, then here are a few examples of some verses which are outdated:
1. 1 corinthians 14:34
2. Ex 23:19
3. Lev 11:7-8
4. The whole concept of circumcision
5. Ex 30:33-37?
6. Ex 21:15? Has any such children been killed?
7. Ex 21:17? Again, has any such children been killed?
8. Lev 19:19…
You might give me some explanations. Many have, but I am yet to be convinced. Yes, there are good things said in the Bible too…
I call it outdated because no matter what the explanation you might have it’s quite a leap of faith for me to think that God who is supposed to transcend time didn’t think of any better plan than to command whatever junk he had ordered in the Old Testament, coz, let’s say..He couldn’t have done better…The modern society’s laws are much better than the laws God apparently gave during Old Testament and early New Testament.
Coming back to TPM, yes their superstitious beliefs are indeed based on Bible. Or in other words, their interpretation of the Bible. You might disagree with it based on your interpretation of the same Bible, but who are you to say that your interpretation of the Bible is right and theirs is wrong?
Its akin to a muslim saying,’ my interpretation of islam is that its a religion of peace and those people who use islam for violence has their interpretation wrong’…I would call it bull crap and most of you here would agree….try using that same logic to your religious beliefs too..at the end of the day TPM is just another denomination in Christianity, that’s it.
I don’t consider my an agnostic as well, I don’t subscribe to any such labels, I am just a simple human being who shares the same planet as you and million others..nothing more..
Dear Readers…
Just read the comment of EX_B
//I call it outdated because no matter what the explanation you might have it’s quite a leap of faith for me to think that God who is supposed to transcend time didn’t think of any better plan than to command whatever junk he had ordered in the Old Testament//
Our explanation cannot help EX_B because he does not have Faith…
Romans 14:23 Everything that is not from faith is sin.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.
2 Corinthians 5:7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.
Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.
Psalms 14 :1,2
The fools says in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.
The Lord looks down from heaven
on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.
Peter 3:3-6 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
Jude 1:17-20 Dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ said before. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who laugh about God, following their own evil desires which are against God.” These are the people who divide you, people whose thoughts are only of this world, who do not have the Spirit.
When Scoffers at the Time of Jesus was saying to Jesus the same thing as said above by EX_B…
Does God have no better plan, why you need to go through CROSS to PROVE that YOU are a MESSIAH…?
IF we would have been given a chance we wouldprove it by coming down of the CROSS…
But this is How Jesus responded to His mockers in the END
“Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”
This is MY GOD and SAVIOUR…WHO is MY REFUGE and FORTRESS..WHO is ALMIGHTY and ALLKNOWING…THERE is NO OTHER GOD but MY GOD ALONE IS GOD…HIS LAWS are HOLY and RIGHTEOUS…HIS WORDS are ACTIVE and ETERNAL LIVING…EVEN Heaven and Earth may Pass away BUT HIS WORD will still remain…
I BOW BEFORE MY GOD ALL THE DAYS OF MY LIFE..FOR HE ALONE IS WORTHY OF PRAISE,HONOUR AND GLORY FOIREVER AND EVER AMEN…
You… You’re What the world needs more of… A humanitarian.
One thing is very clear from those who say they are revealing the dark works of TPM but hiding themselves because the moment they reveal themselves they will be KICKED OUT OF TPM. In way they are acknowledging that there’s no better church than TPM because they themselves dont want to go out of TPM along with their family.
Ethically and morally that’s the worst behaviour a person can show being in the Church and speaking against the Church. Either leave the church and speak whatever you want or pray and keep your mouth shut. This is like bad-mouthing.
I am not sure if they do the same about their wives or parents or siblings while staying with them and saying they are NO GOOD.
Only God can open their eyes and heart to know the foolishness that they are engaged in.
There’s no consistencies in there answers but if a person reads through he can find holes in most of the responses.
God Help them and deliver them.
Dear RG,
Media and Journalism is the fourth pillar of democracy.
The ones who are speaking against the site are like Moses in the palace of Pharaoh.
Pharaoh would not let go of the people, instead he was laying conditions on what should be retained.
Here, the site is merely drawing attention to the errors of the church which is now almost out of medical scope. Had this been corrected 30 years ago, things would have been normal.
I agree with you that from ethics point of view, it is incorrect to stay and still crib, but here these are exceptional circumstances.
I hope you would agree with me.
Please remove the log in your eyes before identifying the speck in another’s eye.
//The ones who are speaking against the site are like Moses in the palace of Pharaoh.
Pharaoh would not let go of the people, instead he was laying conditions on what should be retained.//
I made a typo- it meant it as:
The ones who are in charge of the site and speaking against TPM, are like Moses in Pharaoh’s palace.
You have used an approach which is fundamentally wrong….. As christians…. things can be changed if we are on our Knees and Pray to God.
I do not believe by these actions of yours even an iota of change can be brought in except that you have betrayed your conscience being in the church which is a greater error than being out of the church and giving vent to your issues.
Every family would cover-up the misdeeds of their children, I am sure if you have a family and children, you would do the same. How can you then talk about others when you are hiding those issues which you have from the eyes of the others.
Again if you joined the TPM you have the liberty to leave TPM and join any other church as per your convenience. You will find similar issues there.
I really like what Ex-B has said in the end… TPM is just like any other church on this planet that we live.
But RG,
TPM itself does NOT claim to be like any other church on this planet. If that was the case, there would have not been so much deception and cover up.
While I fundamentally agree with your views on ethics of leaving or staying mum- isn’t there a greater malaise here where those who cannot/ are unable to leave are more than those who can walk away.
That’s why I gave you the Exodus analogy.
Thank you!
RG
(Off topic)
I don’t know how true it is..
Is it true TPM asks for original documents for those joining ministry and later burn them or even if they keep it in record, why do they ask for original marksheets and other documents…? If such be the case then the person who wants to leave tpm ministry will have nothing with which he comes out??? Denzel might confirm this ….
Bro Denzel can you please confirm this ??
Brother,
This is 100% true- The burning stuff is done by the candidates themselves.
This was more relevant until the 80’s I guess- Again, we never know who was exempted from it.
As IT/ Reference data/ ID’s caught up, a lot of documents had to be redone.
In my case, I submitted laminated sheets which were indeed photo-copies looking like originals (educational docs) The others like my DL/ passport were submitted as originals which I forfeited while leaving, because I could always get it done easily.
Good.You are a smart guy. But I feel for the ones duped by this wicked organization which signs up people into their slavery by deception. Totally Luciferian.
Dear Brother Denzel,
This is the heavenly wisdom that GOD had bestowed on you. Otherwise you also would have blindly followed these white clad day light saints and burned your precious documents. What type of snare they are weaving around all the believers and even their workers? Most brazen, blatant, blooper demeanor.
God had seen you before you have born in the womb of your mother to bring many enslaved brainwashed believers out of spiritual slavery and bandages.
Moreover GOD provide you with a platform at the right time to express your biblical understanding and knowledge through this site.
MAY GOD BLESS YOU ABUNDANTLY BROTHER.
//Every family would cover-up the misdeeds of their children, I am sure if you have a family and children, you would do the same. How can you then talk about others when you are hiding those issues which you have from the eyes of the others.//
I do not think anyone here has any personal vendetta against any TPM worker or pastor.
Its about the system. If you truly love them, you will worry about the system.
Uneducated folks will be easily ensnared and the guilt will come upon all those who silently watched the show.
Do you still disagree?
//Its about the system. If you truly love them, you will worry about the system.
Uneducated folks will be easily ensnared and the guilt will come upon all those who silently watched the show.
Do you still disagree?
@Denzel
I agree with you. My question is why has there been no initiative by people who left TPM Clergy on this? Aren’t they guilty of silently watching the show just as you said?
Every TPM Clergy who left the system and is carrying on with their lives are guilty of not FIGHTING BACK.
