Strong Desire to Usurp God in TPM Clergy

Pastor Abraham Mathew brought back the old TPM nostalgic effect when he showcased his Unbridled desire to sit on the throne of God. I recollect my childhood days when as a small boy, I would hear the Pastor happily thumping the bible and quoting Rev 3:21 where the TPM Saints are going to be sitting on the Throne of God and ruling the entire universe. He was quite excited to have the power and authority of God which can be used with vengeance. However, after few years I came to know that this Minister thought that some power over a worker sister is better than the utopia he preached.

As mentioned in yesterday’s article you end up being a cult when you try to have a private interpretation and explanation of unconnected bible passages.

knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20

Flawed Foundation

Such things happen in Organizations like TPM when they already have a “Set Conclusion” and will twist so-called supporting scriptures by ignoring all other scripture passages. I too was brainwashed into believing the TPM Explanation in my childhood.

Oh yes, before I proceed I would like to inform that Rev 3:21 is not about Special TPM Saints but all who believes in Jesus Christ as the Son of God (Overcomers in the Verse).

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 1 John 5:5 

Moreover, Throne in the context represents limited delegated authority and not an absolute Authority. Therefore, dear TPM Fans, please stop your daydreaming and start obeying the basics of scripture.

Abraham Mathew’s Desire to Usurp

Taking a clue from brother Cognizance’s comment, I tried to listen to the message of TPM deputy chief Abraham Matthew (International Chennai Convention 2017 Saturday evening). I was appalled once again to hear the boasting with which TPM chief tried to exalt his place. He said that TPM servants and apostles and apostolic ministry of TPM will have a place in between cherubim in most holy place. This is to say that they will dwell in between cherubim. Nowhere in the bible did any prophet or apostle dared to exalt his seat in between cherubs. This is a clear demonic voice that desires to dwell in between cherubs, the place of God.

Strong Desire to Usurp God in TPM Clergy
Pope sitting between Cherubs

It was common in OT times for people to praise and exalt God, by saying “…God dwells in between cherubim.” It was a common phrase used for worshiping God. We can find several of such phrases in Old Testament (2 Kings 19:15, 1 Sam 4:4 Psalms 80:1, 99:1).” Cherubs were basically carriers of the throne of God. We see that in Ezekiel and psalms (Psalms 18:10, 99:1, Ezekiel 10:18-20). Therefore the phrase “dwelling in between cherubs” was another way of referring throne of God. In Tabernacle, there was the holiest place which had the ark of the covenant. This ark of the covenant had two cherubim overshadowing it, and God used to speak to Moses and Aaron from between the cherubim. Thus God speaking from between the cherubim meant that God was speaking from his throne. Thus cherubs were an indication to the very throne of God.

Look at the above picture of the Roman Catholic pope who considers himself as Jesus in flesh taking a place between cherubim idols.

TPM deputy chief Abraham Matthew is not one step behind in following Roman Catholic pope in usurping the position of God.  Listen to this message clip from international convention .

Abraham Matthew says


“So this place IN BETWEEN CHERUBIM above the mercy seat from where the glory of God shone, it is SHADOW IN ETERNITY OF MOUNT ZION where God’s servant his apostles, HIS APOSTOLIC MINISTERS  who are perfected WILL DWELL. ”


Ah! So you have heard yourself the boastful spirit that wants to dwell on the throne of God in between cherubs. This is quite contrary to the picture you get in Revelation 21

We have all heard TPM tabernacle teachings that as God spoke from between cherubim on the mercy seat in OT times, so in like manner, God speaks to believers from the mouth of TPM workers. Therefore according to them the two cherubs in the tabernacle were a shadow of TPM workers. There is no reference in the bible where we have any apostle in New Testament or prophet in OT saying that cherubs were shadows of messengers of God. Although the writer of Hebrews chose not to reveal the details of what cherub represents (Heb 9:5), yet TPM tried to go past the writer of Hebrews and establish that they have deeper revelations that the apostles themselves. Having said this all these years, TPM is now trying to upgrade from being cherub to the very seat and throne of God in between cherub. Prophet Ezekiel reveals that the fallen Angel tried to upgrade himself from being cherub to the very seat of God.  In Ezekiel 28:14 we are informed that the fallen angel was once a anointed cherub. From there he desired the seat of God himself.

Because thine heart is lifted up (speaking proud things), and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God (desiring throne of God), in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God… (Ezekiel 28:2).”

Thus fallen angel was once anointed cherub who tried to upgrade himself from being cherub to the seat of God himself. Similarly, TPM workers are also trying to upgrade from calling themselves cherub to seat in between cherubs the very seat of God.  I’ll repeat what TPM deputy chief said,


“So this place IN BETWEEN CHERUBIM above the mercy seat from where the glory of God shone, it is SHADOW IN ETERNITY OF MOUNT ZION where God’s servant his apostles, HIS APOSTOLIC MINISTERS who are perfected WILL DWELL


Now see the table below.

Fallen AngelTPM workers
1)      was anointed1) are so called anointed
2)      was cherub2) call themselves cherub
3)      was on holy mountain of God (Zion)3) claim that they will dwell in zion (holy mountain of God)
4)      Desired seat of God in between cherubs4) desiring seat in between cherubs (2017)

 

Conclusion

Since last few articles, God has been gracious to reveal the antichrist spirit of TPM. Anti-Christ spirit is that which tries to usurp the throne of God. It is a spirit in opposition to God. It was seen right at the beginning in the garden of Eden when it deceived eve by saying “ye shall be gods.” It was seen right in the times of Apostles (1 John 2:18). It was seen in two thousand years of Christendom after the resurrection of Jesus. It is present even now in TPM and likes of such cults which exalt men more than or equal to God. Sooner or later the Spirit will reveal its real face. It is now hiding behind the face of ministers of light. We have been saying this thing again and again in this website. We are thankful to brother Cognizance for highlighting this. We are also thankful to other readers who have been informing us many things that we knew not. And above all, we are greatly and greatly thankful to God, for opening our eyes. We all need each other’s prayer so that we may escape this great deception. Above all, we need the mercy of God.

 

64 Comments on “Strong Desire to Usurp God in TPM Clergy”

  1. Almost every Sunday you hear the TPM “saints” preach heresy. My blood boils each time. No wonder they threaten to take action on those who their sermons in social media / public domain. Heretics of the first degree!

  2. What a Flawed Explanation About Overcomers?
    Even the devils believe that Jesus is the Son of God – Mk 5:7.
    Does that make them overcomers? I believe in Revelation Chapter 3 , the church whom Jesus is addressing is already having a belief that Jesus is the Son of God. Still they had shortcomings – that’s why Jesus had to point to their mistakes and encourage them showing the rewards of overcoming them. Based on your explanation anyone who believes Jesus Christ is an overcomer and is guaranteed the throne.
    This is nothing but deception.

    When Jesus says, I will grant him to be seated on My throne – does that mean literally – I believer the number of overcomers will be more than millions and millions. If that is case can Jesus ask them all to sit in one throne. Jesus means the place where He is as the throne. That doesnt mean we will get all His authority. Still Jesus promises there will be some powers and authorities given to His bride. A bride will eventually be subject to her Husband but at the same time will have authority more than the ministers in the house who are the angels.
    The overcomers in I John and Revelation are both from different context and cannot be seen in the same light

    1. Brother Thomas,
      This is what happens when you do not have the guidance of the Holy Spirit and is ready to feed on the corrupted word of TPM Preachers. I assumed that you would be at least wise enough to read the complete context to understand it. Now I see that you have to be spoon fed even that. I am ready to do it.
      Let us check the context 1 John 5:4-6
      because everyone born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world: our faith. 5Who then overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. 6This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ—not by water alone, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies to this, because the Spirit is the truth

      Let me ask you, brother. Are the Devils Born of God?

      Do you realize the impact of believing in the Jesus of Verse 6? It says Jesus Came. Which Means He Preexisted his Birth.

      1 John 4:3
      but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

      The End time demarcation will be drawn between people ONLY Based on their Belief of Jesus and his divinity.

      What TPM Does is Diluting the Status of Jesus by claiming that they are Co-Saviours and Co-Redeemers to Jesus. This is the Spirit of Anti Christ. How Come these Kind of People who wants to Usurp the Staus of Jesus be Overcomers?


      The question that needs resolving involves a proper identification of this overcomer. Does he belong to a special class of Christians composed of those who are spiritual and not carnal? Or is he part of a special group of Christians who are set apart for eventual martyrdom? Or is “overcomer” simply another name for those who are genuinely regenerate believers?

      A survey of the rewards promised for the overcomer in each church shows that they correlate with the general benefits of salvation offered to all believers (Rev. 2:7, Rev. 2:11, Rev. 2:17, Rev. 2:26-27; Rev. 3:5, Rev. 3:12, Rev. 3:21). These promises describe the rewards for true believers within the larger body of each church, composed of both true and professing Christians.
      Almost all the references to overcoming mention a promise for all believers, promises that accompany salvation. . . . It would seem strange to think of only some believers eating of the tree of life, or not being hurt by the second death, or not being clothed in white garments.

      The overcomers in each church do so, not by their actions—rather their actions are an indication of their identification with the Overcomer, Jesus Christ (John John 16:33; 1Jn. 1Jn. 4:4). John indicates that those who overcome do so by way of their relationship with God:
      I write to you, fathers, because you have known Him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the wicked one. I write to you, little children, because you have known the Father. (1Jn 1Jn. 2:13) [emphasis added]

      Those who overcome do so by trusting in Christ and His sacrifice, remaining unwavering in their faith, even when faced with death (Rev. 12:11). They inherit all things because of their position in Christ as sons of God (Rev. Rev. 21:7).

