From a TPM Believer to the TPM Chief Pastor

Dear Chief Pastor,

Praise be to God the Father, His Son and our Saviour Jesus Christ and our eternal Comforter, the Holy Spirit.

At the very outset, I want to make it clear that I believe in the Trinity, the Bible as the eternal Word of God revealed to all mankind, salvation through Jesus Christ alone and in the fruits and the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

The questions that I have listed below are only mine, which I expect that my church will help provide an answer based on the Word of God alone and not on personal experiences or emotionalism. Also, these are not to demean anyone’s ministry or spiritual state but instead I want that whoever is going through the below questions will himself refer the scriptures and examine his/her own life and come up with answers. Yes, we are always late for meetings and might not be spiritually great but still do have questions.

If you can’t answer, please be straightforward and say so. But please, don’t tell me that I am fallen from grace and back-slidden, demon-possessed, etc. I am just sincerely in search of answers for my Lord says in Isaiah chapter 1:18, “Come now, and let us reason together”. In fact, even the Bereans were always verifying the sermons of Paul to see if it met the scriptures (Acts 17:11).

So here I go:

Questions/Arguments:

  1. Where does the Bible say that “speaking in tongues” is the first outward sign of having received the Holy Spirit? Or that it is the evidence of baptism of the Holy Spirit? If it is really, why is it that such worker/believers hardly exhibit the fruits of the Spirit? Isn’t the fruit greater than the gift?
  2. Where does the Bible say that every person has to or will speak in tongues? Rather does it not say in 1 Corinthians 12:30 that “all will not speak in tongues”!
  3. Where does the Bible say that speaking in tongues is necessary for salvation or go to heaven? Rather, does notJesus say that He is the way to heaven (John 14:6) and no one else? And that he who believes in Him will have eternal life (John 11:25)? This very clearly has the mandate of John 14:15 – “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.”
  4. In 1 Corinthians chapter 14, Paul repeatedly emphasizes on prophesying rather than speaking in tongues! (1 Corinthians 14:1,3,4,5,19,24,39).
  5. Also, does not Paul command that if there is no interpretation for tongues, it should not be spoken in a church meeting? (1 Corinthians 14:28)
  6. Does not Paul, in 1 Corinthians 14:34, specifically state that women should not speak (in tongues or prophecy) in church? This can be done at home, in private with husband, but not in public. Or does it state about women preaching/teaching? Doesn’t seem to be so. Because he has stated so clearly in 1 Timothy 2:12, not in 1 Corinthians 14.
  7. We claim self-edification as the reason for speaking in tongues, are we not selfish in so doing? Does not Paul say in 1 Corinthians 12:14 – “So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up (or edifying) the church” (ESV)? Tongues can be spoken in private for sure.
  8. The disciples were waiting for the promise. No clapping, singing, asking, shouting, crying? Did not the Holy Spirit still come down as promised on the day of Pentecost itself? Why do we have tarrying meetings today when the Holy Spirit is already present on earth?
  9.  Except for the day of Pentecost, all other incidents of converts (Jews or Gentiles) receiving the Holy Spirit did not involve “tarrying”. It was instantaneous.
    •  Cornelius and his family received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues as soon as they heard Peter preach the Gospel.
    • Disciples of John (unbelieving Jews) received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues as soon as Paul laid his hands on them.
    • Samaritans (unbelievers) received the Holy Spirit (no evidence mentioned – can be tongues or prophecy) as soon as Peter & John laid their hands.
  10. Why then we have to tarry for the Holy Spirit today? Our Lord gave the great commission saying – “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations” in Matthew 28:19 and “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation” in Mark 16:15. Is this command only for the apostles or is it applicable for all believers?
    • If you say this was a command given in private to only the apostles, wasn’t the command to tarry (wait) for the promise (Holy Spirit) also given only to the apostles? Why do we tarry today?Also, most of the conversations that are written in the Gospel of John are also between Jesus and the 12 disciples, especially chapters 14 to 16. So are these applicable only to the apostles and not we believers?
    • Why are we not encouraging evangelism in our churches? It was not so in the early days of our ministry? Why do we hinder when believers preach? Are we insecure? Should we not have Paul’s attitude as mentioned in Philippians 1:18 – “What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice. Yes, and I will rejoice.”
  11. What is the ministry for our worker sisters other than singing and praying and cooking and washing? Is that their only calling? It was not so in  the early days of our mission when they too were active in evangelization! What about preaching the gospel to the nations?
  12. Every individual is endowed with a talent/gift. Jesus, in the parable of talents, asks us to make use of our talents, else we are answerable on the day of judgement (i.e. outer darkness) – Matthew 25:13-30. Why then don’t we encourage our youths to make use of their talents? Few boys do get a chance in playing musical instruments,but what about girls? And what about the rest who don’t get a chance in church?
  13.  If anyone displays his skills, we discourage him/her stating pride! What’s wrong if we do it for the glory of our Lord? Because we discourage in church, youths go to the world – schools, colleges, etc.
  14. 1 Peter 3:15 says “But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear”. Why then we ask our believers to avoid debates with unbelievers instead of empowering them with knowledge on the scriptures?
  15. Why are we discouraged from singing songs of other churches? But we do take songs from other churches and make our people sing in youth meetings and conventions. Isn’t that hypocrisy?
  16. Why can’t we have a separate area for kids where believers can take turns handling them? Instead of having to make them sit for the whole meeting in front and disturb the pastor by their talks and games?
  17.  Why do our workers take the term “saints” for themselves when according to new testament, every believer in Christ is a saint? (Philippians 1:1, Colossians 1:2)
  18. If Sunday school headmaster and the area leaders are “elders”, are we to call them instead of workers, to pray for the sick, according to James 5:14.
  19. We preach that believers should not wear ornaments quoting 1 Peter 3:3 & 1 Timothy 9, but these verses do not lay down any exclusive restriction! And when we enforce this “law”, people resort to wearing it outside church and removing within. Are we not forcing them to be hypocrites??

