Table of Contents
Removing the Eunuch Mask
The whole establishment of TPM thrives and grows like a parasite plant in Christendom. You know what is that which separates the parasite from a normal plant? The parasite covers up the real base plant/tree and tries to camouflage as the main part of the real tree. Only people who know that this is a parasite can remove it and help the original tree grow. It’s being itself is very deceitful. The parasite if not removed, will consume all nutrition from the base tree and leave the tree dead. TPM is not even a Branch of Jesus, They are a Parasite. They have no interest in the Church of Jesus, they have only one interest, THEMSELVES.
“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing“. John 15:5.
They Draw Disciples after themselves – Acts 20:30. They are wolves. One Mechanism of this TPM Parasite to draw people away from Christ and his finished work is their advertising of consecration. We do not find the word consecration anywhere in the New Testament. But sure we could find a lot of emphasis on consecration in the Roman Catholic Church and Buddhist/ Jain Literatures.
Since I was a minister in TPM I know that TPM ministers are at their best to twist the scriptures either literally or spiritually to suit their own style of function and life. In this article, I am taking on TPM ministers for their claim to be eunuchs. Primarily, being a eunuch is not to just abstain from a physical relation with the opposite gender but importantly to be free from lust in one’s mind. Because, in chapter 5 of Mathew, Lord Jesus presented a high version of morality. “But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Mathew 5:28). Can Our dear TPM Ministers say that they are innocent of any violation of Matthew 5:28?
Ok, let’s suppose that these TPM ministers are eunuchs (majority are not either physically or spiritually). Hope that TPM ministers know the role and place of the eunuchs in the king’s palace. Let us take an example from the “book of Esther”. In this book, we can find the role of eunuchs in the palace of king Ahasuerus. In chapter 2:3 & 14 we read about two eunuchs Hegai and Shaashgaz who were to attend on the young virgins. The reason eunuchs been appointed as custodians of young virgins were to keep them from any carnal attachment & sexual defilement.Yes, TPM ministers claim to be eunuchs who alone can preserve the church; but how many are the real eunuchs? From my experience, I can assuredly say that all are not evil but many are there in TPM Ministry who instead of preserving the women folk, do defile them by words and deeds.
A Response to Vik Gant
Before going further in my article, I would like to tell Vik Gant who called the entire team a bunch of bible thumping self-righteous hypocrites that we don’t simply narrate things which we haven’t personally gone through. Now regarding the TPM eunuchs, I can bring out many names in public with their wicked deeds. Once a young girl confessed to me that one Pastor called one of her roommates after 11 pm & started explaining about her like king Solomon in Songs of Solomon. I can with no fear write about many who call young girls & married women to have vulgar talks over the phone. Mr. Vik Gant should appreciate us for not disclosing the names of his such ministers who claim to be eunuchs. Once when I happened to visit one of the TPM churches where I ministered before & one Hindu sister living adjacent to that TPM church told me about the brother then. She said, “so many fathers came here but this father is very bad; he make others watch porn movies.” Moreover, there are reports that he is homosexual. There are so many cases like this about gays & lesbians inside TPM. Here I would like to challenge Vik Gant who advised the team to step out and do the job. If you are a TPM minister or TPM supporter then let’s come on a platform with the audience to listen to us. Bring your best apologist and we will talk purely from Bible, let the audience decide who is right or wrong?
They Exclude themselves unknowingly from the Bride of Christ.
Come, let’s go back to the cream of our topic. I was talking about the roles of the eunuchs in the old testament. In Esther, we see that eunuchs attending on the young virgins did not become the queen of king Ahasuerus. Their duty was just to preserve & make the virgins fit to go to the king. What should we understand from this? From TPM ministers own perspective we can conclude that they cannot become the bride of Jesus but they can just prepare the church. If it so how can they claim to be with Jesus on mount Zion?
TPM Motto
I am inspired to add one more issue of TPM in this article. During my days as a minister in TPM, I came across many ignorant sisters whom I asked the purpose of joining the ministry. Most of them had a familiar answer that, they have joined the ministry to go to Zion. What a pathetic condition of these biblical ignorant women folk? I understood that they were yearning more to be in Zion than to win Jesus. Instead of keeping Jesus as their goal (Galatians 4:19), they have made Zion the goal of their lives. That is why many of the TPM ministers have no personal or intimate relationship with Jesus. It’s written in 2 Chronicles 20:33, “however the high places were not removed since the people had not yet directed their hearts to the God of their ancestors.” Isn’t the case of many of the ministers in TPM? What is the high place of TPM? As according to Micah 1:5 .Jerusalem was the high place of Judah, so also Zion and their outward consecrations are their high places. Like the people of Judah, TPM ministers and believers are not able to direct their hearts to God with single-hearted devotion. Do you think that God will be pleased with such people who instead of God and His son Jesus, are coveting Zion & Jerusalem?
Just a couple of hours back I heard the Tamil Song (Chennai convention -2017) about Zion and in that song they are singing all about themselves but the name of Jesus is just like a gap filling. The chorus says, the feet of them who followed the meek Jesus are shining in Zion.” Oh my God I don’t understand how can they sing like this? By singing like this are they not bring the standard of Jesus to their low level? What more BLASPHEMY you want to hear and see in TPM?
In Philippians 3:8, Paul considered all things as a loss to GAIN CHRIST. However, we see the clergy of TPM who supposedly proclaim to have left all to GAIN ZION. For TPM, The Person of Jesus is not at all important when compared to ZION. Jesus or No Jesus, TPM is after Zion.
My dear reader if you are a TPM believer, God is using this site to bring you out from such a mess as He sent two angels to bring Lot out of SODOM. As the two angels told Lot in Genesis 19:15 God is telling you through this site, “Hurry! take your wife. And take your two daughters that are here. If not, you will be killed when the city is destroyed.” It’s the time to leave TPM (Sodom) and stay no longer there. If you are not a TPM believer, kindly encourage your family members, relations &.well-wishers to come out of this great deception.May God help you to hear & obey His call to leave.
Heed the heavenly call “Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “‘Come out of her, my people,’ so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;” Revelation 18:4
God Bless you.
Really I can’t believe…!!!
Homosexual inside in TPM ….!!!
Any way,
Bro ,
It is hard to leave TPM who is in the age above 45, 50
Bcz they are bondaged to TPM MINISTERS…
If their youth or children wish to leave TPM,
Itz difficult, family issues, also issues in church…
One point.
If they leave…
Any other church to join…??
Also marriage, funeral services …in their life…
So it is difficult bro ….practically
I left at the age of 26, the best decision I have ever made! Its possible! I used to believe those thing they said how people how leave the tpm will have bad luck! But I am 34 now living a happy life! I have family who still go but I am hoping they will also see the light soon. But I’m saying its possible to leave and have no issues.
Fear of curses is what they specialize in. By God’s grace, things are going well for me too. God bless you for your brave step. I too am waiting for my parents to see the light but they too might be thinking the same way as bro. Joseph above…
Same here, i dint go after 1998, doing well and live
I thank God for saving me out of this church. Today Im serving God as missionary among Muslims from Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan. God gave me grace to do a scholarly work in Koine Greek, Semitic Hebrew and Aramaic from a reputed bible seminary in Australia, which otherwise I couldn’t have done being a member of TPM.
People in TPM are just wasting time. They are controlled and manipulated in every way. We should really pray for them.
Would like to contact you bro
Praise the Lord..
There is no other church Bro.. who could teach these precious doctrines., the truth.. from the Holy Bible.. m an outsider., from a different denomination., after coming to tpm., I learnt many things here in this church about the coming of the Lord., pre n post Rapture.. if someone is true child of God., they will never tell to come out of this church., n they won’t just leave on road.. just try any church other than tpm., I don’t think u will hear the sound doctrines..
Good n evil ppl.. they r every where.. you don’t follow the servants of God or believers if u r not comfortable..
here in this page m seeing only hatred about tpm.. Is Hatred a good Spirit?? Where is their Spirit of Love n Spirit of Prayers..
If they fast n pray for this mission other than sitting here n gossiping about this denomination..
God would definitely change their hearts..
This page is only Hatred about a denomination..
in everyone’s life there will be an aim.. Indeed Jesus is their master n Zion is their goal..
It’s not good to just spread rumors that they have gays n lesbians in the ministry.. definitely they will pay for it…
Who er they to tell others to come out of tpm.. can they show the very best church.. which will make u ready for the coming of Lord..
every one will have shortcomings in our lives., it doesn’t mean that u go out of the church where u r getting sound doctrines..