  3. Genesis 1:26, 27 – And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him;
    Genesis 3:22 – And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.

    All these verses point out that God made man in His own image – like as He is but being subject to God.
    God’s plan concerning man is that man should rule with God – If we suffer, we shall also reign with him – 2 Tim 2:12

    A man cannot love a pet or any object as he would love another human – that love will not be perfect. Similarly God can love only a being who is like Him and not lower than Him. That’s why God created man in His own likeness and image that man may love God and God can love man and that man may live and reign with God. In fact angels will be subject to man – Hebrews 1:14 – Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
    A Cherubim can stand near God and praise Him but a mortal man can be seated with God on His throne – in that case the position of man is better than Cherubims and yes indeed according to the words of Jesus Rev 3:21 we will be sitting where God is – whether it is above the cherubims or anywhere that doesnt matter.

    1. Dear Thomas,
      You are in a totally brainwashed system where you cannot understand the whole counsel of God. If you already made up your mind that you will follow TPM teachings. I do not think I can undo your brainwash.
      Let us check your verse.


      Genesis 1:26, 27 – And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him;


      Do you realize that God gave man dominion over the living beings of the Earth (verse 26). In the Food Chain of things, yes man is above the list of creations mentioned in the verse 26. How does it happen that Man sits on God the Father’s Throne?

      In case you do not know you may need to turn to Daniel 7:13-14
      13″I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. 14″And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away, And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed

      Here the Son is presenting himself before the Father. The Father is above the Son in Ranking. How is it that some TPM self-proclaimed apostles are telling us that They will sit in that Throne. Check out Abraham Mathew’s Statement. He is not even telling that MAN will be elevated to that Position. He is telling us that the “CONSECRATED SERVANTS OF GOD IN APOSTOLIC MINISTRY” i.e, Exclusively TPM Ministers will sit there. Have people in TPM Lost all gray cells to accept this nonsense?

      If you did not know. Jesus sat on the Right hand of the Father. ACTS 7:55-56; ROMANS 8:34; EPHESIANS 1:20; COLOSSIANS 3:1; HEBREWS 1:3; HEBREWS 8:1; HEBREWS 10:12; HEBREWS 12:2; 1 PETER 3:22; It Means Father’s Delegated Authority.
      Jesus also gave his delegated authority to the Church. By no means, it should be construed that the TPM Clergy will sit on God’s Throne.
      By Rev 3:21 it just means that Jesus Got his authority from the Father and He promises to delegate that to us. Please do not even think of the Blasphemy that TPM Ministers will be some Gods.

      Come down from your imagination Brother. The earlier the Better for you.

    2. //Similarly God can love only a being who is like Him and not lower than Him. That’s why God created man in His own likeness and image that man may love God and God can love man and that man may live and reign with God.//

      Bro Thomas,

      Greetings!

      This sentence in quotes is utterly immature… You need grace to understand the things of God, brother. In case you still disagree after waiting in prayer, free free to refute and I shall be happy to show from scriptures what the mind of God is and means to us.

      Waiting for your nod.

      1. Brother Denzel
        Godly Concept: – “…in humility value others above yourselves” Philippians 2:3

        TPM Concept: – The Very fabric and DNA of TPM is made up of Considering themselves as better than others.

        Both these concepts cannot ever match. The First one is Godly and The Second one is Satanic.

        1. Admin bro, am eagerly waiting for TPM to reply as this creates foundational differences altogether…

          My heart goes out to the thousands of innocent uneducated workers as well… who will explain things… May the Holy Spirit alone speak…

          I am grateful to God for this website by which people will realise that the Jesus of the Bible is quite different from what is portrayed in the Church.

    3. Thomas is talking like a 2-year old as usual like all TPM indoctrinated “new jerusalemites”. Looks like in his bible, all saved children of God in history = TPM Clergy. Not surprising as all cult followers’ thinking are so diminished.

  4. In heaven which is supposedly a perfect realm of sinlessness , why or what does these so called “rulers ” rule over ?? Why does one need some sort of “governance” in heaven ?? Also why do you people lust for having some kind of “rule ” or throne in heaven, whether it be between cherubs or not …?? Majority of the so called believers of Christianity (in particular ) have the highest degree of lust (the form of which they strive to suppress while on this earth) …the lust for eternal pleasure and power …why do you “follow ” Jesus ? because I can enjoy my eternity of “pleasure” …why do you tell the gospel ?? Because I will get “rewards” in heaven ..Jesus himself said about a guy selling everything to buy the field with the diamond and also about investing for heavens treasures where moth and rust doesn’t affect ….all these point towards the silly human desire for materialistic or spiritual pleasure ….you may deny these but deep inside you know it’s there …deep in your sub conscious …I’m not saying desire for pleasure or having pleasure is bad but I’m just pointing to the hypocrisy that the same people who claim to be striving to subdue all these so called carnal desires infact seat a much grander scale of the same carnal desires when they strive for heaven

    1. @XBR,

      Mrs. Zebedee came to Jesus as if she was about to worship Him, but within her heart lay an ambitious deal. She wanted to ink a pact to ensure that John & James do sit right next to Jesus, in the throne room of God.

      Jesus turned down the subtle request and the original plan still holds good. The disciples were obviously envious of the two men and we see a lot of such competitive panderings since then until the crucifixion.

      Poor Salome is left in the background unable to grasp the infinite divinity of God’s soverign will.

      One hundred years ago, as we have heard it, Pastor Ramankutty was offered the same spot, through deep revelations. His followers in the TPM mission are also promised the same stuff if they wholeheartedly submit themselves to implicit servility and secrecy to the deeper truths, which was ‘once again’ revealed to the most holy saints.

      According to the new revelations,
      TPM full time workers are offered Zion, where they can see the Father face to face.
      TPM believers, rather the ones certified as true believers based on several factors decided by the saints- are going to occupy another heaven where God the father will not be present, but his light will shine there. This is New Jerusalem.

      The next set of saints like Admin, Cognizance, Richard, Nath, Justin etc.. will have to adjust in a cramped up New Heaven, where they need to eat the fruit of life and consume the leaves by the river, for medicinal purposes.
      Yes, there are no reservations there- its like a Mumbai local train carriage where you rub shoulders with the likes of Enoch, Elijah, Moses and John the Baptist. David will also be there.
      Since the majority will end. Again they cant see God there, just His light.

      All other Christians belonging to AG’s, Baptist, CSI etc will go to the basement called New Earth. These folks will be disorderly and will need to be governed or judged. And the TPM saints from Zion will be their overseers, ensuring they are well behaved.

      In short, its only TPM workers who will stand for a photo-op on a mountain and they will have enough worthiness to see the Lord face to face, because they were celibates on earth, and perfected the Church to reach New Jerusalem.

      New Zion – 2nd floor (light present)
      New Jerusalem 1st floor (borrowed light)
      New Heaven- Ground floor (sufficient light)
      New Earth- basement ( streaks of light)

      1. LOL. People who aren’t acquainted with TPM might think your post is satire. But that is truly what TPM believes. They have tailor made doctrines to feed the base human nature of wanting to be better than the rest.

      2. Again , my original question stands ..why do you want to see God face to face ?? It’s not just Tpm even Jesus Christ put hierarchy when he said the least in the kingdom of God is greater than John the Baptist …

        1. We are made as the vessels of God’s mercy, placed in his royal house.

          A sanctification wrought through grace alone opens our eyes to see that we are in His house… We are not in His house because our parents were spiritually ambitious, but because the Lord willed to bring us, mould us, careen, refine and define us.

          When we see the Father’s face, it’s a deeper realization of the grace and mercies, and not any extra holiness within us.

          Holiness is seeing the Lord, not according to visual capacity but His very glory emanating within us, and issues of praise will spring forth. The more we realise this, we will also realise our unworthiness, just as Isaiah did when he saw the Vision of smoke of God’s glory in the throne room.

          Why should we want to? Because He has asked us to-
          Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
          Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
          I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus

          For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
          Per this verse, with our own works of love/faith/hope, we may only desire to see the Lord, but when Jesus appears we will see things in the correct perspective.

          We the spiritual children, through the spirit of adoption have given with us deep groanings, to be united with the Spiritual Father.

          This groaning will not be understood by those who not regenerate. It’s like the panting of a deer for the brook.

          Since Man has a triumvirate of body, soul, spirit… every soul is bound to long for God, and the reborn Christian identifies himself with the death and resurrection of Jesus. The hope of resurrection is the hallmark of the right Christian- the longing to put off this tabernacle and to be present with the Lord.

          AT THE SAME TIME

          We should not fall for carnal ambitions of trying to see God with our works. This is religiosity. That is Babylon…. The tower of Babel was the first steeple constructed, in order to worship the astral powers and geometrically redirect the cosmic energy into their chosen sphere… This is not the kind of ‘holiness/ longing’ am speaking.

          The sincere heart that cries for the word, is compared to an infant that is breastfed. The little tot has no other reasoning/logic in its cry, but it is so created to cleave to its mother.

          When the longing for seeing the Lord is gone, we will end up seeking designations within man made religious institutions or even charities.

          // least in the kingdom of God is greater than John the Baptist//
          This goes to address the same issue of ‘governments’ Man in his excitement could have venerated John the Baptist, as an ultra saint… This verse puts them in place. This is a reminder that all we need to do is to LOOK at JESUS and HIM ALONE.
          When we look to ourselves, we start comparing with so many peers and even with the Baptist and thereby we feel we are something.
          When we identify ourselves with Jesus, we see ourselves as least, and the Lord’s work in us will take us, place us in His heavens, wherever He wills. And that is more than enough for us.