Since you acknowledge that you have a very good understanding of the bible, can you all change whatever you have mentioned in this site by these actions of yours?
In the past 3 years or more what have you all changed in TPM by these updates? Except that your animosity and anger towards TPM has increased and nothing more. You have taken holy communion with these things in your mind, if so haven’t you also joined in polluting the body and the blood of Christ.
Again I would like to reiterate that you all have used an approach which is fundamentally wrong….. As christians…. things can be changed if we are on our Knees and Pray to God.
If you and your team had spent time on the knees in the past 3 years or so, along with your issues concerning TPM then I am sure that God would have brought about a great transformation.
But unfortunately, you all think that you all are DAMN SMART and can bring about a dramatic change by these kind of activities which befits the characters of the Devil, irrespective of whatever references you might give.
Brother RG,
I am not sure if this site was alive for 3 years, its in the past 6 months or so that I have been following it.
Prayer is useful- Nobody denies it. So you are asking us not to highlight anything but close our eyes, in pretentious prayer?
Prayer is about communicating to God and web journalism is about communicating what the prayer urged the site owner/admin.
As earlier stated by ADMIN, this is a ministry to liberate souls who are brainwashed.
It’s easier to know the age of such sites by looking at the Archive section. Every page in this site has an archive section on the right column.
Bro RG
We handover the kneeling and praying part to you to change the system. We are also praying. It’s not that we have not prayed. There may have been thousands of souls in tpm who would have asked God to bring in change in TPM. But since you asked us to change our approach, I ask you to take lead. Inform us when you begin…
We are most focussed on false teachings and false doctrines of tpm. Only praying won’t help in this case. One must speak up the differences between wrong and right doctrines, which we are through fromtpm.
RG Sir, already I personally see that change is happening and when I tell TPM believers about this site, their eyes are beginning to open. Time will show you what change this site would bring.
In regards to our “actions”, can you show me one verse in the bible how Jesus dealt with Pharisees – that he just prayed to the Father and left Him to deal with it. Nay but His heart burnt with zeal within himself – He was not silent but spoke boldly against it in public (we have shown you enough verses but you don’t even have the time to read them just like all the TPM die-hards).
Leaving a church is not that easy cos we’ve all got a physical family – parents, wife and children and you just can’t leave them and walk off.
BTW, in regards to the communion – I have stopped taking the TPM communion 8 years ago and have never touched it ever since – from the time God clearly spoke to me that it’s not the Lord’s table but the their own twisted TPM table i.e. table of idolaters /devil’s table (I Corinthians 10:21). I’ve become a very “bad testimony” and a backslider in the eyes of TPM pastors and believers but I don’t care.
I also attend another church frequently purely based on the scriptures where truly God is glorified and I partake in the Lord’s table there.
Dear Nath & Denzel,
Excellent reply by well informed christians who have a very good understanding of the Bible.
I would like to quote what Ex_b has said
Quote
Coming back to TPM, yes their superstitious beliefs are indeed based on Bible. Or in other words, their interpretation of the Bible. You might disagree with it based on your interpretation of the same Bible, but who are you to say that your interpretation of the Bible is right and theirs is wrong?
Unquote
Bro RG,
Try preaching this in a TPM sermon or a TPM booklet… You will know that TPM does not represent the moderation of scriptures, instead it is a hodge-podge of scriptures enmeshed to make it look like deep doctrines that Paul or others failed to understand.
Why don’t they add their doctrines to the Bible and make a new version of the Bible calling it ‘Deeper Truths TPM Bible’
Why should they misrepresent the original scriptures?
I do not know much about XBW but from my comments with him, he is both a sincere Christian and an atheist at the same time, given his doubting of the love of God as well as his reverence for passages speaking of God’s love.
Brother Denzel, I do not agree with your statement. A person cannot be a “Christian” and an “Atheist” at the same time let alone a sincere Christian.
Dear Daniel,
While I agree that this is a self contradiction, in this case- you will see:
This is irony… bizarre but true… You can check his past comments….
Someone doubts the sovereignty of God, his plans, the creation etc and at the same time says I Cor 13 is his favorite chapter bring much peace.
Brother Denzel,
Just because someone takes pleasure or enjoy a portion of scriptures makes him a Christian- you are a great Scholar you must ne knowing the meaning of Christian( a person who has Christ in Him)… Question is… which Christ he has?
But have not you noticed in the same comment portion he was Denying the Love of God and His Nature …
1 corinthians 13 chapter talks about the nature of Love of GOD…EX_B denied the Love of GOD but enjoyed scripture portion about the Love…where and who will give such a love to EX_B???
Anyone irrespective of caste,creed,religion will enjoy the 1 corinthians 13 chapter about “LOVE”… it will not a make them Christians…
But THE TRUTH is such a LOVE as described in 1 Corinthians chapter 13 can only be found in our LORD GOD – JESUS,FATHER AND HOLY SPIRIT
Anyone who knows Christ and Believes Him and Recieves Him and Chooses to Love and Live for him will be a Christian…
Rightly said Bro. Cognizance. Our neighbour who was a practising Hindu used to have a placard from portions I Corinthians 13 in his house and he used to tell that he likes some things from the bible. He was a heavy smoker, drunkard and sadly committed suicide few years ago.
Dear Cognizance/ Daniel
I am not trying to validate XBW in anyway. He calls himself a christian, a sincere one who tries to seek the Lord and has hit roadblocks with too many issues with Bible esp. Old Testament.
Yes, he hates being called atheist/agnostic. Perhaps a sceptical Christian-whatever.
My intention here was merely not to name call someone, especially those who pretend to have already identified themselves with something they deny in reality.
Brother Denzel,
//My intention here was merely not to name call someone//
Dont wash off your hands like Pilate… Pointing out err in brothers may hurt them but intention is good and healthy…I learn it from my Lord Jesus…It is not how others see and judge my behaviour but how My lord GOD sees and weighs my Heart matters…
I speak openly and boldly just because thats what LIGHT DOES…JESUS Does the same to me…Since JESUS calls me LIGHT of the WORLD…I will shine for HIS LIGHT exposing the works of Darkness irrespective caste,creed,religion etc,.
John 1 :4 In him(JESUS) was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it
The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Thank you Cognizance,
It is out for everyone to see when someone is not teachable, its best to leave him with his conceited wisdom.
I agree with your statement and encouraging words.
Dear Brother Denzel who i love and respect a lot in Christ Jesus since you refrained from sharing your email devoid of option i am writing here…
You being a scholar would understand the below Bible passage which is basis for me to confront you…
//It is out for everyone to see when someone is not teachable, its best to leave him with his conceited wisdom.//
I want Truth to be said openly without hesitation…
Galatians 2:11
But when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him to his face, for what he did was very wrong. 12 When he first arrived, he ate with the Gentile believers, who were not circumcised. But afterward, when some friends of James came, Peter wouldn’t eat with the Gentiles anymore. He was afraid of criticism from these people who insisted on the necessity of circumcision. 13 As a result, other Jewish believers followed Peter’s hypocrisy, and even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy.
14 When I saw that they were not following the truth of the gospel message, I said to Peter in front of all the others, “Since you, a Jew by birth, have discarded the Jewish laws and are living like a Gentile, why are you now trying to make these Gentiles follow the Jewish traditions?
15 “You and I are Jews by birth, not ‘sinners’ like the Gentiles. 16 Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”[d]
Both of us know Human wisdom is foolishness before God…
With human intelligence one cannot find or comprehend God…
We both know carnal mind is contrary to spiritual mind…
We both know worldly wisdom is foolishness before Godly wisdom…
We both know flesh contradicts with Spirit…
We both know children of Light cannot Go with children of disobedience…
We both know spirit of the world is at work in children of disobedience and Spirit of God is at work in children of Obedience…
I charge you to stand for the revealed Truth for the Glory of the Gospel…
We are not doing this to exalt a community but to exalt out God so that the Truth of God be exposed to the Glory of God…
Even Simon the sorcerer who believed and baptized in the Lord God out of his human wisdom approached apostles with money to receive gift of Holy Spirit…Peter rightly pointed out his rotten heart…saying
Acts 8: 20Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”
Even our very own Lord Jesus When He looked at the rich young man who lived a righteous life according to law right from his childhood with Love and said him…
Mark 10:21Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
Are we not doing this out of love to save???