Dear Brother Joy
All that you have got is appealing to the Emotions which is the cause of all conflicts in this world. Why are you not able to Challenge the materials on the basis of scripture?
Simple, there ain’t any.
Jyotsna,
Don’t you feel a prick when you tell, fast and pray for this mission? They will enjoy all the luxury, go after filthy things, comment about you, scold you in public and we need to pray for them? Are you telling that we need to bribe God to deliver these people?
GV, Well said. For the TPM saints to continue in their filth and mislead their poor flock, others should fast and pray…wow!
When people stubbornly resist to examine every doctrine in the light of the Word, God allows them to believe a lie and be damned. “And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness” – 2 Thessalonians 2: 11-12 (KJV).
This is what Brother Teju said when he came down to Bangalore, He said “Instead of spreading news in the whats app, cry to God for the church, lament for the saints” , in an emotional tone almost crying. And this is the exact thought I had. What did you guys do when everyone came to know about your pity state? be it homosexuality, murder or prostitution. You tried to hide it, You tried to justify yourself. You protected all those goondas. And you expect us to cry for you.. I could only laugh it off when he was appealing emotionally… Even God cannot help such hypocrites..
Guys like Teju have very thick skin. They would not lift up their finger to mend their ways and has the gall to ask for prayers. Such Prayers or requests are ineffective without any REPENTANCE. Repentance is followed by Fruits of Repentance and Everyone can notice it if there is a true repentance. Till then I have no reasons to believe this Snake.
These guys are an absolute joke. They just don’t want to take any responsibility but pass the buck to their poor misled ignorant believers.
Without addressing the fundamental false doctrines on which this organisation is built on, there is no way anything is going to change. Instead of asking their stupid followers to pray to their false god, the unholy trinity of TPM should get on their knees and call out to the God of the Bible for mercy and then He will decide the eternal destiny of this organisation. Failing which no fasting, no crying, no praying , no lamenting will be of any use but only hasten their slide into the hell hole from which their deeper truth doctrine has emanated from.
Thanks Sister Joyce for the update. It is nice to know that TPM’s Pharoahs will not repent nor relent.
Agree with you totally . People who are haters of TPM church have so much bitterness ,unforgiveness and hatred in their hearts and they are so desperate to spit out the poison to turn many people against the tpm church- please know that you are nothing but instruments in the hands of the devil- I pray that God would show mercy and bring repentence to you-
Excellent article. I was appalled when I heard that new convention hymn. Doesn’t TPM have shame to invite unbelievers to a convention and make them sing praises of their pastors? How can this not be a deal breaker if you are a TPM die hard? They’ve literal composed an entire song praising themselves. This is idolatry.
Yes I have observed many times, in much of TPM preaching and songs. TPM subtly replaces Jesus with anything, but Jesus is put asides.
For example,
1) Chief shephered = Chief pastor (see the post in this website)
2) Melchizedek = holy Spirit (not Jesus)
Entire world preaches, Melchizedek is Jesus but TPM’s doctrine dares to say otherwise.
3) Manchild = Church which includes saints (not Jesus)
Most Christians teach manchild of Revelation 12 is Jesus but TPM says its overcoming church!
The list goes on and on!
The spirit that replaces Jesus is antichrist spirit. Antichrist as scholars say does not only mean someone who opposes to Christ but also false Jesus Christs, who try to replace Jesus. The TPM concept of Zion itself is a greatest proof to this. In Psalms 2 we find kings and heathen imagine a vain thing against God and Christ(anointed), but God says, I have set my king in Zion ( Psa 2:6), which means heathen wanted to reign in Zion as King. A more powerful evidence is Isaiah 14. Spirit of lucifer in Isaiah 14 said in his heart, to exalt himself to Zion, the mountain of congregation in north. You know which mountain is in north ! Zion (Psalms 48:2).
” For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north.. (Isaiah 14:13).”
//Spirit of lucifer in Isaiah 14 said in his heart, to exalt himself to Zion, the mountain of congregation in north. You know which mountain is in north ! Zion (Psalms 48:2).//
Brother Nath,
When I was leaving TPM ministry, I was sounded off with the above quote.
They said the way to Zion is only through consecration and holiness. They gave the example of David in the gutter- II Sam 5. When we do not desire to go through the gutter, we will end up at the rapprochement of the city gates where the lame and the blind will hinder us.
In other words, fallen workers who desire to serve God in any other ministry are the maimed princes who failed to capture Zion and are left outside the gates- is what TPM concludes.
Yes this is a belief within their ranks. I still remember when the Mother in charge said this when I was a teenager. She said if somebody falls away from Zion( i.e TPM Ministry) they straight away land in the worst part of Hell. What mind control technique?
But I am glad she said that to me. That very day I knew that God is not such a pathological schizophrenic to do such an unjust thing. I decided I will not follow such things in my life. They paint a very horrific image of the Loving Father in Heaven.
This idea “When TPM worker falls away from Zion , he cannot fall from Zion to New Jerusalem or to new earth but straight to deepest part of hell” was invented by Pastor TU Thomas.” He had some super great revelations! ha..ha!
He also made similar great revelations! Once he said that when a servant of God dies, though his body goes to grave yet his spirit continues to keep serving in the area he was ministering…
//He also made similar great revelations! Once he said that when a servant of God dies, though his body goes to grave yet his spirit continues to keep serving in the area he was ministering…//
I have not heard this, but this is a blooper… straight from Harry Potter or any of the Irish/Welsh fables of dwarves and elves, who are considered to be preadamic angels, who fell from heaven, but were good inherently.
//“When TPM worker falls away from Zion , he cannot fall from Zion to New Jerusalem or to new earth but straight to deepest part of hell” was invented by Pastor TU Thomas.”//
No brother, I still have my notebooks with the preaching notes from early nineties.. I am confidant this is also taught in Sunday School. They give reference to fallen workers as angels who kept not the first estate- Jude vs 6. By the way, I recently (4 yrs ago) clarified with Bro Teju, he said its true they will go to the worst torment ie. outer darkness, which will be poured into hell. This applies to those who leave the ministry because they ‘LOST’ their first ‘CONSECRATION’. If a worker leaves because of health reasons etc, he should take utmost care to continue in the same ‘CONSECRATION’ in his mind- then his rewards will be lower, yet just.
This cult has so many weird and hidden teachings. It’s time people question their leaders based on their own publications which they cannot deny. When bible is no more the base for their teachings, it just entered the danger zone.
I am also aware of a sister who left the ministry (because her parents came to the training center and forcibly took her away)
The pastor asked her to continue in the same ‘CONSECRATION’ even if she is not presently serving God visibly.
So, she was forced to marry a Catholic and she refused, but in the end it was a forced decision and she finally tied the knot.
Her CONSECRATION stopped her from consummating the marriage as a result of which she is separated from her husband- atleast unofficially.
She did drop in to GDL and met one of the known pastors/sisters here, atleast once or twice.
They are very proud of her CONSECRATION and have given her a real feelgood.
The shocking thing that also came to my attention is this:
On and off, she is infilled with the spirit and she involuntarily starts sketching about, what actually seems to be Hebrew words and sentences.
It is a paranormal phenomenon called- Automatic Writing, which is satanic.
//Automatic Writing//
Thanks for that information. I know one believer who said that he supposedly did that in his early years. But this believer is saint in character (Saint thousand times compared to saints of TPM). But this so called gift of spirit (not found in bible) was gone when I met him. I asked him the papers to check what he had written, but he said he lost it. Anyway thanks for the term Automatic Writing.
Another Unbiblical Gift of the spirit practiced all over is pushing people and making them fall. This is practiced more in other denominations. However, TPM also has a pushing saint. His name is Carland Wright. He ministers in the United States. Jesus lifted up people who were oppressed and bowed down. Here we have people who physically push and make people fall. All in the Name of God.
Pastor Manasseh did this ! He used to put fingers of forehead of people and make them fall. He pushed me once! Thank God I didn’t fall ..!
I call it the gift of the flesh, if one were to use force to cause another to fall.
