Amway Marketing and Pagan practices in TPM

By now you might have been familiar with some of the general deceptive techniques that happen in TPM. These techniques are universal across the board in TPM. However, some weird anomalies are very obvious which needs to be pointed out.  The purpose of this article is to expose some of these practices and persons involved in it. We are also aware that the top echelons of TPM are considering these as things which can be ignored.

First of all, I want to expose the deceptive method of many self-glory seeking among TPM ministers. Some of them allure innocent people to join the ministry not because they love the ministry but to gain promotions in the sight of their superiors. I have a strong feeling that even in this area the ministers compete with one another. Some ministers lure people for ministry to have a name that in the tenure of so & so many were revived to join the ministry.

The Amway System of Marketing

Amway System and Pagan practices in TPM
Pastor Shyam Sundar

One such person is the current Nagpur Centre, Pastor Shyam Sunder. He is very much ahead of this cut-throat competition. He is a man who wants to have name, fame and be in the good books of the leaders. In order to fulfill his dirty plans, he doesn’t even relent from stealing the people who are not in his jurisdiction. I would like to bring your notice one of those incidents. After serving as a Centre Pastor in Baroda for nearly two years he was transferred to Nagpur. There was a boy called Samuel in Baroda center and he was doing a job. He was persuaded by Pastor Shyam Sunder to leave the job and then somehow managed to migrate him to Nagpur. The next March he was taken to Chennai to be ordained a minister. After his two years training he was transferred to Delhi center and there he became a nuisance to everyone. When he went out of control the leaders transferred him to Nagpur Centre where his life & ministry is devastated. Who should be blamed for this? Just to add a feather in his cap Pastor Shyam Sunder has almost destroyed the soul of that boy, Samuel. Didn’t Jesus say well in Mathew 23:15,Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.”

TPM Spirituality at its best

Lizards and Cats

If you happen to be in Nagpur, please try to attend one meeting there to discover new ways for the Zion Flight. As far as my association with him goes, I have found Pastor Shyam Sunder a self-righteous man, who boasts much about his taste & simple living. He is a man who puts all the blame on others if anything goes wrong but will never miss an opportunity to take all glory if things go well. A true leader is the one who owns all the blame on himself for any failure and gives credit to his team. He is afraid of witchcraft & evil spirits. If he spotted any lizard anywhere he wouldn’t be at rest until he chased and killed it. You know why? He has a superstition that lizard & cats are the instruments of the witches; these are sent by the witches to watch his every movement through the eyes of lizards & cats. Doesn’t it sound funny? Apostle John says, “There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love” [1 John 4:18]. If one has the perfect love he/she will not be afraid of any witchcraft or evil spirit and the perfect love comes through the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5). If Pastor Shyam Sunder has the Holy Ghost then why there is fear in him? My dear reader, are these the ministers leading you to perfection? How long will you be deceived & why are you lingering to come out of them who of course claim to perfect you but cannot?

Woman with Familiar Spirit

Romans 8:14 says, “for as many are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”  You decide if Pastor Shyam Sunder is being led by the Spirit of God. He has a set of sisters & one among them is very prominent, whose name is Sharada presently serving in Mumbai center. She is one of the advisors, who runs the show for him. I am not asking anyone seeking the prayer support from others. But why Pastor Shyam Sunder relies too much on her that he even asks her over the phone requesting to fast & pray for him the day he is supposed to preach in a convention. It’s being suspected that he even transfers the workers in his center according to her suggestions. Doesn’t he have the Holy Spirit to guide him or the Holy Spirit works only through Sharda? How is he different from Saul the first king of Israel, who sought the help of a witch to call Samuel for him?

Once this visionary sister saw a vision that devil is hiding in a wooden cot. Superstitious Shyam Sundar then ordered the wooden cot to be thrown into a well in the Nagpur convention ground. He then ensured that the wooden cot does not bother him by getting it covered with soil and rocks.

Observing of Days

Bible is very much against observing the days. In Galatians 4:9,10 “But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.” In St. Paul’s language all those who observe days, months & years are in the bondage of weak & beggarly elements. Pastor Shyam Sunder according to reliable source observe new moon(Amavasya) & full moon(Poornima). During these days he is confined to his room with the excuse of Fasting. He thinks that the devil is out to attack him during these special days. I am not against the fasting but my question is why he fasts particularly on these days?

Conclusion

My dear TPM diehards, you consider ministers like Shyam Sunder, great saints, but ask yourself why a saint is subject to all these unspiritual businesses? Being under the bondage of such things how can such ministers deliver you from bondages & lead you to perfection? I as a writer for the site plead you to come out of such denomination where ministers such as Shyam Sunder are under the yoke. Make haste, don’t linger anymore. Run for your life.

34 Comments on “Amway Marketing and Pagan practices in TPM”

  1. Another practice borrowed from pagans is the practice of boiling milk and letting it spill over during house warming ceremony. I suspect this practice is widespread even outside TPM? I’m not sure. But such practices makes one place faith in a packet of milk for protection than God. It’s same with every superstition. It makes one place faith in a created being than the Creator. A certain pastor in Bangalore too is obsessed with demons. One Sunday the whole sermon was about satan and demons. The pastor was like we shouldn’t disturb Satan else he might come after us. I couldn’t help but shake my head at what I was hearing. How could people live under the fear of satan and yet call themselves Christians? That dude’s head is crushed!




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    1. When Indians (as gentiles) became Christianised, they stayed true to their pagan roots- for the sake of cultural identity.