Are we SPEAKING to be approved and receive commendation from men???
Are we not SPEAKING to be approved and to the Glory of God???
Lets call out what is Evil as Evil
What is Holy as Holy….
Jeremiah 15:19
Therefore thus says the Lord : “If you return, Then I will bring you back; You shall stand before Me; If you take out the precious from the vile, You shall be as My mouth. Let them return to you, But you must not return to them.
May God bless you and use you abundantly for His Glory Alone…
Dear Cognizance,
I completely respect your stand and the boldness with which you represent the Lord our Saviour.
Firstly, I would not like to be known as a scholar, but a servant of God, although I do not lead any assembly.
I am very touched by this mark of respect and would humbly state that I know nothing more than you or others.
There are different types of Christian mindsets.
1. The Pharisee
2. The Greeks who wanted to meet Jesus just before His last days.
3. The Jews who demanded for Barnabas’ release.
4. They of the circumcision.
5. The Gentiles who look for heavenly signs- Jer 10
6. The Jews who look for miracles, but given the sign of Jonas.
7. The gentiles who look at Christianity and call it foolish.
8. The jews who look at Christianity and feel it is a roadblock to their traditions.
In keeping with the primary objective/ mission statement of the blog, I consciously try to rein in any barrage of arguments against those who are not directly influencing error/sin/blindness within the TPM church.
Coming to XBW:
He was a TPM die-hard, cooled off, left the church and now he is totally confused about Christianity.
I sincerely believe he needs our silent prayers as he is not sticking to any one stand. He in fact has been sincere in wanting to know the solutions to life-issues.
In other words, he has begun to suspect if the Bible is relevant at all.
Against this backdrop, in my previous comments with him I had tried encouraging him with worldly knowledge. But deep within, I know that he needs the real touch of God.
TPM die-hards are in a different mould, who refuse to see light because it will hurt their eyes.
Am I validating XBW, absolutely NO
XBW needs to firstly take a stand and only then can anyone advice/encourage/suggest to him. I feel it is unlikely he will even accept any answer because he has already made up his mind.
I will continue to pray for him, but the good thing is he does not endorse sin in the church by means of hiding it.
The sad part is that he feels modern civil laws are better than the mind of God.
If he was to do an RG/Thomas, I certainly would be eager to show that this wrong.
In his case, he knows the scriptures and had once tasted of grace, but for whatever reasons- he feels lost.
Since he has already read so many encouraging replies by Richard, Nath, yourself, it is unnecessary to convince him.
BTW, when I quit TPM, I went through a similar phase with no one able to help me except my mom. Thankfully I have recovered.
Perer’s tiff with Paul cannot be compared with the debate in this blog with reference to XBW- XBW is a sceptical Christian who is willing to see reason only through intellectual reasoning using (Freudian) philosophies.
Contrary to popular opinion, none of us are into mudslinging and God will make it clear in the coming days.
This debate is relevant only to those who are born again and not for those who are presently having no desire to re-surrender their ideas to the Lord.
The work of an evangelist is the need of the hour for those who are outside the commonwealth of Spiritual Israel.
The site does the ministry of a ‘teacher’ here.
Dear Brother Denzel,
Paul confronting Peter cannot be taken as absolute ground… But i brought in to bring a scenario… When it comes to standing for Truth… Irrespective of who the person is (Saints or Sinner,Scholar or Novice,Rich or Poor,White or Black,Jew or Gentile,Weak or Strong,Doubter or Believer,w wicked or righteous)…Truth should be upheld at any cost… Message of Gospel of Truth should be shining forth bright to the Glory of the Almighty God…
Peter has numerous reasons to justify his case for the sake of his brothers who are Jews…
But Paul has only one reason to confront Peter which is to Uphold the Truth of God…
Actually God helped you using your Mom..May God be Glorified through you and Loving Mom…
Out of His Great mercies and Grace you have recovered…
For God Himself brought you through all these ways to the Praise of His Marvelous Works…
You have refined in fiery furnace by Our Lord God to shine forth His beauty to others…
You are a Great blessing …I am not flattering rather telling the Truth…
May God alone be Glorified through our lives…
RG, is that how the apostles lived as well? In the sea of subjective truth? Or is there something objective we both can go to to check? You sound like an atheist if you say every doctrine can be equally called “truth”.
Sadly that’s the only reply that is consistent with tpm’s belief. They think they’ve received special revelation which no man can verify but believe just because they claim it. Just remember, the Bereans were noble and checked their scriptures daily to verify if what Paul taught was true.
Dear RG
Oh Oh… Did Paul try and stop the Bereans from cross-examining his preaching with the scriptures?
“Stop checking.. close your eyes.. kneel down.. if you want to check Scriptures, you are a betrayer…. leave the hall and walk away….”
Ex_b is not even a Christian and have not known God personally – obviously he cannot have the discernment and understanding about the Bible. Just a simple human being who mocks at God and the word of God, nothing more.
You are too RG – by your words and attitude, I can tell that you don’t walk with God personally and you don’t read your Bible. Just like most TPM believers, you think that being faithful to an institution and nodding head to the fantasy preaching of Zion and New Jerusalem, you can march to heaven – as bad as radical Islamists who are faithful to their teachings and go, kill people and think that they will get special treatment in heaven. Meet with God and set your heart right brother.
TPM-ites will hide behind any answer that will give them an immunity from criticism.
Until one hundred years ago, the common Christian was given to understand that El and Allah are one and the same- and the variance in their interpretation was because Ishmael and Isaac got separated by distance and relative history.
Did not the common Christian later realise through the efforts of various Christian writers that El & Allah are not the same; are as different as life is to lifelessness.
Would you RG, still feel that any interpretation is ok and its good not to worry about theosophical and doctrinal issues?
Shame on you RG,
Is your heart not burnt with Zeal for the Living God when you read EX_B’s comments on mocking God and His Holy laws…You shamelessly quotinghim to defecd tpm amd even appreciateing for calling tpm in comparison with other churches…
Are you really a saved person???
you are talking about the family…Aint you know Father in Heaven where is your zeal for the Father in Heaven…
EX_B is saying Our Father in Heaven’s law is worse in comparison with Modern laws…
If you are a Christian who loves God, you would have been gripped with Zeal for God..
Look at you ..Shamelessly overlooking those comments conveniently choosing comments to defecd Tpm…Dont dare to Call on the Name of the Living God…You are an hyprocrite who cares church more than God..
About people like Jesus rightly said
Matthew 12:6
But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
DO you know a God who is greater than the Temple???
Obviously EX_B is man who is ranting foolishness before the living GOD…
1corinthians 3;19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness.”