        2. There is no evidence to support your claim that John was considered an ultra saint and that’s why Jesus said those words ..infact Jesus is all praise for John ..and then he says the statement “the least …than John”…so as per Jesus there are hierarchies in heaven …also see Mathew 5 19…..also I don’t really understand the super ego of God who wants us to be humble but at the same time enjoys being worshipped all eternity …let’s say somebody saved you from an accident/death …would he /she expect you to come to his/her house and sing praises to him/her daily ???

        3. @ XBR,

          Point one
          //There is no evidence to support your claim that John was considered an ultra saint//

          Bro, Are you serious that I am claiming evidence that John the Baptist was considered an ultra saint and that Jesus was merely downgrading him by those famous words of ‘least in the kingdom’?

          Either my English language skills are poor or you have not read my reply carefully.

          Anyone can read my reply and understand that one or many of the below 12 points could have gotten into the heads of many of the people around and could tempt them to consider John as a mini savior.

          My sentence always meant that Jesus considers the reborn as better than the physical relative; a faithful follower better than the forerunner of the Lord.

          “Least” refers to those who take up their daily crosses and lose their daily egos and receive the promise of hope with faith and patience.

          a Maternal cousin
          b Spirit of Elijah
          c Fore runner of Jesus
          d Initiated Water baptism as a divine command
          e Baptised Jesus.
          f Had his set of disciples
          g Praised by Jesus
          h Was the direct descendant of Eleazar, the son of Aaron.
          h The voice in the wilderness- several OT prophesies about him
          i He was a Nazrite.
          j He possibly could have influenced the ‘Essenes’
          k Apollos (in Acts) was a former follower of JtB
          l had more disciples than Jesus

          Was John considered to be a saint? No, not after the Christian sort; No not after the Judiastic sort… But one and all feared him as a prophet with the prophetic call of Elijah… The king himself feared him.

          The denominations in early Christianity was because of the disciples of John. One group was the mandeans.

          In short, a new sect sprouted out of the disciples of John and brought about incompatible doctrines that conformed to neither the old covenant nor the new covenant.

          TPM style of consecration is also taken from JtB’s reclusive lifestyle.
          It did not take long for John to be considered a patron saint, he is still remembered as such by the Orthodox, RCC, LDS etc

          Point two
          Your attack on the Bible-based theme of Love, repentance and salvation.
          It is foolhardy for me to mix these two points and create a mishmash in a series of talking points that find no two separate schools of thought.

          In other words, the TPM Zion that we are discussing cannot be reconciled or brought to comparative light against a atheist idea that you represent.

          If the admin is ok, let him create a talk-page for “atheism vs Bible” or “Is God a monster” and I will be the first one to join the bandwagon.

        4. We are putting on poor admin an extra burden…lol…

          and by the way I don’t mean to ” attack ” the concept of love and good things like that..in fact I was reading I corinthians 13 yesterday and its still so sweet and deep a passage…I haven’t seen a better description of love anywhere else…not even in John 3 16..

          About stuffs you said about John.those points would make sense, but for a slight clarification..
          //Jesus considers the reborn as better than the physical relative; a faithful follower better than the forerunner of the Lord.//
          Do you mean to say that John wasn’t “reborn”????

          peace…

        5. XBW,

          //Jesus considers the reborn as better than the physical relative; a faithful follower better than the forerunner of the Lord.//

          For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

          Was not Mary reborn? Was she not the Lord’s namesake mother?
          Did not James, the brother become the chief of the elders, in Acts?
          Was not John the beloved disciple beckoned to be a caretaker of Mary?
          In the scriptures do we not read the siblings of Jesus refused to acknowledge Him… The same sibling James was converted only when He saw the ascension of the Lord on Olives.

          Being reborn- is a subjective term and it means many things to many people. For example, certain people consider it as salvation, plus water baptism plus Holy Spirit Baptism, to certain others it is the day, they had a definite realisation of their personal saviour. Many children born to Christian parents, having Christian names might fail this definition altogether.

          If you consider JtB as reborn, then JtB the cousin is lesser than JtB the reborn; same goes with all the relatives of Jesus.

          Did not the Jews boast that they had Abraham as their father and Moses as their prophet? They were not literally wrong, but lack of spiritual identity with the gospel of the Messiah, cost them dear.

          BTW, were James and John chosen as disciples because they were the paternal cousins of the Lord?

          Hope I have shown you what being reborn means- It is giving up your identity, for the shame of the cross.

        6. Hi X-Brainwashed,
          God is Eternal Father and Love and we are HIS children.. that is one aspect of him. HE is also Creator.. we are His creation
          Creator–> Creation
          God—> Human,Devotee
          Master—> Servant ,Hand Maidens
          If you think HE is Bully.. Yes.. He is Big Bully.. (read book of Job..)

          LORD,KING,Sovereign, Almighty –> Subjects ( whether you like it or not.. You and me are NO ESCAPE from GOD.(Period).. you can fool yourself, Deny … YOU MUST FACE THE TRUTH ONE DAY..

          I understand… TPM wounded you, betrayed you, abandoned you… may be other churches also.. read your Bible without any biased glass.. BTW I come from Hindu background.. I went from RCC to TPM… every where flaws, evil, darkness.. Perosnally also people betrayed us, cheated us in the name of CHrist.. that DOES NOT give me excuse to become Agnostic /Atheiest.. Hopefully you wil come back to your senses…

        7. @ Truth Please…I am glad that you’ve found peace in your journey from different religious belief systems into the current one and I appreciate you answering me out of what I would like to consider as a genuine concern for a “lost soul” ( or a soul on the verge of damnation)….

          Nobody has intentionally wounded or betrayed or abandoned me..it was that I was lucky or unlucky enough to have been brought up in such a system which for some weird reasons turned out to be mentally abusive on a subconscious level…

          I’ve read the Bible numerous times without any so called “biased glass”..hours back I had read 1 corinthians 13 and it was refreshing…and yeah God indeed is a bully in the book of Job and other passages…don’t you find God wagering with Satan silly?….the conversation between God and Satan on those few initial feels like two immature kids talking…..read it without your biased glass of unquestioning belief….that being said if unquestioning faith gives you peace and stabilty in life.I would encourage you to grow more in that grace, faith and peace..

          Adios…

        8. Dear ex_b…

          I would like to reiterate your state of mind…

          You was ex_brainwashed by Tpm men before and now_brainwashed by wordly men(philosophical Men) in either case you are brainwashed by Fallen human spirits…
          in either case , you were portrayed God differently…earlier you were ruled by religious human masters…
          Now you are ruled by wordly human masters…earlier you were held by man_made religious doctrines …
          Now you are held by man made wordly doctrines…
          Earlier you were trained to read Bible by religious leaders…
          Now you are trained to read Bible by wordly leaders…
          Either case… you are bonded man…your masters have changed but still you are slave to human spirit…

          I am not being rude and harsh in saying you are slave to human spirit still…i am stating the fact…

          You have not met the Spirit of Living God who can set you free…

          In either cases…you would have heard human spirits talking about the Spirit of GOD but what they wont allow you know is…that you can communicate with God directly…
          In either cases…they asked you to refer Bible and read Bible and showed references in the Bible to prove their doctrines…

          What they hidden from you is that God can speak and reveal and inspire you directly…by saying that i dont mean reading Bible with or without glasses…i am asking you seek the God of Bible…

          Do you know God can speak to you directly …
          I am speaking from my very own life…Nobody taught me or guided me…But God alone brought me up as a Father…He disciplines me…He teaches me…He feeds me…

          You say that you read Bible several times…have you ever atleast once met with the God of Bible…Do you know How he speak?

          You said that you enjoyed the message of love from God in 1 cor 13 chapter.but you find it hard to believe God is Love…

          A.w.tozer said the world has lost knowledge of God at the wonders of the world…christians have lost knowledge of God at the wonders of His Word(Bible)

          You fit into both of these categories…

          Bible knowledge will kill you as Jesus said word kills … Word of God is spirit and life…seek the God of Bible…seek the Spirit and life of God’s word…

          May God save you….

        9. The simple answer to that question is that God is my Father. Why wouldn’t I want to see Him face to face?

          If I had an earthly Father who I had never seen. I would have loved to meet him more than anything in the world.

        10. I love my Father and I love seeing and talking with him , etc..that’s because my father has been there for me in person , I see him work hard for me , take care of me , take care of my family etc….instead if somebody told me of a person who put a poison to test whether his naive/innocent babies would obey him and kicked them out of their home for eating that poison and although he could let it all go and forgive them didn’t do it , waited so many years and performed a so called human sacrifice on himself and instituted adherence to a religious system formed on the heels of that human sacrifice as the only means to let his kids in …also threatening the other kids who doesn’t obey with eternal torture ……..and told me that that person is my Father …would you still want to see that person face to face all the time?? Would you feel respect for that person or would you feel a kind of contempt ?? If I were Hitler’s child I would still hate him for gassing the Jews ..I might be a German and his kid and he might not harm me but I would still hate that monster ..

        11. Your version of John 3.16 per your commentary, might read like this.

          For God so despised this world, that he sent his son to perform a human sacrifice, that whosoever will comply to his bloodthirsty demands of obedience and worship will not be destroyed but will be inducted into a religious system that culminates into an unknown heaven, as his bondmen.