      It pains me to hear all this stuff, even amongst my close relatives and siblings within TPM, that the cross is not their trophy or identity.

      Sometimes, its very trying to tackle all this and explain this to family, forget about the church, and so annoying that the social identity of TPM is identified with no jewels/ no TV/ no jeans… and yes yes yes to everything their Adamic man in their ancient customs stood for.

      In a sense, there is an underlying that Indian Christianity is better than Western Christianity, that’s why the hue and cry about decor and white clothes during weddings.

      The cheap gossip and the ungainly gathering, not to discount the untidy convention campuses, all point out to a certain ‘Prince of Indianism’ and low thinking that rules churches like TPM.

      The faithhome set up and politics is so much like a daughter-in-law/ Mother-in-law soap opera.




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        1. Brother ,
          There is only one Way(Margam) to the Father. That Margam is none other than Jesus Christ. However, TPM is bringing its own specialization of a new Margam called “Consecrated Servants of God”. So it is an established point that TPM is actually Thetti Poya Margam




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        2. Dear love TPM,
          To the best of my knowledge, no clarification required as far as the credibility of TPM is concerned. This is completely thetti poya marggam (തെറ്റി പോയ മാർഗ്ഗം) or thalli poli mission (തല്ലി പൊളി മിഷൻ). The actions of both believers as well as the white clad day time saints perfectly display it. Saints always usurp Jesus and believers brag their saints without giving importance bible and Jesus.




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  2. In order to understand why cats are deified/ adored/ venerated/ abhorred/ shoo’d away, we need to understand a little bit about Egyptology.

    Like many civilizations did, Egyptians believed in polytheism mixed with pantheism. ie many gods who created their own races, and that these gods look around to protect their own kind from another god’s creation.

    So it was believed that the yellow river/chinese were from the reptile gods and the persians from the lion/cat gods.

    Egyptians who believed in demi-god hierarchies also thought that there could be hierarchies in the animal kingdom with the fiercest creature having some semi-divinity attached to it.

    As Egypt, settled into a farming community, they began to lose their reverence for nature worship, unlike the harsher civilizations of the orient and Siberia and India to an extent.

    But, there was an immediate need for cats to protect the granaries of the kingdom, from rodents. The Pharaoh tried to collect all the cats from his people but could not… so we declared that cats are not mere animals, they are divine witches and it should be worshipped.

    The king did that only because he wanted them to keep rats away, but this idea passed on very quickly to the other parts of the world and soon cats were either feared or loved.

    Cats were loved in Asia and not feared, in fact in India, snakes are feared and yet worshipped.
    In Persia and Europe, cats were either worshiped or feared, the color mattered more than its size.

    Soon cats happened to be buried in the mummies of Egypt, and high raking cats had their own burial with a procession and flowers.

    When Christianity set in, in Europe, they saw this whole stuff as non sense and they tried to educate the common man that cats are not to be worshipped.

    When fear is mixed with truth, meaning is always twisted and so, instead of cats losing their relevance in human lives, they were seen as embodiments of evil.

    Witches used cats to spread evil in pagan Europe, and later in Christian Europe, cats were still considered evil whereas Witches ceased to exist, formally at least.

    Stealing a cat was considered to be a punishable offense until thousand years ago, in most developed countries of the world, because of the usage of cats as a medium of magick on its own owners.

    In Islam, the cat was more respectable to the man than his first wife. We all know how the prophet Mohd.. cut off his garment because he realised he could not disturb the cat that was sleeping on his arm.

    When cats were distanced from the households, vermin and rodents increased- this caused more reverence to the cat and this cycle continues in every civilization- TRUST ME- to this day, but in subtle forms.

    Americans rear and domesticate cute lizards- why? Because they keep cockroaches from breeding…. and cats in Indian homes- why? to check the nuisance of rats.
    Rats were worshiped by the Philistines- why? The Phoenicians considered themselves to be separate from the Egyptian race as well as from the original HAN race in China.

    Its another story that the present Inner Mongolia and Western provinces of China belong to the race of Heth/Hittites from where we get the name ‘CATHAY’

    So, this is my long & boring introduction to why paganism is walking the ramp in cat like style in Christianity.

    Illiterate and superstitious Christians in India, will not understand how evil such a fear is.




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  3. People in TPM consider late chief Pastors, like A C Thomas, Jacob Ratnasingham, SB Ernest etc etc.. as very great men. They hardly know about them. Not even I know them, but am image is created that these men were very close to God. I am not saying that these were bad. I don’t know. All I am trying to say is, that 20-30 years down the line, may be after death of Pastor Shyam Sunder, he will become hero. An image will be portrayed about him as great great saint. They will not know he was such a superstitious fellow. They will hide all such things. They will write great things about him in their magazines and new workers will start preaching and praising good things about Shyam sunder… At such time only those people who knew his superstitious spirit, will know the actual truth. Some of them will become old and will be gone away… Rest for others, it would be counted scandalous to say anything about Shyam Sunder. People will then make remark, “Oh my God, he is opening his mouth against such a great man of God, … He doesn’t fear God to say anything about man who was mightily used by God”..and so on…

    The point is that if I were to say something about Freddy Paul or Pastor Don, people in tpm will say same words about me ..” Oh my God, he doesn’t fear God to speak evil about such a saintly man.” Why? Because an image is created about them that they were very very close to God. However if i were to say anything about Alwyn, people will not argue much or defend much…

    The problem right now with us is, that we don’t know anything about the so called Tpm greats…..and the people who know them will keep the secrets with them and die, leaving coming generation to be deceived by TPM… Had there been a website like fromtpm in those days, then we would have known. Right now we have no such information other than the hype that Tpm have created after their death..