Brother RG – you are saying us to kneel down and pray as a christian..but what are you doing here brother..is this not the time of prayer for you…DO you what Jesus said about people like you…
Mattheew 23: 3So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Dear RG
You are repeatedly emphasizing that we should reveal our identity. I ask you to begin it yourself. I take here Mathew 21:23,24 where people questioned his authority and how did Jesus reply them. Same way I advice you to first reveal your true identity & ask your TPM also to publish the author of their publications. Another thing we are not afraid that, if we reveal our identity then, TPM will KICK US OUT because we have already KICKED TPM OUT from our heart & mind. Another thing, why do you try to mix family & church? Still I accept you argument but, at the same time the true church of God is compared to the body of Christ. None of us hate our body but give equal attention & care to our entire body. If TPM consider the church, the body of Christ then why so much of difference or schism in it? TPM minister have different treatment to Rich & poor; why? My dear RG, answer this question with good conscience. Lastly you said that, instead of exposing the filthiness of TPM we should kneel & pray for the change. So your statement is a proof that neither your TPM ministers nor you kneel & sincerely pray; otherwise such filthiness would never have grown like cancerous worm. So before you advice us, I would suggest you to go, do what you said and encourage your daylight saints also to do the same instead of waxing fat like Jeshurun & kick the Lord.(Deuteronomy 32:15)
@ cognizance and Daniel …thanks for your kind words and unwarranted judgement …you have the right to judge anyway you want but finally I don’t care …it’s people like you and your so called zeal that makes me get repelled by religion …what you name as burning with zeal with God etc are what I call as crazy fanaticism …again it’s your life and I don’t care ..and since you judged me on many levels let me say that I rather let God be my judge and not petty human fanatics like you or anyone for that matter .. I respect people like Denzel but you mr cognizance , you seem to have the same “spirit” that you are trying to fight in Tpm ..I apologize if it sounds harsh but I am not saying it in a mean spirited way but as a cold straight fact ..hopefuly a day will come soon when you realize that all this zeal and whatever you claim to have for God is just your subconscious pride manifesting itself …as regarding my Faith , let me and God take care of it…a third person at this point is not necessary …
Brother Ex_b,
I am not ashamed to be identified with Jesus even if i counted to be one among wicked as Jesus was…I am happy and joyful all the more…
I have never addressed a comment to you(Ex_b) since i know you are unteachable from your previous comments few days back…
Since you questioned me for the sake of readers i am responding not justify my case since my justification is in Christ JESUS but to show readers How Jesus behaved during various condition in the context of your allegation…
//you have the right to judge anyway you want but finally I don’t care …it’s people like you and your so called zeal that makes me get repelled by religion …//
Jesus came into this world for two purposes
1 – to rise many
2 – a cause of many to fall
according to the prophecy of Simeon
Luke 2:34
Then Simeon blessed them and said to Mary, his mother: “This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against,
JESUS who is the rock of salvation has two works
1- Cheif Corner stone to build us up to be Church of the Living God
2- rock that breaks and crushes
Matthew 21:42 Have you never read in the Scriptures:
“ ‘The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’h ?
44Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.”i
Teachings of Jesus will have two responses
1- foolishness to those who perished
2- God’s Strength to those who are being saved
1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Disciples of Jesus manifest two kinds of Aroma
1- Pleasing Aroma to those who are being saved
2- Aroma that brings death to those who are perishing
2 Corinthians 2:15For we are to God the pleasing aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. 16To the one we are an aroma that brings death; to the other, an aroma that brings life.
I run my race not looking at the result or effect but fixing my eyes on JESUS alone who is the author and finisher of my Faith…
//what you name as burning with zeal with God etc are what I call as crazy fanaticism …//
John 2:17
His disciples remembered that it is written: “Zeal for your house will consume me.”
Psalm 119:139
My zeal has consumed me, Because my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
As JESUS who really loved His Father burned with Zeal for His House …I who love my Father God will also be burning with Zeal if someone blabbers about Him some nonsense…
If my Zeal for my Father has got your nerves … Do i look Crazy and Fanatic ??? Let it be…I like to be even more crazier for My Father God…
//and since you judged me on many levels let me say that I rather let God be my judge and not petty human fanatics like you or anyone for that matter//
1 Corinthians 6
2Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!
Light exposes the Darkness…it never looks for face values…it just shines…I do the same as Jesus did do and asked me do….
//I respect people like Denzel but you mr cognizance , you seem to have the same “spirit” that you are trying to fight in Tpm ..I apologize if it sounds harsh but I am not saying it in a mean spirited way but as a cold straight fact ..//
Dear Readers …read below passage and look two contrast views on JESUS…
1 – One group sees JESUS to be son of David
2- Other group sees JESUS to demon possessed
Matthew 12
23All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”
24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”
I all the more happy to be identified with JESUS…
In fact your comments makes me happy…For JESUS said
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
As Jesus said if know My Father you will know me also…If you know the Living Spirit of GOD you will know because of Him i speak all these things as He teaches and guides me…
Nothing and Nobody can stop me from burning and shining for my God…for the love of CHRIST stirs me up…
I speak here only to Glorify God and God alone…Let me be decreased and Christ Jesus alone be increased in All….let my Name be forgotten and His Name alone be Lifted High forever and ever Amen
//hopefuly a day will come soon when you realize that all this zeal and whatever you claim to have for God is just your subconscious pride manifesting itself //
1 Corinthians 2:12
What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.14
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
No wonder you judge by human understanding as you have never had an encounter with Spirit of God as I have already responded you in previous comments…
//let me and God take care of it…a third person at this point is not necessary …//
As I stated before…I have not addressed my comments to you since i know you are unteachable as your very own statement above confirms…
May God alone be Glorified in saving everyone of us…
For none is Good but alone is Good…
May His ever lasting love save us from evil schemes of the world and satan…
Glory, Honor, Power and Praise be to Him Alone forever….
//I am not ashamed to be identified with Jesus even if i counted to be one among wicked as Jesus was…I am happy and joyful all the more…
I didn’t say Jesus was wicked nor did I identify anyone with Jesus, all I said was that you seem to possess the “religious spirit” which is a very common trait among religious people. Such a spirit makes them judge others who doesn’t subscribe to what they believe as Truth as being “lost” or “”. Such a spirit makes them feel that whenever someone questions them/ say strong words against them that such person is “suffering for their religion/God”
//I have never addressed a comment to you(Ex_b) since i know you are unteachable from your previous comments few days back…//
What do you mean by “unteachable”? Just because I was honest in my opposition to certain beliefs among Christians based on what I feel are rational reasons, I become unteachable?
//Since you questioned me for the sake of readers i am responding not justify my case since my justification is in Christ JESUS but to show readers How Jesus behaved during various condition in the context of your allegation…//
This is the impression I get from sentences like this.. ‘I am this guy who doesn’t want to justify his case coz guess what, I am justified by Jesus, the God himself….so you petty humans, I don’t need your justification…but that being said, since I know how to psychoanalyze Jesus Christ, let me explain to the readers how Jesus behaved….”..
This is what I would like to call Subconscious Pride…I am not saying that I don’t have it, but I am a simple human being who apparently doesn’t come, as per most of you good people, under the “saved fold”..
As expected, you cherrypicked verses from the Bible to justify whatever you wanted to say and in the process you might have felt very accomplished that you did a great job defending God and his words..Bravo…I am happy that I gave you a chance to feel that way…
If this makes you happy well and good. And yea, I have no reason to be here as well, but I find myself coming back when new allegations against a church that I once considered a big part of my life props up, bringing back some sad emotions. You guys don’t have to worry about my salvation or lack of it, if God is really bothered about me He will find a way to get me. You self righteous folks please continue the fighting here…
Brother Ex_b & Readers,
John 12 : 38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet:
“Lord, who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”h
39For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:
40“He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their hearts,
so they can neither see with their eyes,
nor understand with their hearts,
nor turn—and I would heal them.”i
41Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.
42Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; 43for they loved human praise more than praise from God.
44Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.