 

Likewise, I have few more questions regarding MY church for which I expect MY church to provide answers. I will be ardently praying to God that the leaders and senior believers will help me in my pursuit for truth.

God bless you.

Your brother in Christ,

A Believer in one of the Branch Faith Homes.

26 Comments on “From a TPM Believer to the TPM Chief Pastor”

  1. When some unknown identity is writing, and here is the response from the unknown identity chief pastor.

    Please come down and we can discuss over a table.




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    1. Is not the comment section enough for the table? What is so unknown about us than what you need to know? Are you intending of getting allianced by marriage that you need to know more about us? We have stated that we are TPM Folks and that is enough for you to start a discussion. Get started if you want. We will respond.




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    2. That’s an interesting response. Please share your contact details. I’ll be more than glad to pay you a personal visit, unless you’re sitting somewhere outside India.




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      1. I am interested to see if this Masquerader Chief Pastor will even have the guts to respond to you. Let us see how much hot air this guy has.




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    3. At least make it a little challenging. This post is filled with scripture verses. Why just deflect every argument to the identity of the admins? Why can’t you for once offer a sound scripture based argument as to why you disagree with the points made here? As Peter said “Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect” (1 Pet 3:15)




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      1. Richard – that is a brilliant verse.
        I’m sure I’ve read it but couldn’t recall. Thanks for that.

        I agree with you completely.

        I wonder if Peter ever had to answer a faceless and nameless entity.

        I am not going to repeat a call for the admin to identify himself/herself.
        It’s good enough for me that God Almighty knows who he/she is.

        One thing I am sure of: his/her faith is not solid. It’s a bit shaky.
        He/she fears for his/her life (perhaps because TPM pastors are “murderers”?)
        He/she wants to stay in TPM and change it, but is afraid of the “consequences”.

        Another thing I am sure of: I am enjoying debating with you, Richard.
        You seem to be a gentleman.

        The admin, however, is a person full of anger and hate.
        His words have a mocking tone.
        A man of God, when mocked, would not respond in the same way, but rather tone his words with “respect”.

        I must apologise at this point, as I too have been sarcastic and used mocking words in my earlier comments.
        For this I am ashamed of myself and ask pardon.

        Everybody participating in this forum is passionate about their position – some more than others.

        However, a civilised discussion can only be had when the tone and language are civilised.

        I have great disagreements with the doctrines and practices of other “churches” and even other religions, whether they are Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, Catholic, Protestant or even independent Pentecostal outfits.
        However, I would never treat one of their “clergy” with disrespect.

        They have their beliefs and I have mine.

        At the end of the day, they all try to do their job in the best way they know how and within the constraints of their individual lives.

        They all pray to God as well – and God hears all prayers.
        He may not answer all of them, but I am sure he hears all.




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        1. Vik, Thank you for your kind words. You seem to be only one in the pro-TPM camp here who comments with something worth responding to.