    The question that comes to my mind is how do we know that so called TPM greats like SB Ernest or Freddy Paul or Pastor Don were indeed so close to God.. that Tpm believers conclude this ministry was started by God ..

    It is just a question to think !!




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  4. THANKS TO FROMTPM.COM
    I share my testimony here. I am from southern Tamilnadu.I don’t know about Jesus till my youth stage. I completed my bachelor degree in a college very far away from my native by staying in college hostel. There my seniors took me to a spiritual church(not TPM). At my final year that church’s Pastor and his wife started taking care of me like their own child(I am a fatherless girl, my father died at my age of 2). That divine love and care made lead me to the true living God and finally I received salvation at my final year. I started praying to God daily and within few days of my salvation God spoke to me that he have called myself and my future husband for doing His ministry. So I started seeking God’s will for my future husband. Since my family was not saved, I faced a lot of struggle at my family side regarding my marriage(since I asked my family, a saved boy). At last through a sister I got into TPM, since she told that TPM is the best church than any other church. I believed that innocently and stepped in to that church. Miraculously my marriage happened within 3 months after stepping into TPM. God gave me the correct person according to His will. After hearing my spouse testimony in person I came to know that he was a saved boy and I was very happy. But I don’t know anuthing about TPM at that time.At the time of my marriage in 2014 my husband got transferred to Delhi. I also went with him.
    At Delhi, there was a Tamil AG church nearby in our area. But my husband does not take to that AG church. Instead he takes me to a TPM faithome which is some how far away from our area. In that faithome their is no Tamil translation. So I don’t understand their songs and sermons. So, I asked my husband to take me to that tamil AG church. But he refused. So I started thinking why my husband was seeing such denomination difference(Before marriage I went to many other churches where I have met many people who loves one another without any denominational difference). In the meantime my husband got transferred to Chennai. After coming to Chennai in 2015, we started going to a TPM faith home nearby Irumbuliyur HQ. There I heard many times preaching about Zion and New Jerusalem It was new to me. So I started searching about TPM Zion and new Jerusalem. Nowhere I found in the bible as it was differently interpreted by TPM. Moreover, I asked my husband regarding the same. But he was unable to answer correctly. Within a short period many things in TPM hurted my heart a lot( no love between believers, making the TPM servants as God, looking down of other denomination Christians, not having fellowship with other denomination Christians, spiritual pride). So I asked my husband to take me to a good church. Because of this many disputes arose between both of us. So I started to shed my tears to God, regarding this unbiblical doctrines in TPM(since I am not ready to loss my spiritual life) and my dispute with my husband regarding this. Gradually my husband started to keep firm faith in God’s word alone( In the past days he will believe whatever that is preached in TPM is true). Now he does not see any denominational difference. He takes me to meetings of many true servants of God without seeing any denominational difference. God spoke to him also regarding the ministry call and we are now we started praying together for God’s will in His ministry.GLORY TO GOD ALONE.
    MY QUESTIONS REGARDING TPM:
    Why TPM believers
    1.Look down on other denominational true Christians?
    2.Don’t have fellowship with other denominational true Christians?
    3.Giving more importance to TPM traditions rather than God’s word?
    4.Believe those unbiblical doctrines innocently?
    5.Believe TPM servants blindly?(They are also normal human being as us)
    6.Telling “sthothiram sthothiram” mantra, daily morning instead of pouring the heart all alone to the loving father in prayer?
    Thanks to fromtpm.com which confirmed and cleared most of my doubts regarding TPM unbiblical practices.




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    1. That is great to hear. TPM doesn’t hold scripture as the highest authority. Such a notion is the main reason for unbiblical teachings in TPM. May the Lord help you and your husband as you do His ministry.




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  5. Hello the Great TRUTH PROCLAIMING TEAM

    Now it is very clear with the above Article of Pas Shyam Sundar, the writer is none other than J*** M***** the Rapist whom the TPM ministers bear and silently transferred to Gujarat Centre from Punjab Centre. Finally, left TPM church from Gujarat. He posed before all the Gujarat believers as very intelligent & holy man and finally enjoyed sex with a sister (Sis C******) at the Church and when she got pregnant, she had no option but to leave TPM. She is 20 years younger to this Great Sex stalwart – J*** M*****.

    Such kind of Rapist when their hunger of sex is not quenched, all the ones who oppose them or correct them are depicted as Devil. As given to understand he was the most flirt whose eyes would run sharply to sisters body.

    In November 2015 convention, he proclaimed from the dias to all the young boys & girls to come out to serve the Lord and in March 2016 after smartly attending the Chenai Convention, the next day he left the ministry after accumulating a good sum of money. Now its clear that how sweetly & lovely he is enjoying his sex life with that Sis C****** and with the TPM money he started a new concept of accussing the ministers of TPM.

    Oh dear readers, pls refrain from such adulterers who all has their clear dirty pictures available handy but they wont reveal their identity here and hence, they remain hidden and like devil taking the word of God and accussing Ministers of TPM – just exactly devil accussed Jesus. Let your eyes be opened now not later like Judas Iscariots.

    These fromtpm.com team are the generations & heritages of Judas Iscariot very clearly. Before its too late, pls refrain from these people’s sayings and sit at the feet of Lord & pray. Be faithful & true to Lord and doing so, heartily love the Saints of God (whether they are or not). Lord is in the control of every situation or every thing in TPM. There will be wheat & tares. But the fallen ones heritage all knows.