‘Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men’s sins: keep thyself pure’
I remember the center pastor of the church I used to go to saying along the lines of “don’t let any other pastors (from other denominations ) lay hands on you lest evil spirits from them should pass into you ..” according to him only tpm pastors didn’t have any evil spirits in them and hence it was ok to let them lay their hands on you ….
looking back I remember cringing at that statement yet somehow accepted it as being truth …even in those days I would wonder why these people were so much into bragging about they being “saints ” and “Zion bound ” and all such non sense…I remember MT would spend most of his sermon in bragging about AC Thomas or other such former “saints ” and sometimes even about alywn…much of my youth was wasted away at this church ….the amount of damage it did to my early adulthood in terms of confusion, cognitive dissonance, depression etc is huge …
@ Ex Brainwashed- I totally agree with you, word for word..
Pastor MT is an Alwyn apologist and defends him saying that he only brought oral doctrines in print and that was a mutual discussion and deliberation via letters and debates, some of which included IPC pastors as well.
haha…I don’t consider MT as a genuine personality….it’s just my gut feeling based on almost three years attending a church where he was the centre pastor…I don’t consider all TPM pastors as being disingenuous but some truly are…ain’t that human nature in general? Whenever I get time these days, i try to think back to those old days in TPM and I wish I had been brought up differently or at least that I didn’t take it as seriously as I used to…
yes!!! I have actually seen him do this in person! When I see him coming I just gather up my strength and hold on to whatever I can to not fall! There was also another minister who did the same and wouldn’t stop till you fell. It was very weird and they would come screaming to you hoping to scare you.
I was the one who pushed him back, time and again..Finally he would not come close to push me. Crooked fellow.
Doctrinal regulations and formalisation/ reconciliation of deeper truths in TPM became more pronounced during Pas AC’s time.
Latter pastors, whoever they might have been, simply pick up one less known heresy from their predecessors and pass it off as revelation.
The bane of TPM was the lack of formal education in its ranks, especially until the 70’s.
The educated ones had no theological exposure, neither were they students of church history.
I hope that in this information age, they realise that we need less of doctrine and more of Christ.
hahah! thats actually funny. TPM hauntings will be the new thing then by the dead pastor’s spirit! haha
Sun-clad woman –
Different opinions written in the book “Babylon the Great” by Pas. KE Abraham Sir (Founder of IPC) –
1. Woman – Mary & Child – Jesus
2. Woman – Jews & Child – Jesus
3. Woman – Jews & Child – 144,000 (mentioned in Rev.ch.7)
But Pas KE Abraham did not mention about the 4th one and he did not mention which is the correction interpretation too. He simply highlighted the 3 interpretation by different churches.
4. Woman – NT Church & Man-child (overcomers) – TPM teaches.
Woman is in heavenly places. By the baptism of the Holy Spirit we are seated in heavenly places (Col.3:1-3)
She is adorned with Sun – Sun speaks Sun of Righteousness (Jesus) and at water baptism a believer put on Christ (Gal.3:26,27).
She is standing on the moon and moon speaks grace (Rom.5:2). Moon has no light in herself and receive light from Sun and reflects. We do not have anything but receive from Jesus and reflects so we are in grace. She has a crown of 12 stars. Stars speaks the NT ministers (Rev.1:20; 2 Cor.8:23) and apostlic doctrine is the Crown of NT (Acts 2:42). She is pained to be delivered (Rom.8:22-23). We who have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit is groaning for a victorious life in the wicked world. St. Paul says, I am pained so that Christ may be born in you (Gal.4:19). There is another wonder, a dragon. Satan is working against the Church of God in heavenly places now (Eph.6:10-12) in order to drew 1/3 of the stars (saints) to put down or to destroy and devour the overcoming life of the NT believers (Rev.12:5). However, in a moment the Child is being caught up to the throne of God (Rev.3:21). This overcoming group will rule the kingdom of His saints (Dan.7:17,27) during millennium (Rev.2:26,27) alongwith Jesus Christ (Psa.2:6-11). Is there any base verses to prove the child as Jesus Christ and if so, then who is that woman with such decoration? No need to blame and attack the doctrine of Christ being taught by TPM.
//She is adorned with Sun – Sun speaks Sun of Righteousness (Jesus) and at water baptism a believer put on Christ (Gal.3:26,27)//
So are you saying that even after being clothed with Righteousness of Christ and putting on Christ, she (the woman) was left behind??
Sir John CJ,
Do you even understand what is the meaning of being clothed with sun of righteousness?
Are you saying clothed with holiness of Jesus (Jesus himself) is insufficient to get caught up at coming of Jesus?
Dear brother ,
I am a Tpm believer and I agree with many things posted in this site but really not the one point what you say.
Revelation 12 talks about the manchild which is the church include all people to be taken during rapture to be with Jesus so there are doctrines that are false but many preach true doctrines based on the word of god. It’s not only spoken by tpm u can refer teachings including John Mccarthur and many serants of god outside tpm
So just don’t speak blindly brother
Did the article speak of anything apart from the scripture to prove the point? Why don’t you prove your point with the scripture? We are open. Are you?
If McArthur is your standard, God Bless your heart.
Check out this in which he says you can take the Mark of the beast and still be safe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU3tjRq6tX4
Thank you for sharing that video link. Even i used to watch John McArthur videos, I refrained watching them after cautioned by some visitors/Admin of this site in a comment.
Thank God for giving us this open platform to share our views and get corrected.
Keep going Admin, God used you to strengthen us spiritually.
# In Esther, we see that eunuchs attending on the young virgins did not become the queen of king Ahasuerus. Their duty was just to preserve & make the virgins fit to go to the king. What should we understand from this? From TPM ministers own perspective we can conclude that they cannot become the bride of Jesus but they can just prepare the church. If it so how can they claim to be with Jesus on mount Zion? #
Wowww, that’s an eye-opener
Actually King Ahasuerus is considered to be a type of the Lord Jesus Christ… Can you believe it? I certainly dont agree with this comparison. TPM does!
In all-male royal banquets, the presence of prostitutes and orgy is common. That is why Vashti never attended the party and was willing to be defrocked.
Drinking as much as you want without limits, is a hall mark of eastern pentecostal experiences where there is less discipline and too much emotions.
I stop at this and would welcome a rebuttal- but please do so with care and respect.
For example,
1) Chief shephered = Chief pastor (see the post in this website)
2) Melchizedek = holy Spirit (not Jesus)
Entire world preaches, Melchizedek is Jesus but TPM’s doctrine dares to say otherwise.
3) Manchild = Church which includes saints (not Jesus)
Most Christians teach manchild of Revelation 12 is Jesus but TPM says its overcoming church!
Dear Nath
Can you prove Melchisedec is Holy Spirit?
Can you prove Sun-clad woman (Mary) & Son (Jesus Christ?
Can you deny New Jerusalem & Zion – place of N.T. Bride?
Can you deny 7 lots of resurrection?
Can you deny deifferent places in Eternity?
Is it applicable Luke 14:26,33 for a sinner to become His disciple?
If Zion is inside New Jerusalem who are standing on Mount Zion 144000? (Rev.14:1-5)
He was a minister in TPM once, that was his mistake and could not abide there (Mat.19:11,12) and now writes against TPM only instead of preaching about Christ? That itself proof, TPM doctrines are correct (all TPM people are not correct) and Devil is using mightly to destroy the true appostolic doctrine which preach, teach and practice in TPM. All TPM people will not go at His coming, TPM people alone will not be in Bride group, because Peter, John, Paul are all not of TPM. Doctrine which hold by TPM is excellent and it is best to live a life for His coming. Doctrine of Consecration, doctrine of the truth of divine healing, doctrine of seven orders or resurrection, truth of Sunclad woman and her man-child, truth of Melchisedec are not understood and taught in other churches by which they are unable to prepare their life for His coming, though they are innocent and upright in many matters. So we preach and teach about Christ and His gospel (gospel of salvation(deliverance) and gospel of glory alike) than any other church and we highlight the doctrine of consecration, divine healing, etc. and many are living accordingly, whether people believe or accept. May the Lord forgive your aggressive character and bring out the cluches of devil and to the kingdom of His dear son.
//He was a minister in TPM once, that was his mistake and could not abide there (Mat.19:11,12) and now writes against TPM only instead of preaching about Christ? //
Dear John CJ,
I have placed in quotes- read above- your sentence.
Who are you referring to? Pastor C John? or Admin or someone in particular?
Let’s discuss- point by point
Brother John, I would like to add some comments and let brother Nath answer the questions that are raised. There is only one gospel. The elitism and pride in TPM forces it to make things up like different gospels. Galatians 1 warns us that anyone who preaches any other gospel is cursed. So I would tread cautiously.