          I know that you will refute this statement, I know of a cousin of mine who plunged into atheism atleast 5-7 times in her life before being rescued.
          After every small trial she would lapse into an anti-god tirade.
          One reason this happens is because we expect God to take our side and meet our needs and make us happy all the time.
          True Christianity is not all about easter buns and santa claus. It’s about the man of sorrows who died for us on a cruel tree.
          The answer is grace. When you reject the grace of God, you will fall away into vanity-
          Jonah 2.8 8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.

        12. @ Denzel…I commend your sense of humor..:) I did chuckle at the revised John 3:16…I am not going to even try to refute…as Paul said..Let’s not engage in useless back and forth debates..(https://bible.org/question/there-biblical-warrant-engage-debates-non-believers-or-cult-members-what-format-did-apostle)

          I am glad that your cousin was finally “rescued”… I am awaiting such a rescue myself(if what I believe is considered atheistic by any standard) but till it happens I am not pretending that…I am aware of that true christianity implies…atleast on an intellectual level…Why should I “reject” grace if I know that it is a good thing? ..and finally you’ve capped it off by accusing me of idolatory…:) I am not insulted per se, but kinda feel a mixture of emotions as to how I should address that statement…coz I know for sure that I had been super sincere in my devotion to God especially during my TPM days and beyond….I dunno why the so called grace of God should abandon me(if it has..) just because I was kinda keen on an intellectual level….

        13. @ XBW,

          Brother,

          This comment was meant not to deride or even win an argument, but to cool the debate altogether… Hence, I tried showing what I thought you thought.

          We all face trials, we rise up and fall, we fall again… But in the love of God, I encourage you to take one single step in faith.

          Whisper just one sentence with bated breath, imploring the mercies and the grace of God, into your weary soul. The Lord in tender mercies will surely answer. I will also pray for you, as the Lord alone can help lift you up.

          You are reading into the verse too literally when I quote Jonah’s prayer. I don’t fault you for this assumption.
          Jonah was not an idolator, he was in fact simply running away from God’s plan. Sometimes we are also like Jonah, you and I are no exceptions. We run away from God’s tender call, his consoling words, his promises, or from the trials/cross set for us.
          Grace is added to us according to the humility we display in our trials. Do you agree bro?
          This is the lying vanity that makes us feel more weary, angry and left with more questions than answers.

          If you still feel am not addressing your pov, do reply.

          I pray that the grace of God meets you and brings within your soul the issues of his endless love.

          God’s grace does not completely abandon a person, but for whatever reasons, a person might feel he is losing the presence of God. There’s this case of pilferation of grace and we cannot question the Lord why.
          Its better to wait on the Lord with humility and tears for He has promised never to leave us nor forsake us.

          From my observation, I see that you are more of a skeptic than an atheist, some one who feels Christianity is not as noble as it seems to be. If my observation is correct, then you are treading towards total atheism sooner or later.
          I encourage you to speak to the Lord and pour out your soul… Idolatry is not about bowing before physical images, in your case and even in my case, the Lord sometimes takes the backseat-

          That is the lying vanity I was referring to. This verse (Jonah 2.8) was a tearful prayer in the belly of the whale by a skeptical prophet.

          Friend, I request you to return. Return to the love and devotion you had for the Lord. Do not walk away.

        14. If I had an earthly father I had never seen …but I’ve read about him from a book .understood that many consideer him all powerful , all present, all knowing . All good …yet he wasn’t powerful enough to forgive his children for eating a fruit from a tree which he installed “knowing” very well that it will lead to all the mess…wasn’t “present ” at the place to prevent that from happening …and not “good ” enough to use his alll powerfulness to stop the evil rampant on a system he made…not the kind of Father I would wish upon someone

        15. I think we disagree on the most basic level here. Without God we have no basis for calling anything “good” or “evil”.

          God created Adam and Eve fully knowing they would fall. This was the way he chose to glorify himself. If we look at history and think it is all about “US”, that is when we think God wasn’t “fair”. This isn’t about us. This is about God. God is FOR God. This is about God creating the world to glorify himself. The plan of God even before He created the world was that his Son would die as a sacrifice. It’s all part of the plan and it’s all good, since he is the objective basis for all that is good.

          It is not that God isn’t powerful enough to forgive without a sacrifice. God is just. The justice of God demands that a price be paid for sin. Since God alone could pay that price, He did that too and has chosen men made out of dust to be considered as his children. Would you be okay if a human judge let a rapist or a murderer go without meeting justice? Why then would you be wanting God to turn a blind eye to sin without there being any meaningful justice? He is powerful to forgive. I think you just disagree with the way he went about it. In my utter helplessness, if someone took my place and took my punishment on Himself, I would definitely want to meet him.

          The evil in the system is irrelevant. In the grand scheme of things, the time on earth is nothing more than blink of an eye. I sure will try to do my part to make this world worth living for my future generations but the earth isn’t the end.

          Also think about it this way. Why don’t you see God’s plan with sending the Messiah as a means to fix the system? The system won’t be fixed here, but in heaven.

        16. Here are a few links (which I have a doubt you might have already gone through) that would help you get a fair understanding of whys and hows:

          1) https://answersingenesis.org/sin/why-did-god-create-mankind-if-he-knew-man-would-sin/
          2) https://www.gotquestions.org/if-God-knew.html
          3) https://www.gotquestions.org/if-God-knew-Adam-Eve-sin.html

          I hope you have a sincere quest to know the truth and you’re not simply wasting time asking questions, trying to imply your atheistic views.
          God bless you.

        17. @xTPM…thank you for the links..yes..I have seen these answers before…yes..it tries its best to give the best defense possible but it fails short of the answer that satisfies my thirst…I wouldn’t have “wasted ” my time but for the fact that this website churned up some past memories of growing up in this church….I don’t know what you mean by my “atheistic views..”I don’t consider myself one..God bless you too….

        18. @ Richard…
          //This is about God. God is FOR God. This is about God creating the world to glorify himself. //

          Glorifying himself? as in having pride?
          you may ask to why I think being proud is wrong, if I don’t seem to believe that there is no good or wrong, because as per you “good and evil exists only because there is God”….yes I don’t think being proud of what you did is not inherently wrong, but if you go into the christian worldview which considers being proud as one of the, if not the , most serious of the sins, then the author of that covenant is Himself/herself/itself guilty of that sin…

          It’s like one post here one the author criticized the pastors for eating too much while asking the juniors to fast…

          //Would you be okay if a human judge let a rapist or a murderer go without meeting justice? Why then would you be wanting God to turn a blind eye to sin without there being any meaningful justice? //

          the difference is the human judge didn’t give the rapist or the murderer the propensity to commit such crimes…but in the case of God, if he is the creator of everything, it was He who gave his creations the propensity to do whatever “evil” He doesn’t want them to do…..it’s like if I want to create a computer program for something …I won’t ( and I am far from being omnipotent) intentionally create it with bugs and then blame the computer program for crashing….I would make sure I don’t have bugs in the first place….

          I realize this is a hard nut for many believers to digest….

          //I think you just disagree with the way he went about it. In my utter helplessness, if someone took my place and took my punishment on Himself, I would definitely want to meet him.///

          In a way yes I think the whole system God claims to have created looks like a mess……
          Yea, I would love to meet such a person too…but if death penalty was the punishment, that would be impossible…lol.

          //Also think about it this way. Why don’t you see God’s plan with sending the Messiah as a means to fix the system? The system won’t be fixed here, but in heaven.//

          Haha…sending the Messiah into a remote Palestinian village after about 2000 so years wherein evil became so widespread and deep rooted into the human fabric?? if you look at it…only 1/3 of the world is so called Christian…and among them as you can see in this site, they fight as to who is right or wrong……and if coming of the Lord is very nigh..more than majority of the world will end up in Hell….also add all the generations before us….hell will be overflowing with souls…..do you think just fussing over an apple was worth all these “lost” souls?

        19. Dear Ex_b,

          Kindly read the below story attentively,

          During the times of Noah about the story of the disobedient people who are perished:

          God said the following to the Noah

          11Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence.
          12God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways.
          13So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them.
          I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.

          Everyone – Humankind, Angels and Demons thought that is the end for all the people those who are disobedient to GOD and the message of GOD through Noah unto repentance.

          Do you know something that is not THE END, Rather a new beginning…

          Our GOD is the GOD of WISDOM , Do we dare to suppose that you can grasp of it?? How foolish on our side to think so…

          Coming back to the story

          People thought like you… What is this GOD ..How can this God held us responsible for not believing this mere man – NOAH …we have never ever seen rain and he(noah) was blabbering that whatever we are doing is sin.
          What is the authenticity for us to believe whatever Noah saying is true. We did not receive oracle or divine visitation to tell us our activities are indeed displeasing in God’s Sight. All we have had a man among us who was not willing to do whatever we were doing. Suddenly began to preach there is a GOD and HE appeared unto me and said that there going to be rain from the Sky(which we never know or seen) and flood the whole earth. Further he proceeded to say a weird thing that on God’s instruction he is going to build a huge ark for all of us. It sounded like fable for us. How can God held us responsible for such a judgement.

          Satan thought Wow what a great harvest…I have all but 8 people brought unto my abode. My Plan worked…I have the made their very own loving God to perish them with His very own hands.
          His Children are under my control.
          That’s the end.

          You know the twist and surprise in the Story…

          That’s the Beginning,

          JESUS(SAVIOR) made everything ready for their judgement of Reconciliation unto the God the Father through His Death(2 Corinthians 5:19 – God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them.).

          HE went straight down unto the Captives of satan in hades to set them free with message of resurrection and eternal life.