    Be away …. pls be away from this whoremongers & rapists.

    J*** M***** is the one who raped a sister of Punjab Centre and finally, she got mad – yes – mentally retarded and her relatives from Mumbai took her back to her home and she’s in Mental Hostel. Her relatives were die-hard to kill this J*** M***** but TPM Ministers transferred him to Gujarat Centre. Therefore, every time we were waiting to see him at Mumbai Convention, he was never sent from Gujarat as the Ministers feared that this guy – J*** M***** would be murdered by her relatives.

    This is one such case came to limelight but many of his activities many youths know like when he was posted at Ankleswar or Bharuch churches, he use to have sexual talks with believer sisters, unmarried young girls which was strongly heard.




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    1. Hello Mr.Jeremiah,
      From your comments it is very clear that you don’t know anything about God or Jesus and your god is none other than Pastor Shyam Sunder. I appreciate your audacity of accepting that you are agreeing with the writer 100% of his opinions regarding your god pr shyam sundar. This is the language your god Shyam Sundar taught you? Instead of understanding the content of the article you are trying the shoot the Imaginary assumed writer, ie, you are shooting the messenger.

      Who is interested in your absurd comments about the messenger (writer)? Sorry, your god Pr Shyam Sundar might have directed you to attack the messenger with the most filthy language which you have learned from your demi god. What is this ABCD of the imaginary writer?

      I know millions of great works done by your white clad day time saints worse than what you mentioned about this supposed writer. Why are you keeping quiet about Pr Raju Vaughese from Munnar caught with over 15 million rupees? His girlfriends are spread all over Kerala. Now he is completing his lent days at Cherthala Convention centre. What about the contraceptive flushed along with body of Sister Ammini from Kottarakkara Faith home? What about brutal killing of Pr Kanakaraj at Thoothukudy faith home? What about your saint impregnated a young believer at Coimbatore faith home? What about the affair of late (killed) pr philip chandapillai with many sisters at Delhi? Kindly ask all these questions to you god pastor shyam sundar and comment on this site.

      Remember, nobody can take you to heaven except Jesus. Read bible without TPM (തെറ്റി പോയ മാർഗ്ഗം) lens.

      Moreover, I feel your comments are purely a matter of conjecture filled with vested interest instigated by shyam sundar your god.

      To the writer, I don’t know your identity. Even is all those things mentioned by this crook Jeremiah is right, I appreciate your courage to share and expose all these so called saints. I won’t blame you, it is the impact of the this deadly system called tpm where unmarried and unrelated people of opposite sex stay under the same roof . May Almighty strengthen you more and more to expose more of these day time saints? Thank God for giving you the discerning power?




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    2. But Mrs Bijoy
      From what i know Pastor Shyam had also a rape case against him. Quite a few times he produced fake medical certificate to avoid going for the hearing. Am i not right?




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      1. Jeremiah (Mrs Bijoy), as admin pointed out there was a rape case against your saint pastor Shyam Sundar. Finally Pastor Shyam Sundar came out unconvicted using the money and machinery of TPM. You wrote a big lecture on your imaginary writer of this article. Instead of understanding the message you are trying to shoot the messenger. What is your relationship with this not convicted saint (case may be framed) to vehemently support all his superstitious, unbiblical approach. If your saint got the benefit of doubt from court, why I should not do the same the writer? It is a very clear act of vested interest.




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    3. Thank you, Jeremiah, for confirming the words of this site. You have indeed confirmed that just like RCC, TPM too just transfers criminals from one centre to the other. Maybe you have just helped(unwittingly) many believers who were adamant that TPM does no such thing to see the light.




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  6. Dear Jeremiah, let’s believe your assumptions. Yes, i’m giving you the benefit of the doubt even though your argument is hollow, fabricated and illogical. But still, guess what, let’s believe your assumptions. But tell me something, if this person committed rapes in Punjab, why didn’t The Centre Scamster(pastor) or The Chief Scamster(pastor) kick him out of Tpm and hand him over to the police for committing a crime that is punishable according to the Indian Penal Code?? You’re claiming he had sex at the church with some sister who got pregnant and had to leave tpm. So i’m guessing someone who saw them having sex came and told you about it. My question is, why weren’t people alerted then and why weren’t they put to public shame because of what they did? Why are such activities protected by Tpm? We at fromtpm do not support murderers, rapists and whoremongers, we are infact against the system that hides them and supports such shady business, and sadly Tpm does that. Tpm is the fortress for all kinds of criminals. Criminal in 1 centre is transferred to another centre in the facade of a saint. Let me clarify something, i do not personally know the guy you’re talking about, but I’m really interested in knowing how you justify yourself by blaming the person and not blaming the system that protects immorality and lewdness. And yes, you said “TPM money”, please enlighten me on what “TPM money” is. TPM scumbags live by ripping off believers, they beg from the rich and threaten the poor to give them money, so how does the believers’ money become “TPM money”? Kindly help me understand.




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  7. Folks,

    Let us once again take care to represent the character of Christian articleship while we comment against one another.

    Many non Christians and neutral readers who read these pages should not be misled about Christianity altogether.

    Let differences and vendetta be shaded before the gospel of glory- which is ‘Christ indwelling in us, as hope’

    A humble appeal- I personally wish that only the failings of the mission be brought to light, and that no personal scores be settled- advertently or otherwise.

    If a member of TPM decides to destroy the character/intent of the web journalist, it is not correct. At the same time, snowballing and mudslinging should be discouraged, else even serious topics will be lost in the carnival of provocative commentary.