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! (Gal 1:8)
Melchizedek is not the Holy Spirit. TPM teaches heresy when they claim Melchizedek was literally the Holy Spirit in human form. This is because TPM doesn’t understand why the book of Hebrews says things like “without Father, without mother,.etc). We see in Genesis that Melchizedek was the king of Jerusalem. He wasn’t the Holy Spirit in human form, he was a human.
The reason Hebrews says Melchizedek was without father and without mother is because in the OT, usually a figure is introduced they mention their ancestry, descendants and similar details. But when Melchizedek is introduced, we do not see these things. Hebrews says his name means “King of Righteousnes” and was the “King of peace”. This can be the typology of Jesus alone. Moreover, in genesis we read Melchizedek’s words
“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
Possessor of heaven and earth;
and blessed be God Most High,
who has delivered your enemies into your hand!”
He clearly isn’t the Holy Spirit in human form going by his words. TPM uses poor biblical understanding to arrive at a faulty conclusion.
Please refer to my response which starts with
//Bro John,
Seems you have finally burst..//
Sorry for not placing it just below your comment.
//Can you deny New Jerusalem & Zion – place of N.T. Bride?//
@ Brother CJ,
The concept of different levels of Heaven in TPM, is borrowed from the French Poet- Dante.
In his work- called ‘Divine’ Comedy’ he mentions that Heaven has 9 levels or hierarchies. He calls the 9th heaven as Empyrean, the immaterial dwelling place of God.
St Paul once wrote about himself as having gone to the third heaven- doesn’t mean there are different partitions in heaven. It means there are layers like firmament, outer space and then the ‘Heaven of God’. In this third heaven, which all Christians aim for, there is nothing to suggest an internal partition.
Let me ask you few G.K questions from the Bible, since TPM’s is an ‘Old wine in New bottles’ kind of theology.
1. Where in the Old Testament is Zion/ Tsion mentioned as a city/ town distinct from Jerusalem?
2. Why is Hermon also referred to Zion, and in that case, why does Hermon find no mention in ‘eternal habitations’?
3. Why was there little emphasis placed on Zion in Christendom before Joseph Smith’s cult/ LDS became popular?
4. Why was Pastor John Thomas in possession of the Mormon’s Bible in Frazer Town, in the 90’s? In fact the ignorant workers there had no idea that there was anything evil in it, at all…. (forgive me for taking names)
5. Why were the Jewish captives in Babylon, lamenting for Zion, as a general term for Caanan, and not a specific piece of real estate?
6. What is Zionism- the term coined during the late 20th century? Hasn’t TPM drawn inspiration from such a battle cry?
7. The foundation stones in New Jerusalem has the names of the 12 apostles? Whose will be the 12th name, given that Judas is not, and that TPM claims that Barnabas lost his ministry?
8. If the apostles names are inscribed on the foundation stones of the walls, does that not mean, that they have no access to a TPM style Zion?
9. If there was at all, an earthly preference for Zion, above all the territorial provinces of Caanan, why did not Joshua or the judges bother?
10. God loves the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob… Where is there any mention in the Old Testament of the literal gates of Zion? Did Nebuchadnezzar burn two sets of gates, in order to plunder the temple?
I am sure you can give me Bible-based answers.
Does this not mean that Zion is seen as symbolic of the hope of redemption or return from captivity, for all Israelites, and not only to those who lived very close to the Temple.
Regards.
From John
Dear Nath.
Can you prove Melchisedec is Jesus? We can provide in different angle, Melchisedec who met Abraham is Holy Spirit.
Can you prove Sun Clad woman and her son is Mary and Jesus Christ. Yes Jesus Christ will rule with rod of iron as it is written in Psalms 2, but can you prove this Man-child is Jesus? We can prove with verses that Sun-clad woman is New Testament Church and Man-child is Overcoming saints out of it.
Do you believe, a group of Christians will be left behind at His secret coming?
Who are those 10 virgins? (Mat.25:1-13). They are the left behind group at His secret coming.
According to Mathew 11:11, Where John the Baptist will go in eternity?
Do you believe sheep and shepherd are similar and will be equal?
There are many more wrong teachings in other churches by which innocent followers will be left behind at His secret coming.
Dear John
This is my second response to you (Since this is your second post).
//Can you prove Melchisedec is Jesus? We can provide in different angle, Melchisedec who met Abraham is Holy Spirit.//
I have provided my answer it first post. Is there need to repeat?
//Can you prove Sun Clad woman and her son is Mary and Jesus Christ. Yes Jesus Christ will rule with rod of iron as it is written in Psalms 2, but can you prove this Man-child is Jesus? We can prove with verses that Sun-clad woman is New Testament Church and Man-child is Overcoming saints out of it//
Yes there are various other interpretations available. Yes you can use a verse to say Manchild points to church. However I prefer Manchild as Jesus. I don’t prefer woman clothed with sun as Mary. That is Roman Catholic interpretation. So your logic of possibility of another interpretation to manchild is valid (when you only consider manchild interpretation of TPM). However if you look at overall TPM songs and doctrines, and twisting of scriptures, which are widely discussed in this website, under the title heresies part 2,3,4 and the comment sections that follows, then it appears that TPM is indeed trying to usurp the position of Jesus. In that case your argument of possibility of varied interpretation of manchild fails.
//Do you believe, a group of Christians will be left behind at His secret coming?
Who are those 10 virgins? (Mat.25:1-13). They are the left behind group at His secret coming.//
Don’t try to impose on me TPM’s secret rapture theory. That theory was started by Jesuits (RC branch organization) to divert attention of people from RC church as the great whore of Rev 17. I have elsewhere mentioned, I am not very sure on Eschatology. Therefore I humbly accept that I cannot answer your queries. However it does not mean that I will accept TPM’s interpretation.
//According to Mathew 11:11, Where John the Baptist will go in eternity?//
Kindly refer my POV on the same in comments section in Article titled “Boasting and pride from the pulpit” I hope that clears your twisted understanding of John the Baptist’s position in heaven. If you have any refutation please respond there.
//Do you believe sheep and shepherd are similar and will be equal?//
This point has been thoroughly discussed by Bro Richard and admin with bro Warren. If you want my view then I have expressed my views there. Please read them if you want to know my views. In few words, I don’t allow shepherd to rule like king over sheep. He can guide and feed sheep, but that does not mean sheep must not check the authenticity of shepherd. Looking at their fruits you know who is shepherd and who is deceiver.
//There are many more wrong teachings in other churches by which innocent followers will be left behind at His secret coming.//
First correct TPM’s teaching of making believers sing praises to men (144k people) then point finger at other churches. No doubt there are many false ones out, but that doesn’t make TPM authentic.
Who is Melichisedec?
Gen.14 – He was a king of Salem (Jerusalem) were Jebusites were dwelling and during the time of Abraham there was no king who was High Priest of the Most High, like unto son of God, no father, no mother, etc. If there was like an high priest, then Abraham could not offer sacrifice by himself. Further if Priesthood in the order of Melchisedec was existing during the time of Abraham, there was no need of putting the priest hood in order order of Aaron, which is inferior.
Salem (peace). Jesus is called prince of peace, but Triune God got equal attributes. Since he had no father, no mother, no geneaology, no begining, no end, he was not a man; He was most high God (Father), so he is not Father. He is like unto Son of God, so he is not an angel. He is like unto son of God, so he cannot be Jesus Christ. In short Melchisedec is Holy Spirit and there was no gentile king during the time of Abraham, which could adopted by God to replace the priesthood of Aaron. Read the bible with all reverence and fear of God and without any pre-judgment, then you will understand teaching of TPM is as per bible.
Brother CJ,
Again, TPM says Melchizedek was the Holy Spirit in human form. Are you suggesting the Holy Spirit in human form was ruling as a king in Jerusalem?
I think you missed my comment above. Melchizedek is a typology for Jesus. When Melchizedek is introduced in the OT, he is introduced without a mention of his human parentage or ancestry, neither his birth not death in mentioned. So that makes him a typology for the second person of the Trinity, who too is without human parentage and without beginning or end.
Verse 4 of heb 7 says “See how great this man was to whom Abraham the patriarch gave a tenth of the spoils!”
Mechizedek was a man, not the Holy Spirit. You have absolutely no scriptural basis to call Melchizedek Holy Spirit in human form. It’s just wild imaginations.