          1 Peter 3
          For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
          19After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
          20to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.
          In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water.

          DO you think those people were expecting a second chance? Would they every knew the plan of God? Did their foolish mind understand wisdom of GOD?
          NO

          All their grumblings/misunderstanding/questions were shut at the sight of their loving savior…Did they earn their freedom by their actions and advocacy?
          No … but purely by the Love and Grace of GOD…

          This is the Mystery of GOD… It is amazing to our eyes…When God says HE is love..Our Human mind tries to Process love in our very own understanding which is fallen and futile.

          Then How can i know GOD is Love ?

          GOD Himself will reveal His unfathomable love in your heart Through HIS HOLY SPIRIT(Roma 5:5 -God has poured out His love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit)

          In Nutshell How can we know GOD – only BY and THROUGH GOD Himself

          TO know GOD is eternal Life(John 17:3 Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.)

          That is the beauty of Christian Life…We live to know GOD and we die to know GOD..Paul knows this mystery hence he proclaims that
          For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.(Philippians 1:21). Satan is perplexed at this statement and he already stands condemned.

          Why ?

          Becasue,
          Paul is mocking at Satan’s weaponry and tactics. At any cost paul(child of GOD) wins and satan loses… Now you can understand the Victory JESUS has inherited for us on the cross(Colossians 2:15 And having disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. )

          May God Who is graciously merciful and Everloving Instill His everlasting LOVE Through His HOLY SPIRIT to enjoy Eternal LIFE through the KNOWLEDGE of GOD…

          Let us fly above all the knowing to know THE ALL KNOWING GOD!!!

        20. Excellent brother cognisance. But does this philosophy lead to universalism? I may not be very comfortable with it, because of Scriptures,(if it leads there). Anyways it was something new to ponder upon it.

        21. Dear Brother Nath…i dont know what universalism means…but i know what God has revealed to me…at the same time i know i cannot understand beyond what He has revealed to me…

          Onething that always keep me awestruck about God is….the more i know Him ..the more He has become unknown…the more i get satisfied…the more i get thirsty of Him…can a limited being know God…yet He has provided Grace to comprehend Him according to His Mercies….

          All that has been narrated above was the revelation from the Word through the Spirit of God….

          Who can give the understanding for the revelation of God – Human mind?absolutely Not …Only God can give…

          So whenever i speak or write about God i dont believe in my expositions or readers literature knowledge …i only believe in God who gave me the revelation as well as understanding to do the same for the readers as well…

          We can know God only BY AND THROUGH GOD HIMSELF

          let us fly above all the knowing to know THE ALL KNOWING GOD!!!

        22. Dear brother since you coined the word philosophy…i wanted to share my experience…

          Recently i have seen the MIGHTY Deliverance of God upon a person who has been tormented by philosophical spirit which despises the saving power of God…

          Spirit of God urged me oneday to call that person…when i called him he was drunk already and questioning me with same questions about God’s sovereignty over adam’s sin,heaven and help,judgement,questions like above…

          I said that i will meetings you in person…While i was traveling towards his place…i was asking God …God he is already drunk and he may not be in right mind to listen what will be said…God responded to me …Is there anything too hard for me??? I shut my mouth waiting eagerly to see the saving power of God and i called one of my brothers to accompany me…

          To cut Long story short….we meet him by the roadside…

          when God revealed His salvation plan which was hidden for ages unto disobedient souls of Nothing until the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the Word of Revelation unto Peter….No one knows …Fallen human spirits and devila began to jump unto conclusion and judgement daringly thereby deceiving many to despise the saving power of God and cut them from Faith unto salvation….

          Whether you believe it or not …we literally saw the Spirit of Jesus standing amidst us to save him from the clutches of devil…The place was filled with divine presence of God…we are standing by the side of busy mainroad …but Love presence of Lord Jesus surrounded us…The evil spirit left him immediately… he felt the peace which surpasseth all understanding began to filled his heart…he was delivered not by the counselling of the mere man but Only by the Love and Grace of our Lord Jesus…

          Oh….what a privilege to see the Lord Jesus delivers people from the clutches of the enemy…

          Everyones heart were filled with so much of joy uncontrollable that we began to sing on the road itself….songs of Joy and praises unto Lord THE MIGHTY DELIVERER…

          We young people forgetting the environment bursted out the praises of GOD…

          You know what that person testified with his own mouth with tears and joy filled face…

          I CAME WITH QUESTIONS BUT I GO WITH PEACE NOT WITH ANSWERS…I KNOW MY GOD LIVES…

          We have seen him like legion possessed man before Jesus touched him and saw delivered and sound mind after Jesus’ touch….

          Our God LIVES…Our God LIVES…
          Our Redeemer LIVES…Our Redeemer LIVES…

          Glory,Honour,Power and Kingdom be unto Him Alone Forever and ever…Amen

        23. Dear ex_b

          Let us consider a scenario you are designing a game…

          First you design the environment (background,properties)
          Then create main character (car,bike etc,.)
          Now you have game background and characters created
          For our convenience will consider car grace game.
          You have the track and cars created.

          Can you play the game? No

          Why?

          You need rules to be set for the game to be lively…
          How do you define rules?
          Can you define a rule without positivity and negativity…? Impossible…
          A rule is identified with positive effect if you oblige and negative effect if you break…

          This is How car thinks if the rule is easy to win the game ..

          designer is good ..

          If the rule is not easy and failing to oblige resulting in disqualification…

          Designer is bad…

          As per cars knowledge all it knows is…tracks,prize,upgrade,competitors,medals ,…it will come to judgement based only on its knowledge…

          Based on its knowledge it thinks designer is fool and evil to have created a Long lap and given little time to finish thats why i could not finsih the race…
          And continues to ask the designer – How can you call me a loser and disqualify me from the race…when the blame is on your part to have created a faulty game..

          On hearing all the voices from the cars of the game which you have designed…How would you perceive..?? Wont you laugh at their ignorance…dont you??

          First of all…does the car have a say honestly…?
          Because you created it out of nothing…you gave the car the ability to accelerate…you gave the discernment to access the rules…you gave encouragement by showing medals/honors…you gave the car the company by giving competitors….
          All the more …you have DONE something amazing as follows…

          You wanted to prove and show the cars it is possible to win the race by getting into your own game by sending your son as a car…and also you gave the failing cars a LIFELINE (new hope.)..saying whoever is identified with your son(car) – LIFELINE though unable to fulfill the rule thereby disqualified to destruction…can able to restore back to new life and new power to win…

          But even then the cars are blaming you for creating such a bad game with bad rules…

          Who is evil ???

          Answer me honestly…

          Designer – who has DONE EVERYTHING to save his own product … Who has proved the cars that game with its rules is not impossible to win by sending your son in the very image of cars to win on behalf of them….Who has provided new LIFELINE to the disqualified cars to comeback to the game…
          OR

          Cars – who despises the car(your son) VICTORY and denies the lifeline by unbelief but continues to blame the designer because things were not DONE as per Cars knowledge and idea…thereby concluding the designer evil…

        24. @ Cognizance,

          Brother your testimony makes my heart resound in praise…

          We all may not agree with each other 100% over Christology, as God’s person in our spirit teaches us uniquely, leads us per His will, counsels us according to His understanding, comforts us with bowels of His mercy.

          But this one thing we know, that as long as we are focused on Jesus, and serve Him alone and glorify him despite the Jericho walls, He will make known unto us collectively and individually, uniquely and generically.

          To Him, our Saviour, through our testimonies/praises, goes our Amen.

        25. @ Cognizance..
          I appreciate you taking so much time to write such a lengthy apologetic statement about your faith and the reasons for it…

          Some comments from my side…
          you had mentioned that …
          “but i know what God has revealed to me…at the same time i know i cannot understand beyond what He has revealed to me…..”

          How does one gauge the validity of your claims?

          //Who can give the understanding for the revelation of God – Human mind?absolutely Not//
          on the same token, if that being true…how do you claim to understand the revelation of God, or in other words..how do you know that the Bible is the inspired word of God , how do you know what you believe is just what you had been trained from your young age or because of your upbringing or because of what you heard from others, etc…..

          //We can know God only BY AND THROUGH GOD HIMSELF//
          So if I or anyone else doesn’t “know God” it’s because God isn’t willing to reveal himself to them?? Whose fault is that then??

          about the car game analogy..I didn’t fully understand what you were trying to say but I got the general picture…and I would presume that analogy was in response to my earlier comment in the tune of God setting us up for failure and then punishing us…I am not sure you have addressed that fully….

          also I would not set the cars (and their drivers) which doesn’t win the race on eternal fire because that would be dumb…since I didn’t fully understand the car race analogy let me put forth a more “living being” analogy….let’s say you have some kids…they are babies…would you buy a king cobra and allow it to freely roam your house where your babies are…??? since you are aware that the king cobra is dangerous..you whisper to the ears of your babies…” My son, you can play with any toy daddy has given you, you can also play with our puppy dog , our cat, hen, etc..but don’t go near that king cobra, coz it will bite you and kill you.”……after giving the babies such a great warning..you go for your walk and when you come back see that the cobra has bitten your kid…you call them,ask them about the incident….and kick them out of your home into a harsh world because you are pissed that the baby didn’t obey you…..the baby somehow survives the world..the poison grows..the baby grows..have babies..and the effect of poison spreads far and wide…after 2000 years..you come out of your house as your son (whatever that means..)…gets killed by your “children”….but since you are great rises up again…and institutes a rule that whoever believes in your death and eventual resurrection will be allowed back into your home…and whoever doesn’t will be tortured for eternity…..my questions are…

          1. What kind of irresponsble parents leaves babies alone with a house of cobra?
          2. Why on earth do you need to buy a cobra for your house if you know that it will do more harm than good?