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    1. I agree. The focus should be on proclaiming the truth and uncovering unbiblical teachings in TPM so that people stop believing lies. Mud slinging doesn’t benefit anyone.




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  8. Oh wow Jeremiah is Jaya Bijoy? Jaya can you please tell me what is your secret relation with Shyam Sunder? What prompted you to write so much against Jose? When the site exposed some other individuals you had nothing to comment but when Shyam Sunder is exposed then you acted like a wounded female Comrade & shamelessly wrote the filthy language. It means Shyam Sunder is very special to you. Isn’t it? I can sense that how hypocrite you are. I have seen you speaking to Jose so many times when he was inside our TPM. You did speak to him with all these information in your mind, am I right? That time you had no objection to speak to him but now when he is out of your hypocritical group he is a rapist. Wow! Great Mrs. Bijoy! Instead of going after your Shyam Sunder you plz sit & pray for your ruined family. I would that you first set your family right. I know that you are one of the prominent tale bearer in your area. Stop that & clean your courtyard, God will bless you.




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  9. I am really so vexed out now… We came to TPM after seeing all wordiness, celebrity styles of preachers, money,money,money….control…control… no or little preaching on separated from world, overcoming life style in other churches..

    But the same here in TPM also in different blanket.. even worst spiritual pride with NO LOVE and high degree of Hypocrisy.. At least other churches I dint see it to this extent..

    my question is… Is must/necessary for a believer to under one congregation?
    EX-Minister in TPM here.. I have few questions..

    what do you do for your fellowship?
    DO you still continue your ministry?
    What really GOD expects of a beleiver? ( As TPM preaches how to obtain Perfection in Love, Faith , Holiness and Doing Perfect will of God..)

    Bro Denezel Joy, you could shed some light on this… Please help us ..

    Here (US) it is so hard to find an fellowship or church .. We are not looking for super spiritual church. Group of believers/church with some authentic spirit tries to overcome self, world and satan..
    God Bless You All….




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    1. Dear Sister Truth Please,

      Thank you for the comment. It is refreshing to read and know that you sincerely seek the milk of the word and not any man-made potion for spiritual health.

      I quit the TPM mission because I had an utter mental break-down, seeing hypocrisy, evil speaking, backbiting and verbal sins.

      I had a short but powerful confrontation with my leader- he is not a pastor.

      I took me less than 2-3 days, to completely make up my mind and leave.

      When they knew they were losing me, they made it look like as if I was thrown out because of a sexual dalliance (far from it… God knows the truth)

      My family was encouraged not to accept me, but to have an air against me….
      I cared less, but the truth is that affected me very much.
      I soon realised that no one other than my mother was even in a position to make head or tail of what am going through…
      Call it illusion or afflction of demonic spirits etc.. it was a personal battle, I many times, felt the Lord also rejected me.
      People would chide me for having pretended to be a super righteous person and that all my sufferings are the cost of sin.

      That’s when I turned to talking to God- I stopped praying, I started conversing with Jesus…. funny it might seem like- Hello Jesus, here I am, I feel empty within, I am pouring myself a cup of tea, but I forget that you poured yourself for me’
      I dont know whether you understand, but these conversations helped me immensely recover and become a follower of Christ.

      I started reading the Bible once again, did my own research, stopped going with opinions, however strong they are- for knowledge puffeth but love endureth.

      The Lord spoke to me a few times and told me that EVERY thing is for GOOD- PRAISE ME even if you seem lost or if there is no use of being a Christian. If you love me, you will serve me… If you love me, you will forgive others. If yo love me, you will be happy. If you love me, you will serve me. If you love me, you will know me.

      This is keeping me going… I preach at few home churches- once again I have faced trials of rejections there, but there is no love lost.

      To be very honest with you before God, I want to say this one thing-
      There are sincere workers in TPM- These sincere workers suffer a lot and some end up in sin, the other half ends up in spiritual pride.
      There is no environment where a senior will drop in and say hello to a junior… very rare and if it happened…. language and money did matter.

      I do not feel good speaking against the Church, because I know this means the sincere workers will suffer more than a perverted worker.

      Your questions sister:

      1.what do you do for your fellowship?
      2. DO you still continue your ministry?
      3. What really GOD expects of a believer? ( As TPM preaches how to obtain Perfection in Love, Faith , Holiness and Doing Perfect will of God..)

      I am doing a secular job and am in the sidelines, I visit several home churches and give my testimony. Many times, I have been invited to share the message… Again there, I do not feel real satisfaction because the host wants control.

      Am I doing a ministry? I do not know the answer- In TPM style, no- but I do other ministries like praying for orphans, and social counselling for poor Christians who are not exposed to real Christianity, esp in orphanages etc.
      I am due to visit a place called Atmakur in Telangana, as a donor from Texas suspects monetary fraud and mismanagement. So she has asked me to be her local guide and help me pass facts that she cant figure out. I dont know if this is a ministry, but I think it is.

      Your last question is very valid and I would like to answer that in my next comment, as I feel it might be lengthy.

      In short, I must conclude- Where there is no VISION, the people perish.

      Regards.




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      1. Denzel …what you went through is called religious trauma syndrome (RTS)..I suffered it too although I was not a worker like you …the mental struggle is huge ..kudos for coming out (hopefully) strong …




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        1. Brother XBW,

          As well as Stockholm syndrome, I guess, although I feel so bitter against them and family, within my mind.

          Coming from a family with no reliable support system, me leaving for the ministry looked like a traitor’s escape. My return only made them feel victorious and not sympathetic.