Seems TPM is insisting that there was an Incarnation of God before Jesus. That would create utter confusion for many scriptural passages
Brother CJ John,
I much appreciate you replying to many comments here, including mine.
I must state plainly that I cannot agree with your explanation.
However, in the same vein, I cannot impose my views on you, either.
I believe that you are being sincere in your comments and are not trying to defend for namesake.
Yes, I do read my Bible with reverence and fear of God and without prejudice- nor do I aim to fling brickbats at the church.
With humility and due respect, I suggest that you re-read our comments/articles once again without any compulsions or fear of being removed from the church.
Your eternal future is more important than any designation in the assembly of men.
Bro John C J
You are arguing on vain points. You are disporting from the context of all the discussions. Have you understood the context of the article? The ARTICLE IS ABOUT TPM’S SUBTLE ATTEMPT TO REPLACE THE UNIQUE POSITION AND FUNCTION OF JESUS. in the name of consecration and celibacy (Eunuch) it is trying to take the place of master whom they claim to serve. All you are required to do is refute this if you do not believe what the admin is trying to say.
The first point is song which praises Human beings instead of God. I asked you in my first response to you “Why do you go to church? To sing praise and worship to TPM saints or to sing praise and worship to God alone?” Why did you shun that question? Why don’t you respond to it? Don’t you know that one who runs away from the game is looser and one who stays in the game is clear winner. In this case if you don’t answer the question it is evident that you have accepted the defeat and accepted our point that TPM by it’s song composition, is revealing the antichrist spirit that runs and controls TPM. Your answering Melchizedek point and sunclad point does not refute this point of admin.
Secondly I made comment agreeing with Admin by introducing the subject of Melchizedek and Manchild.
Let me take the case of Melchizedek first:
I responded to your logic that “Cannot be their varied interpretation to who Melchizedek is?” You and your TPM teaches Melchizedek is Holy Spirit. Bro Richard explained it was a human being. And then you again responded by quoting Gen 14. Let me be clear to you it is not that important to discuss who Melchizedek was. What is more important is – “as to whom does the Ministry and priesthood of Melchizedek points to?” TPM teaches that Melchizedek order points to New Testament ministry of TPM celibates. This interpretation is no where supported in Bible. If it is supported, then give the reference ? Did any Apostle ever said, that we are high priest after the order of Melchizedek? Do you have any such verse in Bible? The answer is clear NO! What does then Bible say? Bible clearly says that the Ministry of Melchizedek points to high priesthood ministry of Jesus. It says in the epistle of Hebrews that OT ministry of Levites is taken away and a new Testament ministry according to the order of Melchizedek is established. Therefore according to this order of Melchizedek Jesus is the eternal high priest forever (Hebrews 7 and 8).
Did you get my point??? Who Melchizedek is not important but who does it point to is much important.
Sunclad woman:
My second suggestion was that TPM saints try to replace Jesus by their doctrine of manchild in Rev 12. It is not that important in the context of the article as to who the sun clothed woman is. What I am trying to say is this, – TPM by saying manchild = overcoming saints, and rejecting the idea that manchild can be Jesus also, is proving the spirit of antichrist controlling them. Yes I agreed that manchild can be shown with the help of bible verse to be church. And yes you have also agreed that Man child can be shown with the help of bible verse as to be Jesus. Having mutually agreed that there can be varied interpretation to manchild, it would have been wrong to say that TPM is trying to replace Jesus, (had there been only one case of manchild interpretation as church instead of Jesus). But looking at various other evidences, like songs in TPM, and doctrines, manchild case of TPM interpretation proves their attepmt to usurp the position of Jesus Christ.
Finally don’t spew out something to divert the context. Say something meaningful that pertains to the subject of discussion. By honking the topic of who Melchizedek was or who the sunclad woman is, you are doing nothing but vainly arguing. Am I clear sir?
//He is like unto Son of God, so he is not an angel//
Brother CJ,
I completely understand your context as I was a former TPM worker. I have also preached in minor congregations, but I had never any conviction, nor had I a better answer. For want of better answers, I assumed this could be a plausible explanation.
I am sure you are also going by the presentation of truths, as it seems more compatible with your personal understanding.
What if I now tell you, that reading the KJV is good for devotional studies but not good for Bible studies on eschatology?
You need Bible tools like a concordance and root word variants etc for you to understand what was the possible intent, in the original tongue.
When I say ‘tongue’ in modern English it means a big mouth, but in ancient English, it meant common conversations in simple language.
Did you know that sons of God can also mean angels? Just because there is a phrase in KJV, don’t interpret that in kannada/Malyalam etc you will totally lose the essence. Go back to the Hebrew/ Aramaic/Latin Vulgate/Syriac root word.
Have you heard of Strong’s concordance? I am glad that many pastors are now using ‘Strongs’ I suggest you buy/ download the same and do your own Berean research.
In the context of your comment, I am not saying that ‘like son of God’ refers to angels, but am warning you of the danger of assuming that son(s) of God always refers to Jesus.
@ ADMIN
Another feedback about TPM- too much numerology used.
3 refers to X
5 refers to Y
20 refers to Z
I call it as careless interpretation of scriptures, leaving aside the moral, and the love of the truth, we end up trying to stitch another gospel.
In fact gospel bearers ALL OVER the world do it, but in TPM, the believers blindly agree with these half-truths, whereas in other missions, they simply call their revelations as food for thought.
Some TPM Interpretation is really hilarious and most of the time the context goes for a toss. I still remember a long Sermon where the Pastor was trying to prove that God does not completely trust the Saints (Job 15:15). Of course by his interpretation Saints meant TPM Ministers.
However, he never made it a point to check who is the origin. For him, the words of Eliphaz the Temanite was equivalent to the Word of God. This is the standard of many such Ministers who are packing their bags for eternal Zion.
Oh yes. Careless and lazy interpretations. Attributing random things to numbers is what most of their “deeper truths” are about. They just have an aura of profoundity to those who are ignorant of scriptures.
I still remember a very famous centre Pastor in Bangalore around 20 years ago using Job 21:11 (They let their children frisk about like lambs. Their little ones skip and dance) to teach the parents not to let their kids out to play.
//Can you prove Sun Clad woman and her son is Mary and Jesus Christ. Yes Jesus Christ will rule with rod of iron as it is written in Psalms 2, but can you prove this Man-child is Jesus? We can prove with verses that Sun-clad woman is New Testament Church and Man-child is Overcoming saints out of it.//
@ Brother John CJ,
Somewhere after the early apostles and bishops passed away, perhaps a hundred odd years after Pentecost, social schism arose within Christendom- between Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians.
Even during the first Century, apostles like Paul, Barnabas, Titus, Timothy & Silas, appealed to pagan Europe, dissuading them from heathen practices and explaining the spirit of the Old Covenant.
At the same time, Peter, James, James the brother of Jesus, John the elder, & Mark appealed to the Jewish converts to Christianity, to embrace the NEW covenant.
Please note that there were power struggles between these TWO groups after the first generation or so died out. The Roman Empire also played politics to keep Christians divided as ‘Jews’ and ‘Gentiles’
When the gentile Christians got stronger, they tried eliminating the role of Israel altogether. (Remember we the gentiles are mere wild olives grafted)
This is when Churches replaced synagogues and steeples replaced the shekinah.
The Roman empire went all out to erase the Jewish history behind New Testament Covenant, and thus the CHURCH was born as a monument controlled by the monarchs.
In short, this is called ‘Heresy of replacement theology’ You can do a bit of reading to understand things.
It is in God’s wisdom that the CHURCH not usurp the TABERNACLE, for both ought to places of sacrifice and true worship.
In other words, if you eliminate Old Testament completely, you cannot understand the promises of God…. So much as well we should not base our theology on the OLD Testament laws, which were impositions of law and not carriers of grace.
Woman- Israel in the 3.5 yrs tribulation
Manchild – the sealed Jews who escape tribulation being unhurt.
In another sense,
Woman- Israel who alone was promised the birth of Messiah Jesus.
Manchild- The historical birth and resurrection of Jesus.
Please note that this comparison is purely my personal consideration for deeper studies.
Understanding Revelations 12 as the birth of Jesus and culminating with the AntiChrist in Chapter 13.
Read Joseph’s dream & Revelations 12, Job 38, Baalam’s prophesy & the birth of Jesus together…
The woman is Virgo the constellation. She represents Israel/Church…. She is more Israel than Church..