        26. @ex_brain
          ///
          1. What kind of irresponsble parents leaves babies alone with a house of cobra?
          2. Why on earth do you need to buy a cobra for your house if you know that it will do more harm than good?///

          How can you define parents as irresponsible if the time frame is much much infinitely large, where parents are to have 7 billion children every ten to twenty years and where the evil cobra itself is infinitesimal small evil in relation to grand good of entire creation in larger context, and where parent has provided a means of restoring the world into a state where they will fix the evil cobra in appropriate time (time fixed appropriate by their infinite wisdom in context of larger time frame). You seem to challenge the morality and wisdom of God, in scope of limited time that your mind can grasp and in scope of limited numbers of people compared to eternity, with your fixed definition of morality, which becomes void in larger context.

          Let me give you example. What about governments responsibility in throwing few men called soldiers to war? Is decision of government evil by sending soldiers to die ? The point is that wiser decisions are needed to change the definitions of good and evil from fixed definitions.

        27. This is why cross is the means provided to restore the creation to eternal happiness. Accepting cross is not accepting fixed definitions of good and evil, (religion). Cross unites you or reconciles you to God himself in such a way that it no longer fixed rules of good and evil that make you take decision but infinite wisdom that dwells in you in to make decisions for each entity in a system as to what will be good or evil according to his wisdom and foreknowledge of effects of action.

        28. Dear Ex_b,

          1)“but i know what God has revealed to me…at the same time i know i cannot understand beyond what He has revealed to me…..”

          //How does one gauge the validity of your claims?//

          From your response i understand that you want to understand everything within your vicinity.

          It is like a first standard student who does not even got the understanding of simple addition,subtraction,multiplication and division is bullying the 12 standard student for not understanding super-science of scientists and continues to say since you dont know everything about science.I dont think you are capable to teach me addition,subtraction,multiplication and division(question exactly fits here -How does one gauge the validity of your claims?).

          In the same way brother we are all in phase of Knowing GOD…I know what GOD has been revealed me ..beyond that i never know unless he reveals…

          Kindly dont take my tone in a harsh and deriding way as per your understanding ..I was just trying put forth the state of fallen mind and its processing..Claiming to be wise but foolish in the sight of GOD..

        29. ANSWER:
          I have not been trained or heard by my parents or pastors or clergy or people like sam harris,ravi zecharius,philosophers,atheist.
          But by the very Living GOD who is ALL KNOWING and ALL WISE AND TRUTH and GRACE and LOVE who cease not to exist …What more authority and authenticity do i need to believe..

          3)//We can know God only BY AND THROUGH GOD HIMSELF//
          So if I or anyone else doesn’t “know God” it’s because God isn’t willing to reveal himself to them?? Whose fault is that then??

          My question is how did you jump into the conclusion that he is not willing to reveal himself…Who told you that? Philosophers or Satan ?

          Did i say that you dont know GOD ? No … All i am saying is that you know GOD based on what you had been trained from your young age or because of your upbringing or because of what you heard from others(sam harris etc,), etc…..

          Dad’s perspective:
          Every baby wants to drive a car…A baby sitting at the lap of her mom inside the car looks at the dad driving the car..Immediately it signals the dad that it wants to drive the car by crying or weeping etc,..What a dad will do ?
          A true Dad will not encourage baby’s adamancy nor will he obeys to cry of the foolish and ignorant baby…First the dad will teach the baby to walk,to run,to ride the bicycle and to face the busyness the road followed by knowledge impartation of
          rules of the traffic and driving lessons.Finally present the grown up son/daughter – both physically and mentally a brand new car. Because , the Dad’s child will KNOW the road and traffic same as the DAD now…

          Baby’s Perspective:
          Every baby wants to drive a car…A baby sitting at the lap of her mom inside the car looks at the dad driving the car..Immediately it signals the dad that it wants to drive the car by crying or weeping etc,..What baby will do ?
          The moment it found the dad not obeying to its demand..it cried all the more…Dad tried to soothe the baby by hugging, kissing, giving toys,etc,. But Baby never gave up…Finally baby came to the conclusion Dad is evil…He is selfish..
          He is not giving His car to me…but He is teaching me to share your toys, chocolates with your neighbor…When the dad tries to teach the baby to walk…since it does not trust the dad…it fails to obey him…It learns to warn by looking at the neighbour baby…
          and began to blame DAD for not teaching to walk,to run…But the Truth is, Dad is always with the baby to teach but the baby is not willing to trust and believe DAD..beacuse the Dad did not allow the baby to drive the car..

          Dear brother you have not met the TRUE living GOD yet…You have only heard about GOD …fisrt through TPM then through wayward philosophers…

          There is a differnece between knowing about GOD and Knowing GOD…

          YOu and I know about U.S president Donald trump…but we dont know him…

          How do we know about him…through media,his wellsishers,his haters,positive and negative comments…

          We picture based on what we understand from all the inputs… If you are getting only negative inputs you will picture as an evil person…
          If you are getting positive inputs you will picture him as goog person…if you getting mixture of both…based on your understanding and jusdgement you fix either ways…

          But there is way lot difference in knowing Donald trump when you meet and live with him in person….

          That is what i am trying to tell you my dear brother Ex_B…Why dont you humble yourself before GOD accepting your limitations and folly and ask HIm to reveal Himself in His Way..
          Why dont you trust Him..Enough of trusting the fallen men and philosophies…Kindly look unto your very own creator…Ask Him truly.. GOD, i cant understand you..you seem to be evil and bad with my understanding why dont you reveal yourself to me.
          Oh Lord Save me…

          FOR THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE HOLY IS UNDERSTANDING….

          Let us fly above all the knowing to know THE ALL KNOWING GOD…

        30. Dear bro EX_B,

          2) //Who can give the understanding for the revelation of God – Human mind?absolutely Not//
          on the same token, if that being true…how do you claim to understand the revelation of God, or in other words..
          how do you know that the Bible is the inspired word of God , how do you know what you believe is just what you had been trained from your young age or because of your upbringing or because of what you heard from others, etc…..

          3)//We can know God only BY AND THROUGH GOD HIMSELF//
          So if I or anyone else doesn’t “know God” it’s because God isn’t willing to reveal himself to them?? Whose fault is that then??

          Responses:

          2)Actually you missed the essence of message by splitting it according to your understanding…

          It should be read like this…

          Who can give the understanding for the revelation of God – Human mind? absolutely Not …Only God can give…

          how do you claim to understand the revelation of God, or in other words..
          how do you know that the Bible is the inspired word of God??

          ANSWER:
          BY and THROUGH GOD

          how do you know what you believe is just
          what you had been trained from your young age or because of your upbringing or because of what you heard from others, etc…..???

          ANSWER:
          I have not been trained or heard by my parents or pastors or clergy or people like sam harris,ravi zecharius,philosophers,atheist.
          But by the very Living GOD who is ALL KNOWING and ALL WISE AND TRUTH and GRACE and LOVE who cease not to exist …What more authority and authenticity do i need to believe..

          3)//We can know God only BY AND THROUGH GOD HIMSELF//
          So if I or anyone else doesn’t “know God” it’s because God isn’t willing to reveal himself to them?? Whose fault is that then??

          My question is how did you jump into the conclusion that he is not willing to reveal himself…Who told you that? Philosophers or Satan ?

          Did i say that you dont know GOD ? No … All i am saying is that you know GOD based on what you had been trained from your young age or because of your upbringing or because of what you heard from others(sam harris etc,), etc…..

          Dad’s perspective:
          Every baby wants to drive a car…A baby sitting at the lap of her mom inside the car looks at the dad driving the car..Immediately it signals the dad that it wants to drive the car by crying or weeping etc,..What a dad will do ?
          A true Dad will not encourage baby’s adamancy nor will he obeys to cry of the foolish and ignorant baby…First the dad will teach the baby to walk,to run,to ride the bicycle and to face the busyness the road followed by knowledge impartation of
          rules of the traffic and driving lessons.Finally present the grown up son/daughter – both physically and mentally a brand new car. Because , the Dad’s child will KNOW the road and traffic same as the DAD now…

          Baby’s Perspective:
          Every baby wants to drive a car…A baby sitting at the lap of her mom inside the car looks at the dad driving the car..Immediately it signals the dad that it wants to drive the car by crying or weeping etc,..What baby will do ?
          The moment it found the dad not obeying to its demand..it cried all the more…Dad tried to soothe the baby by hugging, kissing, giving toys,etc,. But Baby never gave up…Finally baby came to the conclusion Dad is evil…He is selfish..
          He is not giving His car to me…but He is teaching me to share your toys, chocolates with your neighbor…When the dad tries to teach the baby to walk…since it does not trust the dad…it fails to obey him…It learns to warn by looking at the neighbour baby…
          and began to blame DAD for not teaching to walk,to run…But the Truth is, Dad is always with the baby to teach but the baby is not willing to trust and believe DAD..beacuse the Dad did not allow the baby to drive the car..

          Dear brother you have not met the TRUE living GOD yet…You have only heard about GOD …fisrt through TPM then through wayward philosophers…

          There is a differnece between knowing about GOD and Knowing GOD…

          YOu and I know about U.S president Donald trump…but we dont know him…

          How do we know about him…through media,his wellsishers,his haters,positive and negative comments…

          We picture based on what we understand from all the inputs… If you are getting only negative inputs you will picture as an evil person…
          If you are getting positive inputs you will picture him as goog person…if you getting mixture of both…based on your understanding and jusdgement you fix either ways…

          But there is way lot difference in knowing Donald trump when you meet and live with him in person….