47“If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. 49For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. 50I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”
//I didn’t say Jesus was wicked//
Dear readers i will show from previous comments from the month of April How ex_b perceived God
◆Brother Ex_b called God as super egoistic person on APRIL 25, 2017 AT 9:52 PM under the Topic
Strong Desire to Usurp God in Tpm Clergy
//also I don’t really understand the super ego of God who wants us to be humble but at the same time enjoys being worshipped all eternity //
◆Ex_b called God as Proud and a sinner on APRIL 25, 2017 AT 12:28 PM under the Topic
Strong Desire to Usurp God in Tpm Clergy
//Glorifying himself? as in having pride?……
most serious of the sins, then the author of that covenant is Himself/herself/itself guilty of that sin…//
◆Ex_b mocked at the wisdom of God on APRIL 26, 2017 AT 12:28 PM under the Topic
Strong Desire to Usurp God in Tpm Clergy
//do you think just fussing over an apple was worth all these “lost” souls?//
◆Ex_b called God unforgiving on APRIL 25, 2017 AT 10:16 PM under the Topic
Strong Desire to Usurp God in Tpm Clergy
//yet he wasn’t powerful enough to forgive his children for eating a fruit from a tree //
◆Ex_b called God evil with analogy of parents ,child and cobra…
◆Ex_b even mocked the Sacrifice of Jesus
on APRIL 25, 2017 AT 10:06 PM under the Topic
Strong Desire to Usurp God in Tpm Clergy
//waited so many years and performed a so called human sacrifice on himself and instituted adherence to a religious system formed on the heels of that human sacrifice as the only means to let his kids in//
◆Ex_b called the Bible Truth as silly story on APRIL 25, 2017 AT 9:52 PM under the Topic
//I find the basic “story” of Christianity too silly to believe as a literal truth//
//did I identify anyone with Jesus//
Not you but I love to be identified with Jesus…since Bible calls us to be identified with sufferings and death of Jesus…
If you dishonor God it is a dishonor to me..
If you hurt God i will be hurt…
That is the essence of love of God
I speak because i believe as said in Psalms…I spoke because you dishonored God…I spoke because you blasphemed God…I spoke because you ridiculed God and His word…
Secondly brother Ex_b spoke about religious spirit
//all I said was that you seem to possess the “religious spirit” which is a very common trait among religious people.//
I dont belong to religion called Christianity …but to a person called Christ…
If belonging to person Christ Jesus is considered as Religion – Yes …I am fervent religious person …
If Spirit of Christ is called as religious spirit by your limited understanding – Yes …I am for Christ Jesus and i will speak for HIM…
Ex_b – on me talking about Jesus
//I know how to psychoanalyze Jesus Christ, let me explain to the readers how Jesus behaved…//
If you call knowing Jesus as psychoanalyze with your rational mind ( it is impossible to know God with rational mind as Bible calls out) … Yes …I do brother…
My God has instructed to know Him
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Knowing and SPEAKING about Jesus is considered as subconscious pride by your rational mind …
Ex_b – lost and unteachable
//Just because I was honest in my opposition to certain beliefs among Christians based on what I feel are rational reasons, I become unteachable?//
I dont call brother Ex_b lost not because ex_b miss out some traditions but He did not believe Jesus as He is..
Jesus said the in following verse not me about such people who is not willing to accept Jesus as He claims due to intellectual/rational reasons
John 8:23Jesus continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You belong to this world; I do not. 24That is why I said that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM who I claim to be,e you will die in your sins.”
Brother Ex_b called out my justification
//As expected, you cherrypicked verses from the Bible to justify whatever you wanted to say //
Dear Readers i leave it with you to judge concerning allegation on cherrypick verses whether verses have been quoted out of context from your Bible…
Like my Saviour said in
John 5 :
30By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
31“If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true.
God and His Word may sound harsh to your rational/Carnal mind but eternal life to your spirit…
Romans 8:6
For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
//You guys don’t have to worry about my salvation or lack of it, if God is really bothered about me He will find a way to get me. //
God loves you brother Ex_b…Though you dont believe it but still i say…even i do love you brother…I speak because i love God and His child(Ex_b)…
Brother Denzel prays for you sincerely out of Love for you…
Brother Richard,Nath,Daniel , Believers in Christ prayerfully SPEAKING only because of love for God and you…
Admin out of love shares your comments and engage you here…
Love cares brother…
We will surely worry to see our brother(ex_b) caught up with evil scheme of wordly philosophy…
We will never give up as God never gives up …
Satan and world cannot overtake you for God will come in His Great Compassion to save…
May God save you according to His Great Compassion
Psalms 145:9
The LORD is good to everyone. He showers compassion on all his creation.
Jeremiah 29:13
You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.
He is even more compassionate God ..He showed HIMSELF even to those who did not know HIM and did not know How to seek Him
Romans 10:20
And Isaiah boldly says, “I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.”
Because of His Great Mercies and Grace and His Everlasting Compassion May He save you for His Glory…
//If you dishonor God it is a dishonor to me..
If you hurt God i will be hurt…
That is the essence of love of God
I speak because i believe as said in Psalms…I spoke because you dishonored God…I spoke because you blasphemed God…I spoke because you ridiculed God and His word…//
“That’s exactly, Mr. Cognizance is what I called Religious Spirit/Pride. It’s that same spirit which causes crazy Muslims to go and kill innocents because someone drew a cartoon of their prophet, it’s the same spirit/zeal that makes you feel so good that you are doing something for your God…I don’t blame you, its part of who were are as humans..”
Secondly brother Ex_b spoke about religious spirit
//all I said was that you seem to possess the “religious spirit” which is a very common trait among religious people.//
I dont belong to religion called Christianity …but to a person called Christ…
” very cliched statement..”
If belonging to person Christ Jesus is considered as Religion – Yes …I am fervent religious person …
If Spirit of Christ is called as religious spirit by your limited understanding – Yes …I am for Christ Jesus and i will speak for HIM…
” Keep doing it…”
Ex_b – on me talking about Jesus
//I know how to psychoanalyze Jesus Christ, let me explain to the readers how Jesus behaved…//
If you call knowing Jesus as psychoanalyze with your rational mind ( it is impossible to know God with rational mind as Bible calls out) … Yes …I do brother…
“It is impossible to know God with rational mind?” Are you agreeing to
1. That you know God?
2. That you (and other so called Chrisitans) are of an irrational mind? ”
My God has instructed to know Him
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Knowing and SPEAKING about Jesus is considered as subconscious pride by your rational mind …
“No, I am sorry that you didn’t comprehend that sentence. Let me try explaining again.
You, like many other Christians, claim to somehow “know God”. Little do you realize the depth of arrogance in that statement. You are claiming that You somehow know enough of who or what God is. By definition, if you “know God”, you are claiming that you are so omniscient that you EVEN “know” who or what God is. Isn’t that pride/lie? Do you “know God”? All you claim to know is what you have learned from your church/parents/friends/school/society/your interpration of the Bible/your life experiences, etc.
I used to be like you. I believed with full conviction that I “knew God”. I would “preach” to others, quoting many Bible verses as you do…but life so far has taught me that all of that was just my pride showing off as zeal..the more you learn about different societies, different religions, different customs, history of mankind, etc. the more you realize that you don’t know basically nothing….
I acknowledge that I don’t know much about most things in this universe…I don’t claim to know God or anything for that matter…
Ex_b – lost and unteachable
//Just because I was honest in my opposition to certain beliefs among Christians based on what I feel are rational reasons, I become unteachable?//
I dont call brother Ex_b lost not because ex_b miss out some traditions but He did not believe Jesus as He is..
“How do you know that that I don’t believe Jesus “as He is”? Again, what does “as He is..” mean? Do you know everything about Jesus to know him “as He is “? Have you ever read books about Jesus which are not included in the Bible? Or worse, have you even read your Bible in its entirety to know Jesus “as He is?”…
Jesus said the in following verse not me about such people who is not willing to accept Jesus as He claims due to intellectual/rational reasons
John 8:23Jesus continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You belong to this world; I do not. 24That is why I said that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM who I claim to be,e you will die in your sins.”
Brother Ex_b called out my justification
//As expected, you cherrypicked verses from the Bible to justify whatever you wanted to say //
Dear Readers i leave it with you to judge concerning allegation on cherrypick verses whether verses have been quoted out of context from your Bible…
Like my Saviour said in
John 5 :
30By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
31“If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true.