          There is a reason Peter didn’t have anonymous people asking questions. The early church didn’t have a problem with anyone questioning them. They weren’t castigated for asking questions or verifying what they heard using scripture. When confusion arose regarding the idea that Christians must be circumcised, the apostles reasoned together (Council of Jerusalem, Acts Ch. 15) and arrived at a conclusion. But the atmosphere in TPM is not so. I have been in this church since my birth, so have my parents and so were my grandparents. So when I say this, I most certainly am not caricaturing. TPM doesn’t entertain the idea of critical thinking. Do you think one can be like the Bereans of old in TPM?
          ——————————————–
          “Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, EXAMINING THE SCRIPTURES DAILY TO SEE if these things were so.” (Acts 17:11)
          ——————————————–
          Paul called them NOBLE because they examined everything they heard with scripture. Are we as TPM believers encouraged to examine the scripture to see what the pastors preach is true? No. Anyone who questions will get a reply along the lines of “you have a lot to grow spiritually and when you do, all your doubts will be cleared”. Anyone questioning more will be branded as someone sowing confusion. There is no room for disagreement in TPM. And the ones who usually bear the brunt of the criticism are usually the parents of these “black sheep of the family”. So to save them the pain, people choose to remain anonymous. That could be one of the reason people remain anonymous. A month ago, a believer was forced to go to the front of the assembly (on a Sunday no less) and “confess” and ask “forgiveness from the leaders and the congregation” because his son got married in a different denomination. These are the lengths the leaders go to.
          //However, a civilised discussion can only be had when the tone and language are civilised.///
          I agree. Which is why I’d rather focus on doctrinal disagreements than the personal lives of leaders. Even if half the TPM ministers were immoral, me telling that to a staunch TPM believer is only going to evoke an emotional response than a rational one.

          //I have great disagreements with the doctrines and practices of other “churches” and even other religions, whether they are Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, Catholic, Protestant or even independent Pentecostal outfits. However, I would never treat one of their “clergy” with disrespect.//
          While I agree in part with that last statement, we as TPM believers are conditioned to judge other Christians based on their appearance. This was certainly true for me and the ones I know. For most my life, when I saw someone wearing jewellery I instantly judged them of not having the same holiness as TPM. As a TPM believer one is forced to look at non-tpm Christians who have TV (many who have disciplined themselves to use it for the glory of God), take medicine, wear jewellery, doesn’t speak in tongues etc and think they ARE NOT going to be with Jesus when he comes to take his bride because the doctrine of TPM says so. Looking back, I would say that is the worst kind of disrespect one can have for a fellow Christian.




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    1. Haha…We are not staying inside TPM. Why would you want to stay in a place where unmarried males and females stay? I feel that is beyond my capacity. We do attend TPM for service, to see what more nonsense can they invent. We revealing ourselves will stop the TPM preachers to open their mouth before us. We need to see what new things can come out.

      Have you ever seen God? Why don’t you insist that before you see and know him before start praying…Aah Curiosity?
      Ok, Let’s agree on one thing. Get all Your TPM Publications, Magazines, and Convention notices have the names of the writers, speakers etc. and then we will be able to reveal ourselves. Fair Enough?




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  2. Good game play. Are you enemies’ ambassador?
    Anyways, my spirit urges to avoid all these thwarts though we hear you loud and clear.




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    1. Haha..So you even lack that little bit of hot air which TPM Ministers usually carry with them. Don’t worry brother, we will come all the way to Bangalore to sit and discuss with you by the table. Be bold and share your contact details.




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      1. LOL. You may have to invent a location in New Zealand and call it as Bangalore.

        It’s not at all hot air. It’s the heights of baseless talks. I think you should go to schools and check rule books to know better.




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        1. Haha..>As far as I know your IP Addresses map to Bangalore and none of the spoofings has a Bangalore IP and the description shows exactly your provider as well. Our servers are intelligent enough to track your location. OK Buddy?
          So Lying is another skill you have mastered in TPM…Good.




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        2. I can be anywhere in the globe and still point to where I want to show my IP. The same way, you are hiding behind the mask.




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  3. You seem to be so dumb in protocols. Anyways these are irrelevant to me.

    First, you and your team is extremist hypocritical. Even if I say 2+2=4, you will not believe.
    The just shall live by faith and your faith seems to be in your own self. Good going.




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    1. Haha…LOL…Dumb in Protocols 🙂
      Are we hypocritical?
      When you challenged us to talk to you beside a table we accepted it, but you as a rat fled the scene. Who is Hypocritical? Tell me friend? why are you having a problem in sharing your details while demanding us to divulge ours? Who is Hypocritical?

      Tell me which 2+2 are you referring? Have you even quoted ONE scripture to defend your TPM Specific Doctrines other than ranting like someone possessed?

      Try to reason out and let us see if you have any substance within you. Stop wasting your time and giving us a chance to expose the shallowness of TPM Believers like you.