Moon- new crescent moon is at the bottom of Virgo, who is in a sleeping position.
Sun- It appeared to be covering the middle portion of the body of Virgo
The Twelve stars- (1) Pi, (2) Nu, (3) Beta (near the ecliptic), (4) Sigma, (5) Chi, (6) Iota — these six stars form the southern hemisphere around the head of Virgo. Then there are (7) Theta, (8) Star 60, (9) Delta, (10) Star 93, (11) Beta (the 2nd magnitude star) and (12) Omicron — these last six form the northern hemisphere around the head of Virgo.
Man Child- seen at the womb of Virgo is Jupiter. This formation happened on the day Jesus was born. Manchild is Jesus. Jupiter is covered in stripes and has a red spot like a spear wound. It is also known as the king of Gods and has due to its mass and volume, shielded the milky way from wandering stars, during and after the falling away of planet Nibiru (between Mars & Jupiter)
Dragon- Is the constellation Draco
The seven stars of Draco is the crown like ‘Corona Borealis’ constellation
The Draco’s tail (seen from Polaris/ northern sky) can wipe out 1/3 of the stars in the heavenlies.
Dragon’s wing is URSA Minor.
Draco’s head is closest to the Virgo’s feet
Virgo’s feet is protected from Draco’s sister constellation corona because of constellation Bootes.
Bootes indicates shepherd with a rod.
The seven heads of the dragon are the 7 world empires:
1. Egypt Pharaoh
2. Assyria Sennacherib
3. Babylon Nebuchadnezar
4. Medo-Persia Darius
5. Greece (Seleucid) Antiochus IV Epiphanes
6. Rome Domitian
7. Future Kingdom Beast/Antichrist
Sea Beast rising from the sea- Revelations 13- Constellation Hydra.
When the stars are sifted by Draco’s tail, it will wound the head of Hydra. Hydra speaks of the coming AntiChrist.
Christian scholars have used stellar history and have identified the birth of Jesus as September 11, 3 BC and not December 25, 4 BC
Virgo
A virgin with a branch in her right hand and an ear of corn or seed in her left hand.
The Messiah is the Branch (Isaiah 11:1, Jeremiah 23:5, 33:15), who sits at the “right hand” of God making intercession for believers (Romans 8:34), who was born of the seed of a woman (Genesis 3:15) – a virgin (Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:23).
Libra
Scales, a pair of balances for weighing.
The Messiah paid the price with His blood to reconcile all things (Colossians 1:20).
Scorpio
A scorpion who inflicts the sting of death.
Serpents and scorpions represent the power of the enemy (Luke 10:19). The sting of death is sin (1 Corinthians 15:56).
Sagittarius
A horse with the head of a man with a bow and arrow pointed toward the scorpion.
A horse is associated with battle (Job 39:19-25, Proverbs 21:31). The power of God’s enemies are represented by serpents and scorpions (Luke 10:19). Christ conquered the sting of death and His enemies through His resurrection (1 Corinthians 15). Redemption under the New Covenant
Capricornus
Head of a goat that is dying with a tail of a fish still swimming. A goat was sacrificed as a sin offering (Leviticus 16:15-16). The Messiah took away the need to make sin offerings by His sacrifice – His death, burial, and resurrection, which made it possible to obtain eternal life through the “new covenant” (Hebrews 10).
Aquarius
A man pouring out a container of water. The Redeemer poured out His Spirit like water on believers on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-18) and He will again pour out His Spirit on Israel (Isaiah 44:3) and all flesh (Joel 2:28) at the end of the Tribulation.
Pisces
Two fish The apostles were fishers of men (Matthew 4:19, Mark 1:17) first to the Jews and later to the Gentiles. The Messiah will multiply the number of believers like the two fish that fed the five thousand (Matthew 14:15-21, Mark 6:36-44, Luke 9:12-17, John 6:7-13).
Aries
A ram or a lamb The Messiah is the Lamb who was slain to redeem mankind (John 1:29, 1 Peter 1:18-19, Revelation 5:6), pictured in the ram who took the place of Isaac when God told Abraham to sacrifice his son (Genesis 22:13).
Second advent of Christ
Taurus
A wild ox The Lord consumes His enemies like a wild ox (Numbers 24:8, Psalms 92:9-10).
Gemini
Twins – one mortal the other immortal The Messiah is dual in nature, having the fullness of God in a mortal human body (John 1:1 & 14, Colossians 2:9).
Cancer
A crab taking a firm hold with its claws The Messiah has a permanent hold on His sheep (John 10:26-29).
Leo
A lion standing on the serpent constellation Hydra the sea serpent The lion is the king of the beasts. The Messiah is the lion of the tribe of Judah (Revelation 5:5) and the King of kings (Revelation 19:16), who will crush the head of the serpent (Genesis 3:15).
Mathew 25:34-36 when this incident will take place? At His secret coming or at the end of Millennium during white Throne Judgement? (Rev.20:12-15). Yes they are the people who will be resurrected at 6th and 7th orders of resurrection?
Mathew 24:30-31 when this incident will take place? at His secret coming or at the middle of tribulation period? It will take place at the middle of the tribulation period.
If you can believe, believe otherwise leave it.
What has this to do with the article?
Please try to respond in the context of the article as far as possible.
Agreed that sometimes you start a new discussion irrelevant to article, however if the subject has been already discussed in some article, it is better to respond at that place. Eschatology is already discussed as separate article. Please respond there. Someone might discuss with you.
Brother CJ John,
I am willing to reply… I strongly encourage you to pore over the relevant sections and read up the dissertation and debates… am sure this will answer 75% of your doubts.
You are free to write a new comment to which I will most gladly reply.
If the eunuchs taken care of Esther could not become queen of the king, ministers who are boasting that we are shepherds and pastors will not go at His coming. We should understand and discern things spiritually.
Brother John,
Yes, we should indeed discern things. When TPM teaches it is these “consecrated ministers” that prepare the church, we should instantly discern that as wrong throw it away. We know from Ephesians 5 that it is the work of God, not mere men.
Bro John,
Seems you have finally burst. That’s good! At-least you have come forward rather than foaming within. Anyways I will try my level best to put forward my POV.
//He was a minister in TPM once, ………May the Lord forgive your aggressive character and bring out the cluches of devil and to the kingdom of His dear son.//
Admin has expressed his POV. Doesn’t matter whether he has left TPM organization or not (whatever be the reason). What matters is whether he is wrong or right. That we have to look from scripture rather than doctrine books. I hope you regard bible as the final authority, over doctrine of saints, me and you. Therefore let us judge the article in light of bible and not in light of our pre-conceived doctrines. Admin compares TPM ministry to parasite – “an organism” who is not a part of the plant but tries to replace the plant. His suggestion is that TPM ministry is subtly trying to replace Jesus, like the parasite tries to replace the plant. To prove his point he has given the song as an example. Song is designed to make believers sing praises to TPM saints instead of Jesus. According to him any song sung in the church, by the church members must praise the redeemer. Church gathers to praise and worship God and not to praise to any man. However if the church member are made to sing praise and worship to human beings instead of Jesus, then that is very dangerous, and hence rightly a parasitic nature. Let us leave all our doctrinal differences aside, whether TPM is right or wrong or whether this ex-minister is right or wrong, and let us first begin the discussion by answering this question first, “Why do you go to church? To sing praise and worship to TPM saints or to sing praise and worship to God alone” I hope you answer this question before God and men (We believe God is watching this and men too). As soon as I read this article it struck me that it appears true that TPM is making believers sing praise and worship to their name alongside Jesus. Therefore I expressed my POV that not only this song, but there are certain doctrines of TPM which I have been taught from childhood, which seems very much in line with the article. So I quoted my suggestions.
Now concerning your questions
// Can you prove Melchisedec is Holy Spirit?//
No I am not of the opinion that Melchizedek points to Holy Spirit. I believe Melchizedek points to Jesus. Read epistle of Hebrews completely rather than just one or two verse or one or two chapters. Entire epistle has been written to Jews, who seemed to be in doubt about Jesus. Therefore the context of entire epistle is to prove supremacy of Christ. In Chapter 1 & 2 the author of the epistle tries to make his readers understand, that Jesus is not an angel but someone greater than angel, and our savior son of God. In chapter 3 & 4, he explain Jesus is better than Moses and reminds them of OT Israelite, who entered not in the rest because they believed not in Jesus but doubted him. Then in Chapter 4 onward he explains supremacy of Jesus over OT priesthood and tabernacle system, by showing that it all pointed to Jesus. Keeping this context of writer of epistle of Hebrews in mind, when we arrive to Chapter 7, we realize that he says that Jesus is better that OT high priest because Jesus is although not from Aaron’s tribe, yet he is from order of someone higher than Aaron which is Melchizedek. Hence the suggestion that Melchizedek points to Jesus.