God and His Word may sound harsh to your rational/Carnal mind but eternal life to your spirit…
Romans 8:6
For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
//You guys don’t have to worry about my salvation or lack of it, if God is really bothered about me He will find a way to get me. //
God loves you brother Ex_b…Though you dont believe it but still i say…even i do love you brother…I speak because i love God and His child(Ex_b)…
Brother Denzel prays for you sincerely out of Love for you…
Brother Richard,Nath,Daniel , Believers in Christ prayerfully SPEAKING only because of love for God and you…
Admin out of love shares your comments and engage you here…
Love cares brother…
We will surely worry to see our brother(ex_b) caught up with evil scheme of wordly philosophy…
We will never give up as God never gives up …
Satan and world cannot overtake you for God will come in His Great Compassion to save…
May God save you according to His Great Compassion
Psalms 145:9
The LORD is good to everyone. He showers compassion on all his creation.
Jeremiah 29:13
You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.
He is even more compassionate God ..He showed HIMSELF even to those who did not know HIM and did not know How to seek Him
Romans 10:20
And Isaiah boldly says, “I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.”
Because of His Great Mercies and Grace and His Everlasting Compassion May He save you for His Glory…
” I doubt the sincerity of all that ‘ love and care’ statements, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt…whenever I hear such statements I automatically tend to think of an article I had read once…
http://new.exchristian.net/2010/10/please-dont-say-youll-pray-for-me.html
I admire your passion Cognizance..keep it up…I hope you’ll learn more…
Dear Readers,
I kindly Request you read below verses with diligence before we proceed with understanding on Human mind and its consequences…
1 Corinthians 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
Galatians 5:17
For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Matthew 16:23
But Jesus turned, and said unto Peter, Get you behind me, Satan: you are an offense unto me: for you consider not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
God clearly teaches us through His word that a Fallen man with his human understanding never comprehend God and His word… In fact he considers God’s word/law as foolishness …
Then as a human being How can God expect me to know Him if my faculty of understanding cannot help me for that sake…
Hence God initiates in us a Wonderful Miracle which is Faith to comprehend and know Him as He reveals Himself…
Hebrew 11:1
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not
see.
Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through FAITH–and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God
Hebrew 12:2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith
Faith is the faculty of our spirit to know God initiated by God Himself…
How do we know God ? The Answer is THROUGH Faith…
Hebrew 11: 6
But without FAITH it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must BELIEVE that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
By Faith Enoch walked with God
By Faith Abraham explored God and His resurrection power…
Kindly read Hebrews 11 and 12 chapters in Bible as the Spirit of God reveals you will know the excellence of Faith…
How ordinary human beings exhibit extra ordinary life by Faith…
How they overcame this world and its philosophies with their Holy Faith on God and His Word…
But When men tried to understand God with their human knowledge which is impossible they fail miserably blaming GOD and dishonor Him with their folly…as we see in Ex_b’s comments…
They(like Ex_b) will call God Proud since He is not obeying to their demands of bowing before them to make Him known to their faculty of Human understanding …
They(like Ex_b) will ridicule the plan and wisdom since God’s wisdom is beyond their reach not confined to the territory of their human wisdom
They(like Ex_b) call God evil since God’s Spirit is contrary to their carnal mind…
God never bows before anyone since He is GOD… To know GOD i should BOW before Him which is FAITH…
Read the following passage as God reveals How He deals with such people
1 Corinthians 1
19For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
20Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
Human wisdom which is of the world prevents you from knowing God as He is…
Look at Ex_b…
GOD says about HIMSELF through His word that “GOD IS LOVE”
But Ex_b could not believe God as God of love because his rational mind is demanding proof and evidence …
Faith never asks for proof or evidence to believe rather Faith itself is proof and evidence for a believer as stated in Hebrews 11:1
Thats why Paul the Apostle calls for a Faith life
We live by Faith (as our spirit obeys God)
Not by sight ( as our rational mind demands God)
Spirit of the world blinds their spiritual mind to know the Living God who is Spirit…(2 Corinthians 4:4)
Spirit of the world makes them disobedient to God thereby detaching them from God’s wisdom and Life(Ephesians 2:2)
This rational mind prevent you from knowing God and obeying God…
Look at Ex_b…
Since i obey God’s word to know Him as He claims HIMSELF…
He calls me that i am proud/liar…because i believe God as He claims HIMSELF through His Word and know Him through Faith…
But Ex_b’s claim is that we will never know God…if anyone claims He knows God he is proud or a liar…
Paul exactly claims the same I know whom i believe…(2 Timothy 1:2 because I know whom I have believed)
John the Apostle has written to people those who knows God the Father..
(1 John 2:13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know GOD who is from the beginning.)
What is the intention of people like Ex_b in preventing us from knowing God…
They claim their(Human) wisdom supersedes God’s wisdom
As Ex_b daringly claims modern laws are better than God’s law(Romans 8:7)
They claim their(Human) love and concern for the world (people) supersedes God’s love for the world
As Ex_b arrogantly ridiculed the Cross and Sacrifice of Jesus …
They claim as if they know God but they never Glorify GOD …
“Dear readers i even challenge you to go through all the comments of Ex_b and see for yourself whether has he Glorified God or Dishonored Holy God”
Do you know what God says about such people in His word…
Romans 1:
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
28Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done
You can identify such people defending unnatural sinful desires of human beings (Ex : homosexuality – even Ex_b defends such acts)
Dear Brothers and Sisters…I am responding only to defend the Truth of God…
Finally JESUS called even His Apostle to be a satan because he was simply entertaining human concerns…
Human understanding will result in dire consequences which leads to death..
Romans 8:6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace
Spirit of God teaches us and Reminds us
John 14:26But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
Romans 8: 14For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
Let us have the ears to hear what the Spirit of God says to us in these last days….be led by Him …
May God alone be Glorified!!!
So you accuse me of blasphemy? If today’s laws weren’t better than God’s laws, you would have no remorse in killing me…Most of the laws in the Bible is akin to the barbaric laws which the extremist muslims nowadays want to propogate…
Dear Readers…
See the True colour is out….
God has been called barbarian…God’s law has been called barbarian…
When we speak about the One and Only True Living God creator of Heaven and Earth and His Holy word…
Satan(gods other than our God Jesus,Father and Holy Spirit) and his instruction(any religious other books than The Holy Bible) has been brought in for comparison …
Does anyone who knows Our God would Dare to compare even in our wildest dreams to Devil and His evil instructions….
As we all know 1 Corinthians 6 : 14Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbe
Dear Readers find the below analogy How their thought process works…
In the court of Human Law … Where Human is Judge and His radical understanding as Law book…
God has been accused as a barbarian and God has been judged along with Devil as Evil…Since Human’s law book(radical understanding) calls it so…
Few of the Human laws :
No one can blame or accuse Human even the Creator has No right to call them sinner….
Whatever Human does is right and perfect in fact he has supreme power to judge God and His laws…
God has No right to intervene in their desires – if a man wants to sleep with both men and women with mutual consent it is No wrong…
Nothing is wrong as long as you dont diaturb a Persons freedom …
Freedom – Opportunity to follow your desires… Non accountability to God…Human is supreme being and His idea is supreme…
God has messed up the world with His Laws it seems hence
Humen Saviours have gathered diligently these and so many other laws to save the world …
We Believers (those who believe in one true living God and His word) know very well
◆GOD’s law is Holy , Righteous and Good..
Romans 7:12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
I really encourage you read entire chapter of Romans 7…as Spirit of God teaches, you will be amazed at the wisdom of GOD…
◆God’s law is PERFECT and trustworthy and it refreshes soul…
Psalms 19:7The law of the LORD is perfect, refreshing the soul. The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy, making wise the simple
◆God’s law is True and eternal
Psalms 119:160
All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal.