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      1. Of course you and your whole bunch of team is hypocritical. Challenge it. Who is rat? Of course you. Like a rat sitting in church and betraying it. Masking and sitting in church and finding faults like pharisee.

        If you claim that you are not hypocritical and straight forward, walk in to your church leader and ask boldly instead of masking (blinding) and calling all as masked (blind).

        Be bold man and not coward like this. If you are afraid that the church will throw you, accept it. Because you are been so called deployed by God to open site and play hide and seek.

        If really God is with you, like he helped Ishmael amd her mother in wilderness when Abraham throwed them out, God will open a way for you and your can get your followers in.

        Arise and shine and don’t be dumb hiding and playing. It’s simple for you as I believe you are a Sunday spy worshipers, to meet your hated leader and comment. Indians have right/freedom to speech.




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        1. Yes Indians do have right and freedom of speech. First give it to people in your own Organization. Pastor Kanagaraj also thought so…But See what happened to his freedom of Speech 🙂




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  4. Who is he? Maybe be like Mahatma Gandhi who was so called killed by another Indian. Or he may be like Jesus killed by another Jews.
    All have freedom and it’s not like communist country where freedom of speech is not there. Get up and speak to bring change instead of hiding and getting voted.




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    1. Read some Jewish history as well.None of the OLD testament Prophets and also Jesus’s Apostles were left free. They were Threatened, Beaten and Killed because they would not like the truth to come out.
      Acts 5:20 His speech persuaded them. They called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.




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  5. Good day

    Since I do not have the skills required to set up a website, I thought I might I posit my own questions here.

    I DO NOT speak on behalf of TPM or its chief pastor or any pastor, elder, sister or believer or member of TPM.
    I am merely trying to find “reason” with as much “gentleness and respect” as I can muster.

    The following are my questions and comments:
    A. Are you saying that “speaking in tongues” is not necessary? If so, what then is the evidence of being baptized in the Holy Spirit?

    B. Are you proposing that women remain completely silent in church?

    C. Are you proposing that since the Holy Spirit is already present on earth, that we do not need to receive in ourselves?

    D. Is there something wrong with spending time in the presence of God, specifically praying and filling in the Spirit, that you wish you do away with tarry meetings? If I tarry at home in my privacy, is that wrong?

    E. Because the people in your examples in point 9 did not seem to specifically tarry, does that mean that nobody needs to tarry?

    F. Are you proposing that anybody and everybody who feels a desire to preach should go and preach, regardless of his experience, maturity, knowledge and intentions?

    G. Is it not true that in many of our congregations, depending on the circumstances, the sisters do minister? They go and meet families where women are distressed, counsel women within the congregation, run meetings in the absence of male workers, etc.

    Having said that, going back to point B above and adding it to your argument, should we do completely away with female workers in TPM?

    H. Playing a musical instrument is not a talent – it’s a skill. Talent is your innate ability to do something. It is your natural ability which is inborn. Skill is a learnt ability. It is acquired or developed after you put in a lot of time and hard work. No one is born with the ability to play a guitar or a piano. But, some people show an early sign of artistic talent from the time they learn to hold a pencil. Others may not have an artistic inclination, yet learn to play an instrument.

    I. You are suggesting that girls should be allowed to play instruments. (I don’t see the problem here, because I have seen it with my own eyes). Nevertheless, if you suggest women should be silent in church, then how can they use their skills? Or does the silence of women only mean that they should not open their mouths and speak?

    J. We do sing songs that were written by non-TPM people. I think the only condition is that it should fulfil what the apostle says in
    – Col 3:16 – “Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”
    – Eph 5:19 – “Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;”

    In both cases, the apostle says the songs should be spiritual, so should have been written by spiritual, saintly people. Too much to ask?

    K. Separate area for kids: The whole reason for having kids sit through the meetings is to instill a sense of discipline in them, to get them used to the idea of spending time in worship. Kids will be kids and will get up to mischief wherever they are. But over time, they will mature and learn to sit calmly and focus on the service itself. I take it you don’t have children.

    Since I am little behind on my scriptural knowledge, could you please point me to the verse(s) that reference such a suggestion to separate children from the congregation?

    L. Workers do not take on the title of “saints”. They refer to others as so. No pastor will say that he is a “saint”. It is also an aspiration for everyone (workers and believers) to live like a saint, like the apostles of yore whom we refer to as St Paul, St Peter, St James, etc in honour of their ministry and example. I hear people giving their testimony and a lot of them say thanks for the opportunity to give the testimony in the presence of “His saints”, even when there is only a pastor or elder present. This does not mean that they are only referring to the pastor or elder. All those that lead a holy and saintly life are saints. This includes believers as well. Don’t be obsessed with titles.