          That said, strangely, I relate more with my fellow workers than with family, because I feel they too like me, had no ‘reasoning’ as checkpoints in their spirituality.

          Spirituality without reasoning is very dangerous. We should be encouraged to ask questions, else Christianity will become another North Korea in the making.

          My faith in God is founded on love. When love is lost, faith and hope will also be shattered.
          Love can a deceptive step-mother, a kill joy nurse, a mewling possessive lover. When such a love is present, we know it is not the love of God. TPM festers such foster parenting or guardianship.

          The problem that TPM presents itself, especially to overzealous parents, is, they do not balance the loves and its emotions, they do not respect privacy, they do not treat kiddish fears with kidgloves.
          The love of God is Agape, at the same time, you need other kinds of natural affection in order to become a balanced Christian… eg. fraternal, parental love.

          In the ministry, we are taught ‘not to have the same feelings that a brother once had for his sister. We should crucify even those affections and love God even more… etc’
          All this non sense confuses a person to such an extent that he will lose his standing in Christ, will be thrown into a battle field of dogs and wolves… He will then become an ascetic in order to look for an overcoming life… He does not realise that when he steps down from grace, he is under the compulsion of Mount Sinai.

          The Spirit of God is not a confusing agent, but one who guides, mentors, shepherds, leads. When another person tries to control you, you do not realise that the spirit of God within you has been silenced.

          As am studying eschatology, I have my own doubts about the KJV. I do not tell this to just about anyone, as I feel it might cause dissonance. At the same time, my knowledge is too poor, for it to be shared as a ‘guess’

          I will give you just one example- Why did Paul exhort the women to scarve their heads? It is because of the angels. What is the reasoning- you will only find that in books like Jasher/Enoch. If these books were rejected by King James, then why did they continue to accord Paul’s exhortation as sacred/inspired?
          Secon Peter & Jude is wholly sourced from the Book of Enoch.

          The veil for the woman is more of a cultural thing, in my strong opinion. Jesus had he been here in this age would not have made that mandatory. The Greek festivities included women dancing in the temples of Diana/ Zeus etc and these converts found it awkward to adapt to Middle eastern Christian culture. While Paul gave so many concessions to the European Christians and was gentle towards them, he felt it was mandatory for the greek women not to look like prostitutes, esp. in the eyes of middle eastern Christians. So the whole thing is entirely a cultural imposition, in order to give this religion a sane look.

          Come to think of it, in the Eden garden the first couple had no clothing, but 42 generations down the line, women are asked to cover their head while worshipping?
          I have offended a lot of sensibilities, including CFC pastor Zac- He has been gracious to agree to disagree on this topic.

          Please forgive me if my comments are in the wrong placeholder.. it certainly seems off hand.




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        2. Denzel, A few comments on the canon of scripture. This discussion is right up my alley.

          I’m not a huge fan of the KJV myself but it is not the worst translation we have. King James did not “select” anything and neither did the translators. They merely translated what the church at that time held to be inspired scripture. The first edition of the KJV even had a separate section for the Apocrypha but they never considered the Apocrypha to be inspired. The source text used for the OT was the Jewish Hebrew bible and NT was from the Greek. Never in Christian history (or Jewish history) has the church accepted the book of Enoch to be inspired.

          In the present day there is no debate as to what the canon of NT is. Christians all over the world accept the 27 books as God-breathed scripture. The only debate (if any) surrounds the books from before the Christian era, i.e the OT. The Catholics and the orthodox accept varying numbers of apocryphal writings as scripture. The reason they do this is because they do not believe the canon was closed during the time of Christ, so they took it upon themselves to add these books that the Jews never considered to be inspired.

          My position is that the 39 books that we have in the OT are the only God-breathed books from before Christ. A few points in support of that.

          1. Romans 3:2 – “First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.” —— The OT was given to them. What they Jews considered scripture should be what Christians consider scripture w.r.t the OT. Jews never held the book of Enoch to be inspired.
          2. Whenever the writers of the NT quote from inspired OT scriptures, they usually precede the quote with “scripture says” or “it is written”. We have ZERO examples of any of the NT writers using such phrases when quoting from apocryphal writings. When Jude makes that statement, he doesn’t say “The book of Enoch says” or “scripture says” or “It is written”.
          3. The OT canon HAD to be closed when Jesus came, else he couldn’t fulfil it. If the content of what the Jews considered scripture was vague, Jesus couldn’t use scripture as the authority over them. When Jesus spoke to the Jews saying “scripture says”, they didn’t go “what scripture?”
          “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” (Luke 24:44)
          The verse mentions the three sections of the Jewish scripture, the Tanakh.
          4. Josephus, the early Jewish Historian confirms that the Jews had the same 39 books that we currently have. But since books like Kings and Samuel were combined into one, the number of books they had was 22, but the content were the same.
          “We have but 22 books, containing the history of all time, books that are believed to be divine. Of these, 5 belong to Moses, containing his laws and the traditions of the origin of mankind down to the time of his death. From the death of Moses to the reign of Artaxerxes the prophets who succeeded Moses wrote the history of the events that occurred in their own time, in 13 books. The remaining 4 books comprise hymns to God and precepts for the conduct of human life. From the days of Artaxerxes to our own times every event has indeed been recorded; but these recent records have not been deemed worthy of equal credit with those which preceded them, on account of the failure of the exact succession of prophets. There is practical proof of the spirit in which we treat our Scriptures; although so great an interval of time has now passed, not a soul has ventured to add or to remove or to alter a syllable; and it is the instinct of every Jew, from the day of his birth, to consider these Scriptures as the teaching of God, and to abide by them, and, if need be, cheerfully to lay down his life in their behalf.”
          5. Just because Jude quotes from Enoch (which is debatable), doesn’t mean the book of Enoch is inspired. Paul has had quoted from pagan poets. It doesn’t mean they are inspired, right?