◆ God’s law is Love
Romans 8: 9
The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”[a] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
◆ God’s law is spiritual
Romans 7:14
We know that the law is spiritual;
2 Corinthians 3:3
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts
And this law of Spirit of Life will DELIVER us from the law of sin and death and gives life..
Romans 8:2
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.
Let us bow before the Holy law of God and obey Him and Him alone all the days of our life….
Let Spirit of God who writes the law of GOD in our hearts bring Glory to God forever and ever …Amen…
Bro Cognizance, truth is not out just now. Time and again, Ex-b has attacked, accused and abused God and His Word but has advocated abominable and unnatural acts like homosexuality (which even animals cannot do). Sadly, that’s what a reprobate mind does.
Really dude..I advocated homosexuality? You religious folks are a special breed …i don’t really care about anyone’s sexuality, if you are homosexual / heterosexual / asexual …I don’t really care …..i am heterosexual and why on earth should I “advocate ” homosexuality?? I have better things in life to do than to tells other what to do, especially with their genitalia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals And just because you mentioned a “fact”
Nice comprehension skills cognizance …as I said if you were a Muslim living in those IS Infested lands ..I can see you among those extremists propagating their sharia law ..and would be most probably be the first to stone me to death ..religions corrupt people’s minds .
As per your logic I am of the Satan …why then do you think I despise other religions for e.g. Islam , with the same logic I use while debating fundamentalist Christians ?? Why does an apparent agent of Satan try to refute Satan’s own religions??
Brother Ex_b’s comment on me
//@ cognizance and Daniel …thanks for your kind words and unwarranted judgement …you have the right to judge anyway you want but
“finally I don’t care” …//
I am surprised to see questions on comments which Ex_b does not care…
I don’t care doesn’t mean I can’t ask questions or state my opinions…I don’t care what you or anyone else think of me, I don’t care if you label me whatever you want…at the end of the day, it’s each person to himself/herself….
Brother Ex_b…
Your definition for “dont care” in your dictionary is different from common understanding…
I am not intending to spend my time on someone who does not care …
I have done my duty already in exposing the Darkness and Shone forth Light of Truth to the Readers…
May God alone be Glorified….
Dear Ex-b
You feel God’s laws are barbaric because you see it in isolation. There could be cases where there is a demand for an eye for an eye, or teeth for teeth and so on. Such laws are basically a deterrence for future crimes by others. I understand that you are in the US. Please tell me why does the US still apply the death penalty for some criminals? Is not that Barbaric as per your definition?
On an overall basis, I feel such so-called barbaric laws (as mentioned by you) are an act of mercy. Surprised? Ok, let me ask you if your body has some cancerous cells which are fatal for your survival what would you do? I guess you would eliminate those cancerous cells by means of Chemotherapy or Radiation or some other ways. The Removal of cancerous cells is an act of mercy on that individual. Similarly, the removal of some individuals from the society is an act of mercy on the society as a whole.
I hope you understood my point and not be the advocate of those cancerous cells which needs to be eliminated.
@johnson I understand that argument and I have struggled with it ..but yes I agree there are certain elements of the society whose brains have become so messed up that wit the current (lack of )technology the best thing is to get rid of them so that others aren’t affected by him/her /them …I wish in the future there’s would Be some kind of technology where their brains can be altered to be good( good as defined by a decent society) instead of killing them off …
When it comes to God it’s different …there are laws in the Bible which asks children to be stoned to death for cursing parents, there are many instances where God literally demands genocide ..He wanted “every thing that breaths ” dead ..that includes animals …and babies and young kids etc. what Cancer is an animal ??
You know the verse that’s it’s the grace of God that leads to repentance …that would mean that you and I or anyone else who’s “saved ” should had been murderous , rapist , evil barbarians etc but for th grace of God ? So why can’t God ( who is omnipotent ) just extend that grace to every human being and “save ” them ??
Also there is a story in the Bible ( which incidentally Tpm folks used a lot to scare the crap out of its believers from attempting even a small amount of rebellion against the leadership ) ..there’s this dude who tries to , when the ark of the God was about to topple , catch hold of the same..what happened to him ?? How was he a cancer to the society ?? As far as I garner from that story his intentions were good ..
Also look at David and bethsheba sex story ..who died as a result ? The baby …what wrong did the baby do?
Abraham told a white lie about his wife but who did God punish ?
I dunno It they are acts of mercy ..God can change the heart of people if He wants to…He doesn’t have to enact barbaric laws to achieve his goals …coz as per Christianity it’s ultimately God that changes heart correct ??
What gain does God get when based on his laws someone gets killed ? He /she will still end up in hell correct ? Ultimately it’s God who is losing one more of his child to the so-called eternal hell ..
Dear Ex-b
I think I understand your point and I did reply it earlier also. Let me take one example that you pointed.
Leviticus 20:9 says, “If there is anyone who curses his father or his mother, he shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother, his bloodguiltiness is upon him.”.
Taking scriptures in Isolation can end up with viewpoint as yours.
Deuteronomy 21:18–21 expands on the law:
If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or his mother, and when they chastise him, he will not even listen to them, then his father and mother shall seize him, and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gateway of his home town. And they shall say to the elders of his city, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey us, he is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear of it and fear.
The trespass in question was not a casual, slip-of-the-tongue curse, but a deep-seated rebellion, an ongoing attitude of hatred that had to be dealt with severely. In other words, the punishment was not for minor infractions but for determined defiance.
There are several things to keep in mind about this particular sin and about the law:
The sin was ongoing and continuous. Deuteronomy 21:18 indicates that the punishment was only meted out after a persistent refusal to heed both father and mother and after all discipline had failed. The parents have tried to deal with their son in a loving, firm way, but nothing worked.
It was deep-seated sin. Verse 20 specifies that the son is stubborn in his rebellion. Not only is he recalcitrant, “he is a glutton and a drunkard.” This is not a case of a child who misses curfew or plays ball in the house. This was a true menace, a child who is causing trouble in society and grieving his parents, possibly to the point of endangering them physically and financially.
The punishment was not an impulsive act of anger or vengeance. Verse 19 says that the city elders had to oversee the case and determine the guilt of the child. It is only after the elders pronounced a sentence of death that the execution could take place. The law did not allow an angry parent to arbitrarily stone a child. A modern equivalent of this is when a parent sees news footage of his child committing a crime and subsequently turns the child in to the police. If parents know their child is acting in a way that endangers society, they are responsible to obey the civil authorities and report the crime.
The punishment was designed to preserve the nation. As verse 21 explains, the reason for this law was to purge evil from society and act as a deterrent to further rebellion. Israel was a nation chosen by God to be holy (Exodus 20:6). God gave the Israelites three types of laws: judicial, moral, and ceremonial. This is a judicial law. A child who was actively and deliberately rejecting the laws of the land needed to be punished judicially.
Which brings us to the last and most important factor:
Rebellion against one’s parents is direct rebellion against God. The 5th Command is to honor one’s father and mother (Exodus 20:12). Parents are a God-ordained authority. Disobedience to parents is disobedience to God (Ephesians 6:1-3). Throughout the Bible, there are only a handful of things we are told to fear: God (Proverbs 1:7) and parents (Leviticus 19:3) are among them.
The law requiring rebellious children to be stoned to death was meant for extreme cases to protect God’s people. It would have been heartbreaking for parents to bear the responsibility of initiating such severe measures. However, the Bible never records this law being enforced.
@johnson….thank you for that detailed explanation..I’ve read a similar explanation and yes it makes sense on a human level …but isn’t it similar to The sharia law that the crazy Muslims want to establish everywhere ?? I would like to consider the God of the Bible to be a bit more ” civilized “….as I asked why can’t He “transform ” the hesrt of sinners instead of killing them to make others afraid ?? In my opinion obedience out of fear isn’t really obedience …but that’s just my opinion…
One trouble with TPM is that from the beginning it had an exclusivist spirit and was set apart from other Christians.