          That is what i am trying to tell you my dear brother Ex_B…Why dont you humble yourself before GOD accepting your limitations and folly and ask HIm to reveal Himself in His Way..
          Why dont you trust Him..Enough of trusting the fallen men and philosophies…Kindly look unto your very own creator…Ask Him truly.. GOD, i cant understand you..you seem to be evil and bad with my understanding why dont you reveal yourself to me.
          Oh Lord Save me…

          FOR THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE HOLY IS UNDERSTANDING….

          Let us fly above all the knowing to know THE ALL KNOWING GOD…

        31. Dear brother ex_b,

          If you would have read my previous post(car analogy)…i was trying to do only two things…i was not trying to answer your questions rather
          1)shifting your focus and attention to the living GOD – Creator
          2)Pointing the limitation of Human(creation) and his understanding/Judgement

          Question:
          1. What kind of irresponsble parents leaves babies alone with a house of cobra?
          2. Why on earth do you need to buy a cobra for your house if you know that it will do more harm than good?

          Fisrt of all above statements are not questions..Because it has answers in it…you already passed the judgement on the parents that they are “IRRESPONSIBLE”,”Harmful” by the deceptive philosophies of the world.
          You are only looking for evidence for your judgement on GOD.But still you put the question mark at the end..you know why?…because you want to prove your understanding is right and perfect…If you really want to know why parents has to do such a thing…
          You could have taken steps to meet the parents and ask their answers…

          if you see a baby crying before his house.You will ask the baby why are you crying… the baby says my mom has beaten me severly… you get to hear from the neighbor of the house…yes, brother i see the baby crying everyday i dont know what kind of mother is she.
          suddenly , you receive a watsup message in your mobile saying one statistics – percentage of children being beaten at home has increased from 45% to 70 % this year…By this time your mind would have already processed the MOM as evil,bad and irresponsible person with all the inputs.

          My question..Did you take a single step to go into the house to meet the MOM and ask what has happened…

          You the read the Bible especially as per our context story of Eden Garden

          You see GOD,GARDEN,ADAM &EVE,Serpent

          GOD’s Creation – Garden(Knowledge of Good and Evil tree), ADAM&EVE

          GOD”S Command – Not to eat from Knowledge of Good and Evil tree

          Serpent’s justifiable suggestion

          ADAM & EVE’s judgement on their own understanding

          GOD’s Judgement

          My Question is — Did you sincerely ask GOD to reveal you the truth of the passage (incidents happened) ?
          Did you take a simple measure to approach GOD to know what was His intention ?

          Honestly look at all your questions..You have already decided GOD is bad and Evil..Dont you??? … Answer from your heart…

          Your mind has already been poisoned to BELIEVE GOD IS EVIL by deceptive philosophies of the world…

          I tell you one wonderful lesson which GOD taught me…

          Once GOD asked me do you trust me as you trust your brother ???

          I was very surprised by that question…

          Let me tell how i am bonded to my brother..Though I am a grown up person earninng on my own….till my bank account is handled by my brother…All my finance and needs are taken care by my brother…
          Even if he withdraws from my account a lakh or more money i never question him… You know Why? Because i Trust Him.. I know he will not cheat me…I know he will not misuse my money…
          I know he loves me…I know he honors my trust on him…

          Even my colleagues,relatives,friends used to wonder how you are like this…it is impossible at this generation…
          They used to say don’t trsut your brother like this…They come up with stories(media,newspaper) of brothers being cheated and robbed and betrayed etc,..
          Their suggestions,advice,Warnings are only based on their understanding..Did atleast one of them knew my brother in person..How come they jumped into conclusion that he might change in the future to cheat/betray me?

          You know why i was NOT bombarded by their deceptive philosophies because “I KNEW MY BROTHER”…

          I encourage you stop knowing about GOD and begin to know GOD..GOD is Real and He is Living…He can Speak to you..He can give you understanding to know Him…
          The Peace that He gives surpasseth all the understanding…Have you ever that peace in your life brother? I know it is real…Because…I have experienced that Peace which surpasses all understanding…
          Have you received the Joy of Salvation into your heart which is unspeakable…? Salvation is real and Joy of Salvation is even more Real…I have experienced it and with own eyes saw people being filled with Joy unspeakable…

          Finally, i want to share a testimony…What is salvation and Joy of Salvation would do…

          Once i was returning from office, I dint have money in my wallet..i was crossing an old man with dirty clothes…GOd inspired me to give him money…I said to the Lord, i don’t have money in my wallet as i was travelling past him. The Lord said take money from ATM and Give him.
          Then i found an ATM on the way , I took the money and returned to meet him. I met him and gave him the money..he simply thanked me and kept the money in his pocket. But the SPirit of GOd asked me to share him about the Living GOD and Hope of eternal life ,Peace,Joy,resurrection…
          He was an iliterate man. He has never been to school at all…But When he heard the Truth of GOD…Peace of God entered his heart and he was filled with such a Joy that his dark,dirty face began to shine forth..I am the witness for it…
          Only then i realized the truth of the following verse – Gospel of Christ is power of GOD unto Salvation….

          When i gave him the money he dint even care to see, was not happy and peaceful that he got the money a complete stranger… But When i spoke about GOD. When GOD himself touched him..
          HE was filled with unspeakable Joy and Peace…It is True salvation…

          Salvation is identified by PEACE and JOY which GOD gives….

          TO KNOW GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE…

          Let us fly above all the knowing to know THE ALL KNOWING GOD!!!

        32. Ex_b

          You seem to miss the point highlighted by richard. I’ll highlight it again.

          // Without God we have no basis for calling anything “good” or “evil”.//

          Do you realize that the exit from garden of Eden was not because of disobedience. The spell of eating apple was more sinister than you have conjured. Apple is not mere disobedience. Neither is cross mere forgiveness. You seem to miss the point of Christianity an Bible by assuming apple as mere disobedience and cross as mere forgiveness. It is about prerogative of defining good and evil. Who inherits the right to define good and evil? You seem to talk as if you understand the whole Bible and then reveal by your speech that you missed the basic story with which it began and with which it ends.

          You must understand that the definition of good and evil will become relative when there is more than one entity in a system. In such a case the prerogative must reside with supreme being otherwise the system crashes by internal conflicts. That is why the whole system is designed to learn the lesson by experience. That is why the experiment cannot be called good or evil by us based on our own definitions. The only good is to surrender to the authority of one who is perfectly wise to define good and evil. Otherwise either someone else’s prerogative will anihilate you or your prerogative will anihilate someone else. Or some day God has to say “enough is enough, time is over.”

        33. @ Nath…it’s not that I missed the point about “Without God there is no good and evil”….I have heard this argument over and over again from Christian apologists like Ravi Zacharias, etc. and I find it baseless…

        34. But doesn’t good and evil become relative then? In a system of entities who each think they are wise enough to define good and evil, doesn’t good and evil become relative? That is why the story of apple in Bible makes sense, which informs the readers why men became autonomous defining good and evil.

          Would you say Provisional morality (from link u provided) ? Haha..that is only relative morality coined with another name to dupe people. And therefore the video itself is showing the need of supreme being (in their pov they are referring to be subjective to government).

          By giving exceptions to example of evil called murder he (Michael Shermer) is proving that definition of good or evil is to be taken by someone more wise who weights good and evil in terms of society in general based on his wisdom rather than set rules. And that makes your blame on God as proud or not humble or cruel, void, because you seem to challenge the wisdom of supreme being in context of fixed definitions in your mind. This is the effect of apple and this is just one example in more complex day to day life.

        35. Look at the funny and foolish topic..

          If there is NO GOD, is Murder Evil?

          If there is NO GOD….will there be human beings and world to talk about “is Murder Evil or Good”?

          It is hilarious that speaker talk about moral consciousness and democratic laws as a conclusion…if moral conscience is Natural why one’s moral conscience is different from other…why a killers conscience is different from the person getting killed …why it is not generic among individuals,group,states,countries etc,..

          Lets consider few examples below…

          They display foolishness so artistically that naive people look at them with awe as if they have some substance…

          Where do you get moral conscience? He said it is in Nature…
          what about moral conscience of cannibals…is it not their nature… why do who want educate them rather providing your body as a meal…is not their democratic law as per moral conscience to kill other human beings for their food…

          What about certain tribes who lives with diverse women with No system of marriage and family…what about their moral conscience and democratic laws…

          How about certain african tribes killing their first born to get rain in due season….they have No religious book or oracles…but their moral conscience taught them so..

          How about so called educated and wise men shamelessly eyeing another man’s wife …How about the rapist When questioned said i felt the urge to rape whatever women(young and old) i see…
          How about child abuse in well educated and secular sectors…is their moral conscience right??

          How would you define which and whose moral conscience and democratic laws is correct??

          How foolish is he talk about democratic laws…does he even know those laws are based on the religious beliefs…since Britain ruled most part of the world …laws based in all those countries are derived from the HOLY Bible…

          Suppose for the sake of arguement , i consider the second part of the statement… Is Murder Evil without God?