          So to conclude, apart from the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, no Christian community has ever accepted the book of Enoch to be inspired. Certainly the early Jews held Enoch in the same regard as they held the book of Maccabees or Judith, but never believed it to be authoritative as the 39 books of the OT. We can get into the doctrinal issues contained in the book of Enoch and how it certainly wasn’t from the time period or from the author it is claiming to be, but that’s a discussion for another day. God bless.




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        3. Dear Brother,

          (My statement- I read KJV and fully realise it is a mere translation of the other textus receptus/ scrolls… I do not doubt the word of God, but I am convinced that compilation of texts into referenced indexed books and chapters is not divinely inspired… it is fallible and prone to human error and interpretation. I am willing to change my stand whenever the Lord shows it to me)

          Thank you for your lengthy and detailed responses. I really appreciate the honest tone and sincere rebuttals.
          Am much am not a great fan of TPM, and I do not believe that TPM is the divinely authorized mission, in the same vein I know that the many translations of the Bible came to outdo each other with the same superiority complex.
          The greatest advantage the 1611 version of KJV had was the liberty of hiding behind the ‘martyr’ garb and posing itself as the true sheep with an anti catholic appearance. Besides Latin was uncommon and English the common tongue.
          King James was a secret freemason and his intent was political (to unite all no catholics) and a clear case of bigotry (divine inspiration). Please read more about British Israelism and Zionism. Soon you will realise that TPM is the Indian variant of the same creed. It is by far, one of the best versions produced, but therein lies the damage…..
          Why did they hate Tyndale, Wycliffe, Geneva’s etc? Because they wanted King James to still be atop, or an English copy of papacy. They simply scorned earlier translations with indignity.
          Tyndale gave up his life because Church of England was in cahoots with the Vatican.
          (Back to your reply)
          I completely agree with your points 1, 2, 3. That takes nothing away from my stand anyways.
          Point 4 is a ‘point of view’ from a context am not debating about. But if we need to get into this point, I find it very vague… Am not a fan of Josephus. He was the biggest yesman among historians. He was not even an eyewitness…Maybe I should ask him what does he mean by ‘contents are the same’ The contents were not the same. Anyways, that was not my core debate with you, bro Richard.
          Point 5- I do not agree with your point of view, for when Paul is referring to Cretan poets, he specifically is condemning Cretans with the words of their own poets, we all understand Paul’s language, without a doubt… To compare Paul’s borrowed verbatim with ‘deemed apocrypha’ is unbalanced, in my humble opinion, brother.
          Do I consider the all the books in the Bible to be equally inspired to the same degree… NO
          Am I claiming that the book of Enoch is divine- not necessary.. I don’t make any claims as such.
          Atleast we should understand why it was rejected in the first place.
          During the inter-testament period, many writers arose, this caused great fear of corruption and forgery.
          The Book of Enoch, when it was discovered was found to be written in the Greek language, re translated into Latin & Ethiopic. After the fifth century, this book was mysteriously lost. For the fact that it was not originally in Hebrew (to be considered OT timeline) it failed this wonderful litmus test, firstly by the Catholics and then by Protestants.
          Newer discoveries of Dead Sea scrolls relating to the Book of Enoch, found in the previous century, in Jordan, written in Hebrew/Aramaic have thrown this refutation out of the window, emphatically embarrassing Jewish religious authorities more than the Protestants.

          When we hold the view that the Holy Scriptures begins with Genesis 1.1 and ends with Revelations 22. last verse, we might seem politically correct at church, parents and even in this forum.
          Brother, my earnest and sincere disposition is this- this point of view carries its own dangers- the danger of considering every other piece of scripture as ‘uninspired, writings of men, gnostic tares, doctrines of devils’ etc.
          We end up making the same argument that TPM makes about its apostolic authority.
          The whole process of grading books into Canon & Deutero-canon was the work of intellectuals and not of God.
          Historians and scholars trusted their godly wisdom and decided that certain parts need not be 100% inspired, some they felt were way less than 80% inspired- thus they began a process of ‘compilation’ only.
          Who are we to decide that this compilation is uninspired and that compilation is inspired.
          Again, am not batting for the book of Enoch, I have that book in my home library and I can say that having read it, so many vague verses become meaningful.
          I however do not recommend its usage at a church level owing to contradiction errors and for the fact that like the Psalms, it has 4 different authors compiled as one.
          Another common cause of confusion is people interchange esoteric with apocryphal. Initially the Book of Enoch was considered esoteric, so were the closing passages of the Book of Daniel.
          Was not Nehemiah and Esther considered apocrypha by early church fathers… You would surely agree.
          Do you know who wrote the Book of Ruth? There are scholarly debates raging that it was written by Solomon and the style and flourish is in full evidence.
          I hate to say it, but you can check for yourself… the historical anomalies in the Book of Esther… scholars divided on timelines, making random guesses that her husband was Xerxes II, some think he is Artaxerxes II
          If there is one book that could have been grouped as apocrypha, it is this book. Scholars can’t even agree who the author is… ridiculous.
          Is Song of Songs inspired literature or inspired prophetic words? A king who had 700 wives and 300 concubines is praising fidelity? The shulamitess rejected the king in favour of her boyfriend- what is the New Testament moral we should learn from this? Am asking because I don’t know. In my opinion, it was allegory made divine. In other words, the best of Solomon’s 1005 songs are seen as ‘Song of Songs’ (May the Lord Jesus forgive me if I have been naughty in intent)

          This is why rebel kids and child prodigies veer away from the ‘Holy Bible’ and become new age adherents, and OUR LACK of interpretation should take some blame.