As it is written, Behold I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: (Romans 9:33a). TPM went up to Sion and have stumbled over Jesus Christ and the offence of the gospel!
If TPM had abided in the Word of God and preached the gospel, Ex-b I think you would have believed on Jesus because you would have heard how God so loves you that he sent Jesus into the world to save you so that you can inherit eternal life and know Jesus who is Prince of Peace.
When the devil is given opportunity, he messes lives up, and turns sweet things sour, and turns hearts and minds away from Jesus.
Here is what Paul says about the church: And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ.
Now if someone doesn’t believe in God does that make God faulty?
Of course not.
Now if the church has false and heretical teachings does that mean that people have not prayed?
Of course not.
Such churches are not faithful to the Word of God.
Leaving a church or staying within it, is surely according to God’s will. Remember what Jesus said to Peter when he asked about what John would do? Jesus said “If I will…what is that to thee?” What Jesus said to Peter, he says to us too. “Follow me.” And He directs that path by His Word and His Holy Spirit.
Christians’ great encouragement, comfort, and joy is that (Romans 9:33b) “whosoever believeth on Jesus shall not be ashamed.” God bless you.
Dear Ex-b,
You would agree I’m sure that God mightily changed the heart of Apostle Paul when he (then Saul) met Him near Damascus (Acts 9).
This is what God wants to do in the heart of every person.
When Jesus reproved the scribes and Pharisees for teaching their man-made doctrines and traditions, Jesus said their worship was in vain, and Jesus called them hypocrites, because their hearts were far from Him.
What God wants to see in our hearts is obedience to the faith of Jesus and to the commandments of God.
By our accepting Jesus as Saviour and through the Holy Spirit we are given a new heart and a new spirit.
Since God has judged all our sins upon Jesus on the cross to justify his righteousness, what is holding anyone back from coming to God now to receive life and life everlasting?
And whosoever liveth and believeth in Jesus shall never die (John 25-26).
Ex-b, do you believe in Jesus, the resurrection and the life?
For the lack of better alternatives, yes.
Dear Ex-b,
Then you stand upon a sure foundation which shall never be moved, and through Jesus you also shall not be moved, because He says that He holds you up by His Holy Spirit and His word.
People come to an unshakeable faith in Jesus through many different situations. But God is for you, and knows you, even the very thoughts and intents of your heart. Mine too. (Heb 4:13). Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite, Psalm 147:5.
God has called you into the ever-lasting kingdom of His dear Son and will keep you by His power as you call upon Him in faith in every situation. This is how we all grow and learn to trust in and rest in Jesus, the mighty God, the Victor, whose grace is sufficient for us in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions and in distresses. (2 Cor 12:9-10).
Then we come to see the truth and reality of the Bible that being stayed on the Lord Jesus Christ is the most happy and blessed place to be. And this knowledge will shine forth in your life in word and deed to all around you.
I rejoice in the Lord to hear that you believe on Jesus, in his death and resurrection.
Remember how Apostle Paul addressed the Philippians … Chpt 1:2-7b
2 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you,
4 Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy,
5 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart;
(even as we all do here fromtpm.com)
God bless you in His grace and peace. Amen.
When we discuss the faults in TPM believers advise us ” don’t look at men,look at God”.What to do?
That’s a way to escape criticism. They have many such quips like “Don’t judge”, “don’t look at men” etc. The best way is to answer them using scripture.
I’ll give you a few examples from the bible.
1. The Corinthian church was proud of a man who had sexual relationship with his father’s wife. Ask your TPM believers if Paul advised them to “Don’t look at men, look at God”? This is what Paul told the church at Corinth.
“What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.” (1 Cor 5:12,13)
2. Paul’s advise to Timothy in dealing with elders who sin
“Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning.” (1 Tim 5:19,20)
3. If TPM believers tell you that we shouldn’t question TPM doctrines, ask them to read these verses.
a) Paul calls the believers at Berea as “Noble” because they checked with scripture to verify what Paul said was true
“Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.” (Acts 17:11)
b)Paul’s advise to Titus in dealing with false teachers
“Therefore rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the merely human commands of those who reject the truth. To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.” (Titus 1:13-16)
c)”Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” (1 John 4:1)
d)Jesus has told us to judge teachers based on their fruits. Jesus never said “Don’t look at men, look at God”. It is impossible to follow the command of Jesus if you follow TPM’s slogan.
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. (Matthew 7:15-20)
Jesus has told you that you will recognize them (whether they are true or false teachers) by their fruits. We run this race looking to God, yet we must not be oblivious to our surroundings when people being deceived by churches like TPM. I hope that answered your question. God Bless.
Sister Ruby,
Don’t keep quiet when they use such tactics. Ask them to read Matt 7:15-16. Ask them why believers are punished and excommunicated for taking medicine or taking communion in other church or marrying outside Tpm. Ask them why do not saints look to God when believers make small mistake, why do they humiliate believers by excommunicating. Discuss with them about TPM doctrines if they want you to look to God. We have documented many erroneous teachings of TPM in these website. Have a look at them and if you have doubt ask us, we will help you understand them. For example, Ask them about seven steps of salvation, ask them how saints can bear iniquity of believers, when Jesus has by one sacrifice has perfected us forever (Heb 10:14), ask them how can they become mediator when we already have Jesus as our high priest, ask them about their claim of how Abraham and first century martyrs go to third place in heaven and they go to first place of zion, ask them why believers are made to sing praises of white clad hypocrites. There is lots of information in this website. Bombard them all these. They wont agree but at least it will be put in there ears. God will work in his own time.
TPM blind believers
Think and discern yourself any Chief Pastor, Centre Pastor, Any Pastor lived like below. For me they all lived, living like Kings in a Palace. Just poor junior Brother Sisters workers are oppressed like slaves .. just waiting to pay back the same thing on their juniors…
Just read below scriptures and ponder..
1 Cor4:11-13
Even to this present hour we hunger, thirst, are naked, are beaten, and have no certain dwelling place. 12 We toil, working with our own hands. When people curse us, we bless. Being persecuted, we endure. 13 Being defamed, we entreat. We are made as the filth of the world, the dirt wiped off by all, even until now.
Thank you for your replies.I am following this website silently for the last 6 months.I never thought ,there are these many people who share my state of mind and are frustrated.But my wish is that this site should reach all the TPM believers all over the world. I was born and brought up in TPM.I always looked down upon other churches,as I was taught that all other pastors do ministry for ‘their bellies’.But few years ago God opened my eyes now I see.In my mind I am no longer a TPMite.There are many sincere workers of God in TPM but many others are not like that.Many of my friends had had bad experiences from these servants of God as young girls and teenagers. But most of them were not bold enough to open up.Let us pray that God should open the eyes of all the blind believers.When I grow up,I began to think that,Why these people give undue importance to outward appearance. They judge us according to our outward appearances… just like Pharisees. The way we dress,wear our hair,our footwear etc.If we wear white dress everything is OK.What a hypocrisy. Inwardly…wolves and foxes.I think,the root of all these problems are false doctrines known as”deeper truths”.First of all,let these people learn how to live a good Christian life in this world,which begin in pure love and mercy to others,then we can learn how to live in heaven.
I think more TPM believers come to “the light”. Please, translate all comments and articles to malayalam.so that more believers can understand the truth.
This website going to complete five years. Even though Tamil version of this site is not yet started. As majority of TPM/CPM believers are Tamils from India, Srilanka and Singapore and all are not well educated to attain English site. From the commencement of this site, I could see a lot of followers ask for the Tamil channel of this site. If a Tamil version is started, it will be very helpful to lakhs of Tamil innocent believers who are trapped in TPM/CPM to know the truth.