          Speaker said we all know it is wrong…
          What a height of foolishness…!!! How would you know it is wrong
          , is the question here…without God saying or inspiring your heart

          If Murder is wrong according to your moral conscience (ideally not possible without God saying or inspiring) for the sake of arguement if taken…
          Why you overlook animals killing each other as a part nature…why cant you educate animals about moral conscience ?? Stop Murder happening all around with moral conscience with your ability…they speak as if they have all knowledge and power to recreate and run the world…

          If God has not said it is wrong…we will be all like animals killing each for various reasons…

          If Moral conscience will do …then why broadcasting “Skeptic” to corrupt people’s mind with your folly…

          Now …you will shoot back me with QUESTIONS asking …
          If GOD is there , why there is Murder?
          If GOD is there, why He allowed people to Murder and call it Evil??

          All corrupted mind will pop up these QUESTIONS and satisfying their pride and arrogance as if they have asked a wish and unanswerable QUESTIONS…

          Find my ANSWERS below
          Because God is there, there is something called Murder else it is considered as a natural phenomena as some corrupted and Fallen men calling some unnatural behaviours as Natural in these last days…(i am not elaborating on behaviours since it deviate from the core topic)

          Because God is there, Murder is considered to be evil to impart moral values in human’s heart…if Murder is said evil by God…you wont be having moral conscience not democratic laws created based out of God’s words and inspiration…

        36. Let us consider a scenario you are designing a game…

          First you design the environment (background,properties)
          Then create main character (car,bike etc,.)
          Now you have game background and characters created
          For our convenience will consider car grace game.
          You have the track and cars created.

          Can you play the game? No

          Why?

          You need rules to be set for the game to be lively…
          How do you define rules?
          Can you define a rule without positivity and negativity…? Impossible…
          A rule is identified with positive effect if you oblige and negative effect if you break…

          This is How car thinks if the rule is easy to win the game ..

          designer is good ..

          If the rule is not easy and failing to oblige resulting in disqualification…

          Designer is bad…

          As per cars knowledge all it knows is…tracks,prize,upgrade,competitors,medals ,…it will come to judgement based only on its knowledge…

          Based on its knowledge it thinks designer is fool and evil to have created a Long lap and given little time to finish thats why i could not finsih the race…
          And continues to ask the designer – How can you call me a loser and disqualify me from the race…when the blame is on your part to have created a faulty game..

          On hearing all the voices from the cars of the game which you have designed…How would you perceive..?? Wont you laugh at their ignorance…dont you??

          First of all…does the car have a say honestly…?
          Because you created it out of nothing…you gave the car the ability to accelerate…you gave the discernment to access the rules…you gave encouragement by showing medals/honors…you gave the car the company by giving competitors….
          All the more …you have DONE something amazing as follows…

          You wanted to prove and show the cars it is possible to win the race by getting into your own game by sending your son as a car…and also you gave the failing cars a LIFELINE (new hope.)..saying whoever is identified with your son(car) – LIFELINE though unable to fulfill the rule thereby disqualified to destruction…can able to restore back to new life and new power to win…

          But even then the cars are blaming you for creating such a bad game with bad rules…

          Who is evil ???

          Answer me honestly…

          Designer – who has DONE EVERYTHING to save his own product … Who has proved the cars that game with its rules is not impossible to win by sending your son in the very image of cars to win on behalf of them….Who has provided new LIFELINE to the disqualified cars to comeback to the game…
          OR

          Cars – who despises the car(your son) VICTORY and denies the lifeline by unbelief but continues to blame the designer because things were not DONE as per Cars knowledge and idea…thereby concluding the designer evil…

        37. Dear ex_b,
          I am glad you have questions. We all have questions. Even God allows questions when He says in Isaiah 1:18 – “Come and let us reason together..” But the point is, what will you do if you get answers to your questions? Are you ready to change your current stance about God if one of us satisfactorily, with strong and valid reasoning, answer your questions?
          Why I say this is, as Scottish author & Christian Minister George MacDonald once said, “To give truth to him who loves it not is to only give him more multiplied reasons for misinterpretation.” and I don’t want to be guilty of that.
          So tell my friend, are you open for an unprejudiced Q&A session? Are you ready to challenge your new-found beliefs?

        38. I’ve always loved truth and still love truth…If by “current stance about God” or ” new-found beliefs”, you mean disbelief, I have to say that I don’t consider myself an atheist for purely intellectual reasons…that being said yes, I find the basic “story” of Christianity too silly to believe as a literal truth……I am open to a Q&A session but only within this platform…coz I have “wasted” enough time in debates and religious reasonsings…which started with me questioning the stupid legalistic TPM teachings…I am on a path of recovery and the only reason I comment here is because I really appreciate some people rising up boldly against such mental torture….I am ready to change my beliefs if I am convinced in my rational brain that I am not holding onto beliefs because of silly reasons like fear, adherence to the norm, etc…

        39. Then you’ve set the stage! 🙂 I’m glad. Thanks for the opportunity for a healthy Q&A session. So before we being, let me tell you, I was a hard-core TPM member till the light of the truth of Christ shone on me. It’s been not very long and the after-effects are still lingering, but life is better now. I too found it hard to digest some of the silliest traditions & rules that they have in tpm. Nevertheless, I’m out and so are you. But I still believe in Christ and consider Him as my personal Lord and Saviour, what’s with you? Mind sharing a brief background as well as your current belief before we proceed?

        40. Dear ex_b, why do you rant so much against God’s plan for your salvation? God is love. God is holy. God is righteous and he is just. God’s whole plan is truly amazing and if you read the Bible with a true desire to learn about God you will fall down before him and say Sorry God. Please forgive me. Because God is truly good. And you will see this because he sent Jesus down from heaven to give you the gift of life and life abundantly.
          Just as you love your earthly parents, you seek to do what they want you to do. Likewise, also God wants us to show the same love to him by doing what he wants. God knew that old serpent would come against Adam and Eve because Satan is the adversary of God (and man). But God’s whole plan has meant that if we believe on Jesus who came into the world, who suffered, died, was raised to life, and ascended unto the Father, we too shall never die (the second death) and will one day see him face to face. May God bless you and lead you.

        41. Sorry ex_b for using the word “rant” in my previous post. Please forgive me of its offence. I will share this song because it tells of God’s love towards us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. God calls us to repent and to believe the gospel and accept Jesus as our personal Saviour.

          I had a debt I could not pay,
          He paid the debt He did not owe,
          I needed someone,
          To wash my sins away.
          And now I sing a brand new song,
          “Amazing grace” all day long,
          Christ Jesus paid the debt,
          That I could never pay.

        42. @Believer in Christ…No offense taken at the “rant” usage, but I was rather irked by your apparent assumption that I havent’ done all those things you said in…” if you read the Bible with a true desire to learn about God you will fall down before him and say Sorry God. Please forgive me…”…..I have read the Bible inside out and only with a true desire to learn about God..and its rather condescending for others to assume I haven’t…I am not blaming you…I myself have been guilty of doing that during my TPM days…

        43. Dear Ex_b, Thank you for your kindly response. God knows you, your sincerity of heart. God will help you. God bless you. I share a verse with you in Christian love; it reveals that God is a relationship God to me.
          “In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.” God bless.

  5. Thomas

    Please…i beckon you to read the below verses diligently…May God hold not the sin of blasphemy against you…

    1 Corinthians 15
    20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he “has put everything under his feet.”c Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

    Do you Dare to compare mere mortal and his filthy righteousness (Isa 64:6) to Wonderful,marvelous and incomprehensible work of awesome eternal HOLY savior Lord God JESUS CHRIST…

    LOOK WHAT HAS HE DONE…THE PERFECT VICTORY OVER EVERYTHING…HOLY TRUE RIGHTEOUSNESS…CAN ANYONE REFUTE???

    Yet after having achieved PERFECT HOLINESS AND PERFECT RIGHTEOUSNESS AND WORTHINESS TO BE CALLED TRUE OVERCOMER
    HE HUMBLED HIMSELF SO THAT HIS FATHER GOD TO ALL IN ALL….

    I LOVE THIS LORD….I LOVE THIS LORD…WHAT A GOD I SERVE ….WHAT A GOD I SERVE….WHAT A MIGHTY GOD I SERVE….WHO CAN FATHOM HIS WISDOM…

    *FOR WE DID NOT LEARN CHRIST THIS WAY*

    Thomas dont loose your salvation by trying to defend a mere man who is bound to err and fall
    but what have you quoted and professed is a blasphemy May God forgive you….How daringly you quoted…Bcoz of His Mercies and Long sufferings you are not consumed…Repent and ask of His forgiveness…

  6. Hi

    copy pasting from the article,
    **He said that TPM servants and apostles and apostolic ministry of TPM will have a place in between cherubim in most holy place**

    Dear Admin, can you please share why you quoted that the pastor mentioned TPM servants in that .. as in the 2 min audio he never mentioned the word TPM.

    1. Dear Henry
      You said well..He did not mention “TPM” by name.
      But are you so new to TPM to not understand what he meant?
      That is the subtle cunningness of TPM ministers.They will never mention the words TPM or NTC or CPM . But when they do mention about apostolic ministry of consecrated people or similar wordings, it means they are pointing towards themselves. You seem to be a new person who has not yet matured in TPM Lingua franca.
      The TPM deception is very subtle and laden with strong mind control techniques.

    2. Henry, whenever tpm ministers preach such things, exclusivity of tpm is implied. They never say it openly to maintain a false sense of humility. For example tpm will never say only they go to heaven(New Jerusalem and Zion by TPM’s understanding). But when you actually dig deep, what they say is only those who follow all the rules and doctrines of tpm will be found there. They’ll say those who take medicine will not be seen at the second coming of christ (the implication being only TPM believers who follow these doctrines will go as no other church teaches such insanity)

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