    M. If your pastor or elder is available and reachable, then why do you want to call the Sunday School headmaster?

    N. If a “believer” chooses to wear ornaments, that is their personal choice. They have to clear their conscience with God. If they choose to wear their ornaments in public and not in church, that is their choice. The church does not force anyone to be a hypocrite. People choose that for themselves. If the person cannot discard their jewelry, then that is their choice. I have seen plenty of people who steadfastly worship with TPM and wear some jewelry. This is a matter of personal choice. No one is forced to wear white. Elders and pastors encourage people to be modest in their appearance at all times.

    Happy New Year!




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  6. Happy New Year to you too Vik. Please find my response below:

    A. Yes, I am saying that based on Scriptures. 1 Cor 12:30 – All don’t have gifts of healing, do they? All don’t speak in different tongues, do they? All don’t interpret, do they? Evidence of being baptized in the Holy Spirit is not unknown tongues – it’s your change in life. When you exhibit the fruits of the Holy Spirit. And why do you need evidence? 1 Cor 14:22 – So then, tongues are a sign for those who don’t believe, not for those who believe. But prophecy is a sign for believers, not for those who don’t believe.

    B. You’re putting words in my mouth. The point is, if you follow one part of the scriptures, why leave out the other part? Stop cherry-picking.

    C. Again putting words. Jumping to conclusions. Nothing of that sort has been mentioned.

    D. What is the meaning of “tarrying”? It’s definitely not clapping & singing loudly and (pretend to be) speaking in tongues. Waiting on God has an altogether different meaning. The 1st century disciples had to tarry because the Holy Spirit advent had not yet happened. I don’t think simply going and sitting every Saturday, at the same place, singing the same songs over and over again, for months and years is making any difference in any one. TPM only promotes self-edification, not the church-edification.

    E. Tarry, of course yes, but for what? You decide. My Lord has very clearly told me in Luke 11:13 that, If you who are evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him?” You decide.

    F. Why not? What’s the harm in anyone preaching? God doesn’t look for experience or qualifications. Here’s what St. Paul says, What do I think about this? Just this: since Christ is proclaimed in every possible way, whether from dishonest or true motives, I’m glad and I’ll continue to be glad. You decide.

    G. Yes, but not many congregations, very few. But that is only a handful, maybe 5% or let’s say 10%. What about the rest? Stop justifying in vain.

    H. According to the Oxford dictionary: Talent means “Natural aptitude or skill”. Trying to justify in vain.

    I. Regarding women/girls, I’ve already responded. Please don’t cherry pick is the main point here.

    J. Really? Have you come across the recent announcements? No songs other than those written by “saints” of TPM.

    K. You made a false assumption. I have kids and that is what prompted me to make that suggestion. Till now, you haven’t mentioned a single scripture verse to support your claims, now all of a sudden you want to know where is it mentioned to keep the kids separate. Well, where does it say to keep them along? However, it’s just my suggestion – not a hard and fast point that should be implemented in the church. I give that to you.

    L. Workers refer to each other as saints, not the believers. Good joke though. Obsession for titles is not for believers, rather the so-called “saints”.

    M. We have workers in TPM who have the title “elder” after so-and-so years of ministry. It is one step before the title of “pastor”. But when I questioned a worker on Titus 1:6 Elders should be without fault. They should be faithful to their spouse, and have faithful children who can’t be accused of self-indulgence or rebelliousness. and then connected it with James 5:14, I got the response that the senior believers and the Sunday School headmasters are the elders that is being referred to in these passages. No do you understand?

    N. Believers have their personal choices. Absolutely. But TPM, very subtly, takes away this personal choice and implements their laws. Same with white dresses. It’s all a game of mind-control. Maybe, in the last 30 years, the church where you are attending, they’re not that strict. But in rest of the places, I have seen this being enforced, albeit indirectly.




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    1. Dear brother in Christ I am blessed with all the writings above. Well let me keep it short. My sister has fallen into their trap. And their family is about to fall apart. I have a lot of questions please help me with your email id..this is mine h.athoubameitei@gmail.com Thank you. God bless.




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  7. Question 6: Even if TPM says that it is said in regards to preaching / teaching (women to remain silent), they are in violation…as lots of time Women worker sisters preach the Sunday sermon, take Bible Studies & conduct Tarrying meetings whenever brothers go to take meetings in other cities (quite often happens). In fact I know 2 cities in the South Pacific where only women preach on all meetings.
    Let alone they are in violation of all the questions in this section hence they cannot answer!




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