What TPM does here is neglects this entire context of epistle of Hebrews and pick Hebrews 7 as distinct from entire letter. It then superimposes its own view, by replacing Jesus with Holy Spirit and their clergy system. Isn’t this wrong then? Isn’t this parasitic nature? When the entire epistle clearly is written down by epistle to establish supremacy of Jesus Christ, then how right is it to establish something else, – namely that order of Melchizedek points to TPM saints instead of Jesus. This is pure blaspheme and I won’t accept TPM’s interpretation. Is this the so called truth of Melchizedek that TPM teaches which other churches do not? Shame on you, if after having so clearly explained, you still believe in the doctrine that teaches such nonsense!
So not only the song is designed to sing praises to TPM saints, but their doctrine itself is twisted to suite their need, to assign their own supremacy instead of Jesus.
Concerning your other questions we will discuss later. It is already a long post and I feel it would irritate if I continue it long.
//when we arrive to Chapter 7, we realize that he says that Jesus is better that OT high priest because Jesus is although not from Aaron’s tribe, yet he is from order of someone higher than Aaron which is Melchizedek. Hence the suggestion that Melchizedek points to Jesus.//
@ Bro Nath,
I completely agree with your comment but I beg to differ on one point.. Please see quotes above.
Jesus was from the tribe of Judah through his father Joseph… hence son of David and a royalty.
Jesus was from the tribe of Levi through his mother Mary… hence he is our Eternal high Priest…. Luke 1.5 states that John the Baptist was a levite, hence Jesus also had levitical connections.
I am also of the opinion that this was very symbolic as Jesus was the Word in flesh and his Jewish roots were only prophetical and not in anyway having racial overtones.
Jesus became an High Priest in the order of Melchisedec Priesthood, after removing the priesthood in the order of Aaron (Levi). So Jesus is not Melchisedec.
//Jesus is not Melchizedek//
Again I repeat.
It would be impasse to discuss who Melchizedek was!
What is clear from bible is whom does the order of Melchizedek points to.
Definitely not to Antichrist spirit of TPM.
Please see my comments above.
@ bro Denzel
Are you making the point that genealogy of Jesus through Mary makes Jesus levite and therefore Jesus is eternal priest? Are you therefore saying that Jesus is priest because of Mary being from genealogy of Levi? If that be so then you need to read Hebrews 7 again. May be you have missed certain verses.
What the writer of Hebrews is saying is that there were two orders of priesthood. One was of Melchizedek and other was through Abraham’s great grand son Levi. If we make Jesus of order of Levi then you cannot make him of order of Melchizedek and vise versa. Hence you must first decide to what order Jesus belongs, levitic order or Melchizedek order.
Since both Abraham and Levi gave tithe to Melchizedek (Heb 7:4, 9-10), therefore priesthood of Melchizedek is of higher order. Because lower one gives tithe to higher one (Heb 7:7). Therefore if we try to establish Jesus as being Levite (through Mary) then that would make priesthood of Jesus as Levitic and smaller compared to Melchizedek. That would be fatal mistake!
The writer of Hebrews has explicitly made clear that Jesus was of tribe of Judah and not from Moses/Aaron Levitic tribe (Heb 7:14) to avoid this mistaken deduction. I hope you will reread these verses which you have missed out accidentally.
Dear Nath,
1.) I am only stating the literal & historical fact that Jesus was indeed born in the womb of a woman who was a Levite. However, to assume that Jesus is eternal priest because of the ‘woman’ whose matrix held him, is not at all what I hold true to.
In the Old Testament, marriage was bound by tribal boundaries… except in few cases… More so… with levites…
2.) Why did Jesus take Water Baptism- in order to end his Nazrite vow, and thereby fulfill all righteousness- When we are baptized in the Waters, we are baptised not only in his death, but also in his fulfilment of laws which we could never fulfil with our effort.
3.) Jesus was called the son of David- at the same time, He was greater than David, here again is the symbolism that we should honour the nation of Israel and not completely eliminate it from Christian theology.
4.) Psalm 110 starts of with David crying out- ‘The Lord Jehovah said unto my Lord Jesus’ and in the middle of the chapter he says that the Father swore Jesus to be a priest after the order of Melchisedek.
5.) Who is this Melchisedek- the king of Jerusalem? How could there be a literal king who did nothing to help his colleagues and appeared only after the battle was upturned by Abraham? This king was actually a human being- and not a King with armies- He was an advocate of peace- and not of war; of righteousness and not clamor. Talmudic sources (though very fishy) claim that this person denoted Shem, the son of Noah. They claim that the priestly mind given by God to Noah, was passed onto the antediluvian world through Shem. In other words, Shem was the oldest man alive and he was considered to be having moral authority in the land. He was merely representing the coming ‘Prince of peace’ and ‘ruler of righteousness’ in his unofficial office.
Does that make Jesus subservient to Shem? No… Just as ‘son of David’ does not mean that Jesus is less than David, rather points that David was a symbol of the coming king Jesus.
Your question is based on the presupposition that my pov assumes that Jesus had to pay tithes to Melchisedek, through Levi. My answer is initially child Jesus was also under the law, but not after his Baptism and ministry began. Why was Jesus circumsised? Why were pigeons offered at the temple for his birth? Why was Child Jesus a nazrene? Why was the babe Jesus at the census booth, to show his genelogy as belonging to a family in Israel and also be liable for paying taxes?
The answer is Jesus came not to destroy the law but to fulfill the law by removing the shadow of the Old Covenant… Per the new covenant, Jesus is the true Melchisedek and Shem is a shadow; Jesus is the true David and the son of Jesse was a shadow of the office of the Lord Jesus.
Brother Nath, my pov assumes that the birth of Jesus to two different tribes has no fleshly leanings… its a prophetic symbolism of the office of the Lord Christ as being our eternal priest and everlasting ruler. I place less emphasis on who were Jesus’ maternal/ paternal forebears and place greater emphasis on the offices that he continues to perform- as king and priest.
I will be glad to clarify any understated assumption- In conclusion I only lay on record that Jesus did not gain any kingship from being a descendant of David, nor any levitical ministry from being the maternal descendant of Levi. (In fact, if there were to be a normal Levite guy of mixed tribal lineage, he can no longer assume any Levitical patronage)
To make a long story short- Real Characters like Melchisedek/ Levi/ Aaron/ David all point out to the office of the coming Priest & King. Our Lord Jesus has not borrowed their office or title.
This is my pov with you, bro Nath- we stand on the same page while defending against JOHN CJ, except that I chipped in to clarify that Jesus did belong to Levi from his mother’s side- The good news is Jesus has no fleshly relations or a shared DNA with either David or Aaron, as He was the Word made flesh.
//This is my pov with you, bro Nath- we stand on the same page while defending against JOHN CJ//
Agreed brother Denzel. We believe Jesus is our eternal high priest and we will not allow human beings the post of high priest if they claim new testament ministry of tpm celibates is of order of Melchizedek. When Jesus is the Author and finisher of our faith, why do you need specially consecrated saints to dupe you by saying we are interceding for you every morning at 4 am and 10pm every night. Christ is sufficient and all in all.
This 4 :00 AM thing is no where near to what they proclaim. Once I went to a centre faith home at 4:30 AM and I had to wake up the snoring pastor ..I did not ask him any question. But i think he understood it from my looks.
Instead of checking faith hoes at 4.30 am a child of God should sit in His presence to praise God and receive grace. Very sad. How can such people stand or the truth?
Haha…I did not check the faith home I was prompted by the Holy Spirit to test the false apostles (rev 2:2)
Brother Nath,
From your answers and debates, I assume that you are a youth or less than 45 years of age (so am I). However, the older generation will never be able to understand this and so it needs patience and prayers to help them see through.