          (PS- II Thess 2.8 is in fact taken directly from the Book of Enoch- The magicians Jannes/Jambres quoted from Jasher.)

          What KJV did was it decided to further prune the established Christian canonicals, but not consider any additions- simple logic. That’s why they decided they cannot discard Daniel because it is found in Ketuvim and so rejected portions of it under the easy-peasy ‘apocrypha’ excuse.
          Even a child who reads the KJV Daniel will understand that it was written by not just one person but was compiled as such, for placeholder purposes only. Same goes with Psalm 151- excluded because the King Manasseh was an idolator- how foolish an argument? Certain portions of Psalms were written as late as the 7th century BC. eg. Psalm 137.

          My humble question here is do you consider the scriptures sacred just because the King James commission said it is, or is your faith in God’s word, more deep-rooted?

          (Brother, please do not misunderstand me- I so cringe to say this, for fear of being misunderstood- I hope you will consider this ecumenical dialogue intellectually and not emotionally)

          BTW-What is your stand on ‘Plenary Verbal inspiration’? and your reasoning behind either.




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    2. What really GOD expects of a believer? ( As TPM preaches how to obtain Perfection in Love, Faith , Holiness and Doing Perfect will of God..)

      God expects believers to display the character of Christ amidst all circumstances- public or private and be willing to be a beacon or a lamp or just a pinch of common salt.

      God expects us to speak the truth in love and show forth the essence of true Christianity, even if we are to lose in life.

      God expects a dying in us, to our self and all that we think we can become, and behave as New Creatures, molded by the ushers of grace and mercy.

      God expects humility, readiness to show honor to the elderly, willingness to make our marriages an example of the heavenly marriage of the lamb.

      God expects us to seek love and remember the undying love of Calvary.

      God expects us to congregate in worship, in assemblies, having been reconciled and with a pure conscience, so that we can experience the strength that comes in unity.

      God expects us to teach, for that he wants us to become good students in the classroom of trials.

      God expects godly believers to separate themselves from the world- not in the fashion that we understand… For eg. if there is gossip in the church, that gossip is to be seen as ‘Babylon’ and we are exhorted to not add to it, at the least.

      God expects us to have a meaningful and lively personal communion with Him. Such an exercise will yield lasting fruits when we gather in worship.

      God expects us to know what is the hope of our calling… Why am i here, how can I become a blessing…

      God expects us to utilize our gifts and talents, and to bring greater glory to his name.

      God expects us to bear one another’s burdens and fulfill the law of love; to know the one we believe and demonstrate the faith we have in His faithfulness; to be less materialistic and die to Christian show off, and become yoked with his suffering; to have an open mind that is renewed, to understand that All things work for good, per his Holy will.




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  10. Thank you Bro.Denzel Joy.. I could only imagine.. how much you might have gone thru…. I completely agree with you WORD BY WORD.. May GOD heal you and make you whole… I pray for everyone here also. It saddened me to see.. TPM even made some to become Atheist/Agnostic ..




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    1. Sister Truth Please,

      At the end of a long journey, you still realise that there was some joy in the pain…

      Thank fully, I do not want a second innings with TPM or any church where elders have no humility… Before joining the ministry, I was an informal youth leader at college and at workplace… We would gather on Sunday evenings or Early Monday mornings to worship God.. I still miss those… they were bliss… No melodrama no non sense- just pure worship




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  11. Jeremiah, where is the devil now after dumping the devil infected cot in the well. I think Devil might have escaped and shifted its base to your demi god shyam sundar’s chair.




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  12. If Jeremiah is really Mrs. Bijoys …
    Then @ Mrs. Bijoys

    Aunty ji … थोड़ा अपनी ज़िन्दगी भी देख लो, अपने बेटे को तो बिगाड़ दिया….अछा लड़का था , मेरा दोस्त था….क्यों उसकी अछि सोच ख़राब की?? खुदा ज़्यादा इम्पोर्टेन्ट है या हमारी खुद की मन मर्ज़ी और लोगों के सामने इज्जत ??

    आज भी बोहित दुःख होता है उसकी ये स्तिथि देख कर,जब भी उसकी याद आती है तो…आप पर गुस्सा आता है ..प्यारा लड़का था वह….

    दुआ करता हूँ की जल्दी खुदा उसके ज़िन्दगी में वापस आय और उसके साथ गहरा संबंद बनाये… और खुदा का नाम ऊँचा करे.

    @ all…

    Hey guys please pray for Mrs. Bijoys sons… His name is Jones.

    In 26 Jan 2015, while praying during a special prayer for all members in Baroda church, his father literally cried in the church for this boys comeback to God who has litteraly become atheist due to improper guidance.

    Let’s all pray for him, because he is really a good guy and deserves to come back to God. Please uphold him in prayers. He is a good soul!




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  13. Hi Denzel…i wish to have a word with you in person…How may i connect with you…its purely out of brotherly love in Christ…




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    1. Feel free to write to me on this site, Steen. I am staying anonymous because of necessity, more than choice.

      I thank you for your kind and fraternal Christian connection, by the way.




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