Your points:
We believe Jesus is our eternal high priest and we will not allow human beings the post of high priest- Yes, 100% I agree
if they claim new testament ministry of tpm celibates is of order of Melchizedek. When I was a minister, I sincerely believed this as well and defended it… Its grace and not intellect that brought me to realise that the TPM ministry is a man-made mission and has no divine authority.
When Jesus is the Author and finisher of our faith, why do you need specially consecrated saints to dupe you by saying we are interceding for you every morning at 4 am and 10pm every night.- I doubt they are even able to understand fully the various problems in the believers’ families.. prayers are sincere to some extent… to a large extent it is monotonous and repetitive
Christ is sufficient and all in all- TPM also states the same thing, except that they will not allow you to experience that sufficiency.
144000 (Rev.7 & Ezk.9:3-4) – they are Jews who will be sealed during the 2nd half of tribulation period from among the Jews and there is no doubt and TPM teaches so.
14000 (Rev.14:1-5) – because the number is same, they cannot be Jews. When we say 12, it can be 12 apostles, 12 tribes, 12 sons of Jacob, and one should discern the context. The 144000 Jews cannot stand on the eternal Zion because New Jerusalem and the capital of Zion together (Most holy place of Moses – shadow) is meant for New Testament Bride (Jn.14:3 – a place), where Jesus became the corner stone after His ascension (Isa.28:16). The work of this Zion and New Jerusalem is started from the day of Pentecost and when the work is finished Jesus will come and gather His saints (Psa.102:16;147:3). Zion is in the midst of New Jerusalem (Rev.21:3,9) and there even the John the Baptist will not get a place (Mat.11:11). Then how can people of God deny that 144000 standing with the Lamb of God (Jesus) is not of a group from the Bride? Believers are a kind of first fruit (Jas.1:18) and servants of God are first fruit of the first fruit. “be as the he goats before the flocks” (Jer.50:8)
Jesus by His death on the cross the veil of the temple tore from up to bottom and opened a new and living way to Most Holy Place (Hebrew 10:19,20) and nobody went inside before Jesus. Now His Bride alone can go that highest place in Eternity. Abraham, John the Baptist, Moses, Samuel, David, Daniel all are “friend of God”. Friend of God and wife of God are different. When we can be seated with Christ as His Bride, they all will be seated as Guests of the Bridegroom (Rev.19:7,8).
Brother I am again requesting you to read the bible .
In John 15:15-17 jesus calls his disciples friend.so according to your TPM interpretation they will not be part of the bride.
Please throw away your TPM lens and read the bible for normal understanding
In the parable to the disciples, the Lord Jesus mentions about labourers in the vineyard- He says the first shall be last and the last first.
Do you know how much he paid the labourers- am not sure how much in Rupees, but he paid them equally- One penny per day.
This implies that all the Old Testament and New Testament Saints will be rewarded with the same reward.
As stated in my earlier comment, brother CJ, the ideology followed by TPM is a heresy of replacement. If you are still convinced, I wish you the best.
Dear John CJ
You said that Abraham, Moses, Samuel, David, Daniel & Baptist John are the friends of God. According to you friend is different from the bride. Do you know what Jesus told his new testament disciples in John 15:14? Read for youself and tell me whether those disciples being the friends of God would entitled to be the bride or not?
// servants of God are first fruit of the first fruit. “be as the he goats before the flocks” (Jer.50:8)//
@ my beloved bro CJ,
Do you know what this verse actually means?
It is a prophetic cry that the Jews who go into Babylonian captivity, should be as bold as the he goats when it comes to returning back to the promised land.
They should not wait for better conveniences, but separate themselves from the defilement of Babylon
Are you using this verse to prove that TPM workers are he-goats and the rest of the church are flocks of sheep?
With hope, they shall ask the way to Zion, with their faces thitherward. Does that mean they needed dedicates guides with GPS to show them a map? No.
I love my interactions with you, and I have a funny feeling that I know you actually…
From among all saints of all ages, saints of the New Testament is unique and highest. As on the day of Pentecost two loaves were prepared and brought by the baptizm of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost two groups are formed – servants of God and believers. All saints will be resurrected in one lot at His secret coming (1 Cor.15:21-22) and Daniel was told to go and stand in thy lot (Dan.12 last). There is an order of resurrection; best resurrection (first resurrection – Heb.11:35) and second resurrection (Rev.20:6). Blessed are those who take part in the 1st group of resurrection. In the 1st group there are 5 divisions – Christ, His Bride, Tribulation Martyrs, O.T. saints and General Martyrs. They all will be resurrected in different orders and will come to the Millennial reign on this earth (Dan.7:17,27).
Brother CJ
Do you even read the bible?
Rev 20:6 says it is the first resurrection but our TPM fans tell it is the second resurrection. How ignorant and blind can you get?
Bible says there are only 1 resurrections for the saved..1 Cor 15 says it plainly . But still you would not read the bible. Stop following these kind of fabricated stories spun by the TPM clergy. All resurrections of the saved will happen at his coming. There is no such separation as taught by TPM.
It is very hard to believe.
Where all these are happening?
Satan did the same thing to eve.. eve was decieved by Satan.. n finally thrown out of garden of eden.. same going on here on this page..
Exactly…and you are on the wrong side of the scriptures.
Satan also appealed to Eve emotionally.. Hence the fall..as do TPM die hard, while defending the church. Should we not like Jesus, take the scripture and keep Satan in his place as He did, during the temptation?
Please don’t appeal emotionally calling this as the best church..talk with scriptures. After all, Satan appealed to the senses and Eve also felt that he spoke the truth.
Genesis 3: 5,6
5. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
I agree with Jyotsana-. To all those who are determined to persecute the TPM church. Just know that God has not appinted you to be the judge of TPM church. Let God be judge of all things- you have so much hatred , bitterness and unforgiveness in your hearts against the church and you are nothing but losers- May God grant you rpentence for all the lies and gossipping you are doing.
Oh yeah ..
God appointed only the TPM frauds to judge rest of the world ..
thanks for enlighting our minds . ..
why dont you seek jesus and get a life ..?
First of all ask this person who wrote this, why did he leave TPM ministry?
might be because of his weakness {disobedience} or any other things which he is mentioned above, he is not able to realise that and repent, he is making others also to fall, please dont believe, sit and pray and ask GOD he will reveal you, dont be deceived.
@Febi
No sister you should not fall. I am praying for you. Bible says though righteous fall ten times he will stand again. Our saints also fall 100 times. Teju brother talk with girls many times during six days. But seventh day he stand and preach Holiness. Then again he fall regularly thinking sex. But again he stand on Sunday. This Sunday no chance to stand for any saint due to modi curfew. Their dress remain dirty for fifteen days. But next Sunday on 16 day they wash and wear white dress. All saints stand again back in tpm. So we believer should not fall. We stand in tpm after doing sin after sin. This is promise we get. Though righteous fall seven time he will stand again.
Ok..I feel the comments column will be quite not sufficient for that. We are specifically arranging to tell you why that particular brother left TPM. The article series starts tomorrow. C Ya.
@ admin
If you are sure about the people who did it, then expose their names like Singapore Joshua as of now. Why you hesitate to say the truth??
@BE BOLD TO SAY
What makes you think that I am hesitating to say any truth?
Now that you know of the Joshua incident, I want to know what have you done to get this problem corrected. Tell me that first.
Hi, I was raised as a TPM believer and we as a family left TPM church in 1998.
I would like to have more clarity on the biblical account of 144000 saints. I often get bombarded with questions and claims by my relatives of TPM church on this topic.
Secondly, every time I go the verses in the Book of revelation, it some how reflects with what the TPM clergy claims.
Can someone give a logical explanation to prove otherwise. I would like to have a biblical explanation.
We are running a series about that.. Please continue to read as we keep adding to it.
As of now, two articles have been put.
1. Questioning-the-magic-of-tpms-zion-1/
2. Questioning-the-magic-of-tpm-zion-2/
The book of revelation is a vision to John the apostle. Like on all visions images are always symbolic. For example Candlestick speaks of church, stars speak of messengers of God, sea of water represents people, beast represents world empires, dragon symbolises devil, woman represents church.
So in Revelation 14 where it says “these are virgin not defiled by woman” it is common sense that virgin in bible is chaste bride of Jesus. And the woman defiles is adulterous whore. So clearly it has nothing to with marriage, for in clear words Paul says marriage is honourable and bed undefiled.
As far as 144000 is considered it is symbolic number 12000 x 12000.
It is foolishness of part of tpm to take figures and images of vision images as literal..